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I would imagine mine would be somewhere between 1 kill every 2- games.
Over 50% of my games ran are high tier, and the clumps of 4+ deaths stack up on the kill rate.
For instance I can think of a couple scenarios were 4+ people died.
I still have not had a TPK.
I can also think of many groups that survived due to running out of time. There also have been a couple games where the players lived by running away.
If a GM ran King of Storvial Stairs 100 times I would expect his kill rate to average over 1 kill game.
I am running a scenario this Saturday a 7-11, I am thinking I may kill all seven players not once but twice. It is pretty hard, the players of course may make it out alive. This is a very specific scenario.
Also when prepping scenario's I think players will die all the time, it is usually not the case. They usually die in very surprising ways.
From all the deaths here is what I can predict.
Low Con will kill.
Splitting the party will kill.
Rushing into combat first before your friends will kill.
Fighting a Runelord will kill.
Drowning will kill.
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I would imagine mine would be somewhere between 1 kill every 2- games.
Over 50% of my games ran are high tier, and the clumps of 4+ deaths stack up on the kill rate.
For instance I can think of a couple scenarios were 4+ people died.
I still have not had a TPK.
I can also think of many groups that survived due to running out of time. There also have been a couple games where the players lived by running away.
If a GM ran King of Storvial Stairs 100 times I would expect his kill rate to average over 1 kill game.
I am running a scenario this Saturday a 7-11, I am thinking I may kill all seven players not once but twice. It is pretty hard, the players of course may make it out alive. This is a very specific scenario.
Also when prepping scenario's I think players will die all the time, it is usually not the case. They usually die in very surprising ways.
From all the deaths here is what I can predict.
Low Con will kill.
Splitting the party will kill.
Rushing into combat first before your friends will kill.
Fighting a Runelord will kill.
Drowning will kill.
Also, I think it depends on the players somewhat as much as the GM. I GMed for some of your regulars at Gencon with no deaths, and they were a hugely fun bunch to have as players. One in particular I can see how some of the RP playstyle that goes into in-character decisionmaking that has led to the deaths of so many poor dogs could also lead to some PC deaths, but probably also fun and hilarious moments for the whole table.
On the other hand, I ran Storval Stairs for a bunch of players who I knew were very pro. I nearly killed the pregen paladin (coup de grace, DC 40 or something, failed save, rerolled to Nat 20), but no kills in the end. The cleric of Urgathoa spent lots of money making minions, which was a big part of their success. The player was so happy with how much the undead helped, and everyone was happy by the tactical advantage.
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I've not yet killed a PC, but I died twice in convention play just this weekend, and I've learned that death is just a condition to be cleared. Once was my own fault, thinking an ally would go before big-bad and I didn't need to retreat. The other was in Bonekep 1 and that was a combination of bad luck and the decision by an ally to attack something next to me that we already knew would explode when it died while I was unconscious. I had a blast at both tables, and I'm glad I had someone in the party with first aid gloves both times.
Edit: I also had enough prestige banked for a raise dead if it were necessary.
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So I last night I ended up running Storming the Diamond Gate which many of you know how much of a death trap that one can be. This time I offered them if they wanted kiddie gloves on or off (thanks Bunny!) and they requested off. When it started go south for them, I asked them if they wanted it on or off. They insisted for me to bring it. So I did. They finally were able to kill the big bad with only one person standing who was out of spells almost and everyone else stabilized/down. There was one fatality. They absolutely loved it. I think thats what I might do, is offer at different points if they want kiddie gloves on or off; if I know how the scenario might go. Thank you for all the help everyone. Oh and my email lit up with them recounting and talking about the scenario. So it went overall good. Granted that brings me to 22 deaths for 37 table credits; but they had a blast. Which is what matters I guess at the end of the day.
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@ Mark I have seen GM's ignore tactics in Storvial stairs to decimate players. I have seen players decide to self regulate (stop using Slumber Hex) to get 3 team mates killed. When I ran it I may of had a TPK, I think I had 2 killed and 2 down before a flying alchemist ended the fight.
@ Ben, I have seen multiple deaths on this one, I had a group at Gencon that would of TPK'd or ran if it wasn't for time. It was fun for me to GM. A PC was down from stat drain from poison, still attacked by a flying summoned creature, on a bridge that was burning.
When I played that I think I had 2 allies die.
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My first PC for pathfinder society was a Rogue, I would think at least half his games he almost died. Before level 6 it was a really rough existence almost every game. Saves sucked, Con drain poisons. Rushing in first, as well as never having a reliable cleric.
At level 11, he only has a +1 weapon and dual wields. I learned not to play up, especially when I was the highest level. I always chose to play down.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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So I last night I ended up running Storming the Diamond Gate which many of you know how much of a death trap that one can be. This time I offered them if they wanted kiddie gloves on or off (thanks Bunny!) and they requested off. When it started go south for them, I asked them if they wanted it on or off. They insisted for me to bring it. So I did. They finally were able to kill the big bad with only one person standing who was out of spells almost and everyone else stabilized/down. There was one fatality. They absolutely loved it. I think thats what I might do, is offer at different points if they want kiddie gloves on or off; if I know how the scenario might go. Thank you for all the help everyone. Oh and my email lit up with them recounting and talking about the scenario. So it went overall good. Granted that brings me to 22 deaths for 37 table credits; but they had a blast. Which is what matters I guess at the end of the day.
Glad to hear it went well!
I can attest to the excitement a player gets when they beat a difficult encounter by the skin of their teeth--the feeling is amazing.
I've Gm'd over a half dozen TPK's.
Let me see just since pathfinder became a game with the Beta.
We played second darkness path, one death.
Crimson throne TPK At final boss fight.
carrion crown TPK at schloss caromar.
serpents skull TPK fighting the Gorilla King
Reign of winter TPK in the howlings
King maker, one PC survived the end battle, eventually hocked all but the best goodies, raised everyone and they lived happily ever after, after installing a puppet government (characters were mostly evil alignments or chaotic neutral)
Im currently putting together a mashup custom campaign, we will see how that goes.
OVer the years and years, there have been other TPKs…usually involving a dragon… OH wait that was one I was a player in… "It's only a white dragon, how hard can it be!"
Our favorite two APs so far have been SS and CC
oh…Honorable mention for the numerous and multiple TPKs in White Plume mountain and Temple of Elemental Evil.
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I've Gm'd over a half dozen TPK's.
Let me see just since pathfinder became a game with the Beta.
We played second darkness path, one death.
Crimson throne TPK At final boss fight.
carrion crown TPK at schloss caromar.
serpents skull TPK fighting the Gorilla King
Reign of winter TPK in the howlings
King maker, one PC survived the end battle, eventually hocked all but the best goodies, raised everyone and they lived happily ever after, after installing a puppet government (characters were mostly evil alignments or chaotic neutral)Im currently putting together a mashup custom campaign, we will see how that goes.
OVer the years and years, there have been other TPKs…usually involving a dragon… OH wait that was one I was a player in… "It's only a white dragon, how hard can it be!"
Our favorite two APs so far have been SS and CC
oh…Honorable mention for the numerous and multiple TPKs in White Plume mountain and Temple of Elemental Evil.
Oh man, I think your PCs aren't as cowardly and paranoid as mine. In Rise of the Runelords, I killed some insane amount of PCs, something over 22 PC deaths (not counting breath of life, which would put them over 50 probably, since the Mystic Theurge had Spell Perfection in that spell), but they never TPKed.
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It seems from this thread that a PC should expect to die at least once on average during their career (33 XP/tables to seeker). Which is one PC death every 6 tables GMd. More often if they play certain killer scenarios/modules.
That doesn't seem overly harsh for life as a Pathfinder.
I would say that once the average goes above 1 death per career then unfun perma-death starts to look much more likely. Once it goes above 2 deaths per career it looks untenable.
My personal experience of death rates as a GM is much lower than that at 5 PC deaths in 80+ convention tables GMd or one per 16 tables. Two of those were player avoidable/self inflicted, the other 3 happened in one scenario (with a table of 4 players in a season 4). That comes out as about one third of a chance of PC death in their career.
On the other side my now seeker PC has died once (at level 9 or 10) and would have died twice but for a shirt reroll (in waking rune at level 11).
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It seems from this thread that a PC should expect to die at least once on average during their career (33 XP/tables to seeker). Which is one PC death every 6 tables GMd. More often if they play certain killer scenarios/modules.
That doesn't seem overly harsh for life as a Pathfinder.
I would say that once the average goes above 1 death per career then unfun perma-death starts to look much more likely. Once it goes above 2 deaths per career it looks untenable.
My personal experience of death rates as a GM is much lower than that at 5 PC deaths in 80+ convention tables GMd or one per 16 tables. Two of those were player avoidable/self inflicted, the other 3 happened in one scenario (with a table of 4 players in a season 4). That comes out as about one third of a chance of PC death in their career.
On the other side my now seeker PC has died once (at level 9 or 10) and would have died twice but for a shirt reroll (in waking rune at level 11).
That's impressively low given they were con tables. I always find con tables to be much more likely to have deaths.
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That's impressively low given they were con tables. I always find con tables to be much more likely to have deaths.
There have been several very near misses and there was a standard TPU(nconscious) in first steps.
Most of the players at cons I attend are experienced players with a lot that know each other, so that may be why the death rate is lower. Experienced players making use of action economy on mostly 6 player tables seems to swing things for them. I find it is the 4 or 5 player tables with a slightly unbalanced PC mix, where it starts to look shaky, regardless of scaling,.
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This thread makes me uncomfortable... and I'm not really sure why.
Do you have this eery feeling that everyone is going to say, "Oh - that few? Let's bring things up a notch shall we?!"
a failed reflex save vs chain lightning and died from resulting half damage.
Not that surprising - a failed reflex save is full damage for a 5-9 Rogue. Can't get improved evasion until 10th!
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I have a levels, 10, 7, 6,5,4,4,4,3, and a 1.
I have yet to have a character die. I have had my one turned to stone, and 6 times dropped below 0. My level 10 once because the DM put extra monsters in and was too time crunched to recalculate the damage a few rounds after he realized it.
I know there are other people with stats similar to mine.
Smart play saves characters and groups. I have DMed games where one person saved the group multiple times and prevented deathes. I am willing to bet big norse wolf and jiggy are liek that too.
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Today marked my 90th table credit and my 2nd perma-dead PC. L1 fighter playing up refused to stay off the front lines; such is life.
Although, as I recently discovered, that number should be much higher--I was giving out saving throws in Thornkeep when I wasn't supposed to be, because I misunderstood how that one thing works. ;p
I've only had two PCs deaths that needed raises, and I reversed one of them afterwards when I realized I'd screwed something up with a spell. (I still would've killed the character, I think, but we'll never know.)
Mostly I feel like PCs walk all over any combats I have. Partly due to the noted phenomenon of PCs tromping all over combat in PFS anyway, and partly due to my ludicrously bad rolls. (Seriously, it's ... surreal. I'll have BBEGs that actually last several rounds and still never hit because I keep getting 1s and 2s on my dice.) But I am getting deadlier, apparently, since two months ago I had never killed anyone.
10 Con Rogue/Ninjas are one of the least survivable characters I've seen. :)
10 Con anything has a fairly short lifespan, in my experience.
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NO offense Patrick, but as one of your regular players, we tend to have hyper min/max players who are also there to have roleplay fun. With how fast we kill the encounters, its hard to kill us. ANd did I mention you have a large number of people who GM who make up your regular player base. Just saying.
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I keep a spreadsheet of kills, because I am a data freak...
So far I have had 2 TPK's (9 players), 14 kills, 8 Permanent deaths, and 2 deaths on first time PFS players.
My numbers are awful, I know... I will try better.
As long as all your players had a good time, you did fine :)
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NO offense Patrick, but as one of your regular players, we tend to have hyper min/max players who are also there to have roleplay fun. With how fast we kill the encounters, its hard to kill us. ANd did I mention you have a large number of people who GM who make up your regular player base. Just saying.
Hey, I'm not saying I expect to be deadly. If anything, I'm surprised by how many people I have managed to take out.
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10 Con Rogue/Ninjas are one of the least survivable characters I've seen. :)Got a Con 8 elf magus in my area. Somehow got to level 3, but after several near brushes with death, Toughness and a +2 Con belt are in her near future.
I told someone the batman challenge is play a dhampir ninja with 5 a con.
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I told someone the batman challenge is play a dhampir ninja with 5 a con.10 Con Rogue/Ninjas are one of the least survivable characters I've seen. :)Got a Con 8 elf magus in my area. Somehow got to level 3, but after several near brushes with death, Toughness and a +2 Con belt are in her near future.
I always wanted to play an Elf wizard with 5 Con, and at the beginning of every session, ask my teammates which one wanted to push him around in his wheelchair.