i'd pay 30 bucks for these 4 plus their added talents easy. call is Class Talent Volume One.
20 for the "Talented Warrior" that included the Fighter, Cavalier, Barbarian + extra.
15 for the "Talented XXXX" that had the Monk & Rogue + extra.
Fold Bard, Ranger, Paladin into the 1/2 spellcasters.
Each book having the equivalent of the Talented Warrior in it for those classes.
Come on magus!(that's a vote btw)
I love the talented cavalier PDF, it's the first one I have purchased and I am working on getting the others soon.
For Talented Full BAB classes I'd probably go for $15-$25 for a hard copy.
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The more recent Talented book, The Genius Guide to More Barbarian Talents is available now!
It also already has a 5/5 review over on DriveThruRPG
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So, we have released The Genius Guide to the Talented: Barbarian, Cavalier, Fighter, Monk, and Rogue; and More Talented for each of those classes.
We've scheduled Ranger and Witch.
And NOW the current votes for Talented #8 are:
Alchemist (10)
Bard (1) (Currently being worked on by another writer who I trust, but makes scheduling tricky)
Cleric (3)*
Dark Mistress (1)**
Gunslinger (4)
Inquisitor (2) (With a request to include by Justicar variant)
Magus (10)
Paladin (1)
Priests*** (4)
Sorcerer (2)
Summoner (4)
*With tiebreaker powers if it gets that popular, because keeping your editor happy is important!
** Yes, a nom de succubus. Hey, I'm up to considering anything that gets enough votes.
***As a place for a spontaneous divine caster and aids the GM to tailor priests/clerics to deity beyond Domains and channel to include the armor proficiency, BAB, hit die, spell lists. This might end up being an option in the Talented Oracle, of maybe even Talented Cleric, depending on what direction I take those.
So Alchemist and Magus are in a dead heat!
Also someone pointed out that if I did Gunslinger and Paladin after ranger, I'd have covered all the classes with a full base attack progression, and could compile those. That's a thought.
I think the magus should win since it has been at the top or near the top just about every vote so far.
Alchemist.
For the love of science, alchemist!
alchemist for me too. One of the if not the coolest classes for pathfinder.
I vote for Paladin. I would really like a spell-less version. I would also like to see ways to make non-lawful good versions. And anti-paladin.
And if anyone is missing any of the current Talented options, they are now all on sale!
Is there an expected release time for the ranger?
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T Ranger is going to suffer a delay, as is T Witch. I have some huge, so-far-unannounced commitments that are playing merry havoc with my schedule. And recently-announced things, like the Mythic Mania multiple-publisher Kickstarter, took their toll as well.
I'll let folks know as soon as I have a more solid grasp of which what is when.
Havent heard anything in a while, and while I know you have alot on your plate I was wondering if we could get atleast a status update.
Havent heard anything in a while, and while I know you have alot on your plate I was wondering if we could get atleast a status update.
That's ENTIRELY reasonable.
As I alluded to back in March, I got hired by Paizo to be the Developer for the Pathfinder Modules line, and that meant I needed to pack or sell everything I owned, put my house on the market, wrap up all my outstanding freelance projects, find an apartment in the Seattle area I could afford while still paying my mortgage, move halfway across the country, settle in at the Paizo office...
So yes. Delays to RGG were inevitable.
We *just* got out our first RGG project since my arrival in Seattle, Ultimate Options: Story Feats, and I am finally posting new #Microfeats on the Rogue Genius Facebook Page.
So, I am finally getting back to RGG work in between Paizo and Green Ronin projects and needs.
My #1 RGG writing priority is Talented Ranger, and I hope to have it out before the end of the month.
Talented Witch comes after that, though it'll be available through the Strange Brew Kickstarter before it's available for general sales.
And of course come August I'll start looking at the classes from the Advanced Class Guide to see how they fit into the talented line.
Does that cover you questions? :D
(Anyone else have anything they want to ask?)
Have you decided what class is going to be after the ranger and witch?
No, not yet.
I am leaning towards gunslinger or paladin, since I'd like to get all the full-attack-bonuses classes done and I already have barbarian, cavalier, and fighter, and am working on ranger.
Anyone have something they'd especially like to see after ranger and witch?
I'd be leaning gunslinger personally, though have to admit I'd be really curious how a paladin could be done too. Either of those would be excellent I think.
And of course come August I'll start looking at the classes from the Advanced Class Guide to see how they fit into the talented line.Does that cover you questions? :D
(Anyone else have anything they want to ask?)
Sort of a side question, more of a curiocity on policy then anything else. I would imagine your position in paizo would give you early access to new material, particularly if say, an upcoming module was going to have an order of holy warriors, it would make sense for you to see the warpriest and include it (or some similar situation).
How does that interact with your responsibilities with RGG. Obviously you cant release anything prior to the release of the underlying product, but does that mean you have to wait to start development on advanced options new swashbuckler deeds or whatever?
Gunslinger for sure.
Gunslinger could be interesting, if you had some edges that took away the focus on guns. That might sound odd, but in light of the Cavalier that has no mount, and the ACG Swashbuckler who is built around grit/panache, there are possibilities.
Nonetheless, I think the Magus wins in the "needs love" category.
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Sort of a side question, more of a curiocity on policy then anything else. I would imagine your position in paizo would give you early access to new material, particularly if say, an upcoming module was going to have an order of holy warriors, it would make sense for you to see the warpriest and include it (or some similar situation).
How does that interact with your responsibilities with RGG. Obviously you cant release anything prior to the release of the underlying product, but does that mean you have to wait to start development on advanced options new swashbuckler deeds or whatever?
That’s a fair question, and a tricky issue. But it isn’t actually a new tricky issue.
I’ve often had access to the hardback rules expansions for Pathfinder before they were released. As a freelancer, I wrote chunks of the Advanced Class Guide, Advanced Player’s Guide, Advanced Race Guide, Bestiary 2, Monster Codex, and Ultimate Magic. In a few cases my work on non-core books meant I got early access to unpublished core books so I’d be drawing on the finished rules for supplemental material. So I have often had the physical opportunity to begin designing supplemental 3pp material (at this point most likely for Rogue Genius Games) before the related books are released.
But I never have, and never will. No work begins on any supplemental material until the book it ties in to is publically available.
There are a few reasons for this, the most important being that I have been under a Non-Disclosure Agreement with Paizo since 2007 (and when I signed it, I may have already been under one from 2005) . That means I have agreed not to disclose any confidential material Paizo gives me, or to use it for any purpose other than the advancement of Paizo’s best interests.
It’s obvious to me that doesn’t include using the material to write for another game company (no, not even one that will sell it’s products on Paizo.com, giving them a cut of its income). Also, I generally have access to those things in order to write neat things for Paizo. It would be intellectually dishonest to “reserve” any of those for use by other companies while I’m writing or developing Paizo content. So if I have a neat idea I can work into some Paizo product I am involved with, it goes there. If it doesn’t match anything I am working on, I ignore it. Only after the source material is generally available do I write such ideas down and begin writing and developing for side projects.
Of course now that I am an on-staff developer for Paizo I have access to pretty much everything long before it’s generally available, whether I’ve worked on it or not. But the same rules apply. Yes, I’m dying to pop open the files for the Technology Guide and read them over. But I have no need to in my current Paizo duties, and no spare time at the office to do so anyway. If something I was working on for Paizo needed me to look at the Technology Guide I wouldn’t hesitate to do so, but any thoughts I had would go into the Paizo product, or languish until the book comes out in August.
This “firewalling” of my knowledge as Paizo developer and my resources as publisher of RGG or developer for Green Ronin also goes well beyond building supplements for specific rulebooks that haven’t been published yet. I am now privy to the publishing schedule well beyond what has been announced, and I can’t use that to plan or plot future projects, either. That isn’t always easy to do, but it’s a necessary part of deciding to work for three game companies that all produce material for the same game system. It is an amazing vote of trust from Paizo and Green Ronin that both companies accept that I can, in fact, keep their secrets to myself even while I work for other companies doing similar stuff.
So, can I say I’m looking forward to working on how to best fit the Advanced Class Guide material into the Talented line of books? Absolutely, because I know that looking at the publicly available description and playtest. Can I mention that I am considering just making the new abilities of the new hybrid classes talents available to their parent classes? Sure, for the same reason. Can I start trying to figure out how to balance a warpriests blessings with my edge and talents system?
Nope. I won’t tinker with ideas on that AT ALL until after Gen Con.
In no way am I complaining, by the way. Working at Paizo while being under contract with Green Ronin and remaining the publisher of Rogue Genius Games is awesome.
So for "what comes after ranger and witch" that's:
Alchemist: 1 vote
Gunslinger: 4 votes
Paladin: 2 votes
Magus: 1 vote
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Gunslinger could be interesting, if you had some edges that took away the focus on guns. That might sound odd, but in light of the Cavalier that has no mount, and the ACG Swashbuckler who is built around grit/panache, there are possibilities.
Not to mention the "Did it before Paizo" rules for alternate grit as panache and guile, and the no-need-for-firearms Fusilier class that uses panache that I wrote in Ultimate Options: Grit and Gunslingers
We already did this but here we go again.
Alchemist
If we are voting again put me down for Magus after Ranger
That’s a fair question, and a tricky issue. But it isn’t actually a new tricky issue.
I’ve often had access to the hardback rules expansions for Pathfinder before they were released. As a freelancer, I wrote chunks of the Advanced Class Guide, Advanced Player’s Guide, Advanced Race Guide, Bestiary 2, Monster Codex, and Ultimate Magic. In a few cases my work on non-core books meant I got early access to unpublished core books so I’d be drawing on the finished rules for supplemental material. So I have often had the physical opportunity to begin designing supplemental 3pp material (at this point most likely for Rogue Genius Games) before the related books are released.
But I never have, and never will. No work begins on any supplemental material until the book it ties in to is publically available.
There are a few reasons for this, the most important being that I have been under a Non-Disclosure Agreement with Paizo since 2007 (and when I signed it, I may have already been under one from 2005) . That means I have agreed not to disclose any confidential material Paizo gives me, or to use it for any purpose other than the advancement of Paizo’s best interests.It’s obvious to me that doesn’t include using the material to write for another game company (no, not even one that will sell it’s products on Paizo.com, giving them a cut of its income). Also, I generally have access to those things in order to write neat things for Paizo. It would be intellectually dishonest to “reserve” any of those for use by other companies while I’m writing or developing Paizo content. So if I have a neat idea I can work into some Paizo product I am involved with, it goes there. If it doesn’t match anything I am working on, I ignore it. Only after the source material is generally available do I write such ideas down and begin writing and developing for side projects.
Of course now that I am an on-staff developer for Paizo I have access to pretty much everything long before it’s generally available, whether I’ve worked on it or not. But the same rules apply. Yes, I’m dying to pop open the files for the Technology Guide and read them over. But I have no need to in my current Paizo duties, and no spare time at the office to do so anyway. If something I was working on for Paizo needed me to look at the Technology Guide I wouldn’t hesitate to do so, but any thoughts I had would go into the Paizo product, or languish until the book comes out in August.
This “firewalling” of my knowledge as Paizo developer and my resources as publisher of RGG or developer for Green Ronin also goes well beyond building supplements for specific rulebooks that haven’t been published yet. I am now privy to the publishing schedule well beyond what has been announced, and I can’t use that to plan or plot future projects, either. That isn’t always easy to do, but it’s a necessary part of deciding to work for three game companies that all produce material for the same game system. It is an amazing vote of trust from Paizo and Green Ronin that both companies accept that I can, in fact, keep their secrets to myself even while I work for other companies doing similar stuff.
So, can I say I’m looking forward to working on how to best fit the Advanced Class Guide material into the Talented line of books? Absolutely, because I know that looking at the publicly available description and playtest. Can I mention that I am considering just making the new abilities of the new hybrid classes talents available to their parent classes? Sure, for the same reason. Can I start trying to figure out how to balance a warpriests blessings with my edge and talents system?
Nope. I won’t tinker with ideas on that AT ALL until after Gen Con.
In no way am I complaining, by the way. Working at Paizo while being under contract with Green Ronin and remaining the publisher of Rogue Genius Games is awesome.
Thanks for the explanation. It is interesting to see such aspects of the industry from the other side. I hadnt considered the impact of an NDA on the development of future projects, but ethically and likely legally that makes sense. Of course that seems like it might get very tricky, since for instance, baring your inside knowledge you could be starting preliminary work on a project like say Advanced Options New Warpriest blessings, based on what was in the round 2 playtest and the comments in the teaser blog. It would be a bit premature, but you could always be kicking around ideas. But given your position it would be impossible to separate that speculation from the actual first hand knowledge you likely have of final rules.
Also my vote is alchemist, and if you do the alchemist, PLEASE look at the new alchemy manual. Its totally a sin that swift alchemcy wasnt directly integrated into the class somehow.
One vote gunslinger over here Owen.
I have a feeling Owen favors gunslinger because the Grit book means it's already about 30% written... :)
Gunslinger. Magus is stronk, Gunslinger needs halp.
Alchemist!
We already did this but here we go again
After such a huge hiccup in my life, and the long schedule that went with it, I thought people's opinions might have adjusted over time. After all new material comes along, campaigns change, the ACG looms... :)
So now for "what comes after ranger and witch" that's:
Alchemist: 4 vote
Gunslinger: 6 votes
Magus: 3 votes
Paladin: 2 votes
Summoner: 1 vote
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I have a feeling Owen favors gunslinger because the Grit book means it's already about 30% written... :)
Actually I'll have to make the same call with Gunslinger and Grit and Gunslingers I am with Ranger and Ranger Knacks. Do I duplicate material because it's appropriate (making those tweaks needed to be talents), or do I point people to the original as an additional source, like I have with some of the previous books.
For these two products (and sorcerer options: beyond bloodlines when I get to sorcerers) its a little different, because the product is class talents by another name, written before I thought to totally rework the class.
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I have a feeling Owen favors gunslinger because the Grit book means it's already about 30% written... :)Actually I'll have to make the same call with Gunslinger and Grit and Gunslingers I am with Ranger and Ranger Knacks. Do I duplicate material because it's appropriate (making those tweaks needed to be talents), or do I point people to the original as an additional source, like I have with some of the previous books.
For these two products (and sorcerer options: beyond bloodlines when I get to sorcerers) its a little different, because the product is class talents by another name, written before I thought to totally rework the class.
I'd rather see genius material incorporated rather then left out. Even if it shows up in the 'more x talents' version. I was a little sad to see for instance the charisma based abilities seaswain not find its way into the talented monk.
Its not really duplicating material any more then the rest of the talented line is. Like 90% of the text is copied from existing paizo products already, with just the minor tweaks you mentioned. How is it different if the previous incarnation was a genius guide?
I would like to toss a vote in for Alchemist, but I would be happy with Gunslinger as well.
A somewhat related question for you Owen; How would you have the Talented classes interact with the Archetype Packages concept (like in the Archer Archetype Book)? Would it be fair to let players swap out an Edge or Talent at the appropriate level and gain the archetype ability.
Also on a tangential note I would love (and buy) any technology based material you make when the Technology Guide hit the public.
Edit: I agree with Kolokotroni on the matter of other relevant RGG material being incorporated into the Talented books, so long as it doesn't negatively impact the core concept of the Talented book in question.
Fighter/wizard used to be one of my favorite things to play. I was very happy when the Eldritch Knight was published, and even under Pathfinder, fighter/wizard/eldritch knight was still one of my favorite character types. The magus came out...
... and fighter/wizard/eldritch knight is still one of my favorite character types. It's hard to put my finger on it, but when I take into account the hard-coded progression of abilities, the reliance on full-round actions, and the limited spell selection, it's just not as fun for me, even thought I realize that, objectively, the two paths are very similar in power level. I just like the EK better, and that's really a shame, because the magus really ought to be all chocolate chips and brown sugar. It's a base class, yet somehow seems to end up more specialized and constrained than a character built toward a prestige class.
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I'm voting for Magus (again)... and I'd very much like to have a large book at some point, something along the lines of New Paths Compendium by Kobold Press, or even better, Deep Magic. You could do a kickstarter for the project, including some other things, such as your spellpoints rules and publish everything in a nice hardcover :)
Voting for Magus.
Shadow warrior?
A somewhat related question for you Owen; How would you have the Talented classes interact with the Archetype Packages concept (like in the Archer Archetype Book)? Would it be fair to let players swap out an Edge or Talent at the appropriate level and gain the archetype ability.
I've actually been looking at that recently, and eventually I'll do a revision of the archetype books that addresses this is a sidebar. Where possible, I think it would be fair to pay the same cost as it would take to gain the ability being traded away. In other words if an archetype power replaces something a rogue gains as an edge, a rogue can take that archetype power as an edge.
That's not a perfect answer, but it works most of them time.
Also on a tangential note I would love (and buy) any technology based material you make when the Technology Guide hit the public.
Noted!
So now for "what comes after ranger and witch" that's:
Alchemist: 5 vote
Gunslinger: 7 votes
Magus: 5 votes
Paladin: 2 votes
Summoner: 1 vote
I didn't note the Dark Mistress vote above, because that is definitely going to have to wait until the Talented Bestiary is published. RPG Superstar winner Steven T. Helt and his Four Horsemen group are working on that, and I am really, really excited by it!
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Shadow warrior?
It is on the Master Project List. It does not yet have a date associated with it. It remains a planned product. :)
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I just like the EK better, and that's really a shame, because the magus really ought to be all chocolate chips and brown sugar. It's a base class, yet somehow seems to end up more specialized and constrained than a character built toward a prestige class.
I absolutely know where you are coming from. And my plan is to roll EK options into the Talented magus, in much the way some assassins options were rolled into Talented Rogue.
I think there's a viable system to allow a base class able to fulfil more than one fighter/spellcaster role.
I'll cast my ballot for Magus. I find them interesting, and have done home versions of alternate features (a spontaneous casting option, and absorbing hostile spells) for them, but I would enjoy seeing a more professional approach.