I think a person who only approaches it from one or the other every single time either hasn't been playing very long, or would be pretty boring.
More often than not I begin with stats, as ultimately this isn't an exercise in pure fiction, it's a game. There have been times where an idea comes first though.
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I normally start with a build gimmick that interests me and then I think to myself, "What kind of person would have this skill set?"
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Sometimes I think of a cool concept, and I build around that. Sometimes I see an interesting ability, and I try to build around that. Then I find which stats works best.
I will be among the first to say that concept comes first. I hate games where you have to roll stats first, then build a character around it. I find it stifling.
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I find out what stat array the GM will allow and follow that up by selecting a class (usually after much thought) I can support with that. My next step is to crunch numbers/choose an optimal race, thereby coming to the most favorable stat array to suit that particular class's strong points; I do not cannibalize my own INT score. People that make their characters dain bread should have dry ice dropped in their pants. It is also common for me to plan a character from level 1 all the way to whatever our designated (if any) stopping point will be. Obviously this is subject to change depending on needs that may arise; future party composition, odd varieties of enemies, and other things of that nature. Personality and appearance are always chosen last; these are normally tailored to suit my chosen mechanics. The objective behind each character is to make absolutely certain it will be capable of performing adequately (see: at optimal levels) in multiple fields rather than tunnel visioning one; this is easy to accomplish in the Pathfinder system.
I create a very general concept, then stat the character up, then create a concrete concept.
The most common way I do it is thus:
Think of a class/race/ability or combo I think would be fun.
Think of some basic personality and background that fleshes out the mechanical constructs.
Build most of the character.
When I am doing traits and feat to start with, I really finish the personality and background, and make sure to mechanically support those elements.
That is about how 60% of characters I make are built.
Others are pure concept. I had one that was just "I want to play a werewolf (or something like it)" I still haven't built him yet, as I haven't seen mechanics I really like, but that is concept first.
Sometimes starting with mechanics lend to great characters. When 3.0 first came out, they said "you can play as monsters". So I did, I went extreme and made a half celestial, half gold dragon Paladin. Pure powergaming in design. The character had so much depth - she had the blood of angels and a LG being in her veins - she never made an alignment mistake, was never really tempted in her life (that did come later in her life). So a lot of roleplaying with her trying to understand that other people didn't have the same "firm foundation" she did about stuff.
I double team it in my head. I get an idea of class, that springs a concept most likely if I didn't start with one, in which case class is second, as I develop the character mechanically I also let the concept bubble up and often go back and forth tweaking mechanics to match concept and molding the concept so it's supported by the Pathfinder rules and Golarion setting. It's a very evolutionary approach. :)
I start with the concept or mechanics, usually with the stats I'm provided.
I like to find a cool mini, modify it to make it cooler and see if the rules can fit the looks.
I've actually built characters several ways, but when a friend and I were creating our characters for our current game we came up with Cascade's idea. Minis are usually the last part of my character creation, but then finding the right mini, with the right race and equipment is impossible.
One way I really like to do it is to work on a voice first and then build the character out of that. I love a character with a unique accent, and they are always popular around the table. Of course it helps that my job requires a lot of driving so I get a lot of practice and my girlfriend having a speech therapy degree has been pretty helpful.
Most minis don't have backpacks but standard equipment includes a handy haversack and I believe all kits come with a backpack.
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The most common way I do it is thus:
Think of a class/race/ability or combo I think would be fun.
Think of some basic personality and background that fleshes out the mechanical constructs.
Build most of the character.
When I am doing traits and feat to start with, I really finish the personality and background, and make sure to mechanically support those elements.
This. Though I sometimes do migrate away from the original race/class/ability (like that time I said "I want to play a paladin, and I want him to be jaded, and be good at reading people, so he needs high sense motive, and I want him to have a fear of the dark... wait, this guy is an inquisitor.")
My boyfriend and I both play Pathfinder.
My boyfriend builds from stats up, as in their stats come first, then their concept.Now, I'm the opposite, I'm concept first, and I build my stats around my concept.
So, how do you guys build characters?
It varies for me. Sometimes the concept comes first, sometimes the mechanics, more often than not it's a thing that occurs more or less in tandem, but no matter what part I start with the end result is a character (and I'd like to think a well developed character with hopes, dreams, motivations, and people and places they know and love).
Sometimes I see something mechanically that looks really fun and I want to try that. Sometimes I get an idea of a persona I'd like to play around with and then find a mechanical thing to go along with it (one of my great love of the psionics rules comes from this build method because given how fluffable psionics and stuff is, it's very easy to adapt their mechanics to the idea I had originally).
Sometimes it's a shared process. It's rare that I immediately start with a fully developed character from the get-go (I don't tend to copy existing characters from other mediums for example, though I know people who model their PCs after characters from books, movies, or video games), so often it begins with a concept (either narrative or mechanical) and then grows, merging with mechanics and concepts provoking new questions or ideas, which ultimately lead up into the final result.
My boyfriend and I both play Pathfinder.
My boyfriend builds from stats up, as in their stats come first, then their concept.Now, I'm the opposite, I'm concept first, and I build my stats around my concept.
So, how do you guys build characters?
I listened to an interview with Jason Buhlman and he does the same thing as you. James Jacobs, apparently, works more like your boyfriend (which is funny because Jason works more on the rules and James works more on the stories). When I'm preparing a new character I listen to a lot of music and find a song or two that speaks to me.
Examples (character's I've recently played/am playing)
Seven Nation Army (White Stripes) and How It Ends (Devotchka) -> Nobu Matsuhisa, human Samurai.
Kiss With a Fist (Florence + the Machine) and I Fought the Law (The Clash) -> Alexander Basilius, human Brawler.
I almost played a Summoner after I heard The Monster (Eminem featuring Rihanna).
Find a mechanical concept I want to build around
Build the crunch around it
Use the crunch as leaping points for fluff.
(( Ok so I'm probably X race and Y class with Z trait and strong scores in A, B, and C; what's a character like that going to be/act like? ))
I create characters whenever something strikes my fancy. Sometimes I'll watch a movie or show and think, "Wonder if that can be built in Pathfinder" and try to do so. Sometimes I'll come across an interesting feat and think, "A whole character can be built around this!" and try to do so.
Many times, though, when I build a character, I have some raw nugget of an idea of what I want the character to be. Like the Wizard I played in Kingmaker until I dropped out was built upon the idea of a 'magical Leonardo Davinci' in that he's a magical inventor. It was partly inspired by all the custom magical items I'd created and kept track of in a journal.
With my Wizard, I had an idea of a character I wanted to play, and picked the feats, stats and skills and traits to make it work. In this way, the rules fit the concept.
The Monk I'm playing in Legacy of Fire came about when scrolling through d20pfsrd.com while watching the first Conan movie. I happened to be reading Monk Archetypes when Subotai mentioned praying to the four winds and saw the Monk of the Four Winds archetype and read it. I really liked the idea of an unarmed guy charging up elemental energy in a fist or kick and unleashing it on someone. So I belt a Monk using the Monk of the Four Winds archetype, just so happened to sort of fit into Legacy of Fire and the 'Templars of the Five Winds' which he now aspires to join. *Bonus* One of the player's mentioned their go (Gorum) was 'strong as a mountain' and I had to respond with, "My god is stronger; he is the everlasting sky and your god lives underneath him."
With my Monk, I had a rules idea that I then built a concept around. I let his backstory and personality be decided by the mechanics of the character. His backstory ended up being built around the campaign trait Finding Haleen, and his personality ended being built around the same trait (that of a younger brother seeking out to rescue and defend his older sister). Events in the campaign also dictated how his personality has been shaped.
Chalk me up in the "It changes a lot" column.
Sometimes I have a cool concept, and then I'm like "So how do I make this work in-game?"
Other times I'm like "I want a guy who can do X" and then figure up a character to go with it.
Sometimes I come up with a mechanical concept, and then a character concept for a guy that could use those skills...then realize the mechanical concept is kinda bad/really hard to make work/won't come together until like level 15 and then I start fiddling with random stuff until I find something that works.
I ask the other players of the group what they are gonna play. Then I choose a class that we need. Like if we need a healer I'll be a cleric or an oracle for example. If we instead have all our bases covered, I then choose a class that I have not played before.
After the class is decided, I then stat it out with the character sheet. Lastly I make a name and do the backstory.
"How can I make this as Rogue-like as possible without being a Rogue?"
It's inspired about 16 characters. One of whom, ended up a Rogue.
"How can I make this as Rogue-like as possible without being a Rogue?"
It's inspired about 16 characters. One of whom ended up a Rogue.
That poor thing. =p
I generally have a concept in mind, then roll stats. However, if the stats just don't measure up to the concept, the concept can (and has) changed. The strangest of those was trying for a Samuari, and ending up with a Wizard.
Last minute panic, usually.
I was going to switch out a character after this last winter break. I was on vacation and basically made a new character each day. ~14 characters later I just decided to stick with the same character. I had this feeling every day of the last week.
My boyfriend and I both play Pathfinder.
My boyfriend builds from stats up, as in their stats come first, then their concept.Now, I'm the opposite, I'm concept first, and I build my stats around my concept.
So, how do you guys build characters?
I do both/neither.
I usually keep a mental list of things I want to play (mechanically) as well as cool character concepts/names. Eventually they sort of pair up.
Example: For a story I wrote (never completed) about 5 years back, I created a character named Ariadne who was a timid teenage girl, blessed (or cursed) with the ability to heal the wounds of others. She was sold into slavery by her father, and came to the service of the Autarch as one of his many concubines. Despite living in the sun-blasted desert, she had pale skin and a bald head, which was indicative of the Grey Wasting, a terrible affliction that somehow her healing capabilities keeps at bay.
This season for PFS I promised my group I'd play the healer. I decided on Oracle. Then I remembered Ariadne, and made her a Life Oracle with Wasting curse. Then I looked into Oracles and made her Dual-Cursed and took Fey Foundling for good measure. She's pretty amazing...
The way I do it is start with the mechanics, and make a bunch (usually 10+) characters, and give them each a short backstory, personality, and so on. Then I give it a couple days and see which one I feel most excited about playing, both mechanics and RP wise, and from there, I flesh out the backstory more, and save the other characters for potential future games.
Normally I build what the party needs. I have files of character builds from 1-20 level and 1-10 mythic tiers.
I generally start class first and try to build the class as intended. Later iterations gain changes.
That poor thing. =p"How can I make this as Rogue-like as possible without being a Rogue?"
It's inspired about 16 characters. One of whom ended up a Rogue.
It was a Stealth beyond Stealth Goblin so for the most part he could solo entire Modules.
For me it differs very much. Sometimes I have a concept and think about how to make it happen. Sometimes I find a feat combination and ponder which kind of PC it could fit to. Sometimes I realize my current group needs a certain kind of role and I start from there.
Often times I start at one point and while building I shift things around because something doesn't feel quite right and in the end I have a pc that has little in common with the first idea.
I decided I wanted to build a pc that has a similar flair to himself like a crane courtier from legend of the five rings. That is a samurai diplomat.
After thinking about it for a while and half building it some way or the other I ended up with a dex/cha focused archaeologist-geisha 1 / brawler 3 for some static bonuses to hit and damage.
For a long time I wanted to play a pc with the moonlight stalker feat but never found a good way to make it happen. Then, when we did our ACG playtest with level 5 pcs I noticed that the arcane bloodrager could have concealment whenever he raged and by that would qualify for moonlight stalker. All that was left was to generate my stats, choose my feats (mostly taken up by prerequisites) and buy equip and I was good to go.
Edit: One problem I run into at times is that I only build a pc for the level he is supposed to start at and then, some levelups later I realize that I have no clue where to take him or that all the obvious routes look boring.
Sometimes I manage to find a way, sometimes I loose interest in the guy after that point and feel the desire grow to try something else.
I like to start with a basic mecanic i want to use, start building it, and then ping pong the mechanics and the person off of each other as i put it together.
I compile fantasy artwork. When I want to make a character, I usually comb through my files for inspiration. Using the picture as a guideline, I put together the character's class, feats, and skills, before finally coming up with some sort of background. The most important thing for me is that the character retains my interest. A good image helps keep me focused (else I lose interest and begin working on a new concept).
Often, I see a mini or picture somewhere and then build around it.
I choose stats, feats and such to fit the image my imagination provided for it.
Often the image helps me find the personality of the character as well, or at least, find the starting point.
I normal try to let in game events shape my characters, both in mechanics and flavor, it seems to make them "live" more strongly.
I'm also inspired by the crunch. Sometimes I see a combo or chain of feats and make a character that could use them, then put a face to them to breath life into them.
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I most often start with a name. Lester Bonewhite, Ikaros Ilfamion or Duras Rashid Ibin Jabar Ibin Rashid Al Arahdin. Or somthing like that and then i work from there. And since a name is easy to find i often have more concepts than i need. Last time we were to start playing i showed up with 15 different characters. I like to have a simpel background with a strong reason for adventuering. I also mainly decide the motivations of the character and then let the personallity grow from that.
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Most often these days I decide on the figure first, get it painted before (sometimes after, then work on the build using the figure to assist my choices. The latest case, however, I decided I wanted to play an mad alchemist, then decided I was playing a dwarf. I have no idea how I came to that decision BTW because I had previously worked out an elven alchemist, but I managed to track down an acceptable figurine, paint it, and use it for one or two sessions before the game ended.
Long story short, I like working on builds, but without a concept beforehand my roleplaying usually comes out flat.
Concept first, which could start with a personality, backstory, theme, visual, or race/class combo. Then wrestle with the mechanics to try and make it work.
For character creation, I do the same thing that Mikaze said.
It's much easier to make fluff conform to crunch than vice versa. This could lead to ridiculous situations in 3.5, but it's a problem Pathfinder has mostly avoided.
That's why I start with mechanics ("what do I want to play?") then write the background and personality accordingly.
I ususally have a personality, style, and background in mind when I start -- sometimes even a "voice." Then I try to see if I can get mechanics that match that, without totally hamstinging the character. Generally, in PF, that means I end up having to make compromises in both directions, which is unfortunate but unavoidable, given the limitations of the system (especially with regards to non-functional multiclassing and "Timmy card" "options").
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I ususally have a personality, style, and background in mind when I start -- sometimes even a "voice." Then I try to see if I can get mechanics that match that, without totally hamstinging the character. Generally, in PF, that means I end up having to make compromises in both directions, which is unfortunate but unavoidable, given the limitations of the system (especially with regards to non-functional multiclassing and "Timmy card" "options").
Interesting. I usually dont have a voice or personality until I have started playing the character. Even alignment is just a place holder untilt he character has faced a few moral choices with me at the helm. Not sure why but that just feels natural to me.
Interesting. I usually dont have a voice or personality until I have started playing the character.
That was how I did it in 1e -- every character started out with a race, class, and nickname, and didn't even get a real name unless he survived to 4th level or so. (I can still remember beaming with pride when "El Supremo" finally revealed that his real name was Balvor, and being miffed when the DM told me that "Thug" had gotten to the point where he needed an actual name. Then again, PC mortality seems to have been a lot higher back then.)
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Interesting. I usually dont have a voice or personality until I have started playing the character.That was how I did it in 1e -- every character started out with a race, class, and nickname, and didn't even get a real name unless he survived to 4th level or so. (I can still remember beaming with pride when "El Supremo" finally revealed that his real name was Balvor, and being miffed when the DM told me that "Thug" had gotten to the point where he needed an actual name. Then again, PC mortality seems to have been a lot higher back then.)
I think a bit of that lives on in my group today. A PC isnt assured a place in the campaign they have to earn it. They do not come alive until we have have had a chance to breath life into them. Probably the reason we are not big on backstories either.
1. Start with concept. Background, personality, abilities, style. No game-mechanics are included here; just purely narrative/flavor oriented. Unless I'm very familiar with the game world, things tend to be a little vague here, saying he's from 'a large city' or 'the capital' rather than naming a city. Every so often, I'll want to do an homage to a previous character, or one from fiction and adapt it to a fantasy setting.
2. Look over available materials to see what is available that helps me realize that concept. What combination of classes, feats, traits, skills, etc will get me as close as possible, within the class system constraints, to what I want to play. At this point, I'm operating purely mechanically; the flavor text is ignored.
2a. If I can't find anything that works at 1st level, look ahead to see if I can advance into the idea via multiclassing or a higher-level class ability. If not, accept that the character concept isn't doable in PF and go back to the drawing board. This happens a lot with my homages.
2b. Determine if I'm actually going to want to deal with the mechanics generated. Alignment mechanics and summoning, for instance, are two things I dislike. Being forced to deal with them makes it unlikely I'll go to step 3.
3. Start creation at whatever level the character will enter play at. Do the point buy, get the gear, etc.
4. Enjoy.
I do sometimes just build a character to defend a point on the forums...
I do sometimes just build a character to defend a point on the forums...
*Raises his cup*
I hear ye matey.