How are GM-star replays working out?


Pathfinder Society

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4/5

It was mentioned that Brock would consider resetting these at gencon, as you wanted to see how they played first.
Any new information about which way you are leaning towards on this?

The Exchange 4/5

I used all of my stars to replay EotT to help make a table at a recent convention and so far its worked out fantastically. I wouldn't mind the gm stars refreshing every year as I've already put in the work for them and will continue to do so.

Grand Lodge 4/5

I have finally used one of my star replays during PaizoCon this weekend to get GM credit for Fate of the Fiend on both of my Cheliax ifrit brothers.

Also, it appears that the system has been updated with replay credit options as there is no error message on my session.

5/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I have finally used one of my star replays during PaizoCon this weekend to get GM credit for Fate of the Fiend on both of my Cheliax ifrit brothers.

Heh, I used my first one this past weekend too at InConJunction. Mine was to rerun Year of the Shadow Lodge for credit again though =p

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

I used my first to replay Siege of the Diamond City.

a) It is my favorite special/exclusive
b) Helped fill tables at a recent game-day event locally
c) Got my post EoT 13.2 character to level 14.

With another local group gearing up for Eyes of the Ten, I might use my other stars to replay that if they need one more (even though I'd rather save them to put thematically appropriate scenarios on some of my characters).

I'm still on the fence about whether I like that they don't renew or wishing that they did, so I think having that come in boon-form is a good idea :)

Scarab Sages 4/5

I know the details aren't worked out yet, but John Compton indicated in the Know Direction podcast that there would likely be a once per season convention boon that allowed the replays to reset. My question is, if I have two replays reset from the previous season (or if I don't use any this season), could I play two games next season, then get the Season 6 reset boon and play two more? That would open up the possibility of replaying a long series like Echos of the Everwar or, yes, EotT.

But really, I just want to know if I should go ahead and use my 2 now before the end of Season 5. If I can't use them in season 6 and use the season 6 reset boon (should I even acquire it), I don't want to lose them.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

My impression from the podcast was that they were a one-time (per star) award, but that if you used said boon, they would reset, so that you could use all of your "original" ones before "refreshing" them.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Mike Bramnik wrote:
My impression from the podcast was that they were a one-time (per star) award, but that if you used said boon, they would reset, so that you could use all of your "original" ones before "refreshing" them.

I actually like that over an annual reset. It prevents you from having to use 'em or lose 'em.

3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Annual reset, no boon, would be nice. This is supposed to be a reward for GM'ing, not a convention thing. Conventions have race boons, this is currently the best perk for FLGS/home PFS GMs.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

Popping in here... I have use mine early on, though there is no real way to report the star use when reporting the game, from what I have seen.

3/5

trollbill wrote:
Mike Bramnik wrote:
My impression from the podcast was that they were a one-time (per star) award, but that if you used said boon, they would reset, so that you could use all of your "original" ones before "refreshing" them.
I actually like that over an annual reset. It prevents you from having to use 'em or lose 'em.

I have to disagree here. There are plenty of ways that PFS and conventions reward their convention GMs. Let's not alienate gameday GMs from this potentially great resource / commodity / prize / compensation / thank you gift.

Sovereign Court 1/5

I love PFS. I think it is a great way to get new players into the game and give them something tangible (Chronicle Sheet) plus a top flight experience, (ideally).

In our area we have a few people who are willing to run games. That makes getting 1-5 sessions for credit hard. The best solution would be to develop a larger pool of GM, which we are trying to do. It is a difficult process, because let's face it - we want to keep the level of ability at a certain point to maintain the quality of the experience.

I think there has to be something to reward folks willing to GM time and time again. I think that the lack of such a reward system is a fault in PFS. I never got into organized play with AD&D, too busy working and raising a family, but were there any special rewards for GM's in other Organized Play?

4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
thaX wrote:
Popping in here... I have use mine early on, though there is no real way to report the star use when reporting the game, from what I have seen.

Yep, I get warning's to say "player has already run this scenario" but when they add Stars reporting (or something similar to reporting session) and I'll update the sessions accordingly, but it looks like I need to find that podcast and make sure I read the new rules for organised play when they come out.

fingers crossed for a reset of Stars at Gen Con...

5/5 5/55/55/5

lastblacknight wrote:
thaX wrote:
Popping in here... I have use mine early on, though there is no real way to report the star use when reporting the game, from what I have seen.

Yep, I get warning's to say "player has already run this scenario" but when they add Stars reporting (or something similar to reporting session) and I'll update the sessions accordingly, but it looks like I need to find that podcast and make sure I read the new rules for organised play when they come out.

fingers crossed for a reset of Stars at Gen Con...

I believe they said they were going to have a fairly easy to get convention boon to reset your stars.

4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hopefully the boon wont be a limited GenCon boon. Thanks for the update.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Likely it won't be limited to Gen Con. I would be surprised if our two local cons did NOT get this boon as well.

Silver Crusade 3/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I hope it's not limited to cons because what about the gm's over seas or those that don't go to cons but rack up plenty of games at local shops. I always saw the gm's as the floor sales people for paizo who are showing off the game to the public. By them running the scenarios which they don't get for free unless they are venture captains or if they gm at a con and are given free pdf of the scenarios they are running. The gm's are spending plenty of money just to be that said sales person. I think the gm star replays should renew each year automatically after each paizo con for all gm's and not just for the ones who can afford to go to gen- con or paizo con because that makes it unfair for those who can't. Those cons already give the gm's who go to them cool race boons but to limit the gm star replays to the cons is basically saying it's only for those who have the money to come to the cons.

Shadow Lodge

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
I believe they said they were going to have a fairly easy to get convention boon to reset your stars.

No matter how "easy to get" it is, making this a con boon still relegates this "GM reward" largely just another reward exclusive to con GMs.

The entire point of the GM star replay rule was supposed to be a reward for ALL GMs, but this change makes this another case of regular game day GMs being considered not as important as con GMs.

I understand that Paizo wants to give extra incentives for attending cons, but that doesn't have to be at the expense of everyone else. Con-goers already get boons the entire rest of the player base can't; we don't need to co-opt every reward for their benefit.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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SCPRedMage wrote:


I understand that Paizo wants to give extra incentives for attending cons, but that doesn't have to be at the expense of everyone else. Con-goers already get boons the entire rest of the player base can't; we don't need to co-opt every reward for their benefit.

Preaching to the choir there.

On the plus side, unlike race boons there should be a fair bit of trickle down with this, since the DM can only use one boon a year and most DM at multiple conventions they should be pretty willing to part with the additional ones.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

a simple annual reset would be great thanks :)

2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Haven't used a single one.

Another vote for an Annual Reset.

Shadow Lodge

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Preaching to the choir there.

Well aware; you've been a vocal supporter of expanding support for the non-con-going portion of the GM pool, and it's always nice to see someone else chime in, seeing as that's the only way the powers-that-be can get a sense of how many of us would like to see such a change.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
On the plus side, unlike race boons there should be a fair bit of trickle down with this, since the DM can only use one boon a year and most DM at multiple conventions they should be pretty willing to part with the additional ones.

I'm not a fan of any form of economics whose name makes me think I should be showering after "benefiting" from it.

Also, I have concerns that areas with fewer convention-attending players would have fewer of these boons to be "trickled down" on the rest of the GMs.

5/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well I just picked up my second star. I burned my first replay on Siege of the Diamond City. I'm saving my second for a replay of Race for the Runecarved Key which incidentally if anyone knows of this going on this mid-Atlantic region please let me know.

We'll get some notice on the replays resetting. If so I'll have to find something else to use it on.

Shadow Lodge 1/5

I think a simple formula of for every 3-5 games gmed a year you get 1 star replay restored is not convention centric but encourages people to gm.

Silver Crusade 4/5

I vote for some type of reset, maybe every other year or something like that. Otherwise, like many others, I might never use my star(s).

Shadow Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Personally, I would think the best option would be to have GM Star Replays renew each year on Jan 01st. Or at east maybe 1 - 2 of them. 3 and 5 GM Stars (or maybe 4-5?), might work well as a special Con Boon, allowing those GMs that go to Cons to still get a reward that they are more likely to need anyway, but allowing everyone else to still be rewarded for DMing.

If it's on Jan 1, for one it's a hard date, and it allows DM's that go to large conventions to plan for using their stars nearer the end of the Reset date, and also to start to use them for a good bit of the next season as well. Particularly on the newer scenarios that a lot of players are going to want to get into, (likely the newest 1-5s and 3-7s), continuing to reward all DMs for DMing for others and not playing themselves.

I personally also feel that this should not be a "lets reward Con-goers at the expense of everyone else" sort of deal. This is not something I would like to receive for going to a Con or GameDay or whatever, but it is something I would like to be able to use for being the main DM in my local area and for all the online games I run. I still think that (at least a limited) automatic reset is the best option for everyone. I'm holding back my stars just because there are things I specifically want to replay, but as I usually GM now, they have not come up and well, I'm usually the GM. When I do play, I have enough characters that I can usually help make nearly any party, but I would rather get no credit for most scenarios than use my Star Replays at this point, not knowing for sure that certain scenarios I want another crack at may then be out of reach. I want another go at Midnight Mauler (story) and In Wrath's Shadow (chronicle Item), for instance. I'd also love to have a single character with all of the Blakros Museum scenarios (but not Blakros non-museum), including the coming Season 6 one, which is probably going to require one of my mostly unplayed DM credit characters to fit all the levels in and be legal.

2/5

I agree with the idea of not restricting replays to cons, even though I do attend them. I've been saving my one replay (so far) since I don't want to blow it on just any scenario.

There wasn't any cool race boon for PaizoCon GMs this year though :(

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

Just a thought to throw out there - what if they refreshed at a rate of 1 per 50 games past 150, like the GM Star Boons currently do?

Also, a question from one of my local GMs that I honestly don't know the answer to...can you use a star replay to get credit for GMing a second time, or only for playing?

Thanks!

Grand Lodge 4/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:

Just a thought to throw out there - what if they refreshed at a rate of 1 per 50 games past 150, like the GM Star Boons currently do?

Also, a question from one of my local GMs that I honestly don't know the answer to...can you use a star replay to get credit for GMing a second time, or only for playing?

Thanks!

On the question: You can use your GM star replay for either getting a second player or GM chronicle for a scenario. Note that this can only be used, for one or the other, one time per scenario/module, for a maximum of three chronicles for that scenario or module; one GM chronicle, one player chronicle, and one GM Star chronicle.

Dark Archive

Not so sure I want someone with only ten GMed games to renew his/her star replay every year without ever having to give back to the society ever again. Maybe a renewal after you GM at least 10 games, not tied down to a calendar year though. So if I GM 7 games this year, I only.have to GM 3 more to reset. In this case, even a 5 star is only getting half as many playbacks as they are GMing. That is a a very fair exchange rate for someone who already gave so much time and effort to the campaign.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:
Just a thought to throw out there - what if they refreshed at a rate of 1 per 50 games past 150, like the GM Star Boons currently do?

I assume you mean 1 Star per 200 games a year. I'd say that's a lot high (being almost 4 games every week per star), but 3-5 is also very low. Ideally, if that was the case, I would look at something like 1 per 30 games.

One issue I might see with that is what happens for DM's running things online that will have games running through any given reset day. Things like this are why I hope it is also not relate to how many games a DM runs.

Another issue is that this seems to reward people that DM less more than it does those that DM more (and probably also get to play less).

Mike Bramnik wrote:

Also, a question from one of my local GMs that I honestly don't know the answer to...can you use a star replay to get credit for GMing a second time, or only for playing?

Thanks!

My understanding is that yes, a DM can use their Replay on games they have run for credit, but I can not recall where I saw that (or if it was official).

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Raymond Lambert wrote:
Not so sure I want someone with only ten GMed games to renew his/her star replay every year without ever having to give back to the society ever again.

I don't really have an issue with that. Said person is getting a whole 1 Replay a year, and probably paying a lot more than they are DMing.

It kind of gives the impression that 1 Star GM's didn't do anything worth a darn, and we should just ignore them for better GM's, which is probably not the message we want sent.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

(First, thanks both of you, kinevon and Beckett, on the answer re: replay/re-GM)

I actually did mean refresh at one per 50 games, after attaining 150 (5th star). That way it can be as fast/slow based on how much work a GM put in over the course of a year. If they GM 100 games a year, giving them an extra 2 star-replays is kind of a small "price" but still offers a reward and incentive for GMing, just like GM stars did originally before there was any sort of reward beyond the shiny purple stars beside our names :)

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:

(First, thanks both of you, kinevon and Beckett, on the answer re: replay/re-GM)

I actually did mean refresh at one per 50 games, after attaining 150 (5th star). That way it can be as fast/slow based on how much work a GM put in over the course of a year. If they GM 100 games a year, giving them an extra 2 star-replays is kind of a small "price" but still offers a reward and incentive for GMing, just like GM stars did originally before there was any sort of reward beyond the shiny purple stars beside our names :)

The problem with that was mentioned earlier. If you keep it to 5 Star GM's only, (it' basically no different than a Gencon only Boon sort of deal), and it's also basically cutting out people outside the states that, no matter how much they run, might not be able to make it to a big Con just because of their location. I could probably get behind this for maybe 3 or 4 star levels, though my preference would be a bit lower still.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

I totally get where you're coming from, and I was definitely unclear just above.

Let's say I removed the "(5th star)" from my last post. My thought is that for star-refreshing it should purely based on games one has GM'd, not on conventions (since for that 5th star you need x number of specials/exclusives plus observation and etc.) - this way no matter where you are in the world, you just get 1 "star-replay" at 10, 30, 60, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, etc., regardless of how many "GM stars" you have on the boards.

Another reason I suggest 50 as the number is because it a) is easier to remember, and b) it lines up with the "GM star boon" that you get to apply new ones of every 50 games past 150, making it easy to implement.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:

I totally get where you're coming from, and I was definitely unclear just above.

Let's say I removed the "(5th star)" from my last post. My thought is that for star-refreshing it should purely based on games one has GM'd, not on conventions (since for that 5th star you need x number of specials/exclusives plus observation and etc.) - this way no matter where you are in the world, you just get 1 "star-replay" at 10, 30, 60, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, etc., regardless of how many "GM stars" you have on the boards.

Another reason I suggest 50 as the number is because it a) is easier to remember, and b) it lines up with the "GM star boon" that you get to apply new ones of every 50 games past 150, making it easy to implement.

Ah, I don't really see any issue with that.

Shadow Lodge

DM Beckett wrote:
Mike Bramnik wrote:

I totally get where you're coming from, and I was definitely unclear just above.

Let's say I removed the "(5th star)" from my last post. My thought is that for star-refreshing it should purely based on games one has GM'd, not on conventions (since for that 5th star you need x number of specials/exclusives plus observation and etc.) - this way no matter where you are in the world, you just get 1 "star-replay" at 10, 30, 60, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, etc., regardless of how many "GM stars" you have on the boards.

Another reason I suggest 50 as the number is because it a) is easier to remember, and b) it lines up with the "GM star boon" that you get to apply new ones of every 50 games past 150, making it easy to implement.

Ah, I don't really see any issue with that.

I do.

I GM a table on average twice a month. Running at that rate, even if I were already at 150 tables now, that still means I'd be averaging a bit less than one replay every two years.

At that rate, that's not a GM reward, that's a statistical anomaly.

Seeing as we don't have any rampant issues with people who've run a game before spoiling the scenario for people who haven't, and this is a relatively limited number of replays, I don't see any compelling reason to restrict this any more than the yearly refresh.

Also, tying it to the number of tables run in a single year would be a tracking nightmare, as the system doesn't include any way to show the number of table credits within a given time frame.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 *****

I do get you in terms of how often you GM, and every 50 games isn't going to help that part. But at the same time, if the original idea was 1 at 10, one more at 30, another at 60, and a final one at 100, refreshing them at lower numbers is also not the best... what about 25, splitting the difference?

And I never said anything about per year - that would be fairly insane! I'm just talking cumulative numbers, which is already tracked.

3/5

Mike Bramnik wrote:

I do get you in terms of how often you GM, and every 50 games isn't going to help that part. But at the same time, if the original idea was 1 at 10, one more at 30, another at 60, and a final one at 100, refreshing them at lower numbers is also not the best... what about 25, splitting the difference?

And I never said anything about per year - that would be fairly insane! I'm just talking cumulative numbers, which is already tracked.

Actually, at least based on the guide releases, the original idea was 1/star, renewed anually. It was then decided that the system should be tested throughout season 5 to see how well it worked before promising a yearly renewal. The second release of the season 5 guide changed this from the first one.

I've not heard of anyone complaining that the replays have somehow upset game-balance, the fun being had by anyone, or any other measure of non-success.

I feel that yearly renewals, without needing a boon, is reasonable for someone who volunteers to GM from time to time. If they're GMing 10 tables in a year, then they get 1 replay years 2-4, 2 replays a year starting year 5. I'm not sure in what way this would upset things. Even if someone GMs 10 games and then stops, content with their 1 replay, I don't see that as a travesty. 1 replay a year won't ruin things (at least not based off the feedback I've seen so far from the Season 5 trial run), and there is still motivation for them to keep GM'ing should they be enticeable (more replays per year, a higher bonus on their shirt reroll, and higher tier access to the GM boons).

The logic behind allowing GM replays while not allowing replays for all was that GMs are already trusted to play in scenarios that they've run without ruining the fun for others. Therefore, it was argued, allowing them some opportunity for replay was not likely to be an issue. I'd like to think that if someone has GM'd 10 games and then stopped (potentially due to time issues or something), they have not become less trustworthy in this respect.

EDIT: In short, because this season was supposed to be a trial run to see how replays worked out before allowing them to renew, I think the default stance should be to allow them to renew yearly (without a boon) unless a problem has been found with the system. So, I guess my question is: has anyone encountered a problem with the replays?

4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Raymond Lambert wrote:
Not so sure I want someone with only ten GMed games to renew his/her star replay every year without ever having to give back to the society ever again.

I would like to see the replays reset annually as well, mainly as there are people that can't do as much for the society (like my daughter who plays and GMs during her summer visits with me, but can't get a table together when she's at her home).

Sovereign Court 4/5

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I really don't see the issue here. Having 5 stars has nothing to do with cons, and you earn stars to get a replay as it is. What's another 50 after you've earned 5 stars?

I'm not aiming at you particularly, SCPR, but as you provided a frequency example, I'm gonna run with it. With that structure you provided, it took you 5 months to get to one star replay. It then took you and additional 10 months to get your second. It will then take you 15 months to get your third and almost another two years to get your fifth. At that point, you're already gaining one star (and therefore replay) every two years. Why should it be any less now that you would have then achieved 5-star status?
This coming from a guy who runs maybe once a month.

Personally, I'm all for a boon to renew GM stars. Have it be available to GM's who go to GenCon, PaizoCon (here in the States and abroad), local cons, and large game days, as well as maybe given to local VC's to give out at their discretion for upstanding behaviour or outstanding performance. I dunno, just throwing these ideas around.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Actually, you might want to recheck the requirements for getting the 5th star.

Grand Lodge 4/5

7 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm a little concerned by the vibe I'm getting that players 'never give back to the society'.

Game days don't happen without players. I didn't get these stars by myself.
If a player gets one star and never GMs again, I don't have any problem with a rule that rewards him as well.

3/5

I have one star. I try to GM a game for every 5-6 games I play. But, I only get to play about twice a month. I was GMing more regularly when I was running at a daycare, shaping the next generation of gamers, but I'm no longer in a position where I get to do that, and so my game-accumulation has dropped off. I still try to GM when it's necessary or, as I said before, when I've played a number of games recently (I've always been of the opinion that if you run a game for every 5 games you play, you're generally helping support yourself). I still feel like I contribute and give back to the community. It would take me nigh-forever to get replays at the rates you're proposing. Under the current method, but allowed the annual renewals that were in the original season 5 guide, I would get 1 replay each year. Someone with 5 stars would get 5 replays each year.

I think that, if anything, this thread has shown that if renewal is not automatic, then GMs will hoard the replays for the most part. And half of them will use it just to help a table complete. (Yes, they could do it for no credit, but reading the thread that seems to be a major reason some have used theirs). Others will use it to get credit for GMing a beloved scenario a second time.. something, in my opinion, we should be encouraging people to do as much as possible, as repeat GMs will almost certainly out perform first-time GMs on any given scenario, all else equal.

Why would we limit these things among our GMs? Why would we want to make it harder for them to fill these tables, or give these vibrant gaming experiences to other tables of players? Let the replays renew each year, no strings attached, so that GMs can continue to be rewarded for improving our community by filling tables and re-running the scenarios they're best suited to. And if, by chance, one of these GMs does use the replay so they can have another go as a player at a scenario, good for them. I think they've earned it!

5/5

First, I'd prefer them to renew by default each year.

Second though, I do see the advantage to testing a year of limited renewal to see how extreme the results might be for those desperate to renew and abuse.

3/5

Majuba wrote:

First, I'd prefer them to renew by default each year.

Second though, I do see the advantage to testing a year of limited renewal to see how extreme the results might be for those desperate to renew and abuse.

My issue with that would be that Season 5 was our test year. Either it showed that there were no problems, or it showed that if we're in 'test' mode with the possibility of no renewal, people hoard their replays. Either way, we aren't going to see the problem until either it happens live, or the test becomes at least 2 years long with a guaranteed renewal the first (and possibly second) year.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

It would then need to be the second year, comming up that had the renewal as it seems that a lot of us, unsure if they renew have been holding them already.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

I'm one of the hoarding types. I used one GM star to make a table happen, but have been holding on to the others to wait and see what the policy gets changed to.

I think we already are seeing meaningful results from the test year, though. It seems that if GM star replays are a once/lifetime thing, replays get hoarded and generally don't do much. From the general sentiment in this thread and others, if GM star replays renew once/year, they'll get used much more often.

Sovereign Court 4/5

DM Beckett wrote:
Actually, you might want to recheck the requirements for getting the 5th star.
Good idea. Let's see.
Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play wrote:

First, a potential 5-Star GM must have run a total of 150 Pathfinder Society game sessions, including at least 50 different adventures and 10 or more Specials or Exclusive events over your entire history as a GM.

Second, once you qualify to be a 5-Star GM, you must work with your Venture-Captain to arrange to run a Pathfinder Society session in the presence of a Paizo staff member, a Venture-Captain, or a Venture-Lieutenant. This designated Paizo representative will evaluate your rules knowledge, improvisational skills, preparation, and ability to provide a fair and fun experience for Pathfinder Society players.
Finally, at the recommendation of the Paizo representative, you may be granted a 5th star, which will be noted on your paizo.com user profile, on your Pathfinder Society membership card, and on your posts to the Pathfinder Society messageboard at paizo.com.

Yep, still seeing nothing about conventions. You may be thinking of a previous version which required 5-stars to go to a convention a year or something.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

My understanding is that Specials and Exclusives are generally only for the big Cons, and not Game Days/Free RPG Days, Home Games, etc. . .

I could be wrong, but as I understand it, we failed to qualify to run specials in the last two Online Game Days.

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