Goblin Squad Member
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I think thats exactly it bluddwolf. They dont want people going around killing everyone at any time a la EvE in the lower and zero sec areas, however this being a sandbox you need to provide an element of danger to merchants and people traveling around, and SAD is the tool they are using to try to do that.
remember that not only doesnt pop you with flags as bad as murder, but it gives the bandit his MAX daily rep gain, so it allows a bandit to not only ply his trade, but keep his rep up. With rep playing a large part in player behavior SAD will become the go to mechanic vs just killing everyone.
I also think that for a lot of folks walking away robbed wont piss them off as much as being pk'd then looted. I mean sure in general the outcome is the same, but the feeling of it is different.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Will a SAD trigger everyone in the vicinity to see the character issuing the SAD as hostile?TBD. Seems weird to me though.
So here is my understanding of how we are currently being told SAD's work.
It originally worked like this:
Long-Term Flags
We've also added a number of voluntary PvP flags players can activate on themselves so they can engage in PvP within a specific alignment-defined role. The point of these is to encourage players to announce their intent, such as Outlaws intending to rob people, so other players can act accordingly rather than players being unable to be proactive in their own defense.
• Long-term PvP flags will be activated through UI on the character window.
• They put an icon next to the character's name that denotes they are PvP active and what flag they have.
• Each of these flags has an alignment requirement to activate.
• Only one of these flags can be active at any time.
• Characters may only activate one of these flags when out of combat. Flagging is a thirty second process, during which there is some manner of visual signifier that they are activating the flag (flashing name, icon, etc.).
• These flags work like other PvP flags: A person targeting the character unprovoked gains the Involved flag and does not lose any reputation or alignment upon fighting/killing the target.*
• All of these flags have bonuses that increase (up to a maximum) over time logged in while flagged. Certain actions can reset this bonus without removing the flag (as detailed within the entry). If the player loses/deliberately disables and reactivates the flag, it resets the bonuses to the minimum.Outlaw (Chaotic)
The Outlaw flag is for players who want to rob other players, commit acts of banditry, etc. It can be used by chaotic evil players to be brigands, or by chaotic good players to be Robin Hood-style robbers. Outlaws use a new mechanic we are working on developing called stand and deliver, which allows the Outlaw to demand money from their victim through a trade window. If the victim refuses, the Outlaw gets to carry out his threats of force without losing reputation.• This flag cannot be disabled while Attacker, Criminal, or Heinous (or their 24-hour versions) are active.
• While Outlaw is active:
- The player gets more loot when searching PvP kills that goes up each hour up to ten hours.
- The player gets a bonus to Stealth that goes up each hour up to ten hours.
- These bonuses reset to the minimum upon gaining the Attacker flag unless the target was offered and rejected a stand-and-deliver trade within five minutes of the attack.
- If the victim was offered and rejected stand and deliver, the Outlaw loses no reputation for killing the target within five minutes of the rejection.
• If the victim and Outlaw completed a stand-and-deliver trade, the Outlaw loses double reputation for killing the target within 20 minutes. (If they pay, you should let them go.)
- When an Outlaw receives a ransom from stand and deliver, they get reputation up to a daily max.
Then the Outlaw flag was removed.
The alignment-based flags have been removed in favor of the "for the cause" flags of factional combat. Benefits associated with the Enforcer and Champion flags are now tied to alignment score and to factional membership, and the Assassin and Stand and Deliver special abilities have been moved to skill-based functionality, rather than flag-based functionality. The Criminal and Heinous flags remain, however, so that individuals who wish to police the game-world and punish evil or lawless characters can do so (another interesting area for PvP combat).
So based on the above quotes. There is no mention of SADs negating any of the alignment penalties or other flags that would be incurred during the process of the SAD including a criminal flag if the SAD is breaking a settlement law, and evil drift / the attacker flag if you attack them after a refused SAD. It also mentions nothing about negating bounties or death curses.
So my questions would be:
1. Is that a correct understanding of the current system?
2. If that's not a correct understanding of SADs will there be any kind of flag (such as criminal, attacker, or a similar flag) / any alignment drift incurred through SAD use? Do death curses and bounties still apply?
* The first point I just highlighted to point out how easily SAD wielding bandits would have been to deal with in the old system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Andius
1. If a crime in settlement, all flags appropriate will still apply, unless the target is a feud, war, etc... Target.
2. Bounties are a yes, I believe. Bounties are said to be whenever you are "harmed"
3. Death Curse I believe is a no, must be on enemies list. But even if yes, it is very costly in merchants own rep.
4. You did not mention it but assassination is an option as well.
5. Alignment drifts are not an issue, never have been.
In all of the Dev Blogs and in both Stephens and Ryan's posts, I hope now it is realized that agency of the victim or with the victim is required in order to be exempt from consequences to retaliate or even defend.
If you want to interrupt a SAD, and avoid rep hits yourself, and you have no agency to the victim then SAD is the tool you can use. Otherwise just attack and take the hits, if you feel it is the right thing to do then do it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you refuse sad I think you should have the opportunity to defend yourself without at least rep losses.
If I'm correct that's how it works. You get the same flags, alignment shifts / the victim receives the same chances to fight back, death curse you, and place a bounty on you when you attack after a refused SAD as if you just walked up to them and outright attacked them.
The only outlined advantages of the SAD are the chance to trade and negated reputation loss. There's nothing else that's been confirmed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well there is one thing that is cool:
These are only the rules for the SADs that are being used right NOW.
TBD means TBD.
Remember that anything that is too unbalanced will get adjusted. You just have to believe that GW wants a game that people want to play. That includes merchants and gatherers. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm just sad that bandits get to ply their trade without repercussions, but good aligned adventurers helping the downtrodden do not.
I think about this a lot. My intuition tells me that there's a serious imbalance when Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters can freely kill anyone they want with no consequences other than the consequences they've already embraced by being Low Reputation and Chaotic Evil. It makes me think that Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters should automatically be flagged as Hostile to everyone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm just sad that bandits get to ply their trade without repercussions, but good aligned adventurers helping the downtrodden do not.I think about this a lot. My intuition tells me that there's a serious imbalance when Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters can freely kill anyone they want with no consequences other than the consequences they've already embraced by being Low Reputation and Chaotic Evil. It makes me think that Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters should automatically be flagged as Hostile to everyone.
I think about this a lot as well. Especially since accepting CE for what it is billed as, and not as rp fluff.
I am gathering that CE/Low Rep is something that GW wants to discourage to a greater degree, but want them to fill a niche to a lesser degree. Is that a fair interpretation Nihimon?
If it is then the goal would be small amounts of people falling into CE, possibly for small amounts of time. There is a thresh hold of suck though. If they are at a disadvantage to the point of comical, you might see little to no one falling into the niche.
That is alright if that is the end goal, but if CE serves a purpose at all then does it need to see a floor of suck at some point? A lowest position where they can not fall further?
Also are we accepting banditry as a CE/low Rep niche? I arm gathering that impression from your reply. I am afraid I might be misinterpreting you.
I could see many settlements not entertaining housing for bandits, but I am not sure I wish to see them lumped into CE either. While I don't want to see rep penalties for pursuing bandits as a vigilante, I also don't want there to be essentially no tangible threats in the wilds and on our borders.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm just sad that bandits get to ply their trade without repercussions, but good aligned adventurers helping the downtrodden do not.
You are obviously refusing to read anything that has been written by the Devs, Ryan or the other forum posters on this subject. There is no convincing the blind to see, especially when being blind is a choice.
The first preventative thing that you can do is guard them. If you see a caravan preparing to leave your settlement, offer to escort them to their destination.
What was the expression? "Millions for defense, not one copper for tribute."
Hire yourselves out as guards, or hire guards if you are the merchant.
If you want to have repercussions against a bandit or group of bandits:
1. SAD them back, when you have enough force to do so.
2. Bounty or Assassination against a lone bandit; Death Curse if he killed you.
3. Feud with your company against their company.
4. Discover location of bandit hideout, loot it, destroy it, take it over.
5. Have your settlement wage war against their settlement.
None of these will cost you reputation (except for the Death Curse).
Just because there is no mechanic to do it for you, doesn't mean you can do nothing. You have to create your own repercussions. That is a meaningful interaction that the Devs have said fits their design objectives.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Another point about why the SAD is needed.
Without it, every merchant will be Lawful Good, Maximum reputation and untouchable. They will be able to harvest and trade untouched, with the most severe and prohibitive punishments attached to killing them
Merchants will never join, companies or settlements, and avoid feuds and wars. They will never join factions, and avoid faction warfare.
They will travel in a group of 3, so that killing them will cost the maximum penalty of -7500 Rep for just one attack.
They will choose Lawful Good, because it does not hinder their actions in any way. But, the choice is designed to inflict maximum chaotic and evil shifts on their would be attackers.
Eventually every merchant in the game will min max alignment and reputation. The SAD is the only way to touch them, under the current systems. Unless of course you are willing to attack one caravan and end up with CE + -7500 Rep.
My question to the Devs is, will the SAD be the only tool that others can use?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm just sad that bandits get to ply their trade without repercussions, but good aligned adventurers helping the downtrodden do not.I think about this a lot. My intuition tells me that there's a serious imbalance when Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters can freely kill anyone they want with no consequences other than the consequences they've already embraced by being Low Reputation and Chaotic Evil. It makes me think that Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters should automatically be flagged as Hostile to everyone.
Why not make it purely a Low Rep situation? Once you hit -5000 (or maybe lower), you automatically become free game to everyone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Another point about why the SAD is needed.
I must have missed where anyone was saying to take SAD away. I just want there to be a risk. That random adventurer that happens upon a bandit SADing someone? Not likely to get any reward for their good deed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why not make it purely a Low Rep situation? Once you hit -5000 (or maybe lower), you automatically become free game to everyone.I'm just sad that bandits get to ply their trade without repercussions, but good aligned adventurers helping the downtrodden do not.I think about this a lot. My intuition tells me that there's a serious imbalance when Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters can freely kill anyone they want with no consequences other than the consequences they've already embraced by being Low Reputation and Chaotic Evil. It makes me think that Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters should automatically be flagged as Hostile to everyone.
Because one incident, where you or your settlement needs you to take one for the team, could bring you to minimum reputation of -7500.
It is not just bandits that may lose reputation. Companies and settlements might not always have the luxury of influence to spend on a feud or war, and yet someone or a group of people might need to be taken care of.
Ryan did say, don't let personal reputation or alignment stand in the way of altruism towards your settlement and its needs.
So, to ask someone to have a target on them, for anyone to kill them, for maybe 6 months is a bit over kill (IMHO).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why not make it purely a Low Rep situation? Once you hit -5000 (or maybe lower), you automatically become free game to everyone.I'm just sad that bandits get to ply their trade without repercussions, but good aligned adventurers helping the downtrodden do not.I think about this a lot. My intuition tells me that there's a serious imbalance when Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters can freely kill anyone they want with no consequences other than the consequences they've already embraced by being Low Reputation and Chaotic Evil. It makes me think that Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters should automatically be flagged as Hostile to everyone.
Because one incident, where you or your settlement needs you to take one for the team, could bring you to minimum reputation of -7500.
It is not just bandits that may lose reputation. Companies and settlements might not always have the luxury of influence to spend on a feud or war, and yet someone or a group of people might need to be taken care of.
Ryan did say, don't let personal reputation or alignment stand in the way of altruism towards your settlement and its needs.
So, to ask someone to have a target on them, for anyone to kill them, for maybe 6 months is a bit over kill (IMHO).
If it's that much of a killing spree, then it must be worth being free game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Another point about why the SAD is needed.I must have missed where anyone was saying to take SAD away. I just want there to be a risk. That random adventurer that happens upon a bandit SADing someone? Not likely to get any reward for their good deed.
First, there are those that want it removed altogether.
Second, there is risk for the bandits, if you create it. Hire guards or be guards. If every merchant does that, than bandits will eventually have noting but guarded caravans to deal with. Bandits will then respond by bringing more members, or training for more combat skills. The balance of power will shift back and forth, fights will become bigger and quite honestly more fun.
But, there will always be that cheap ass, greedy merchant who doesn't hire guards. He will be easy pickings.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, to ask someone to have a target on them, for anyone to kill them, for maybe 6 months is a bit over kill (IMHO).
Just for clarification, isn't that your ideal? I mean if it were the same for everyone in the wildlands? So those that want that, only want it if it is a matter of "First Strike"?
I am not trying to be contentious, nor advocating that really low rep should be an automatic PVP flag. I am just curious what the difference is for those that would like absolute freedom to PVP anyone.
It seems that if you were flagged constantly, you would probably get all the PVP you could ever want.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm just sad that bandits get to ply their trade without repercussions, but good aligned adventurers helping the downtrodden do not.I think about this a lot. My intuition tells me that there's a serious imbalance when Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters can freely kill anyone they want with no consequences other than the consequences they've already embraced by being Low Reputation and Chaotic Evil. It makes me think that Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters should automatically be flagged as Hostile to everyone.I think about this a lot as well. Especially since accepting CE for what it is billed as, and not as rp fluff.
I am gathering that CE/Low Rep is something that GW wants to discourage to a greater degree, but want them to fill a niche to a lesser degree. Is that a fair interpretation Nihimon?
That's really the question at the heart of Could PFO Thrive with No Unsanctioned PvP? Is there a benefit to the game in having folks who are Chaotic Evil and Low Reputation, or would the game still thrive if there simply weren't any. I tend to think it's a moot point - there will be folks in that niche, and they'll provide content for others.
Also are we accepting banditry as a CE/low Rep niche? I arm gathering that impression from your reply. I am afraid I might be misinterpreting you.
I could see many settlements not entertaining housing for bandits, but I am not sure I wish to see them lumped into CE either. While I don't want to see rep penalties for pursuing bandits as a vigilante, I also don't want there to be essentially no tangible threats in the wilds and on our borders.
I don't have strong feelings about banditry other than that I will almost certainly try to kill anyone who tries to take something from me by threat of force. I defer to the devs with regard to whether they want to create a space for folks to kill and/or steal "randomly" without suffering Reputation and/or Alignment penalties.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why not make it purely a Low Rep situation? Once you hit -5000 (or maybe lower), you automatically become free game to everyone.I'm just sad that bandits get to ply their trade without repercussions, but good aligned adventurers helping the downtrodden do not.I think about this a lot. My intuition tells me that there's a serious imbalance when Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters can freely kill anyone they want with no consequences other than the consequences they've already embraced by being Low Reputation and Chaotic Evil. It makes me think that Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters should automatically be flagged as Hostile to everyone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why not make it purely a Low Rep situation? Once you hit -5000 (or maybe lower), you automatically become free game to everyone.Because one incident, where you or your settlement needs you to take one for the team, could bring you to minimum reputation of -7500.
I remain unconvinced that this is a likely scenario. The only solid example we have about "taking one for the team" was from Ryan where he suggested that might just involve foregoing an opportunity to raise your Reputation. I am holding out hope that we won't be required to trash our Reputation in reasonable defense of our Settlement's interests. If we are, then I think that's likely a sign that the Reputation system has failed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why not make it purely a Low Rep situation? Once you hit -5000 (or maybe lower), you automatically become free game to everyone.I'm just sad that bandits get to ply their trade without repercussions, but good aligned adventurers helping the downtrodden do not.I think about this a lot. My intuition tells me that there's a serious imbalance when Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters can freely kill anyone they want with no consequences other than the consequences they've already embraced by being Low Reputation and Chaotic Evil. It makes me think that Low Reputation Chaotic Evil characters should automatically be flagged as Hostile to everyone.
Ha. I totally forgot about that thread.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I feel reputation, to work as intended, as I see, needs to have huge amounts of different shades and degrees of grays to cater to different playstyles and roles. Also the closer a character drifts to chaotic and evil everything that is orderly, organized and meaningful should be taken away from the player for the sake of catering to different roles and styles of play.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I feel reputation, to work as intended, as I see, needs to have huge amounts of different shades and degrees of grays to cater to different playstyles and roles.
I highly agree. One of the big problems I've seen with these types of systems is there is a very low threshold before you go "red". At the point you go red you're a 100% consequence free kill to everyone, can't enter blue cities, and suffer any other penalties associated with being red.
So at the point players go red they go full on sociopath and start killing anyone and everyone because... why not?
That shouldn't be the case in PFO though. The rep system has always been portrayed as something that gets worse the deeper you get into the negative. I think somewhere between -5000 and -7000 should be about when your character crosses over from "disadvantaged" to "unplayable." That's the point when the consequences for killing you should drop to 0 for anyone and everyone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I feel reputation, to work as intended, as I see, needs to have huge amounts of different shades and degrees of grays to cater to different playstyles and roles.I highly agree. One of the big problems I've seen with these types of systems is there is a very low threshold before you go "red". At the point you go red you're a 100% consequence free kill to everyone, can't enter blue cities, and suffer any other penalties associated with being red.
So at the point players go red they go full on sociopath and start killing anyone and everyone because... why not?
That shouldn't be the case in PFO though. The rep system has always been portrayed as something that gets worse the deeper you get into the negative. I think somewhere between -5000 and -7000 should be about when your character crosses over from "disadvantaged" to "unplayable." That's the point when the consequences for killing you should drop to 0 for anyone and everyone.
That is not a bad point, and addresses my prior question pretty well IMO.
At one range you are intended content, gimped but still a challenge to some degree in whatever special situations.
At the bottom of the barrel you are essentially unplayable, as well as easily farmed content.
I could live with that.
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This may have been raised already however in case it hasnt.
If I SAD you I can demand a portion of between 0 and 100% of what you are carrying. I however also expect to be able to specify items that I want
example you are carrying 100 iron bars and 100 planks. I expect to be able to demand iron bars in payment and not wood
Probably non controversial so far...so here comes the kicker
I as a bandit notice you are wearing a really nice breastplate with a stunning filigree design...it would look much better on me though I am sure
I should be able to still demand it as part of the SAD settlement EVEN if it is threaded. After all you can always refuse the sad in which case I can kill you but can't loot it
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Goblin Squad Member
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This may have been raised already however in case it hasnt.
If I SAD you I can demand a portion of between 0 and 100% of what you are carrying. I however also expect to be able to specify items that I want
example you are carrying 100 iron bars and 100 planks. I expect to be able to demand iron bars in payment and not wood
Probably non controversial so far...so here comes the kicker
I as a bandit notice you are wearing a really nice breastplate with a stunning filigree design...it would look much better on me though I am sure
I should be able to still demand it as part of the SAD settlement EVEN if it is threaded. After all you can always refuse the sad in which case I can kill you but can't loot it
Unfortunately wouldn't that just allow the SAD to be used as a free kill in many situations?
This may have been raised already however in case it hasnt.
If I SAD you I can demand a portion of between 0 and 100% of what you are carrying. I however also expect to be able to specify items that I want
example you are carrying 100 iron bars and 100 planks. I expect to be able to demand iron bars in payment and not wood
Probably non controversial so far...so here comes the kicker
I as a bandit notice you are wearing a really nice breastplate with a stunning filigree design...it would look much better on me though I am sure
I should be able to still demand it as part of the SAD settlement EVEN if it is threaded. After all you can always refuse the sad in which case I can kill you but can't loot it
We don't really know enough about the SAD system yet to talk about these points. We don't know if it'll be loot or coins, if it will be inspection-based or percentage based, etc. We don't even know if it's possible to SAD someone for more than they have (though I doubt it, which implies it's at least somewhat percentage based).
Though I agree you should be able to SAD for threaded items. It doesn't really make sense that someone couldn't demand a breastplate they see you wearing, and of course, even threaded, someone could take it off I'm sure, and then hand it over. So, makes sense. It wouldn't force people to hand over threaded items, because they can just reject the SAD.
Unfortunately wouldn't that just allow the SAD to be used as a free kill in many situations?This may have been raised already however in case it hasnt.
If I SAD you I can demand a portion of between 0 and 100% of what you are carrying. I however also expect to be able to specify items that I want
example you are carrying 100 iron bars and 100 planks. I expect to be able to demand iron bars in payment and not wood
Probably non controversial so far...so here comes the kicker
I as a bandit notice you are wearing a really nice breastplate with a stunning filigree design...it would look much better on me though I am sure
I should be able to still demand it as part of the SAD settlement EVEN if it is threaded. After all you can always refuse the sad in which case I can kill you but can't loot it
No more than any other demand....the demand is made you decide whether you are better off accepting it or not. Personally I see no reason why you couldn't demand threaded items. If it is a really nice item you will probably refuse, if it is run of the mill which a lot of items will be then no reason not to give it up. All depends on the replacement cost I would guess
I should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSI
I should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSI
If you're referring to Monster Hexes, they probably already will be FFA PvP, though that's still up in the air.
I think it's important to keep in mind that the game system must be able to determine whether or not the demand was satisfied. It's interesting to ponder whether the devs will find value in allowing you to demand a piece of threaded gear.
thats easy enough. A trade window....I drag from your inventory to the my side of the trade window what I want. You drag from your inventory to your side your counter offer. We continue till either we both accept, you reject or a timer runs out.
If we both accept the items you put in the trade window are transferred to me
If you reject I kill you
If the timer runs out I kill you
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Goblin Squad Member
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I should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSI
I would not make plans on being able to do this through SADs. We do not know the exact parameters, but we know the spirit in which SADs are being introduced. I trust the devs have already considered such abuses if the system were left open.
I should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSIIf you're referring to Monster Hexes, they probably already will be FFA PvP, though that's still up in the air.
They may or may not be, but it is not just monster hexes. As I understand it a settlement has control over the 6 hexes surrounding it under the proposed mechanics and this is where your laws run and you can set it so all non blues are basically criminals.
However as far as I am concerned our law runs as far as we can use force projection to enforce it. If that requires us to use other mechanics to get around things like reputation loss then we shall do so
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Goblin Squad Member
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I should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSI
Banditry will be a powerful weapon for settlements that organize to use it against other settlements, you could blockade them for awhile before you go to all out war.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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I should be able to still demand it as part of the SAD settlement EVEN if it is threaded. After all you can always refuse the sad in which case I can kill you but can't loot it
Almost certainly: "wouldn't it be cool if X means nobody ever does X".
Another(TM) consequence of the Thread Economy is that commonly Threaded Gear is likely to be astonishingly expensive once it ceases being average. The odds that it's worth less than the average traveling merchant character's inventory of trade goods seems ... low.
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I should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSIBanditry will be a powerful weapon for settlements that organize to use it against other settlements, you could blockade them for awhile before you go to all out war.
While that is true it is more powerful still when you hire your bandits as mercenaries and make those bandits believe they have been hired by a completely different settlement to yours which will almost definitely get back to the settlement they are attacking. Mercenary bandit groups such as UNC are reknowned for their information security in much the same way as the Titanic is famed for its ability to negotiate ice berg strewn waters
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Goblin Squad Member
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While that is true it is more powerful still when you hire your bandits as mercenaries and make those bandits believe they have been hired by a completely different settlement to yours which will almost definitely get back to the settlement they are attacking. Mercenary bandit groups such as UNC are reknowned for their information security in much the same way as the Titanic is famed for its ability to negotiate ice berg strewn watersI should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSIBanditry will be a powerful weapon for settlements that organize to use it against other settlements, you could blockade them for awhile before you go to all out war.
OUCH! hehe
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Goblin Squad Member
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While that is true it is more powerful still when you hire your bandits as mercenaries and make those bandits believe they have been hired by a completely different settlement to yours which will almost definitely get back to the settlement they are attacking. Mercenary bandit groups such as UNC are reknowned for their information security in much the same way as the Titanic is famed for its ability to negotiate ice berg strewn watersI should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSIBanditry will be a powerful weapon for settlements that organize to use it against other settlements, you could blockade them for awhile before you go to all out war.
I'm interested to see how well the game systems will be able to support hiring CCs and keeping them accountable and also if their will be mercenary companies in wars as well as the possibility of mercenary armies forming that are not allied with any settlement and can be paid to fight a war.
While that is true it is more powerful still when you hire your bandits as mercenaries and make those bandits believe they have been hired by a completely different settlement to yours which will almost definitely get back to the settlement they are attacking. Mercenary bandit groups such as UNC are reknowned for their information security in much the same way as the Titanic is famed for its ability to negotiate ice berg strewn watersI should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSIBanditry will be a powerful weapon for settlements that organize to use it against other settlements, you could blockade them for awhile before you go to all out war.
Which will only make the ones who do gain reputations of discretion that much more powerful. The key I think will be to have the Leader be the only one who knows where the $$ is coming from. The guildies will get paid, but be none the wiser to where said funds are coming from.
Meta game rep will be like a currency in itself.
While that is true it is more powerful still when you hire your bandits as mercenaries and make those bandits believe they have been hired by a completely different settlement to yours which will almost definitely get back to the settlement they are attacking. Mercenary bandit groups such as UNC are reknowned for their information security in much the same way as the Titanic is famed for its ability to negotiate ice berg strewn watersI should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSIBanditry will be a powerful weapon for settlements that organize to use it against other settlements, you could blockade them for awhile before you go to all out war.Which will only make the ones who do gain reputations of discretion that much more powerful. The key I think will be to have the Leader be the only one who knows where the $$ is coming from. The guildies will get paid, but be none the wiser to where said funds are coming from.
Meta game rep will be like a currency in itself.
If you are misleading the bandits as to who is hiring them the groups that leak like a sieve will be worth more. In general though I agree meta game rep is the only rep that really counts. I certainly won't be investing any trust in anyone purely because of some in game rep score
If you are misleading the bandits as to who is hiring them the groups that leak like a sieve will be worth more. In general though I agree meta game rep is the only rep that really counts. I certainly won't be investing any trust in anyone purely because of some in game rep scoreWhile that is true it is more powerful still when you hire your bandits as mercenaries and make those bandits believe they have been hired by a completely different settlement to yours which will almost definitely get back to the settlement they are attacking. Mercenary bandit groups such as UNC are reknowned for their information security in much the same way as the Titanic is famed for its ability to negotiate ice berg strewn watersI should say I do not really have a horse in this race as we will not be doing banditry in the sense of robbing people. We would however use SAD and hideout mechanics to establish control over territory which cannot be theoretically claimed by our settlement and we will ensure that SAD is at a level which will result in refusal because the objective is to make the hex NBSIBanditry will be a powerful weapon for settlements that organize to use it against other settlements, you could blockade them for awhile before you go to all out war.Which will only make the ones who do gain reputations of discretion that much more powerful. The key I think will be to have the Leader be the only one who knows where the $$ is coming from. The guildies will get paid, but be none the wiser to where said funds are coming from.
Meta game rep will be like a currency in itself.
Nobody said anything about "misleading". I'm talking about just making the info about who's hiring them on a "need-to-know" basis, where only I, as the GM, need to know.