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47 tables of credit (mostly low tier), 3 character deaths (almost-max-damage hit on a level 1 from a 2-hander, paladin who failed to inform healer how badly he was hurt, con damaged to 0).
Lots of knockdowns (negative health) but healing or lucky stabilization rolls ftw.
Honestly, neg health is as good as a kill for game tension. Maybe better: how will the party save the downed character?
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My wife just GMed her first ever Pathfinder game, which happened to also be her first time GMing in PFS. Two (of the four) characters died. APL 1.25. The problems started in the first round of one particular combat when our 2nd-level fighter was hit with a critical by someone wielding a scythe! She, of course, did not survive that.
My character survived (as did our wizard), but only through shear luck in a couple of important instances, and only with the help of a wand of cure light wounds and a wand of infernal healing. After the scenario, we added it up: for the whole session, my 1st-level character suffered an aggregate 138 hp of damage!
The last two combats together must have lasted a total of about 50 rounds.
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Lormyr, I agree with you, but I think character death or two kind of helps to validate a GM as genuinely fair. Especially if the player of the dead character still had fun and wants to continue playing with you as a GM.
One of my players' characters will die.... one day!
While I can understand the direction you are going with that logic, I view GM fairness by rules consistency and unbiased decisions instead. Over the years, I've been at games in various organized play where a situation was ruled one way for one player/PC, and the literally identical situation much more harshly for another player/PC.
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I know. It was somewhat of a joke. Still, at times, with all of the optimized characters in my area, I wonder if there's more I can do (without changing tactics or anything else not PFS legal) to make the scenarios more challenging/fun for them.
Well optimized PCs can be difficult to present with any sort of challenge in a lot of PFS scenarios (particularly early season scenarios). If your area contains a lot of such players/PCs, you might consider simply asking them if the are having good fun or desire more challenge. If they want a greater challenge, it wouldn't be ill placed to liberally interpret this line from the 5.0 guide:
"However, if the actions of the PCs before or during an encounter invalidate the provided tactics or starting locations, the GM should
consider whether changing these would provide a more enjoyable play experience."
If you bads are having a difficult time using their printed tactic after they open with it, switch it over to something more ruthless like focus firing PCs. The problem with this approach can sometimes be them even living through the round, though.
If you want to be really liberal in your interpretation, you could fixate on their actions before the encounter invalidating tactics (such as if I cannot hit you, then clearly that PC I was meant to target has invalidated my tactic), and change the baddies tactics immediately.
I only recommend being that liberal with it if your players specifically request you to go at them ruthlessly though.
Overall, the best advice I can give is ask them what they want out of your table, and try to facilitate as best you can with the tools in your box.
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Man, this thread is making me feel slightly inadequate as a GM. I'm approaching 40 tables run, and I haven't killed a PC yet.Don't sweat that. The best measure of a good GM isn't how many PC's die at your table - it's how much fun your players have at your table.Lormyr, I agree with you, but I think character death or two kind of helps to validate a GM as genuinely fair. Especially if the player of the dead character still had fun and wants to continue playing with you as a GM.
One of my players' characters will die.... one day!
I can confirm that PC death can validate you as fair... especially when you run your second table and your first kill is a friend's brand new paladin whose life your witch saved just last table!
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I just added a TGK last weekend. No - that is not a typo.
I'm building up a new group at a local game store. We didn't have a game store anywhere close for 15 years - and 3 or 4 years ago the closest (not counting the remaining Games Workshop) 50km closed down as well.
So we had our fourth session. 3 returning players with 1-2 games and 1 new player. The very first time I didn't have to shepard some players I know to the store to ensure a game will happen. So slowly we are growing.
But 3 pre-gens (rogue, ninja, cleric) and one self-made character (wizard) with 2 games under his belt isn't the strongest party. One player loved We Be Goblins that he had played a week before - so I thought Frostfur Captives would be a good scenario to take.
The ninja flirted with death from the start. Climbing a rope outside a tower when there are stairs inside only works as long as nobody notices you.
2 goblins felt it was a good idea to follow - yelling and shouting ... they didn't get high enough to fall (to the death) and the ninja luckily had reached the top - so I allowed a reflex to grap the top and a difficult acrobatics to get into the tower.
He still went down but luckily his comrade finished off the last goblin while he lay bleeding at his feet - and he stabilized.
Winning initiative also isn't beneficial if you charge into some enemies and suddenly you get surrounded by them.
He left the group to go for one of the wolf - only for a second one to attack him and trip him. So he was on the ground fighting 2 wolfs while the rest of the group had a much easier task with the single remaining one.
The cleric came to his rescue ...
Lets say it that way - I let the dice fall as they did and he was lucky enough to get away with it. I think we had 3 or more 50:50 chances that could have spelled his end and either he managed to roll high enough or I failed rolling high - especially on the damage dice.
But the luck was about the run out in the last encounter.
The group successfully made the sense motive and did not hand over the goblins. A fight was initiated with a head-butt from the cleric - only for the fast ninja to rush away to go where he became prime target of all three other ulfen.
The wizard tried to help - but got 1 shot with a charge - once in a while my damage dice was hot.
So I offered the group the option to fight on (and in my view have a certain TPK) or to surrender in exchange for a TGK.
The group did chose the TGK.
At that time 2 goblins were down. One had already been stabilized using rebuke death, but it was clear that all 4 would die if no longer protected by the group.
It hit them hard - especially the We be Goblin player (cleric) but the moral dilemma was resolved by rather have the goblins die then the group (and likely the goblins as well).
The group clearly left with the knowledge that death is real and an option - and that this time they got away - albeit others didn't.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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A level 1 Kyra died last night in the The Quest for Perfection, part 1.
Nothing but take a dirt nap.
The sorcerer's burning hands could have been better placed, but the Kyra was being played for no credit, and didn't mind being roasted for another 3d4 after the fact.
Add another notch to that Yeti's kill count.
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I respect you a great deal and understand your point, but I sense the emotions others have towards their characters I can feel. The emotions people have slowly built up their character over time is suddenly crushed in a few dice can be very emotional. I try to tap into my players emotions during the game to make the game more entertaining(if a player is made at a monster I will have it taunt them as a simple example). I can feel the anguish when one of their characters die at my table. I just think it a little distant to not feel it when you see someone with that blank stare.
The bow monk at your table I had the pleasure of playing at when he died I felt horrible I did not do more to save his character. I went over the tactics in my head and have a plethora of thigns I could have done better to keep him from dying. I will remember that moment for the rest of my gaming expereince as I watched him blankly stare at the table when the dice pounded his character. Although that is part of the game and makes me love it more, but still memorable.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I'll be proud of deaths where the players enjoyed the story, including the one whose PC became an object. The ever-popular Osiriani Risen Guard that needed to die for $concept, perhaps?
I still remember the guy (in another game system) who needed to die for concept and to unlock some of his powers. The rest of their party spent most of their time keeping the poor guy alive because they didn't understand that if he died, he would get better.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Four dead beneath the Keep of Bone last night. Two made it out alive, tails firmly between their legs.
Dead
Paladin/Gunslinger
Summoner
Barbarian
Monk (Pregen)
Alive
Cleric
Sorcerer
They finished just inside 5 hours, clearing most of the rooms but fleeing in terror from the final one. I suspect this thread to get some more posts, now that Bonekeep 1 is legal outside of con play for 4/5 stars and VOs.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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I'm glad I'll never get to run Bonekeep. Everyone would make it out alive.
Don't believe me? I recently ran The Waking Rune and The Dalsine Affair. No deaths. Next up is City of Golden Death. Expecting no deaths there as well.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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Yeah, I TPK'd a party on Bonekeep last night, halfway through.See you said you needed to be a harder DM. I only killed one person that decided to leave the party and go into a room by themselves while the rest of the party was fighting a combined fight.
I said that some months ago, before my kill count quadrupled. Mostly, the change was that I started running more higher level stuff for my in-store group.
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I said that some months ago, before my kill count quadrupled. Mostly, the change was that I started running more higher level stuff for my in-store group.Yeah, I TPK'd a party on Bonekeep last night, halfway through.See you said you needed to be a harder DM. I only killed one person that decided to leave the party and go into a room by themselves while the rest of the party was fighting a combined fight.
I was just teasing you. Well you got atleast one special run from your bonekeep =)
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So in 2 games in one day, I killed two PC's and one eidolon.
73 tables total
9 PC deaths (average of 1 death every 8 tables)
4 eidolon deaths (1 death every 18-19 tables)
1 animal companion death
And still three games left to run this weekend. I don't forecast any more deaths. Now I must get to bed! Early day tomorrow...
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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I was just teasing you. Well you got atleast one special run from your bonekeep =)I said that some months ago, before my kill count quadrupled. Mostly, the change was that I started running more higher level stuff for my in-store group.Yeah, I TPK'd a party on Bonekeep last night, halfway through.See you said you needed to be a harder DM. I only killed one person that decided to leave the party and go into a room by themselves while the rest of the party was fighting a combined fight.
One special run? If I'm going to have to run this, I'm going to be out for blood. I mean, with the disclaimer and me actively telling people that they'll likely die, I sort of lose any motivation I would normally have to be gentler with it.
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Two more games run today. Two more kills.
75 games total (halfway to 5-star qualification!)
11 PC kills (1 death for every 6.8 tables)
These two? Father/son combo critting with an incorporeal BBEG. 18d6, Fort for half. One failed for 64. The other made it but 30-something was still too much. At least they didn't raise as undead, themselves!
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** spoiler omitted **I'm glad I'll never get to run Bonekeep. Everyone would make it out alive.
Don't believe me? I recently ran The Waking Rune and The Dalsine Affair. No deaths. Next up is City of Golden Death. Expecting no deaths there as well.
Reeeeaaally want to open that spoiler. But won't.
Eke will take his eventual death in stride!
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Two characters fell last night in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament.
Bad Tactics: Life Oracle who cast a buff spell within 10' of a large [redacted], drawing its attention and a full attack. Squish.
Bad Luck: Wizard who failed 2 FORT saves and was in the second stage of Suffocation (unconscious, 0 hp) and got caught by Chain Lightning and taken to -47 HP. The Life Oracle's breath of life was 3 HP short of bringing him back.
Bad Tactics, Bad Luck, Still Lived...Barely: One close call where the high AC Monk moved next to a baddie to make a single attack. The hasted baddie full attacked, crit twice, and dropped the monk to -2.
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Wrong lever cronk.
Why do they even HAVE that lever?
Weapon in the Rift claimed a 9th level barbarian this past weekend after no one healed her enough to survive the 70-odd damage a round she was taking.
A 3rd level alchemist was paralyzed and CdGed in Among the Gods, but the GM retconned it as a favor since that was the players highest level PC. Monsters lacking listed tactics are great for adjustable difficulty.
Bonekeep nearly claimed a party but teamwork saved the day. The 6th level summoner was put to neg Con and then saved with a Channeled Revival. The TWO 7th level clerics were put negative, then saved when the druid rolled high enough on his CLW to bring the first up and fire off chained channels to bring the party back from the brink. My 7th level paladin was saved from ranged touch attack doom thanks to his Missile Shield deflecting around 50% of the damage he would have taken.
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Unless you have access to Heal (unlikely in a 5-9) there are very few healers who will be able to keep up with that sort of punishment. Maybe a Paladin/Life Oracle mixing Lay on Hands, Swift Channel and a Cure while using Life link. Otherwise discretion is the better part of valour.
Sadly, I was on a different team or there would have been no casualties. As it was, I understand a simple cure light wounds spell would have left her unconscious yet alive.
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Weapon in the Rift claimed a 9th level barbarian this past weekend after no one healed her enough to survive the 70-odd damage a round she was taking.Unless you have access to Heal (unlikely in a 5-9) there are very few healers who will be able to keep up with that sort of punishment. Maybe a Paladin/Life Oracle mixing Lay on Hands, Swift Channel and a Cure while using Life link. Otherwise discretion is the better part of valour.
Armor Class is the better part of valor!!!
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From what I've seen, one or more characters die in every module that ends in "-keep."Definitely not true around here - both groups I've run through the Accursed Halls had a cakewalk.
Accursed Halls? Seriously? They were level 2s, mostly, I suppose? Because with a party of 4 level 1s, I just see TPK written all over it. We had 6 pretty powerful characters and we still had one character death occur in Accursed Halls before anyone but a diviner or sohei could possibly have acted
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Unless you have access to Heal (unlikely in a 5-9) there are very few healers who will be able to keep up with that sort of punishment. Maybe a Paladin/Life Oracle mixing Lay on Hands, Swift Channel and a Cure while using Life link. Otherwise discretion is the better part of valour.Sadly, I was on a different team or there would have been no casualties. As it was, I understand a simple cure light wounds spell would have left her unconscious yet alive.
Let me be absolutely clear about what I said here. Healing the barbarian would not have kept her in the fight. However, it would have spelled the difference between death and unconsciousness. Then they could have healed her up after the battle and had their main warrior in the rest of the scenario. As it was, they faced the final battles without their highest level character in the high tier.
On my table, my Life Oracle novaing with Quick Channel is what earned us our secondary success condition. Without that, we would have likely failed there while managing to achieve the primary mission.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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There's none relevant unless they can see through walls or have some weird senses that detect incorporeal things in the wall.
Interestingly, such abilities do exist. A (paranoid) menhir savant druid could've changed everything. ;)
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@TOZ--
But you can see it come OUT of the wall.
Which definitely is not sufficient to allow you to act on the surprise round. That would be like saying that if you failed your Perception check against an invisible foe but then made the check after they attacked and broke invisibility, you get to act on that surprise round.
Now, if the shadow did something stupid other than 5-foot-step out of the wall and attack with a free surprise round (such as first moving out of the wall to where it could be spotted), then completely agreed!
Again, as a player and a recipient, though not the direct target, of the beatdown (and honestly the GM was pretty horrified when she saw her own Nat 20 too, it was done completely legitimately.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you're surprised.
Hmm... So when does combat start?
If it starts while the critter's still in the wall, then there's an auto-surprise round and he can 5ft step and WHAM!
If instead it doesn't start until someone's next action would be hostile, then he has to come out of the wall first (so that his next action would be an attack), and then combat starts and we determine whether there's a surprise round.
I wonder how we decide "when a combat starts"? Hrm.
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PCs are bumbling along loudly. NPC hears them and casts a buff spell on the surprise round in a loud clear voice, which the PCs hear. Then that was the surprise round and we go into regular initiative, even if both sides then cast more buffs on that next round and nobody takes a hostile action yet.