Nobody said anything about "misleading". I'm talking about just making the info about who's hiring them on a "need-to-know" basis, where only I, as the GM, need to know.
Actually I had done so in the post you quoted and seemingly replied to. I took the fact that you had quoted my post as a hint that you were replying to my post about using misdirection...I know silly of me to make that assumption
Goblin Squad Member
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If I SAD you I can demand a portion of between 0 and 100% of what you are carrying.
I don't believe I've ever seen a developer specify whether you can specify what you want. If anyone has a cite I'd appreciate reading it.
If they haven't then I'm pretty sure the whole sentiment that the bandit can set a percentage as his demand is in question. I don't think we know yet if it will work like is being imagined in these case studies.
This is the most specific info we have been given on what you can demand from SADs I'm aware of.
"Outlaws use a new mechanic we are working on developing called stand and deliver, which allows the Outlaw to demand money from their victim through a trade window."
Oh wow, I never saw that quote. So it is money then, not loot. Otherwise it would've said loot. Alright.
I wouldn't make any assumptions about what is and isn't included in the realm of SAD.
But assumptions is all I have Daniel. Assumptions ALL I HAVE. ;-((
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is the most specific info we have been given on what you can demand from SADs I'm aware of.
"Outlaws use a new mechanic we are working on developing called stand and deliver, which allows the Outlaw to demand money from their victim through a trade window."
Then on the other hand there is this quote:
Conversely, player bandits should have to decide whether attacking just anyone is worth it, and whether it's better to make a surprise attack or actually try to extort goods from the traveler first (if they stand and deliver, it triggers none of the consequences).
(emphasis added)
Maybe they like having us discuss the merits of one way as compared to the other. I for one wouldn't mind a clarification.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If a raid of an outpost steals deposited resources, then it stands to reason that those same resources can be looted from a caravan that has left the outpost to bring those resources to market.
I'm guessing, and again it stands to reason, that raiding a caravan uses a nearly identical system to raiding an outpost. All a caravan actually is is the middle step in the resource gathering process (Outpost to Caravan to Settlement).
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Goblin Squad Member
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While SADs could be the equivalent of a raid, it's not obvious that it will be or should be.
I would like for the option to SAD for money to exist. As I gather, not all caravans will be part of the outpost-settlement gig.
I like to think of SAD as a ransom with the goods held hostage: pay up or lose your life and your wares. This view is more in line with how I think of bandits.
Confiscating a transport from an outpost as you describe is something that should be possible during a feud IMO (or as a consequence if the merchant rejects the generous offer to pay ransom for safe passage, or at the cost of losing reputation).
The way I envision bandits, they'd be more likely to take the coin, gems, jewellry and pocket watches of the people in the caravan than to demand 20% of their cargo of roof tiles.
In contrast, hired raiders may go for the cargo and skip the odd valuable since their employer pays them well to get those roof tiles or whatever is being carried (during a feud or a war).
I think there should be a difference between banditry and raiding.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"Outlaws use a new mechanic we are working on developing called stand and deliver, which allows the Outlaw to demand money from their victim through a trade window."
There's something lopsided about this equation. If someone pays a SAD in coin, that coin becomes the bandit's permanently; no bandit will ever pay a SAD himself, it seems to me.
Thus there's no way, other than selling goods or services, to get money *from* a bandit. With little-to-no death penalty, a trash-except-for-threads-equipped bandit will have nothing to fear from retribution by a SAD-target's friends.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"Outlaws use a new mechanic we are working on developing called stand and deliver, which allows the Outlaw to demand money from their victim through a trade window."There's something lopsided about this equation. If someone pays a SAD in coin, that coin becomes the bandit's permanently; no bandit will ever pay a SAD himself, it seems to me.
Thus there's no way, other than selling goods or services, to get money *from* a bandit. With little-to-no death penalty, a trash-except-for-threads-equipped bandit will have nothing to fear from retribution by a SAD-target's friends.
Yup. I was thinking that maybe each time a bandit does/participates in a SAD, he gains a flag where 10% of his coin drops on his corpse when he dies.
But that would be too easily exploited; bandits would just bank money on alts. My gut feeling is that if they can take coin, but don't drop coin, there's balance missing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I usually don't chime in on PvP issues, but I don't think every game mechanic can have a matching balancing factor. The balance or trade off may be there, but not always a "matching" one, such as is in this case, coin for coin.
By SADing, bandits can take goods or coin without potentially forfeiting same, but they also provide content for those who love to PvP and will use the role of mercenary or caravan guard to quench that thirst. Certainly, there's a risk of loss if you're a merchant, but overland transport (instead of a game-wide auction house system) was part of the designer's intent for increasing player interaction. That risk comes with potential profit, as well as providing other players (mercenaries and guards) with content. If the cost of guards is the problem, I would hope any merchant's settlement will have members willing to guard their settlement's shipments for free, or those wishing to play vigilantes could offer their services for free in the hopes of catching real criminals in the act.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This may have been raised already however in case it hasnt.
If I SAD you I can demand a portion of between 0 and 100% of what you are carrying. I however also expect to be able to specify items that I want
example you are carrying 100 iron bars and 100 planks. I expect to be able to demand iron bars in payment and not wood
Probably non controversial so far...so here comes the kicker
I as a bandit notice you are wearing a really nice breastplate with a stunning filigree design...it would look much better on me though I am sure
I should be able to still demand it as part of the SAD settlement EVEN if it is threaded. After all you can always refuse the sad in which case I can kill you but can't loot it
I wouldn't call the first bit non controversial. I for one would not like SAD to be able to go to 100% (and not 0% either, or it's just free rep with 0% SAD demands). A 100% SAD means there's literally no reason to hand over your stuff instead of fighting (your corpse would keep your threaded ~25% if you died, so a death would mean 75% loss opposed to the SAD's 100%). That means that a 100% SAD is just a license to fight (and probably kill, as the SAD user picks his odds of winning) any character out in the wilds. It's against GW's wishes for anyone to get the ability to kill others indiscriminately, and 100% SAD's would do just that (or at least, allow you to kill any other character while not losing rep at all).
I'd be okay with SADs for threaded items, but only as long as bandits can't do 100% SADs (even 75% SAD is too much in my book, as that's still a no-brainer for choosing to fight in 99% of scenarios, and if SADs always lead to characters dying then it doesn't seem to be working as intended).
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Goblin Squad Member
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"Outlaws use a new mechanic we are working on developing called stand and deliver, which allows the Outlaw to demand money from their victim through a trade window."There's something lopsided about this equation. If someone pays a SAD in coin, that coin becomes the bandit's permanently; no bandit will ever pay a SAD himself, it seems to me.
Thus there's no way, other than selling goods or services, to get money *from* a bandit. With little-to-no death penalty, a trash-except-for-threads-equipped bandit will have nothing to fear from retribution by a SAD-target's friends.
You could SAD him. No, not everybody can SAD, but if you want to get your coin back that's the path you'd need to walk (or have somebody else walk for you!)
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Goblin Squad Member
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You could SAD him. No, not everybody can SAD, but if you want to get your coin back that's the path you'd need to walk (or have somebody else walk for you!)
If you need someone to SAD for you, the UNC is available for hire. For a nominal fee we will get back a portion of your stolen goods or coin. ;)
On a serious note, the only time a SAD of 100% would make sense for the victim is if the item degradation would be more costly than the current lootable items you are carrying. This is not likely the case for most merchants or even adventurers, but high level adventurers with top quality (value) or rare gear I could see repair costs exceed loot value.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If the proceeds from successful SADs is restricted to coin it would better keep powerful weapons crafted in High Rep settlements from falling into CE hands. Bandits could only loot items if they don't SAD, or if their SAD demand is refused.
If the quality of goods is predicated by the rep tier of the manufacturing settlement then this might be a critical consideration.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If the proceeds from successful SADs is restricted to coin it would better keep powerful weapons crafted in High Rep settlements from falling into CE hands. Bandits could only loot items if they don't SAD, or if their SAD demand is refused.
If the quality of goods is predicated by the rep tier of the manufacturing settlement then this might be a critical consideration.
This assumes that those CE hands are not being filled with high quality gear from their own alt company crafters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Being, I believe that, even if CE characters living in a low-tier settlement were to get high-powered gear from stealing, they could not use it any better than what they have; your training puts a ceiling on the strength of weapons/items that you use.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This assumes that those CE hands are not being filled with high quality gear from their own alt company crafters.If the proceeds from successful SADs is restricted to coin it would better keep powerful weapons crafted in High Rep settlements from falling into CE hands. Bandits could only loot items if they don't SAD, or if their SAD demand is refused.
If the quality of goods is predicated by the rep tier of the manufacturing settlement then this might be a critical consideration.
Gear is only as important as your ability to use it. If you don't have access to Abilities that utilize Tier 3 Keywords, then Gear with Tier 3 Keywords won't do you a lot of good.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This assumes that those CE hands are not being filled with high quality gear from their own alt company crafters.If the proceeds from successful SADs is restricted to coin it would better keep powerful weapons crafted in High Rep settlements from falling into CE hands. Bandits could only loot items if they don't SAD, or if their SAD demand is refused.
If the quality of goods is predicated by the rep tier of the manufacturing settlement then this might be a critical consideration.
I still strongly feel like a lot of the gear players use should be associated with alignment, and making gears for an alignment should drive you toward that alignment. That's the best way I can see avoiding a situation where all dedicated crafters are lawful good.
For instance, in order to reach their maximum potential evil arrows need to be poisoned, while good ones need to be blessed, and neutral ones need some kind of enchantment. Like I suggested with settlements this might not work off the 9 point system but the 200 million + point system, so there is a bit of overlap before you are locked out of a certain ammo type.
On the merchant side of things chaotic merchants should have access to the best smuggling options and transporting certain things such as slaves or some of the materials specific to evil items would be an evil action.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It feels very strange to me to have gear be alignment-based. Outside of things like particularly nasty poisons or Holy/Unholy style enchantments a sword/axe/spiked chain or whatever tends to be neutral. I would also favor seeing additions such as enchantments and poisons being applied separately from initial item construction such as it could be the same long-trained individual doing both or that the item passes through many hands to reach a final state.
I would hope Gear/Alignment restrictions are at around the level that the tabletop rules would permit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I get that it's a strange concept, but it's a solution to a strange problem, which is that otherwise all crafters will be lawful-good. Why wouldn't they? Every major kingdom will have a LG crafting town. If they are more than one step from LG then they will just make it an unofficial part of their kingdom in terms of game mechanics, but very official in terms of the meta-game.
There needs to be a solution to that. Making alignment based items a big deal solves that problem.
Also I don't think making a ton of lawful-good arrows should nessicarily make you lawful good either. I just think that the recipes for lawful good arrows should come from settlements within 1 step of lawful and good, and that you should need to be within a step of lawful good to make them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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SAD needs to include gear carried in the backpack and non threaded items.
I dont see very many crafters being LG or CE, I see most of them being as close to TN as possible. The simple fact is that the more neutral a character is the large possible player base they have with the exception of company/settlement crafting alts. Those who craft in order to make profit dont want to lock themselves into a situation where they cannot sell to one customer or the other.
I also would not expect to see alignment restricted gear unless it makes sense. A +5 Vorpal Sword should be able to be used by anyone as there is no reason why not. A Holy Avenger in the hands of an evil person is a +2 cold longsword that gives a penalty due to the holy property. So excepting items like that that are an alignment for a reason, there is no reason to restrict gear. I do imagine that a lot of folks will carry around alignment specific weapons as well as bane weapons.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I get that it's a strange concept, but it's a solution to a strange problem, which is that otherwise all crafters will be lawful-good. Why wouldn't they? Every major kingdom will have a LG crafting town. If they are more than one step from LG then they will just make it an unofficial part of their kingdom in terms of game mechanics, but very official in terms of the meta-game.
There needs to be a solution to that. Making alignment based items is a big deal.
Also I don't think making a ton of lawful-good arrows should nessicarily make you lawful good either. I just think that the recipes for lawful good arrows should come from settlements within 1 step of lawful and good, and that you should need to be lawful and good to make them.
I think you might be neglecting transportation costs in that assessment. The CG settlements that support characters that behave in a manner such that they must have CG alignment will probably still benefit from creating things locally.
I hope that settlement sites are so rare and hard to get that it takes a while for any kingdom to want to turn one into the only industrial center it has.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If items are not alignment specific why would they not make a LG character in a LG town, get those bonuses, and then sell off all their LG alignment stuff to whatever alignment they feel like selling to. For instance say you are a LG crafter from Brighthaven? If you are missing out on the evil audience because the game blocks evil players from entering a NG town, then you just take your stuff to Phaeros and sell it there.
If they aren't blocked from entering our town, and we don't decree that they can't, then evil characters can come right to Brighhaven and buy from you.
I'm just saying. It's -2400 evil points to kill an a good character. It's -16 to kill a character with -5000 alignment.
It seems to me as if that will lead to a whole ton of good aligned crafters and merchants unless there are evil things you can do outside of combat that make going evil worthwhile for you.
If your evil comrades need you to sacrifice a virgin to make their sword so they can go murder and oppress, then there is your reason.
I get that it's a strange concept, but it's a solution to a strange problem, which is that otherwise all crafters will be lawful-good. Why wouldn't they? Every major kingdom will have a LG crafting town. If they are more than one step from LG then they will just make it an unofficial part of their kingdom in terms of game mechanics, but very official in terms of the meta-game.
There needs to be a solution to that. Making alignment based items is a big deal.
Also I don't think making a ton of lawful-good arrows should nessicarily make you lawful good either. I just think that the recipes for lawful good arrows should come from settlements within 1 step of lawful and good, and that you should need to be lawful and good to make them.
By all means cram your major crafting facilities all into the one town. I wonder which will be our first target when we go to war? While it may seem superficially attractive it means in effect that killing one settlement cripples your war effort.
Give me one town where all your high end crafting is done and I can flood it with people to stop your logistics dead. This is a really basic strategic error that you are suggesting. -shrug- Ah well why should I care
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Goblin Squad Member
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I get that it's a strange concept, but it's a solution to a strange problem, which is that otherwise all crafters will be lawful-good. Why wouldn't they? Every major kingdom will have a LG crafting town. If they are more than one step from LG then they will just make it an unofficial part of their kingdom in terms of game mechanics, but very official in terms of the meta-game.
There needs to be a solution to that. Making alignment based items is a big deal.
Also I don't think making a ton of lawful-good arrows should nessicarily make you lawful good either. I just think that the recipes for lawful good arrows should come from settlements within 1 step of lawful and good, and that you should need to be lawful and good to make them.
By all means cram your major crafting facilities all into the one town. I wonder which will be our first target when we go to war? While it may seem superficially attractive it means in effect that killing one settlement cripples your war effort.
Give me one town where all your high end crafting is done and I can flood it with people to stop your logistics dead. This is a really basic strategic error that you are suggesting. -shrug- Ah well why should I care
If that were to happen, you line up a bunch of good aligned characters and have your crafters SAD and then murder them until they are within one step of your other town's alignment. Then they go to your other towns and work there until you can build a new LG trade center.
You can keep the other town's crafting facilities ready as back up. There's just no reason to use them unless the LG town is out of commission aside from the few guys that make the rarely needed evil aligned items for your necromancers and such.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If items are not alignment specific why would they not make a LG character in a LG town, get those bonuses, and then sell off all their LG alignment stuff to whatever alignment they feel like selling to. For instance say you are a LG crafter from Brighthaven? If you are missing out on the evil audience because the game blocks evil players from entering a NG town, then you just take your stuff to Phaeros and sell it there.
If they aren't blocked from entering our town, and we don't decree that they can't, then evil characters can come right to Brighhaven and buy from you.
I'm just saying. It's -2400 evil points to kill an a good character. It's -16 to kill a character with -5000 alignment.
It seems to me as if that will lead to a whole ton of good aligned crafters and merchants unless there are evil things you can do outside of combat that make going evil worthwhile for you.
If your evil comrades need you to sacrifice a virgin to make their sword so they can go murder and oppress, then there is your reason.
I do see that there will be LG crafters, but i would like to be that most of those on the LG/CE sides will be dedicated crafter alts that supply goods for a specific company and are not (in general) characters with a focus on merchanting. Sure they might do some of that, but that wont be their focus.
Remember that everytime you move goods, there is risk involved with it. more so if people know you regularly move goods from x city to y city. If they find out when you typically move goods you can bet your butt they will have people to rob you, even if its at 3 Am in the morning.
So if you want to have the greatest amount of people attracted you set up a neutral town with a decently low rep requirement to enter. What you will get is more people looking to buy goods, In addition to that you will get more people there to SELL raw materials that they have gathered. As long as that neutral town makes sure that people are not getting robbed/killed right outside of town where do you think people will go to buy goods?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If items are not alignment specific why would they not make a LG character in a LG town, get those bonuses, and then sell off all their LG alignment stuff to whatever alignment they feel like selling to. For instance say you are a LG crafter from Brighthaven? If you are missing out on the evil audience because the game blocks evil players from entering a NG town, then you just take your stuff to Phaeros and sell it there.
If they aren't blocked from entering our town, and we don't decree that they can't, then evil characters can come right to Brighhaven and buy from you.
I'm just saying. It's -2400 evil points to kill an a good character. It's -16 to kill a character with -5000 alignment.
It seems to me as if that will lead to a whole ton of good aligned crafters and merchants unless there are evil things you can do outside of combat that make going evil worthwhile for you.
If your evil comrades need you to sacrifice a virgin to make their sword so they can go murder and oppress, then there is your reason.
Why not? Nonzero transportation costs.
Why should I deadhead to the CG settlement, load up on a double load of wood, take that back to the LG settlement (Which has meanwhile collected two loads of iron), spend two units of time making two hundred halberds, and then run a load of halberds to the CG settlement, rather than taking one load of iron to the CG settlement, returning with one load of wood, and then selling all of the axes locally, faster?
Whatever advantages LG settlements have, I don't think they will constitute "Strictly better for everyone to perform all production here."
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I get that it's a strange concept, but it's a solution to a strange problem, which is that otherwise all crafters will be lawful-good. Why wouldn't they? Every major kingdom will have a LG crafting town. If they are more than one step from LG then they will just make it an unofficial part of their kingdom in terms of game mechanics, but very official in terms of the meta-game.
There needs to be a solution to that. Making alignment based items is a big deal.
Also I don't think making a ton of lawful-good arrows should nessicarily make you lawful good either. I just think that the recipes for lawful good arrows should come from settlements within 1 step of lawful and good, and that you should need to be lawful and good to make them.
By all means cram your major crafting facilities all into the one town. I wonder which will be our first target when we go to war? While it may seem superficially attractive it means in effect that killing one settlement cripples your war effort.
Give me one town where all your high end crafting is done and I can flood it with people to stop your logistics dead. This is a really basic strategic error that you are suggesting. -shrug- Ah well why should I care
If that were to happen, you line up a bunch of good aligned characters and have your crafters SAD and then murder them until they are within one step of your other town's alignment. Then they go to your other towns and work there until you can build a new LG trade center.
You can keep the other town's crafting facilities ready as back up. There's just no reason to use them unless the LG town is out of commission aside from the few guys that make the rarely needed evil aligned items for your necromancers and such.
Each settlement has a limited number of building slots. Are you really going to maintain unused facilities in these towns? Sorry this is just a clueless solution. We already know from what they have said that you aren't going to be able to have every building you want and you think you are going to have space for redundant buildings.
On top of that you seem to be implying that exploiting game mechanics is suddenly alright. Everytime I have said I we will use game mechanics to the full I have had people like you pointing at me and going "GW will be banning exploiters". Can't have it both ways Andius.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Decius, from my (very limited) experience in EVE, I expect Andius is considering the probability of high-end crafters establishing themselves in LG Settlements and simply creating Buy Orders for the mats they need. They won't really care what the transportation costs are because they won't be doing the transporting. They'll just order the mats they need, craft what they want to craft, and sell it, all right there in LG-town.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think all crafters will be LG.
The main benefit to LG is increased combat power through superior training.
A secondary benefit to LG is that people who attack you lose more Lawful and Good when they kill you. A fair point, which attracts crafters to LG due to more protection from attack, but I don't think it's enough incentive to necessitate every crafter becoming LG.
Another consideration is the same old balance of supply and demand. If all the crafters are LG (the supply of Chaotic crafters is low and the demand for Chaotic crafters stays the same), I bet those Chaotic settlements would pay much more money for their crafters than the LG settlement would; it'll get to the point that some crafters are persuaded to become Chaotic for enough incentive pay or w/e needs to be done, and an equilibrium will be reached.
In addition, some larger groups will simply say "We need some of you people who play crafters to become Evil to populate our LE settlements." I think that someone linked to a larger group isn't going to give that up just for the extra Good loss for any attackers.
I think that LG settlements will have a higher crafter-to-warrior ratio than a LE or CG settlement. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Each settlement has a limited number of building slots. Are you really going to maintain unused facilities in these towns? Sorry this is just a clueless solution. We already know from what they have said that you aren't going to be able to have every building you want and you think you are going to have space for redundant buildings.
On top of that you seem to be implying that exploiting game mechanics is suddenly alright. Everytime I have said I we will use game mechanics to the full I have had people like you pointing at me and going "GW will be banning exploiters". Can't have it both ways Andius.
So the viable alternative is building crafting facilities in all towns and then using the less efficient ones just because they are there? Doesn't seem like a smart move to me.
I suppose it does depend though. If facilities are like they are in most games where one facility can be used for unlimited output, then my way is more efficient. If it does it the EVE way where you have limited production capability at each facility I guess you could make it work, though the LG town will still be the preferred place to create things.
And it's not exploitation. It's min maxing. Those are very different things.
@Decius transportation costs aren't 0 but there are likely to be central tradehubs that most items get moved through anyway. Think Jita. I forsee those central tradehubs all being LG without reasons to not make them so. They will already be your most highly guarded areas which will make combating corruption and unrest easier.
@Decius, from my (very limited) experience in EVE, I expect Andius is considering the probability of high-end crafters establishing themselves in LG Settlements and simply creating Buy Orders for the mats they need. They won't really care what the transportation costs are because they won't be doing the transporting. They'll just order the mats they need, craft what they want to craft, and sell it, all right there in LG-town.
I think you might have misunderstood buy orders in Eve.
Buy orders have a range if you have 5 systems in a row
A B C D E
and you are crafting in system A you can choose to set your buy order range for 1 to 5 systems visibility. If I set 5 people coming into system E can sell to my buy order because it is within the range I set of 5 systems. However the material they sold me is still in system E and I have to collect it and return it to A.
If I want it all to arrive in A with no effort I have to restrict my buy order range to system A which means only gatherers with the material I want that actually come to A can sell against my buy order.
Or possibly I just misunderstood what you are getting at
I don't think all crafters will be LG.
The main benefit to LG is increased combat power through superior training.
They said the training will be superior in LG/High Rep settlements, but they didn't specify "combat" training. I think if crafters benefit from joining LG settlements, it's going to be a VERY boring game.
Each settlement has a limited number of building slots. Are you really going to maintain unused facilities in these towns? Sorry this is just a clueless solution. We already know from what they have said that you aren't going to be able to have every building you want and you think you are going to have space for redundant buildings.
On top of that you seem to be implying that exploiting game mechanics is suddenly alright. Everytime I have said I we will use game mechanics to the full I have had people like you pointing at me and going "GW will be banning exploiters". Can't have it both ways Andius.
So the viable alternative is building crafting facilities in all towns and then using the less efficient ones just because they are there? Don't seem like a smart move to me.
I suppose it does depend though. If facilities are like they are in most games where one facility can be used for unlimited output, then my way is more efficient. If it does it the EVE way where you have limited production capability at each facility I guess you could make it work, though the LG town will still be the preferred place to create things.
And it's not exploitation. It's min maxing. Those are very different things.
@Decius transportation costs aren't 0 but there are likely to be central tradehubs that most items get moved through anyway. Think Jita. I forsee those central tradehubs all being LG without reasons to not make them so. They will already be your most highly guarded areas which will make combating corruption and unrest easier.
Obviously you dont create the crafting facilities in all towns. What you might have is a high end forge setup in one town, a high end carpenter building in another, a high end alchemist place in another. That way taking out any one town only seriously affects one type of production instead of all types of production.
From what we know there will be two types of building plot major and minor and major will be few in number. These are what I imagine you will need for high end training or crafting facilities I would not be surprised if there was only about 5 or so major plots to ensure settlements had to make choices. Indeed centres of excellence for certain crafting types fits in well with a lot of historical and fantasy milieus take venetian glass or toledo steel from our own world for example.
The exploitation I was referring to was gaming the alignment system by lining up people for your crafters to sad not using an lg settlement to craft
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Qallz, good point, I was making a total assumption there. However, who needs the highest tier crafting in a settlement that can't even effectively use the items you'd produce with it?
Example: You can make up to q300 swords. The vast majority of your settlement, full of CG players, can only use up to q275 gear. Why would you spend extra resources to make q300 blades when your buyers will want the cheaper q275?
If they do restrict crafter training by settlement alignment, that will mean all the people who are in it only to "make the best swords ever" will be LG. The people looking to maximize their profits will go where the money is.
@Qallz, good point, I was making a total assumption there. However, who needs the highest tier crafting in a settlement that can't even effectively use the items you'd produce with it?
Example: You can make up to q300 swords. The vast majority of your settlement, full of CG players, can only use up to q275 gear. Why would you spend extra resources to make q300 blades when your buyers will want the cheaper q275?
If they do restrict crafter training by settlement alignment, that will mean all the people who are in it only to "make the best swords ever" will be LG. The people looking to maximize their profits will go where the money is.
If all the best crafters and combat-focused players get big advantages like that for playing LG, the game will devolve into a two faction game: LG vs. CE. LG will win of course, turning it into a one-faction game where everyone holds hands and never ride their horses over the speed limit.
If all the best crafters and combat-focused players get big advantages like that for playing LG, the game will devolve into a two faction game: LG vs. CE. LG will win of course, turning it into a one-faction game where everyone holds hands and never ride their horses over the speed limit.@Qallz, good point, I was making a total assumption there. However, who needs the highest tier crafting in a settlement that can't even effectively use the items you'd produce with it?
Example: You can make up to q300 swords. The vast majority of your settlement, full of CG players, can only use up to q275 gear. Why would you spend extra resources to make q300 blades when your buyers will want the cheaper q275?
If they do restrict crafter training by settlement alignment, that will mean all the people who are in it only to "make the best swords ever" will be LG. The people looking to maximize their profits will go where the money is.
As most people who end up playing this will not care about alignment except which is most advantageous I see no reason to suspect so. Wars will be fought mostly for other reasons than alignment because most people will not be role players that end up playing frankly most won't even have a clue that there is even a table top version. It will merely be use the mechanics to the best effect to fight for domination
As most people who end up playing this will not care about alignment except which is most advantageous I see no reason to suspect so. Wars will be fought mostly for other reasons than alignment because most people will not be role players that end up playing frankly most won't even have a clue that there is even a table top version. It will merely be use the mechanics to the best effect to fight for dominationIf all the best crafters and combat-focused players get big advantages like that for playing LG, the game will devolve into a two faction game: LG vs. CE. LG will win of course, turning it into a one-faction game where everyone holds hands and never ride their horses over the speed limit.@Qallz, good point, I was making a total assumption there. However, who needs the highest tier crafting in a settlement that can't even effectively use the items you'd produce with it?
Example: You can make up to q300 swords. The vast majority of your settlement, full of CG players, can only use up to q275 gear. Why would you spend extra resources to make q300 blades when your buyers will want the cheaper q275?
If they do restrict crafter training by settlement alignment, that will mean all the people who are in it only to "make the best swords ever" will be LG. The people looking to maximize their profits will go where the money is.
I was talking more about Rep than alignment, though the two seem to go hand and hand according to Ryan Dancey.
I was talking more about Rep than alignment, though the two seem to go hand and hand according to Ryan Dancey.As most people who end up playing this will not care about alignment except which is most advantageous I see no reason to suspect so. Wars will be fought mostly for other reasons than alignment because most people will not be role players that end up playing frankly most won't even have a clue that there is even a table top version. It will merely be use the mechanics to the best effect to fight for dominationIf all the best crafters and combat-focused players get big advantages like that for playing LG, the game will devolve into a two faction game: LG vs. CE. LG will win of course, turning it into a one-faction game where everyone holds hands and never ride their horses over the speed limit.@Qallz, good point, I was making a total assumption there. However, who needs the highest tier crafting in a settlement that can't even effectively use the items you'd produce with it?
Example: You can make up to q300 swords. The vast majority of your settlement, full of CG players, can only use up to q275 gear. Why would you spend extra resources to make q300 blades when your buyers will want the cheaper q275?
If they do restrict crafter training by settlement alignment, that will mean all the people who are in it only to "make the best swords ever" will be LG. The people looking to maximize their profits will go where the money is.
Reputation is largely irrelevant there appears to be plenty of ways to kill who you want when you want without needing to worry about it from our point of view. My only concern about either system is gating of skills potentially.
Once in game I believe from everything that has been said that a group like mine can just ignore them because they won't be an issue
I was talking more about Rep than alignment, though the two seem to go hand and hand according to Ryan Dancey.As most people who end up playing this will not care about alignment except which is most advantageous I see no reason to suspect so. Wars will be fought mostly for other reasons than alignment because most people will not be role players that end up playing frankly most won't even have a clue that there is even a table top version. It will merely be use the mechanics to the best effect to fight for dominationIf all the best crafters and combat-focused players get big advantages like that for playing LG, the game will devolve into a two faction game: LG vs. CE. LG will win of course, turning it into a one-faction game where everyone holds hands and never ride their horses over the speed limit.@Qallz, good point, I was making a total assumption there. However, who needs the highest tier crafting in a settlement that can't even effectively use the items you'd produce with it?
Example: You can make up to q300 swords. The vast majority of your settlement, full of CG players, can only use up to q275 gear. Why would you spend extra resources to make q300 blades when your buyers will want the cheaper q275?
If they do restrict crafter training by settlement alignment, that will mean all the people who are in it only to "make the best swords ever" will be LG. The people looking to maximize their profits will go where the money is.
Reputation is largely irrelevant there appears to be plenty of ways to kill who you want when you want without needing to worry about it from our point of view. My only concern about either system is gating of skills potentially.
Once in game I believe from everything that has been said that a group like mine can just ignore them because they won't be an issue
Yea, reputation is totally irrelevant, unless you want to not suck.
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@Decius, from my (very limited) experience in EVE, I expect Andius is considering the probability of high-end crafters establishing themselves in LG Settlements and simply creating Buy Orders for the mats they need. They won't really care what the transportation costs are because they won't be doing the transporting. They'll just order the mats they need, craft what they want to craft, and sell it, all right there in LG-town.
Not caring how expensive transportation is because you are paying someone else for it is the opposite of good business.
It is also bad business to set up shop under the exact same conditions as all of your competition when there's an empty niche that is very close. The first person to set up manufacturing in the CG settlement has roughly the same total raw material costs, delivered, roughly the same production costs, and essentially no transportation costs to the CG settlement; he can offer the lowest price there and still have a higher margin.
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Yea, reputation is totally irrelevant, unless you want...
There is no reason to be low rep, you can kill freely till you are covered in blood from head to toe you just need to do it in the right way. I predict from day one we will be in wars and feuds and will start butchering our way across the river kingdoms....that really is all it takes.