Diabolist questions


Rules Questions


A certain player in my gaming group always tries to bend the rules in order to create the most overpowered PCs possible. We have finally convinced him to be a cleric, but he managed to find the Diabolist Prestige class.

He is in the process of making a level 5 cleric, 1 Diabolist because he can't seem to grasp the concept of playing a supporting character that does not deal a ton of damage. He is currently trying to get away with having a level 7 imp companion, because in the FAQ on the Diabolist page, it says that it increases the CL of his other class. The formula for imp level is Highest CL+ Diabolist level, so he thinks that the Diabolist level is counted twice.

I disagree and instead think that the Diabolist level increases separately and is only counted once. The only problem with this is that once he becomes a cleric 5, Diabolist 6 and higher, his Diabolist level will be accounted for twice, giving a level 12 imp at level 11. Surely this cannot be correct either.

How is the diabolist's imp level accounted for, and can he have a level 7 imp companion at 6th level?

Finally, if I am correct, and when your Diabolist level is your highest caster level, do you add it twice?

Dark Archive

The imp companion runs off your total level, not off any sort of combination despite the odd way it's worded. The imp will be equal to its master in level unless some unusual circumstances arise to change this fact. Your player is simply trying to interpret the rules in a way that, quite frankly, you'd need to be either intentionally obtuse or carrying around some impressive visual impairment to see.


Thanks for the feedback. My friend is quite stubborn, and will still probably try to benefit from the ambiguity of the rules. Is there any evidence in the rules that prove this?

Dark Archive

Regrettably the rules as written are rather poorly worded so no, there's no real evidence besides the obvious meaning. As GM, you more than have the authority to simply tell him that is how it'll be at your table; he can take it or leave it. Unfortunately, it does sound as if that might be your best way to approach it.

Even I have to admit that the current writing of the rules makes it appear as if they had intended for the imp to have more hit dice than character does levels, but both common sense and previously established standards tell us this is not so.

The Exchange

just what is written. you will just have to tell him he is going to have to settle on a level 6 imp.

Liberty's Edge

How did he meet the requirements at that level? If he used a scroll, where/how did he get it? He is a cleric, right? Unless one of the Archdevils or Asmodeus are his patron, I would disallow him to take diabolist if he is a cleric. For a wizard it's no problem, but clerics operate on faith and if you start dealing with devils while worshipping a non-devil related patron, you will find that your god no longer gives you spells since as a diablolist you have started to align your beliefs with them. Gods tend to be jealous when it comes to worship. Further, if the party is mostly good, having a diabolist that doesn't have a good reason to traffic with devils is going to create a lot of party tension. Take it from someone who has played a diabolist in such a situation.

Edited to better explain my position.


I am not the GM of this game, I am just concerned about having to put up with a combat based cleric with an overpowered imp.

As far as the scroll, the GM hesitantly allowed him to buy it.

Liberty's Edge

Malodeus wrote:

I am not the GM of this game, I am just concerned about having to put up with a combat based cleric with an overpowered imp.

As far as the scroll, the GM hesitantly allowed him to buy it.

The GM messed up with that call. At the minimum, he should have waited until he was 7th before allowing him to take the class.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aspasia de Malagant wrote:
Malodeus wrote:

I am not the GM of this game, I am just concerned about having to put up with a combat based cleric with an overpowered imp.

As far as the scroll, the GM hesitantly allowed him to buy it.

The GM messed up with that call. At the minimum, he should have waited until he was 7th before allowing him to take the class.

8th actually. You have to meet the requirements of a PrC the level before you take it. You have to be a 7th level caster before you can take an Imp with the Improved Familliar feat.

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:
Aspasia de Malagant wrote:
Malodeus wrote:

I am not the GM of this game, I am just concerned about having to put up with a combat based cleric with an overpowered imp.

As far as the scroll, the GM hesitantly allowed him to buy it.

The GM messed up with that call. At the minimum, he should have waited until he was 7th before allowing him to take the class.
8th actually. You have to meet the requirements of a PrC the level before you take it. You have to be a 7th level caster before you can take an Imp with the Improved Familliar feat.

He is getting the imp from Diabolist as a companion, not as a familiar. Also, the lowest level a cleric can cast the lesser planar ally spell without a scroll, is 7th. So, yes, it would seem 8th is the minimum level, assuming no scroll.

Who is this cleric's patron, by the way?


The entire character has not actually been created yet, my friend is still working on all of the details. I will be happy to show the GM this advice, so he can change his mind about the scroll.

As far as the patron, I am not sure, but I do know that the character is LN.

Dark Archive

Probably Asmodeus if they're going lawful neutral to gain entry into diabolist.

Liberty's Edge

I know this player. I plan to discuss this with him (not in Malodeus's group though). He is under tbe impression that it was designed with that intent that the imp should be a higher level.


I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that a familiar or animal companion cannot ever have more HD than its master


http://paizo.com/products/btpy8a6f/discuss&page=5?Pathfinder-Chronicles -Book-of-the-Damned-Volume-1-Princes-of-Darkness#205

the imp's level should just be the caster level.

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