Bonuses of different types, as well as untyped bonuses, stack.
The Dwarf gets a racial bonus, the druidic bonus is untyped, so they stack.
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Found in Chapter 1 Getting Started: Common Terms section.
Bonus: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.
Found in Chapter 1 Getting Started: Common Terms section.
Stacking: Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa.
Found in Chapter 9 Magic: Casting Spells section.
Bonus Types: Usually, a bonus has a type that indicates how the spell grants the bonus. The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don’t generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical Effects). The same principle applies to penalties—a character taking two or more penalties of the same type applies only the worst one, although most penalties have no type and thus always stack. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.
The stacking system as a whole is left wanting in how it all works together. It appears that all instances of allowed similar stacking include some form of text to cover that they do indeed stack. Circumstance bonuses are not mentioned in the common terms section, index, or anywhere except in entries that they are mentioned in. Seems like someone forgot to add that so as to better define it in relation to bonuses. Type is another word that is used in a vague manner well before it is explained more in Chapter 9 and is otherwise also without an explicitly solid definition.
Fearless: Halflings receive a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws against fear. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by halfling luck.
Halfling Luck: Halflings receive a +1 racial bonus on all saving throws.
Barbarian
Indomitable Will (Ex): While in rage, a barbarian of 14th level or higher gains a +4 bonus on Will saves to resist enchantment spells. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, including the morale bonus on Will saves she also receives during her rage.
Rage: While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves.
Rage Power Superstition (Ex): The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.
Hopefully this debacle is covered in the Strategy Guide, a future rework of the Core Rulebook, or a Rules Compendium.
That's interesting, I'm having trouble locating a rule that says racial and circumstance bonuses stack. Circumstance bonuses did stack under 3.5, and racial bonuses were specified as stacking at one time. The relevant part of the Pathfinder rules does not list circumstance bonuses and racial bonuses.
That said:
Halfling luck is specified as stacking, so that's a +3 total racial bonus on saves versus fear.
With Indomitable Will, Barbarians get an untyped +4 to Will vs. enchantments, so that stacks with everything. With Superstition, a barbarian's morale bonus to Will saves overlaps (does not stack with) their bonus vs. vs. a spell/SLA/Su, and so provides no additional benefit until 4th level. Indomitable Will would provide the normal bonus to a non-magical Will save. Essentially everything else in those three entries stacks.
Sorry if I was being edit happy on my post but stacking rules tend to do that it seems.
That's interesting, I'm having trouble locating a rule that says racial and circumstance bonuses stack. Circumstance bonuses did stack under 3.5, and racial bonuses were specified as stacking at one time. The relevant part of the Pathfinder rules does not list circumstance bonuses and racial bonuses.
From the OGC:
A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source.Does it Stack? Yes. Most bonuses of this type are cumulative- that is, they are added together instead of taking only the highest bonus.
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A bonus granted because of the culture a particular creature was brought up in or because of innate characteristics of that type of creature. If a creature's race changes (for instance, if it dies and is reincarnated), it loses all racial bonuses it had in its previous form.
Does it Stack? Yes. Multiple bonuses of this type are cumulative- that is, they are added together instead of taking only the highest bonus.
Something is fundamentally wrong if you need to go all the way back to the 3.5 d20 SRD, even if they add it over on d20pfsrd, instead of it being in the Core Rulebook itself.
From the OGC:
A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source.
Are you citing the 3.5 rules?
No, the Pathfinder OGC site.
This page here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary
No, the Pathfinder OGC site.
This page here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary
(From d20srd.org)
So, 3.5.
No, the Pathfinder OGC site.
This page here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossarySo, 3.5.
(From d20srd.org)
No, Pathfinder. That's what the 'pf' stands for.
While the d20pfsrd (PFRPG) site has the information located on it, that information is from the d20srd (3.5) site which is not sourced from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. It is merely a kindness of whoever added it to the d20pfsrd page.
I put all references from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook above. The other information, Bonus (Alchemical)—Bonus (Trait), which is nested under the pink background header labeled (From d20srd.org) section is referenced from d20srd. Those entries are not in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook as far as I have been able to see in a bunch of searching.
All of those entries were in the 3.5 Player's Handbook in the General Guidelines and Glossary section, pages 304-314 (10 pages total).
Pathfinder Core Rulebook moved very little of that section to Chapter 1 Getting Started: Common Terms, pages 11-13 (about 2 pages if condensed). With that comes a whole bunch of term explainations, and rules associated with them, that got lost in translation during the 3.5-PFRPG conversion.
Those bonuses are in a pathfinder book. I think it is the gamemastery guide.
The rule is that bonuses of different types stack. Circumstance and racial bonuses are different bonus types.
I've been searching on the PRD site as well as wwww.d20pfsrd.com and I cannot find a non-3.5 source for the circumstance and racial bonus thing. I suspect it may have been deliberately removed.
I've been searching on the PRD site as well as wwww.d20pfsrd.com and I cannot find a non-3.5 source for the circumstance and racial bonus thing. I suspect it may have been deliberately removed.
In 3.5 all different bonuses also stacked. If it was in 3.5 it was probably as an example, not a rule. It would serve no purpose since the general rule already covered it.
Sorry, I may not have been clear. The matter was racial and circumstance bonuses stacking with other bonuses of the same type. at the least, the text for circumstance bonuses has changed.
Alchemical bonuses can be found in the CRB. You needn't look further than the humble antitoxin.
Trait bonuses came later, in the APG, and it wouldn't make sense to mention them in the CRB, since Traits aren't a part of the Core Rules.
You are still not making the proper connection to the point I was making in my previous posts. Trait bonuses of course did not exist until APG but they have their own section which defines them and clearly states the stacking rules for them. I can't really explain myself better than I already have - explicit entries for certain bonus types do not exist by themselves, even if the wording "x bonus" is part of another entry in the book such as your antitoxin example which is as follows.
Chapter 6 Equipment: Special Substances and Items, page 160
Antitoxin: If you drink a vial of antitoxin, you get a +5 alchemical bonus on Fortitude saving throws against poison for 1 hour.
Where does that mention what alchemical bonus means? It doesn't, as it just states that you get something called an "alchemical bonus". In fact, it is the only place in the whole book that the words "alchemical bonus" can be found.
Feel free to double check my work by searching the Core Rulebook for these terms.
Alchemical bonus: 1 entry, no definition
Circumstance bonus: 32 entries; no definition
Competence bonus: 53 entires; no definition
Deflection bonus: 13 entries; no definition
Dodge bonus: stopped counting due to; definition on page 179 Armor Class, Other Modifiers
Enhancement bonus: stopped counting due to; definition on page 179 Armor Class, Other Modifiers
Insight bonus: 10 entries, no definition
I could go on listing the remaining bonus types but it just further reinforcing what I posted earlier.
It doesn't need a definition. Each bonus type is simply a logic flag.
The rules are clear enough, although I'm now wondering if the absence of a rule for circumstance bonuses was deliberate.
When you add in "and as a general rule", "Generally speaking", or "Usually" you sort of put doubt behind the rest of the rule entry without further explaination. The Bonus, Stacking, and Bonus Types entries were carried over almost word for word from the 3.5 Player's Handbook. The difference, as I have stated before, is that the 3.5 PHB had entries for all the "x bonus" in the General Guidelines and Glossary section.
Without knowing you can find it on the pfsrd or in the 3.5 PHB, you do not know what certain bonuses actually entail in relation to bonuses and stacking.
This is from the 3.5 PHB, I dare you to find either in the CRB.
circumstance bonus: A bonus granted because of specific conditional factors favorable to the success of the task at hand.
Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same benefit. For instance, a magnifying glass gives a +2 circumstance bonus on Appraise checks involving any item that is small or highly detailed, such as a gem. If you had a second tool that also granted a circumstance bonus from improved visual acuity (such as a jeweler’s loupe), the circumstance bonuses wouldn’t stack.
competence bonus: A bonus that improves a character’s performance at a particular task, such as from the bardic ability to inspire competence. Such a bonus may apply to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, caster level checks, or any other checks to which a bonus relating to level or skill ranks would normally apply.
It does not apply on ability checks, damage rolls, initiative checks, or other rolls that aren’t related to a character’s level or skill ranks.
Multiple competence bonuses don’t stack; only the highest bonus applies.
Sorry, I may not have been clear. The matter was racial and circumstance bonuses stacking with other bonuses of the same type. at the least, the text for circumstance bonuses has changed.
Ok..That changes a lot.
Usually, a bonus has a type that indicates how the spell grants the bonus. The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack.
With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical Effects).
Add "most" to my list of doubt causing words in the absence of a defining entry for what it refers to, in this case the lack of a circumstance bonus entry in the CRB.
I believe that in this case the term [most] refers to the existence of circumstance bonuses that do stack, and will be noted. As in, [unless otherwise noted] circumstance bonuses do not stack.
Unless you read Chapter 9, not everyone reads cover to cover, you have no idea that is the case.
Also, why do you need a definition? Are context clues not enough? The name is circumstance, meaning it involves the details of a specific situation, as in it is a bonus to this circumstance. Effects that produce a circumstance bonus will be clearly labeled as such. Effects that produce circumstance bonuses that stack are indicated.
I have no need for it but it could be clearer for those who might, someone on d20pfsrd thought it was important enough to pull from the 3.5 SRD. Someone at Paizo decided it was not worth copying the Glossary entries for "X bonus", and 8 more pages to the CRB. Context is a funny thing as it is not always as cut and dry depending on the reader. Waiting all the way until Chapter 9, which is about magic, after a few chapters of many mentions of a term (circumstance bonus) to add in some specifics is a stretch. Not all circumstance bonus mentions prior to Chaper 9 are related to magic.
As the APG was written from scratch, it was possible to add in a fair bit of context for stuff like Boasting Taunt. A large portion of the CRB was not written from scratch though and is missing specific things that 3.5 had which helped to explain certain things better without "guessing".
Also, and this is the kicker, the OPs question was whether or not racial and class bonuses stack, not if there was a definition of circumstance bonus in the CRB.
I am pretty sure I used the halfling racial traits and barbarian class abilities as a decent contextual example to give insight to the original question. Circumstance bonus only came into the discussion as a further example of how bonuses as a whole are defined and presented in the book.
I think the addition of "most" to the circumstance bonus means that there are many similar/same sources to get them and in that case they do not stack.
For example both using a map and using a map maker's kit grant a circumstance bonus to survival checks to avoid getting lost. In this case I would ruse that both sources are too similar to stack.
Using either of the two above together with a compass, on the other hand, should work as both are totally different sources for the circumstance bonus.
Sorry, I may not have been clear. The matter was racial and circumstance bonuses stacking with other bonuses of the same type. at the least, the text for circumstance bonuses has changed.Ok..That changes a lot.
Usually, a bonus has a type that indicates how the spell grants the bonus. The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack.
With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical Effects).
Ok, that's under spell effects. Weird, but it does exist.
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Unless you read Chapter 9, not everyone reads cover to cover, you have no idea that is the case.
And if you don't read cover to cover you'll miss the rules for poisons, too.
I still don't understand your problem. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
We've given you answers, and shown that you needn't crack open a 3.5 book to find them. Pathfinder is completely playable as its own game. No prior knowledge of 3.5 is necessary.
But if your excuse is "OMG this book has so many pages there's no way I could ever read everything", then there's nothing we can do for you.
I still don't understand your problem. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. We've given you answers, and shown that you needn't crack open a 3.5 book to find them. Pathfinder is completely playable as its own game. No prior knowledge of 3.5 is necessary. But if your excuse is "OMG this book has so many pages there's no way I could ever read everything", then there's nothing we can do for you.
You don't seem to understand my whole point that I was making so all I am left with is a cycle of replies in the hopes that the words make sense in your brain at some point.
I made no excuses for myself on finding the information or drawing conclusions as to what means what, what could mean what, what I think means what, and so on. I have read the book cover to cover and have played 3.x systems long enough to draw conclusions in light of what I consider useful missing information in the CRB. There is nothing any of us can do if someone (and I am not speaking about myself) has an issue with finding stuff in the book, that is up to Paizo to fix somehow.
People asking questions is not a problem I have, that is the point of the forum after all. That rather lengthy explaination of what you think I think is interesting though but not even close. You based it as a question, which I could answer but I would just be further "invading" according to you by doing so. Meandering close to the topic on hand never happens in threads on forums! The rules organization stuff organically went that route after my first reply, which was in response to the original question, based on other replies.