Grizzled Gryphon's page

I have continued to look, but it doesn't seem to be written anywhere. I am just going to go with my idea in the OP.

The Shaman class gains the spirit magic class feature, which allows them to spontaneously cast a limited number of spells from the spirit they have chosen. You also gain the spells on your wandering spirits list when you gain the wandering spirit class feature.

My question is, are these spells considered spells known for item use and crafting? Specifically for potions, on the crafting side, as the ruling seems to be that you can't just up the crafting DC by 5 to compensate for missing prerequisites when making potions, scrolls, wands, or staves.

And for the item use side, can a shaman use a wand of enlarge person only when that spell is provided by a spirit?

Does the spells gained from your permanent spirit differ from the ones gained by the daily chosen wandering spirit?

I have found nothing indicating any which way this would go, but I would think it goes like this:

All the spells on the shamans spell list are, of course, spells known. The spells from your chosen spirit are also spells known. The spells from your wandering spirit are only known so long as that spirit is chosen.

Hmmm... Magus whipping boy... That looks pretty good! Anyone have a fighter build that beats the Magus Kensai Bladebound?

I was looking up the 'Steal' maneuver for someone, and couldn't help but notice that one can use a whip to make steal attempts. Now, I really want to make up a whip focused character, with trip and steal. I was about to embark on a search through the various books I have to see what all there is that would add to this build idea.

But then, I thought, this idea has surely been done before! And probably done by people far better at it then me, to boot!

And so, here I am, asking if anyone has a most excellent whip wielder build? I was going to go fighter, just due to the sheer number of feats required to do this. At least, it appears to be quite a few feats.

I tried googling "Whip Build", but all I got were trip builds that use a whip. Certainly good info to go on for a whip master, but not precisely what I was going for.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be most welcome!

Excellent, just as I thought. Do you know where it states that in the books?

I have found the FAQ stating that rays can be affected by Improved Critical and the like, as rays are considered weapons. Where does it state that rays are considered weapons? Or, more precisely, are other touch spells considered weapons, and where is it stated? Thanks for the help, folks!

I submit that the Skald makes for the best summoner in the game. Especially the Totemic Summoner. Basically, you get morale bonuses, enhancement bonuses, fast healing, and DR for everyone affected by your inspire rage, not to mention all the affects of rage powers you take. AND you can throw on the Augment Summons feat for even more bonuses, although depending on the totem you select, they may not stack with the totem bonus. But, you could give them a +6 morale to str and con, and +6 enhancement to str, dex, and con, fast healing 6, DR, and rage power bonuses...

Can other classes get these kind of bonuses? I haven't even looked into the feat that allows you to add a Summoner 1 point evolution to summoned creatures.

I very well could be wrong, but this seems to be the best combo of summoning in Pathfinder.

First off, I have to admit that I mostly really like the artwork in the Pathfinder books. Mostly.

There are, however, a few that are a problem for me. LOL, nothing bad, just they are wrong. In the Monster Codex, the Orc Ranger is holding her knocked bow wrong. In the ACG, so is the Hunter and the individual in the Skald Archetype sections. I gather the artist for each hasn't scene a real archer in action. Again, no big deal, but a bit funny...

Also, there are a large number of pictures of individuals holding their blades, as if ready for action, and the scabbard is on the same side as the hand holding the weapon...

Anyone else notice any minor 'oops' like these? I don't know why, but I just love finding these...

I am pretty sure that Spiritual Hammer has the "It strikes as a spell, not as a weapon, so for example, it can damage creatures that have damage reduction." statement so that you know to NOT apply DR to its damage, as it isn't a weapon, even though the spell says "Hammer" in the name. At least that's what I read in a post where someone was asking why it said that, and a game designer posted this as the reason. Similar to various spells that affect objects, especially weapons, having a statement clarifying that even though the name has "dagger" or "blade" in the name, it can affect other types of weapon.

For some reason, I recall that force damage was especially useful against objects. Was that a 3.5 thing?

Do force effects ignore hardness? I can't seem to find it either way in the books...

Yeah, thanks to that trait, anyone can be the trap finder and remover. One trait and two skill points is all you need. Now no one 'has' to be the fail rogue anymore!! Of course, the Investigator does a role the Rogue used to fill (skill monkey) way better, and the Slayer does the other (DPS, which the rogue did really poorly) way better. I doubt there will be many rogues in games anymore. The ninja is also better than the rogue with the Ki pool and ninja tricks which are way better than the rogue's talents. Paizo has pretty much did the rogue in as a player character.

True. I can't wait to see what the other five books in that adventure path will hold!

Hardly any rpg I have seen is very historically accurate as far as combat goes, but its pretty easy to have the weapons look like they really did, which is what I was complaining about. Not sure where you got the "realistic combat" bit from my post.

So I was looking through the UE at the various pole arms, and I noticed that the illustrations for the bill and the halberd are mirror copies of each other. So, I was wondering, if I have weapon focus halberd, but I hold it with the blade pointed the other way, do I need weapon focus bill to retain the bonus?

Seriously, I find it a bit lame that they just reversed the image for two items like that. How much effort would it take to find a separate picture for the bill? I mean, to anyone that is interested in historical weapons, that is most certainly not a bill. Very much a halberd, though.

Alright, I should have been a bit more clear. Basically, like I stated in the OP, most of the baddies are human(oid). So, tripping, disarming, and grapple are all good, but I begin to think grapple is the best. Mostly because it would make it far easier to capture them. Tying someone up isn't even a roll anymore, its just a DC of 20+ your CMB that they have to make a CMB check to beat. So, I just need to focus on disarming them, and then grappling and pinning them, then tying them up. So, I want a nice, high CMB, disarm, and grapple. Trip would be nice to immobilize them.

So, with that in mind, what is the verdict? Again, the dirty trick maneuver is one that sounds like fun to have just in case. Wouldn't mind a good sunder as well. Nothing quite as cool as kicking the door in!

RumpinRufus, I can't help but notice you have Whip Mastery at level 3 and level 5. Perhaps the level 5 was supposed to be improved, and the level 7 is Greater? LOL, the image of a guy (your using a human, I think?) in full plate with a whip is kinda funny. Is a shield viable, or would I be wielding two whips? Looks awesome, though.

Bad Bird, that is a nice idea, there. Battle Oracle... going to check that out right now!

Petty Alchemy, I will look at the Dirty Trick again, but I think that would be one of the nice "extra" maneuvers I mentioned in the OP. Along with sunder, bull rush, and all the rest.

So, I have been looking over some of the classes with the idea of making a maneuver master, specifically with Disarm, Trip, and Grapple. Of course, any other maneuver's that get added in would be icing on the cake.

The vast majority of baddies in the game have been humanoids, and I don't see anything to suggest that will change any time soon, so these maneuver's seem to be the best to focus on.

So, my quandary is, like most people on these forums, is what class to take? Fighter is a good choice for the sheer number of feats, and might be the better choice for damage out-put in the end.

But the Barbarian might just be the one to edge out the fighter. He would have to be more focused on the types he can get "improved", but his damage, at least while raging, would be higher. Not to mention, his CMB benefits from rage.

For similar reason's, the Bloodrager is a good choice, with the added benefit of some spells. They certainly have some good spells to help out with maneuver's, so this may be a better option.

But then there is the Monk, which in my mind, is well known as a grappler and tripper. Tripping, disarming, or grappling a stunned opponent is vastly easier then otherwise, too. So, not a bad option.

Which brings us to the Brawler, with the maneuver training. This class looks like it might be the best of them all for what I am looking for, here.

So what have your experiences been with this sort of character? What class worked best in your opinion? Is there certain weapons that helped in this? I was looking through the UEG, and there are a bunch of weapons that would give bonuses to several of these. have any of them served you well with this type of character? I eagerly await your ideas!!

Why is a whip thematic for a captain? Sounds more like a slaver to me...

I agree. Cutlass and pistols sound more "correct" for a captian type.

I would also deep six the Swashbuckler idea. Bard/Gunslinger would work better, especially with the Mysterious Stranger archetype for the CHA symmetry.

"Two for flinching."

Oh, I like the way you think, sir! This has happened, only the second one wasn't a heal...

Grizzled Gryphon wrote:

I am currently running a hunter, but I have only been in one session so far, so I haven't seen what his combat is going to be like, yet.

Give her time. I just ran a Hunter through Dragon's Demand and I had a great time with it. The free teamwork feats give the Hunter a unique edge with her animal companion, don't discount them.

Oh, I know those teamwork feats are going to pay off. My wolf and 2 other players are melee types, (monk and rogue), so there will be plenty of flanking to set off those feats. And they take a nice chunk out of the negatives to my attack from the various feats and whatnot I have going on.

Well, as this is the NPC healbot for the party, I think I will just fudge a wee bit, and let him punch with the free touch that comes with casting a cure spell.

Cool idea!

Interesting points. I just made an Arcanist, and now I think I am going to have to look at the PRC's, again...

Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:

Generally multiclassing is awful

I disagree with this whole heartedly. Many of the most broken builds I've seen abuse multiclassing. Not always, but often.

In Pathfinder? If your talking about 3.5, then you are completely correct, in every way that you can be correct!

But I don't think its quite the same in Pathfinder. I could be wrong, but it seems like multi-classing is a flavor thing, now. Just like the prestige classes.

A 70 year old player? That is awesome!

Something about that. Is a rogue better than an investigator/slayer even multiclass character?

Generally multiclassing is awful and that is why hybrid classes exist, so in theory the Rogues as an actual 1-20 class should be better than investigator/slayer. But is it?

Interesting question. I will have to sit down and make a 20th level rogue and a 10th level investigator/ 10th level slayer, and see what that tells me.

I have an idea for a sacred fist warpriest. The guy is nuts. Bonkers. He loses it whenever any of the party gets hurt. But does he get mad at whatever caused the damage? No no no... Its the party members fault for allowing this to happen! What is wrong with you, you idiot?!?! STOP TRYING TO DIE!!! And thus, he would deliver his cure spells via non-lethal unarmed strikes.

My question is, how would that work? Would the cure spell cure the non-lethal damage as well as the regular damage? After all, the punch would be delivering the spell, so the damage would have to come first.

Yeah, it appears that the Rogue is the generalist of the three (Investigator, Slayer, and Rogue), but I feel its too general. There are niches for the Rogue to fill, and either of the other two seem to do the job better.

So, is there a job that the Rogue does better than either of the others?

Well, if I were you, I would take the Crossblooded Archetype for Starsoul and Draconic. This is by no means a "uber badass power combo", either. In fact, it may very well be the opposite of that in terms of being "OP".

But, for the flavor... well, you are the Star Dragon, of course.

(And while it isn't optimal, its not exactly a bad choice, either)

I think a party composed of a Bloodrager, Warpriest, Investigator, and Arcanist would make a pretty good party. If you have another player, a Skald would work well. Hey, look! The entire party are casters! LOL!

I would certianly be interested in playing that game!

So, I have acquired the ACG, and I have to say, I like the classes there in. I know a lot of folks here don't much care for them, but to each their own.

The Investigator is quite interesting. Now, I don't want to get into a debate about the class per se, what I am wondering is, what reasons, mechanically speaking, would someone play a Rogue (look!! I didn't say Rouge!) instead of the Investigator?

For me, the reason I play a Rogue is for the skills. Stealth and Acrobatics are important, but the real important ones for me were always Disable Device and Perception. The Investigator gets half his level as a bonus to those two. And he can make any Knowledge check untrained (did they toss in a bit of Bard, as well?). Then the talents they can select are pretty nice. If your the "face" of the party, Expanded Inspiration is fairly good choice, for one. And Extracts. I may be wrong, but it would seem to me that Mutagen would be mighty nice to have regardless of build.

I don't know, but this seems like a better Rogue than the Rogue.

What are your thoughts on this? Yea? Nay? Or is it one of those 'only in this situation' deals?

I am currently running a hunter, but I have only been in one session so far, so I haven't seen what his combat is going to be like, yet.

But, his Wolf animal companion seems strong, and the two teamwork feats I took, which automatically apply to the wolf, will aid his archery nicely, I think. Enfilading Fire and Coordinated Shot work rather well for an archer. +2 to hit if your teamwork buddy is flanking, and +2 to hit if they are flanking and threatening. So, with the total -4 I have from Deadly Aim and Rapid Shot, they even out.

I admit, I worry about higher levels when the 3/4 BAB will start to show more and more, but right now, the character looks pretty solid.

i have to admit, though, when I made the character, I was almost done, and then thought "Oh! I have to pick spells". They were kind of an after thought, as so very few are useful to archery. The one notable exception is Gravity Bow. Had a tough time picking the other spells I know, though.

My final impression is I have a Ranger with a lower BAB and no combat style in exchange for casting at first level, adding the Druids spell list, and getting my animal companion at first level. You also lose favored enemy and terrain, but I don't miss them.

One thing concerning the animal companion, though, is it states you can take tricks for your animal companion from the Skirmisher Ranger archetype, but they don't seem to be for the animal, they seem like tricks for the Ranger. Not sure how they work.

I have heard a lot of moaning about the Arcanist, but I like the idea. This will be the class I use for any Arcane casters I play in the future.

Bloodrager and Brawler look very cool as well, and the idea of the Skald is pretty cool, too. Especially if there is another character with any rage ability (Barbarian, Bloodrager, or another Skald), as they can use the Raging Song of the Skald instead of their own rage ability, and then still have their full rage duration after the Skald has used his up. And they use their own bonuses while the Rage Song is active, AND they aren't fatigued afterwards!

So, all in all, I like them. The Slayer and Swashbucklers aren't really my cup of tea, and I haven't really done a divine caster, so the Shaman and Warpriest so I can't say if they are good, but I think I would go Warpriest if I ever did run a divine caster.

I am going to have to get this, methinks. I like the Summoner, Druid, and Hunter because of the companions, and this seems like an interesting take on the "pet" idea.

How does one get this download? Or is it a hard copy book? Sounds pretty cool, but I have only what I have read here to go on.

EDIT: Never mind, just scrolled up, and realize that the link from Facebook I followed doesn't start you at the top, but half way down. Weird...

Thanks for the ideas, guys!

Mutagenic Brawler may just be what I was looking for.

I have seen the Brawler, and I don't know, maybe that would do it. I was just wondering if there was an archetype, or maybe some Ki power, that I haven't seen that would do the raging monk idea. Perhaps there is a way for the Brawler to rage? Or something like it?

EDIT: I have seen the Playtest Brawler, as I haven't received my copy of the ACG, yet.

Basically, take a Monk, and add Rage. Rage powers are cool, and what not, but thats basically what I am thinking, here. A Monk that can rage.

Is there a way to make, essentially, a monk with rage? I know the Martial Artist Archetype doesn't have an alignment restriction, so multi-classsing Barbarian and martial Artist would do it... I just don't want to multi-class. Is there an archetype out there for either the Monk or the Barbarian that does this? It seems to me that Flurry of blows and rage are meant to go together. Guy rains blows upon opponent in a fit of rage. I don't know, but that just sounds right.

I once had a healer tell my fighter that he was going to charge him for every healing he did for him. So, my fighter told the healer he was going to charge him for every hit bad guys did to the fighter instead of the healer. Suddenly, the healing was free...

I don't see the alignment restriction any more or less restrictive than the Shikigami's. You have to be LN to have one as a familiar.

Ah, thanks. Off to deduce the meaning of an "effect" spell, though...

Again, looking through the Archetypes, and I have come to the conclusion that this is a better Archetype for a Ranged Fighter than the Archer Archetype. What do you think?

If a caster uses a spell, such as charm or dominate, on a target, and the target saves, does the caster know that it didn't work? Can the target, assuming it knows what spell was just cast on it, make, say, a bluff check, or something similar (perhaps a Perform: Acting check?) to trick the caster into thinking the spell actually worked?

I was reading through this Archetype, and noticed something.

Deadshot allows you to add half your dex bonus to the damage. Greater Deadshot allows you to add your dex bonus to the damage. I don't see anything that says Greater Deadshot cancels out Deadshot, so that means 1.5 your Dex to the damage. Is there anything that says otherwise? I haven't seen anything online about this one way or the other.

Note: I am aware of the "readied action" part of all this, and realize it isn't all that good an ability, so please leave the arguments concerning this aspect and the fact that using a Longbow is superior (or not, as your opinion may or may not be) to another thread. Thanks.

Ah, so just like a fighter. I was wondering if the Monk feats were also available like they are to a monk?

Anyone know where I can find the Brawler's bonus feats? They were left out of the PDF I have with that class.

I know that nothing says you can't use magic items, but just the idea of being superstitious would imply the character would be loathe to use magic items. I am looking at this from the role-playing aspect, not the RAW aspect. Nothing in the superstitious power says you can't just have beneficial spells cast on you before you rage, either.

BUT, thematically, it feels wrong to let magic be cast on him, or to knowingly use a magic item. I am looking for viable reasons that he would not mind having good magic cast on him or use magic items.

This strange man came to the village. He was dressed weird, and talked weird, and our women were bigger and stronger than him. He was rather sad, so we didn't kill him. Poor, pathetic excuse for a man, really.

But then he started teaching us things. Amazing things we had never thought of! So after the hundreth amazing thing he taught us, the Chief asked, 'how do you know all these things?' And the man pulled out this strange object, and said 'Books.'

So, the chief tells me to go and learn from this man all that you can. Get all the knowledge from the books that you can, that we may also know all these amazing things! So, I went to the man, and started trying to glean the knowledge from the book. But it wouldn't tell me anything. The man laughed, and told me I needed to learn to read. And so I did. After that, I found that there were MILLIONS of books, some useful, some not, but they were all far to the south.

And so, the Chief sent my Barbarian, along with the strange man, down to the south to gather books and knowledge, and bring it back to the people.

There is the gist of the background of my book loving Barbarian. I took the Berserker of the Society trait, and one that makes Linguistics a class skill. I have made him an Invulnerable Rager Archetype with the Superstitious Rage Power (along with the Human Racial Bonus, of course).

Here is the prob I have. I am very interested in the role-play aspect of the game, so for me, there is a real issue of my character using magic items, let alone letting anyone cast magic on me! However, this will REALLY nerf my character, so how do I go about using the magic items, and allow friendly magic, while still using Superstitious? Just seems the two don't go together.

I could say that I don't like "bad medicine", and the resistance I have just happens to block "good medicine", too. Except if I was in that situation, and my "stop bad medicine" ability stopped my allies magic, then I would be mighty pissed at that supposed ally, and want a real good explanation of why he tried to cast bad medicine on me???

I suppose I could say he is rational enough to know that this is just a case of "all or nothing", and it works on all magic, but I just don't see most barbarians be all that rational. Rational just doesn't seem to fit the barbarian feel, to me.

Any ideas?

I read a guide for the Alchemist, and it mentioned getting a ranger spell as a formulae known. How do you do this? Even if you multi-classed with Ranger, it still couldn't be a formulae, it would be a Ranger spell.

Well. Thanks everyone for the ideas!