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Hello all, I've recently created a character with the intention of turning her into an arcane archer. Her character sheet is here, I started her off as a fighter (lore warden). While I realize that isn't a fantastic archetype, I figured the loss of shield and heavier armor didn't matter since I'd be casting arcane spells most of the time. So why not take a few extra skill points?
Anyways, there are two major routes I'm thinking about taking. The first is Fighter (Lore Warden) 1/Magus (Myrmidarch) 7)/Arcane Archer 2. The other is Fighter (Lore Warden) 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer 1. There are a lot of pros and cons to each one, so I'll lay them out.
What this build has that the other doesn't:
1 more bonus feat
Wizard's Arcane Bond
Wizard's Arcane School
Build @: Fighter (Lore Warden) 1/Magus (Myrmidarch) 7)Arcane Archer 2
What this build has that the other doesn't:
Fort Save is 2 higher, Will Save is 1 higher
13 average higher HP
2 more skill points
Magus Arcane Pool (Works nicely with enhance arrows ability from Arcane Archer)
Ranged Spellstrike (Deliver touch spells via arrows)
Weapon Training (+1 to hit and damage)
1 Magus Arcana (undecided)
Ability to cast in light armor
Ability to cast in medium armor beginning at lv 8
Is ahead in Arcane Archer by 1 level
Spells
I decided this needed its own section because it's kinda a big game changer. If you look at just the above, then of course the second build is far superior. But the first build has much better spellcasting progression.
First Build
0th-4/day
1st-5/day
2nd-4/day
3rd-3/day
4th-2/day
Also note that wizards have a larger selection of spells to choose from.
Second Build
0th-4/day
1st-3/day
2nd-3/day
3rd-1/day
Also note this build can start casting through her bow at level 5, in addition to being able to use touch spells through her bow.
Any and all feedback is appreciated. Feel free to criticize any of my choices as well. I'm also not saying no to an entirely different build (some people say ranger is the better route to go than fighter), so feel free to suggest anything and everything. Thanks!
As I said in the other thread, I would just go archer bard. Yes, the DC's won't be that high, but if you are just going buff/utility on your spells, it won't matter. At 15 point buy, any MAD class is going to feel weaker than if you had more points to bulk them up.
Arcane Archer doesn't require martial weapon proficiency, the bard route is a good idea. Take the Arcane Duelist route and you get an arcane bond and some really useful songs. Love that bard spell list too.
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Hmm, the archer bard is interesting. While it would certainly work out, it would not entirely fit with what I had in mind. Mainly because I want an INT based caster, but also because I don't want her to be a support character. The last reason is character background, which I don't expect anybody to familiarize themselves with but suffice to say her low CHA is part of her character. I shall keep the archer bard AA in mind though, perhaps another time.
Hey mortimer
a few points to note: the Spellstrike ability would only allow you to deliver 1 Touch attack spell and deliver it with 1 Arrow (you are not getting iterative attack with it)
So while useful at low level it not that good at higher (can't rapid shot either)
I would go with EK and focus on buff spell / defensive spell (mirror image) and Ranged AoE
Go with divination school in order to make sure you go first :)
Go myrmadarch... for one reason... force hook charge spell at a target at maximum bow range
if you are going to be taking a few levels in that game remember that you will have access to high spells level with the EK
Since you will be spending most of your combat round doing rapid shot + iterative you won't be casting much spell.
They are mostly used in pre combat / or as "Oh Crap" button (vanish/mirror image/ displacement / heroism / Invisibility Greater.
With just this pre buff (medium duration) Heroism / Resist Energy (Fire) / see invis / False Life / Heroism
and if in combat you can also do you 1 of these spell mirror image / displacement / Improved invis and Rapid shot till everything dies...
The ek is superior because of the spell list selection.
The magus spell list is pretty decent to but does focus more on touch attack spell and these don't do much for an archer.
The divination school is superior for this following reason. since you are mostly prebuffed you only need to put up 1 defensive spell (see above post) per combat.
So if you casted in the surprise round then on regular round you can full attack (action economy)
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Holy crap I just looked up the divination school abilities.
A big spell I was thinking about was Arrow Eruption as well. Seems like it can domino effect the battlefield.
Yes for when you need AoE damage you can Fireball /arrow Eruption or just Focus Fire on big monster with your buffed Arrow.
you can't do as well with the magus as the staple ability won't scale (arcane pool ) and remember with a 25pts buy you will have low Int so very little Arcane pool points to play with and you will be getting only the 5th level ability)
Remember you need Str for basic Bow static damage
Dex for your to hit
and some Int for your spell
so even with a 25 pts buy you wont be doing better then STR 16 DEX 16 INT 14 (before level and items)
netting you a meager 5 arcane pool points...
So you're focusing more on the spells than on the archery. Usually Arcane Archers tend to use spells to empower their archery ability, so you don't need high dcs...
A big spell I was thinking about was Arrow Eruption as well. Seems like it can domino effect the battlefield.
Add Gravity Bow to that and we're talking! ^_^
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Yes I have made my decision, I am going with the Wizard/EK build. The over-complication of the magus skills in combination aren't worth it, and I believe the far superior casting abilities (especially getting access to the truly great AA spells, such as anti-magic field and prismatic sphere) has convinced me this is the way to go. Thank you everybody for the valuable input*!
*And MC Templar for the laugh, he.
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I do not abuse the "spell-like ability qualification" loophole because it's unnecessary power gaming that's in poor taste.That ruling was one of the stupidest rules changes/rulings I have ever read.
I will not rant here about the idiocy of it but it will NEVER be used in any game I ever run, and I will never play in a game that allows it.
Completely agreed. It is - for the lack of a better word - stupid.
@Whisperknives. I highly doubt it. Probably the description of "there can only be one in existence" keeps that from happening.
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I think your Build 1 only gets one fourth level spell. The fighter and both the first levels of AA and EK do not add spells. With INT 18, you would get a second spell.
Going the SLA route does not improve your spellcasting progression. It does increase your BAB and HP, while giving you three levels of AA. For people in PFS, this is the way to go.
What level do you hope to reach with this character?
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Hmm, the archer bard is interesting. While it would certainly work out, it would not entirely fit with what I had in mind. Mainly because I want an INT based caster, but also because I don't want her to be a support character. The last reason is character background, which I don't expect anybody to familiarize themselves with but suffice to say her low CHA is part of her character. I shall keep the archer bard AA in mind though, perhaps another time.
Bard is out, completely.
I have no idea what level I will reach. It's a homebrew campaign, he says minimum will be about 10 but hopefully it will go on longer. Either way it's a character I really like so I'll probably run it in future games.
Anyways, there are two major routes I'm thinking about taking. The first is Fighter (Lore Warden) 1/Magus (Myrmidarch) 7)/Arcane Archer 2. The other is Fighter (Lore Warden) 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer 1. There are a lot of pros and cons to each one, so I'll lay them out.
Generally, for the eldritch knight route I prefer martial (usually fighter or ranger*) 1/arcane (sorcerer, witch, or wizard) 6/eldritch knight 2/arcane archer 3/eldritch knight +8. The extra level of arcane instead of eldritch knight gives the same BAB, but increases all saves by +1 and can provide a slight boost to the class abilities. Also, I usually find the (nearly) full spellcasting progression of eldritch knight more useful than the arcane archer class abilities after arcane archer 3 (Imbue Spell and Enhance Arrows (Elemental)); ending up with +17 BAB and 17 levels of spellcasting progression (9th-level spells for a witch or wizard) is pretty nice on it's own!
*- Ranger doesn't get a bonus feat, but Favored Enemy (depending on the campaign, or if taking Humanoid (Human)) can be a relatively frequent benefit; plus, the character can use wands of aspect of the falcon, cure light wounds, barkskin, etc. without Use Magic Device checks.
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It's a very diverse setting, so favored enemy wouldn't be too useful. That's a very good point about the wand though, if we didn't have a divine caster already I might rethink my build.
I am in one game where the only race is humans, so I went a ranger haha, it's so good. Another game was underwater, so I chose my favored terrain as water. Oh the ranger.
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So, in terms of DPS, the fighter would probably be higher since it has a bonus feat. I'm not against ranger, I actually like it more for all of its utility, but making the best "gish" would benefit more from feats than skills.
dpr does not make the best gish, at all.
a character that can adapt to literally any situation presented to it is what make a character "best" IMO.
trapper ranger 1/wizard 5(teleportation school)/ek4/AA 2/EK 6/AA2
best gish archer
/end thread
You have promotet this guy on other threads also i am still confused why he takes the 10' shift action teleport( and end action) over the diviner(forsigth School). And if the teleport is important wouldent it be good to get the 6th level so the range would be 15'?
And to the OP. I suggest getting 5 levels in the excelent Lore warden archtype and then take 2 levels in diviner( forsigth School) this way you will keep the character relevant as an archer all the way and the magic will be an added bonus. The alternative is getting all kind of mini tricks but having bad BaB and still not full Spell power for the first half of the progression. And then when the build mature, and the party is used to you being the guy that hold the horses when they figth, you will be ok.
This method will not make you a great wizard not even at level 20 but you will be a great archer all the way.
Edit: my point is. If you want to be an archer you cannot be a second grade one because then you are better of playing like the second grade wizard you at best can be.
Dimension door lets you:
Escape grapples
Move over terrain
Move behind cover after a full attack, then 5 foot out of cover and full attack preventing a full attack against you.It is a tactically superior ability over just having surprise/ high initiative. Just my opinion though
Ok tactical movement. I guess that will depend on how the group use terrain and combat map. But how about taking the 6th level as a wizard for getting range 15' on the shift power?
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i would say no because, and only because seeker arrow has a better value then 5 feet of movement 3+int per day will. and with a level 20 build you will actually use seeker arrow more then 10 times per day. pretty much anytime you have to move to shoot, and spells will be less effective then physical damage.
improved precise shot would be a feat worth investing in still though.
I was selling a level of eldrich knight. It will also improved saves with one.
I was selling a level of eldrich knight. It will also improved saves with one.but why lose a swift action free cast? even if you use armor, like mithril chain shirt, you would still have a 90% chance for a successful cast.
I dont have any experiance with this guy but i dont see it being a very usefull feature on the archer. Either you have plans for retreating with your shift power after shoting or you have already used a quicknd Spell that round to boost survival.
I can see it looks cool on paper but like a 10' teleport i cannot see it being a game winner, Very often.