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I'm of the opinion that they should be used for taking credit a second time when GMing, rather than for replaying - renewable each year.
As I see it, encouraging GMs to GM scenarios multiple times results in a better experience for the players.
With the amount of emphasis on not replaying scenarios present, I don't see how allowing any replaying is a good thing.
Anybody who has gmed over 60 games im pretty sure has gmed the same scenario more then once. Seems highly unlikely that they have just run 6o or more separate scenarios. (as an example)
The players are already getting a good experience by having an experienced GM sit down and run at 2+ Stars (Not a slam on people just starting out GMing or someone who has just sat down to GM a PFS Scenario and have years of time behind the screen)
The Stars are nice reward for those GMs stepping up to run. It should be their choice on how to apply the star. (At 60 its not like IM NOT GOING TO GM lol I already love GMing otherwise I would not being doing something I dislike 60 times) If I had a choice to sit and play a fun scenario or get credit for rerunning another scenario I would like to sit with my friends and Play the fun scenario GETTING another credit OR not. Its a game and its suppose to be enjoyed. Unless the GM/Player sitting down is ruining the fun then that's up the GM running the table to ask the person to leave or remind him that he is ruining it for the others including the person running it.
Whats to stop someone from reading the scenario ahead of time and doing the same thing?? You cannot. You have to trust the person sitting down that they are not going to be "THAT GUY". I think the person with the Stars has earned a bit of trust in that department. I think replay is a good thing and like any game people can cheat. Only honesty/integrity imposed by the players and GMs themselves can stop from ruining the game. Replay is fine. They should not limit it to a one time deal. In fact it would be nice to see that as a Boon for the general player base. :D
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I thought that I might pipe in here. I find that anything that encourages a person to step up and GM is never a bad thing. While I will probably never use the replays unless it helps fill a table. I would want replays to recharge after a year because it encourages more GM and not less.
If a person feels that they will not be able to use them again they never get used and are instead hoarded. This is common. Because of the "I might need them for a really cool scenario coming up" syndrome type of thing. Plus it is "more" of a reward if they do reset.
I enjoy GM or I would not be where I am. I do not mind GMing something I have never played and want to encourage GMing something people have never played. Sometimes it is like pulling teeth to get people to understand it is ok to do so. This type of reward does encourage a person to do so. In my opinion that is a good thing!!!
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I'm also one of the many who likes to keep them for a replay of Eye of the 10 - well - still need to play it for the first time. But it is finally scheduled for March.
In regard to refresh - I really would hope that they refresh. It is less of a problem for myself - I can always GM as often as I like. But I suggested to my son to burn his only star to replay Mist of the Mwangi to get a local store going - we had 2 players - that made it 3 plus I added an NPC.
Second time around I managed 4 players by recruiting two of my son's friends.
Third time - an independent RPG got cancelled - and I suddenly roped in my son as second GM.
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The same reason keeps coming up for why I don't want it to be non-repeating. Replays shouldn't be there to 'replay' one single story line.
You should do it for fun, to fill in a spot, or just to game with a bud or replay a failed scenario.
Not save it for EotT replays.
They should refresh yearly.
Moot point for me. I've used all three of mine already. .
-Rise of the Goblin Guild.. cause like I told Mike last year at MegaCon..the only way to make that more fun is getting rewarded for it again.
-Against the Living..cause I wanted to show off my mad dwarf in a new Lodge setting and the guys were trying to find something low I hadn't played yet. So I picked one of my favorite adventures that I knew EVERYONE would enjoy instead..(Truth be told.. I'd have played it without credit..cause.. Against the Living is fun)
-Fortress of the Nail. Cause..well.. if you had SEEN what my VC had down for the dioramas for the last 2 acts..hell YOU"D want to play in that! Trust me!
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I may have been the first person to have actually used the GM Star Replay award as I used it the first day it because available at GenCon. A friend and I were looking to play something on the 3rd slot of the first day of GenCon. Problem was, the only thing they were offering that we weren't already signed up to play later that week was Bonekeep, which I had already played, but my friend hadn't. So I used my Replay award to play Bonekeep with him. I have not done any other replays after that and have no special plans for their use. Likely I will use them in a similar manner as the first. I have considered saving them for another go at Eyes of the Ten, or for part III of The Quest for Perfection as I had been duped into playing that very early on in PFS without understanding I really wanted to play all 3 parts. I still haven't played the other two.
My personal preference would be to have it as a per year limit rather than lifetime. Since one of the primary benefits limiting replay is to motivate people to GM more, I don't think an AT MOST limit of replaying 5 mods a year is going to have an effect on that. As far as Metagaming issues are concerned, PFS currently allows you to play an adventure even after you have GMed it. If that isn't causing Metagaming problems, I don't see how letting DMs do it a few more times a year is going to change that.
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I thought that I might pipe in here. I find that anything that encourages a person to step up and GM is never a bad thing. While I will probably never use the replays unless it helps fill a table. I would want replays to recharge after a year because it encourages more GM and not less.
If a person feels that they will not be able to use them again they never get used and are instead hoarded. This is common. Because of the "I might need them for a really cool scenario coming up" syndrome type of thing. Plus it is "more" of a reward if they do reset.
I enjoy GM or I would not be where I am. I do not mind GMing something I have never played and want to encourage GMing something people have never played. Sometimes it is like pulling teeth to get people to understand it is ok to do so. This type of reward does encourage a person to do so. In my opinion that is a good thing!!!
Rewarding GMs motivates them to GM, but limiting their ability to replay does also.
I have been involved 3 major organized play campaigns. The first did not allow for ANY replaying of mods including not allowing someone who had DMed the mod already to ever play it. This had two effects. If you have already played a mod, since you couldn't play it again, you were happy to DM it, especially if there was nothing else you could do at that time. It did, however, make finding someone to DM a brand new mod difficult because no one wanted to 'eat' that mod so they could never play it (or get credit for it as DMs were not allowed to apply certs for adventures they had played to their characters). One presumes the reason they did this was to prevent Metagaming issues at the table.
The second campaign allowed infinite replay 9though you still couldn't apply certs to your characters for mods you GMed). This was a problem but not for the expected reasons. I generally found Metagaming to be an issue on only a few occasions. Usually, most people just took a back seat if they were replaying a mod again and let the new players make the major decisions. Occasionally you had issues with someone who was getting bored with a section of the mod and Metagamed to speed it up to a section of the mod they found less boring. This was annoying when it happened, but did not happen enough to be a major problem. What I did find was that less than 1/6th of the organized play community prefers to DM rather than play, so getting people to DM turned out to be much more difficult than the previous campaign. What we ended up with was a small dedicated core of people willing to DM who all eventually burnt out because no one else was willing to even occasionally step up and help out.
PFS takes the middle road between these two, and as far as I can tell, it works. I doubt allowing GMs to replay a few mods a year is going to change that.
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I don't have many opportunities to play, so I really don't see myself ever using stars for replay, even if they renew seasonally. I certainly don't need them for more GM credit. Despite that, I think the rule is helpful to the campaign. I don't think it would be harmful if it were changed to refresh each season, however....
I wonder how much of an uproar would occur if the campaign created a GM boon allowing your stars to refresh each season? GM at a convention or a game day receiving con support and your stars refresh for another season. It seems to me that the campaign has a juicy worm--why just give it away for goodwill? Set a hook in it.
I've only seen one person take advantage of the replays. He sat down to play and after the briefing was read realized he had played the scenario before. I asked him how many stars he had (one) and viola! dilemma solved.
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Watching this thread, I've seen a few GM's say they've used their credit to make tables happen. They could have played for no credit, but they decided to apply credit anyway.
It made me wonder... does being able to apply credit make someone more likely to sit for the table? Does it make the experience more fun an enjoyable?
For me personally, I'd probably use a pregen if I wanted to make a table. That way I wouldn't use extra resources for no benefit. I hadn't though about it until this thread, but I'd probably have more fun playing my own characters instead of pregens because I know them much better. I'd be more efficient on the battlefield, and I'd have a keen grasp on how to role play them. My roleplaying experiences with the generic pregens have been just that: generic.
This has made me rethink my inclination to use pregens. I'll be more inclined to use my actual characters when possible in the future.
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A bunch of folks in our group used them to replay Bonekeep, either because they got trounced at PaizoCon or they just wanted to play it when Mike Brock was in town. Haven't seen them sued otherwise.
I think we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, though. You get replays as a thank-you for GMing, and now people want even more benefit. Plus a Chronicle sheet with 100% benefit and no risk, plus no use of consumables. I'm all for rewarding people for GMing, but we need to be careful that the rewards don't become a primary motivator for GMing.
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/ raise dead.
Poop! I just found our my version of the PFSOP was the old version 5 with the Star reset at GenCon every year....
As the Star replay's are now a one-off benefit over my lifetime with PFS I will be more inclined to sit back and hoard them for my own benefit rather than helping fill tables, til now I have been using the stars to play on tables when numbers were low and a game wouldn't have run.
Do we know why the change was made?
I am not sure how I missed the updated guide to organised play but it's totally my fault - I am just embarrassed as I have to send emails to the people I have given incorrect information too, it's only a couple of GM's (I could have sworn the version numbers were the same).
The version numbers are the same; it's just that the one that was released before GenCon was the beta guide. (Clearly there needs to be a way of marking that in the future.)
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I used one to replay 4-08 The Cultist's Kiss. The first time I played it was with a pregen, and I didn't really get what was going on. The replay was a blast, we went about the whole thing completely differently and ran in to a bunch of characters I missed the first time.
I'm really happy they gave us the replays. GM perks are nice incentive, and at least for me, it made that table go off that otherwise would not have.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I will likely be burning at least two. I've GMed but not played <redacted> parts 2-3 and played <redacted> part 3, so with recent new players we're talking about running <redacted> to let them experience it, and have the coolness of getting the Axebeak. If we do I'll burn stars so Kodiak can have two options for "Mr Beaky". (Or the gnome horse lord will have the axebeak)
Likewise Rey 2.0 (my current blob of GM credit who will 'fix' some of my mistakes with my sorcerer) will likely burn a star playingor GMing <redacted> for everyone's favourite draconic familiar.
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I've used two, and I don't regret that. I'm hanging on to the last one and the other I'll be getting very soon, because I'll be playing the first two parts of the S5 3-parter on one Osirion character, but the other Osirion character has two separate build boons, so my policy for him is "no GM credit," and if the 3-part boon (which I won't see until after I've played parts 1 & 2) is worth putting on him, it'll be worth replaying for.
Hmm. Maybe. Or I could put him on slow as soon as he hits his next level ... well crap, now I have to think about it.
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I used my one Star to replay Siege of the Diamond City. I've played it and run it. To me it's a fun scenario and was more than worth it.
IMO the credits should be recharged yearly. It would add a great incentive for players to start GMing and give back to the Society. From the way the wind is blowing now it seems like it might be a possibility. Just maybe but an additional restriction on it so that you can't use it on anything you've used a star replay on before (to avoid abusing it on The Waking Rune and EotT).
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I am sure you all know this, but the replays you get for your stars renew at each Gen Con each year.
No, they don't.
Alternatively, campaign GMs who are recognized for their efforts by receiving GM stars (see page 37), may receive additional player or GM credit for a number of non-Tier 1 scenarios or sanctioned modules per GM star they have earned. For example, a three-star GM may select any three scenarios or sanctioned modules that she can then play or GM for credit one additional time each. For each of these adventures, she can thus earn a total of three Chronicle sheets, rather than the two normally allowed. When replaying a scenario with GM-star credit, the GM completing the Chronicle sheet will annotate the Notes section of the Chronicle sheet and add “GM Star Replay Credit × Star” to annotate the use of star credit replay. The GM Star Replay Credits are a once per star, lifetime benefit.
It seems like half this thread has been about people saying that and being corrected.
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I am sure you all know this, but the replays you get for your stars renew at each Gen Con each year.
Download the guide again. As mentioned up thread, that was the language in the Beta version of the 5.0 Guide to Organized Play, but it was revised before the official 5.0 version of the Guide was released. GM Star replays are currently one per star per lifetime, and they do not renew at GenCon.
EDIT - ninja'd by Patrick, and yes, people do seem very confused about this particular point.
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Even without the refreshing of star replays, I went ahead and used my first at a local shop. I went back and forth on it for the longest time but decided "what the hell?" and used a replay. On City of Strangers Pt 1, of all things. It was a fun scenario and a good time with the table, so I chalk that up as a win.
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Even without the refreshing of star replays, I went ahead and used my first at a local shop. I went back and forth on it for the longest time but decided "what the hell?" and used a replay. On City of Strangers Pt 1, of all things. It was a fun scenario and a good time with the table, so I chalk that up as a win.
An excellent choice.
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I went back and forth on it for the longest time but decided "what the hell?" and used a replay. On City of Strangers Pt 1, of all things. It was a fun scenario and a good time with the table, so I chalk that up as a win.
If I wasn't planning to use mine to re-run Eyes of the Ten, I'd probably be using them to rerun City of Strangers for credit - *LOVE* those scenarios!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I went back and forth on it for the longest time but decided "what the hell?" and used a replay. On City of Strangers Pt 1, of all things. It was a fun scenario and a good time with the table, so I chalk that up as a win.If I wasn't planning to use mine to re-run Eyes of the Ten, I'd probably be using them to rerun City of Strangers for credit - *LOVE* those scenarios!
Majuba,
I'm not accusing you of "doing it wrong" or anything i'm honestly a bit perplexed. Why do you want to burn stars to re-run City of Strangers? I've ran Nightmarch three times (I believe) for example, twice just for table credit, not PC credit because it's fun.
The things I'd run and burn my stars on, I'll freely admit, are to play to complete sets (for example) and maybe snag a goodie, like <redacted> for my blob of credit sorcerer.
Having missed our local group's city of strangers, I'm curious.
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Majuba,
I'm not accusing you of "doing it wrong" or anything i'm honestly a bit perplexed. Why do you want to burn stars to re-run City of Strangers? I've ran Nightmarch three times (I believe) for example, twice just for table credit, not PC credit because it's fun.
No offense taken Matthew - I have run City of Strangers many times for no credit - three times in the first week, another 3-4 times since (part 1 at least). Burning stars on it would just be for extra encouragement to find tables who hadn't experienced it before.
Having missed our local group's city of strangers, I'm curious.
Wait... does that mean you've *never* played it!? *boggle*
Tell me you're making it to PaizoCon - I'll run it for you there!
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That said, not everyone is terribly keen on re-running for no chronicle. I've got 93 tables worth of credit and it's not until the convention next month that I'm rerunning something without credit for the first time, and in that case primarily because it's a Special, and I need to run a certain number of Specials to get from 4 stars to 5. (Also because there's nothing else during that slot, so I might as well, etc etc. But you see my point.)
Now, in May I am re-running several things without credit because there's a convention that is being organized by someone I like, which I very much want to make happen. But in both cases there's something in it for me (after a fashion). Speaking as someone who really enjoys the "I can organize my own stuff" status of being an online GM, I don't mind re-running to make things happen (as evidenced), but according to my tracking spreadsheet there are currently 136 sanctioned things that I have neither run nor played--why would I want to double-up for no chronicle when there are new things out there? It just doesn't jive with my personal view of the activity.
Edit: Except for The Harrowing. That's about the only thing I've experienced that I would run over and over without credit. Because it's just that awesome. (But I probably would only want to do that for a set of players I knew and enjoyed, because if you sit four people who hate roleplay down at a table of The Harrowing, everyone is going away unhappy. But that's neither here nor there.)
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Well, I feel I have something to add, as of Saturday.
This Saturday, I was asked on short notice by my VL (who is out sick) to prepare a low-level scenario in case there was overflow/large amounts of walk-in new players (this is typically his role at our LGS).
Well, in an effort to not be completely cold for a group of new players, the logical choice was to run a scenario that I've run before (and had maps already made(!)). And the whole time preparing it, it certainly felt like I was getting screwed on the deal...I was missing out on a table that I wanted to play to run something for no credit.
Now, I prepared one scenario, and it turned out to be one that had been played before by one of the walk-ins. So I was shuffling through scenarios to find one that I had maps for.
Long story short, the group ran through Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment, everyone had a ball, and it was a really fun table for me to run. I can't complain about the experience.
But part of me can't shake the feeling of wasted effort while preparing to run without credit. It was odd. Prior to the game starting, it felt really, really stressful. Maybe I'm too spoiled by the (small) handful of GM Credit that I have received.
I can see where people would rather get credit for prepping and running a scenario, when the other option is to get no credit. (I did not have that option- -I've used my one star worth of replays as a player).
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But part of me can't shake the feeling of wasted effort while preparing to run without credit. It was odd. Prior to the game starting, it felt really, really stressful. Maybe I'm too spoiled by the (small) handful of GM Credit that I have received.
I've gotten to the point where I don't want GM credit. Because that means I don't get to actually play the character. I've taken to applying credit to low level PCs so I don't have to play the low levels where it's not as fun for me and turning down the high level credit so I can get more experience playing the 5-9s/7-11s that are much more rare for me.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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@Majuba Glad no offense was taken. I just wanted to make sure I was asking without leaving any possible offense in it. I'm sure it will roll around again, we've some new players who are hungry. :-)
@Jayson I understand how you feel. I'm always trying to recruit new players *and* GMs so I don't have to repeat as much. It can be hard to take the mindset of "Dying for your art" of getting no credit, just attaboys, and this is coming from someone who ran his first table in 2008. I've left that behind, for me half the fun is the funny voices, bad acting and even the confusion when the old scenario expects murder hoboing (Many Fortunes of Grandmaster torch, I'm looking at you). Hopefully the lack of credit won't sour you on it.*
@TOZ, I am almost there as well. I've 11 PCs now, about half of them are active (accounting errors or boredom keep my from playing them outside of the local group, and 12, 13, and 14 will likely be 'rebuilds' of previous PCs who I want to fix mistakes like the above).
*
Edit: Plus it is a fun time to hear "Wait, Matthew's GMing! I'll be there!"
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I've gotten to the point where I don't want GM credit. Because that means I don't get to actually play the character.
I've only got maybe half the amount of credit you have, and I've already got to a similar point. I'll fast-track characters through level 1, and sometimes level 2, but I'll probably start playing them by level 3 just to see how they work out. I did recently apply a GM credit to a level 6 character, but that was an exception (I wanted the character at level 7 so I could play him in a 7-11 scenario at this weekend's con, and the 5-9 scenarios scheduled at our local store were one he'd already played and one I planned to play with a different character).
I also think I do a better job the 2nd (or 3rd) time I GM a scenario, so I'm happy to run almost any of them again without a GM credit chronicle.
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I am sure you all know this, but the replays you get for your stars renew at each Gen Con each year.No, they don't.
Alternatively, campaign GMs who are recognized for their efforts by receiving GM stars (see page 37), may receive additional player or GM credit for a number of non-Tier 1 scenarios or sanctioned modules per GM star they have earned. For example, a three-star GM may select any three scenarios or sanctioned modules that she can then play or GM for credit one additional time each. For each of these adventures, she can thus earn a total of three Chronicle sheets, rather than the two normally allowed. When replaying a scenario with GM-star credit, the GM completing the Chronicle sheet will annotate the Notes section of the Chronicle sheet and add “GM Star Replay Credit × Star” to annotate the use of star credit replay. The GM Star Replay Credits are a once per star, lifetime benefit.It seems like half this thread has been about people saying that and being corrected.
Patrick, perhaps I am misreading this. On page 20 of the 5.0 Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play : " The GM Star Replay Credits renew each year on the first day of Pathfinder Society events at Gen Con."
I believe that they do renew every year. Ah It looks like I should read the second post you are replying to. Someone beat me to the post.
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I am sure you all know this, but the replays you get for your stars renew at each Gen Con each year.No, they don't.
Alternatively, campaign GMs who are recognized for their efforts by receiving GM stars (see page 37), may receive additional player or GM credit for a number of non-Tier 1 scenarios or sanctioned modules per GM star they have earned. For example, a three-star GM may select any three scenarios or sanctioned modules that she can then play or GM for credit one additional time each. For each of these adventures, she can thus earn a total of three Chronicle sheets, rather than the two normally allowed. When replaying a scenario with GM-star credit, the GM completing the Chronicle sheet will annotate the Notes section of the Chronicle sheet and add “GM Star Replay Credit × Star” to annotate the use of star credit replay. The GM Star Replay Credits are a once per star, lifetime benefit.It seems like half this thread has been about people saying that and being corrected.Patrick, perhaps I am misreading this. On page 20 of the 5.0 Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play : " The GM Star Replay Credits renew each year on the first day of Pathfinder Society events at Gen Con."
I believe that they do renew every year. Ah It looks like I should read the second post you are replying to. Someone beat me to the post.
You have the wrong version of the Guide. The one that says they renew every year was the beta release. See this thread for full backstory.
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I am sure you all know this, but the replays you get for your stars renew at each Gen Con each year.Download the guide again. As mentioned up thread, that was the language in the Beta version of the 5.0 Guide to Organized Play, but it was revised before the official 5.0 version of the Guide was released. GM Star replays are currently one per star per lifetime, and they do not renew at GenCon.
EDIT - ninja'd by Patrick, and yes, people do seem very confused about this particular point.
Ferius thank you for the clarification.