The feel is more alchemist archetype or a hybrid. Not enough special features to make it stand out in its own, but I like the concept. I wonder if Investigator wouldn’t be a better chassis to start with. Guerrilla feels weaker than either due to lack of spells/formulae.
Skills: add bluff, climb, knowledge (local), swim
These guys are adaptable and can blend in to the crowd.
Bombs: I think they should get scrap bombs and add rocket discovery.
Survivalism: good flavor but needs more oomph. How about using craft to give makeshift bonuses or modifications to weapons and armor that are more limited like minutes/level? Use a pool of survival/makeshift points?
Crude combatant: make this a trick. Unless the guerrilla chooses dirty tricks, this is useless.
Then add a truck to use level as bab when performing dirty trick. Or stack effects with improvises arsenal.
Okay, amazingly after having dropped the playtest I got sick because of course I did. So I'm slowly starting to get back into the swing of responding to things slowly, including this thread. I said it on GitP, and I might have gone a bit more conservative than I should with this class, and thus, I'm working on a newer way of shifting that'll start from level 1 with some limitations, but still work on the basic wildshape concept.
@Onyewu, I'm not a huge fan of adding talents to a class like this. There's honestly a huge draw to make every class a talent class, and I feel doing that waters down some classes. Aspects to me work well enough as these talents, so I'd really rather not change the wheel there, as there is some expectation of fidelity to a previous class in a project like this.
With that being said, hopefully later today or tomorrow, I should be rolling out some large changes to help give the class a more immediate shifting feel along with its own identity that pulls away from the exact wild shape mechanic while still keeping its spirit.
I understand the “everyone has talents” feeling, but I like options and flexibility. Yes, I do realize feats also do this, but I felt your version hardwires in feats, including wild shape whereas mine allows one to take them if desired or choose another path. Everyone can have feats. Talents are for select classes so they seem more interesting. Personal choice is all.
I’ve been dying for a Shifter for 10+ years and my concepts include everything but the kitchen sink. The current version feels more like a claw-fighter who turns into a tiger, bird, snake, etc. . I want a guy who can fight with claws but then become bird-man, tiger-dude, or serpent-guy but still go full animal change if he wants.
Blame it on comics...
But I’m still excited by your work. (I have all your kineticist stuff and it’s fantastic)
Overall, I like your work, but still feel it's missing something. I recommend a tweak to the aspect and replace the bonus feats & wildshape rapid shifts with "talents" gives flexibility that round out the class more.
Shifter Aspect: Keep the at-will minor aspects. Major aspects can be used 3+level for 1 minute.
Alternatively go with 1/2 level + Wis for 1 minute/level (see below).
What are you referring to when you say major aspects? I'm not finding them on the playtest.
Right...I forgot to suggest they be added back in. I’m not really a huge fan of major aspects as written. I prefer the way they are done as were-touched as a hybrid form.
At first I read that as removing Wildshape. Taking a second looks it is just removing the Wildshape feats, correct? If so that could be a neat idea.
I wasn’t very clear. Replace the bonus feats and wild shape fears with talents. Of course, these feats could be talent options to choose along with other non-feat talents.
Overall, I like your work, but still feel it's missing something. I recommend a tweak to the aspect and replace the bonus feats & wildshape rapid shifts with "talents" gives flexibility that round out the class more.
Shifter Aspect: Keep the at-will minor aspects. Major aspects can be used 3+level for 1 minute.
Alternatively go with 1/2 level + Wis for 1 minute/level (see below).
Feral Focus: A shifter can study an opponent she can see as a move action. The shifter then gains a +1 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks attempted against that opponent, and a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against it. The DCs of shifter class abilities against that opponent increase by 1. A shifter can only maintain these bonuses against one opponent at a time; these bonuses remain in effect until either the opponent is dead or the shifter studies a new target.
At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, the bonuses on weapon attack, damage rolls, and skill checks and to shifter DCs against a studied target increase by 1. In addition, at each such interval, the shifter is able to maintain these bonuses against an additional studied target at the same time. The shifter may discard this connection to a feral focus as a free action, allowing her to study another target in its place.
At 7th level, a shifter can study an opponent as a move or swift action.
Wild Empathy: When using aspect, gain Wis mod as bonus for same animal type.
Bonus Feats & Wild Shape Shifts: Remove these and gain Shifter Talents at 2nd level and every two levels thereafter.
Shifter Talents: Primal Scream: see Terrifying Howl. Level 6
Speed Shift, Lightning Shift & Instant Shift: Levels 6, 10, 18
Improved Chimeric Aspect: Use 2nd major aspect. Level 12
Greater Chimeric Aspect: Use 3rd major aspect. Level 16
Extended Aspect: Major aspects can be maintained for 10 minutes/level.
Favored Terrain: Gain favored terrain as a ranger. 1 per 4 levels
Adaptation: When using natural attacks that result in damage to a feral focus the shifter selects one ability or feat from the Infiltrator Ranger archetype and may use that ability in place of a major aspect.
Improved Adaptation: gain a 2nd ability or feat
Greater Adaptation: gain a 3rd ability or feat
Wildshape Feats: As notated in the playtest document.
Poison Resistance: At 2nd level, a shifter gains a +2 bonus on all saving throws against poison. This bonus increases to +4 at 5th level, and then again to +6 at 8th level. At 10th level, an alchemist becomes completely immune to poison.
A Thousand Faces:At 12th level, a shifter gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the alter self spell, but only while in her normal form.
Swift Tracker (Ex): At 8th level, a shifter can move at her normal speed while using Survival to follow tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. She takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.
One with the Wild (Ex): At 17th level, the shifter is respected or even feared by other animals, so long as the animals are approximately of the same type as any of the shifter’s current animal aspect: bat for bats, tiger with felines, falcon for birds, snake for reptiles, and so on. No animal in this category (including dire varieties) willingly attacks the shifter unless magically compelled to or if the shifter attacks it first.
The shifter can attempt to demoralize animals in the appropriate category as a swift action, rolling 1d20 and adding the shifter’s level and her Charisma modifier to determine the Intimidate check result.
Bonus Feats:As notated in the playtest document.
Etc: I recommend some slayer talents and Hunter's Tricks (Ranger archetype) be added to round out some options that fit.
Black Panther--YES!!!
Blow gun/poison swashbuckler?
Bola/net ranger
Swarm Druid
Jungle alchemist: terrain powers-heat, mist/rain, quicksand, camouflage, vines, thorns, barkskin, plant growth, etc.
Voodoo witch
Totem Ranger: gain powers from taking a totem of a vanquished enemy
Snake themes:
Constrictor-stretchy body like Mr. Fantastic
Viper-rogue/alchemist with sneaky, poison, escapability
Mamba-shadow powers
Racer-speed powers
Maybe the demon has enemies that recognize he's in a weaker state and go after the sword to destroy it. There could be a good artifact that is in position now to destroy the demon and/or Eladrin could swoop in at this time to win back the sword, defeat the party and the good artifact.
If so that would be really impressive damage though explaining how it looks in roleplaying terms might be a little tricky ...
I imagine it like one of the big cats--they bite the throat and squeeze until their prey passes out. Then it's snack time! You know, the lethal ripping and tearing of delicious (insert your favorite tasty animal here) flesh.
While I was writing up I kinda came up with an idea. Why not combine Levitation and feather fall into a single ability to help streamline the class?
Weightlessness: At 2nd level, the Skystrike Monk may float and glide across the air, as if using the Levitation or Glide spells. He may travel 10ft every 2 levels, and begins with a movement speed of 10ft. The Skystrike Monk may only Levitate for a number of minutes equal to his Monk level before being forced to glide. At 9th level, he instead may Levitate for a number of hours equal to his monk level. This ability and replaces Slow Fall and Abundant Step.
What do people think?
Great stuff!
I've used your framework to come up with my own version although I think it's more of an alternate MCA or an MCA with archetypes built in. If anyone has any feedback please share.
Choosing combat/spells gives options for a caster vs martial PC. Combat can include bombs, IUS unarmed damage, stunning fist, cavalier's challenge, etc and gain benefits from the "Order" chosen.
Stunts are like talents for rogues.
Examples of Orders relate to bombers, charging, air spell control, aerial tricks, wildshaping, etc. I have an example below. Keep in mind this is very much WIP.
Order:
Order of the Bomber
Combat: +1 to bomb damage. Bonus increases by +1 for every four levels.
Skills: Add Knowledge (Arcana) and Use Magic Device to list of class skills. Whenever the bomber uses Knowledge (Arcana) to identify spells, he receives a competence bonus on the check equal to 1/2 his bomber level (minimum +1).
Feats: List of feats
Abilities:A bomber can add discoveries that apply to bombs at levels two, eight and fifteen.
Took on board all the recent feedback and did some tweaking, didn't end up going for the Quinggong Monk style of progression in the end, but I think this works out well. I wanted to make sure there weren't any dead levels, just as Monk is, and think I got a balanced version here;
** spoiler omitted **
I'll come up with a list of bonus feats soon, just wanted to see what people think of this version so far.
Ki spell is really nice and pulls it together well.
Couple more thoughts/suggestions:
1-AC Bonus
2-Ki pool-spend ki to cast feather fall or levitate self only.
This replaces slow fall with feather fall and the AC Bonus avoids dead levels.
Keep Ki pool (magic) at 4th.
hmm, just going over ideas for what secondary class to put in, how do people feel about these secondaries?
Cavalier - Able to use flying to charge enemies, as you would on a mount
Druid/Wizard/Sorcerer/Arcanist - Able to command wind, like the Air Nomads of 'Avatar', somewhat
Alchemist - Special bombs that must be dropped instead of thrown.
Swashbuckler - a form of aerial deeds, to perform airborne stunts and attacks.
Magus/Warpriest - Throwing themed weapon buffs and a small pool of spells. Scaling weapon damage as these classes would offer.
Oracle/Shaman - Some spiritual connection to the heavens, sun, moon, stars or wind that allows for flight, and uses hexes/revelations
I vote cavalier, swashbuckler or alchemist.
Could use the Orders as a framework for different types of flyers maybe. Charger, wind controller, bomber, aerial acrobatic, etc. It gets the flight from monk and different combat styles from cavalier orders.
Panache and ki could work to pull off aerial stunts more easily.
Alchemist feels more versatile with bombs and a mutagen effect to pump up the combat. Wouldn't necessarily tie you to one style like the aforementioned orders could.
I agree to keep levitation at level one but increase the flight speed/maneuverability at earlier levels--an alchemist at 6th level with the wings discovery can fly faster with better maneuverability and as long in the current proposal.
As for damage output, maybe attacks with increasing damage die (from monk) the faster you fly, representing the inertia behind the blow.
I'm looking over Monk, here are some of the abilities I'm interested in keeping:
Evasion
Improved Evasion
Slow Fall (10ft - 90ft)
Fast Movement
Maneuver Training
High Jump
I was going to replace flurry of blows and stunning fist with flight, or rather an incremental quality of flight, so you can't just go around ace pilot style from the very start.
So that kinda leaves something to replace Ki Pool, Unarmed Damage and Bonus Feats. any ideas? Bombs and Bomb Discoveries may fit, if we're going alchemist, as could many other things.
I like the Monk/Alchemist mashup for a flyer. Here's a brain dump of sketches I've had for something similar. I could see some of these being monk or ki powers and others showing up as alchemist abilities or discoveries.
Thanks for letting me jump in here with my concept. I love so many of the MCA's all of you have done and appreciate the work all of you do with these, especially El. You guys/gals have some serious cool and crazy going on.
If anyone has any ideas to add to the FI that would be great. If not...I can't wait to try out my first Inheritor!
Reporting for duty, Taco!
My vote is for Seductive Infiltrator or Alluring Assailant although the other names aren't bad either.
This is definitely a class I've wanted for a while. Nice work team!
I'm not trying to provide a critique, just one reader's observation and suggestions. I really like this work. Great job team!
It is called feedback and we are open ears :).
Thank you for the purchase. Actually a number of your ideas are built along side the class as feats (extra evolution), and some already into it at mid level.
I think some of the things you mention would make a great archetype or two.
We will have a new document uploaded in about a week with the extras (Ie Chapter 4).
Yeah...I probably should have offered up some of these things during the playtest/feedback period. Life, you know...
Archetypes, huh? I think that sounds about right for the next book
I love the book…so much juicy goodness!!! Still need to find the time to really read through more of the classes.
The Metamorph grabbed my attention but seems to be not much more than a PC Eidolon minus the Summoner.
I recognize things are not finished in the book but was wondering if there is room in the class to do more with Genesis. As it stands I don't see a major benefit from it--the class becomes more MAD with diminishing returns--it helps your defense at a larger cost to your offense.
Maybe provide other class abilities that work off the Genesis ability score such as
-extra evolution points
-initiative bonus
-the ability to swap evo points on the fly up to the score
-donate Evo points to others (shared evolution)
-temporary evo points
-mercy-like effects that work with Vitality Surge
-domain-like ability usable 3+Genesis score x/day
-mutagen-like power that lasts 4 +Genesis score rounds/day + 2 rounds/level
I'm not trying to provide a critique, just one reader's observation and suggestions. I really like this work. Great job team!
I have been working on a class called "synergist" off and on for like 2 years. They essentially have a pool of points that they allocate to borrow the feats, skills, spells, and (to some small extent) class abilities of allies. Then I eventually give them the ability to lend out those abilities to allies (like giving the cleric a spell from the party wizard or catching the bard up with the fighter in terms of accuracy).
The only problem is that my synergist writeup is like 8 pages long and getting longer with every new class.
I know that what you are saying is not exactly the same but there ends up being a lot of variables to adjust for when you mimic stuff.
What you've worked on is how I envision it--taking and giving abilities to fit any role.
The pool point idea sounds good...but probably wouldn't work for this guy since he doesn't have anything like it. Maybe it could work like an Inquisitor's Judgment ability--limited uses but different ways to improve and ultimately multiple uses at the same time.
Another option could be 1 use (+Cha)/level, but the more abilities taken on at one time could have drawbacks. Doing it this way makes me think Rogue of X-Men. She could grab lots of powers, but too many minds in one head could mess her up a bit.
I see the Mesmerist as a buffer for sure (I think I can, I think I can...)
What would be neat in my mind is to see an ability (archetype?) that can really get into someone's head and take things out of it like spells, feats, abilities, etc. Maybe that's too much crossover with the Sandman Bard archetype but it feels like it could be fitting.
A martial Mesmerist could take fighting feats / styles and use them against him. Maybe even copy his own parties abilities if one has something that is really working against an opponent.
Anway, sounds fun to me--a bit of a copycat. Boom! There goes your archetype right there. ;)
My first instinct is to agree with Kineticists getting their elemental resistance.
What about those who want to control an element (Pyro) vs.
those who become an element (Human Torch)?
BTW...nice read on the playtest. I can totally visualize how it went down.
How bout some serious auto-hypnosis buffing? (please ignore this if I missed it in my read-through of the class)
Athletes use hypnosis to get over their failures--I could see the Mesmerist providing buffs to improve their companions abilities (like bardic inspire courage).
For example:
-skill/attack/damage/physical attribute bonus
-amp up spellcasters DC's or affects...like granting metamagic feats
-tricks that provide situational class features like trapfinding, evasion, flurry of blows, rage, or bonus feats.
That can get meta-gamey, but I see the mesmerist filling the bard's place as a good at support (and illusion). Why not the ultimate 5th party member by replicating skills as needed?
well the idea was it was a distilled ambrosia that gave him the ability to mimic a very specific portion of godhood upon drinking. what happens is based on what the AK wants at the time of drinking.
and i don't know, an AK doesn't strike me as someone who is stereo-typically especially intelligent, and has no real reason to be other than to be an alchemist, which he isn't really.
I agree with this--I see a cavalier as a charasmatic character and the AK, in his self-belief creates his ambrosia with a touch of his own will (charisma) generating the future effects.
An Alchemist would create the same effect but through research (intelligence).
The mechanics of using intelligence fit the game, but the flavor of using charisma fits the story.
@Bandw2: Thanks again for the link. Harrier might be what I'm looking to add.
@Bardess: some other speed powers I had looked into were things like an aging strike, creating wind/tornadoes by spinning in place, going intangible, manipulating the time stream to move opponents forward into the future, or the Velocity Master going back in time to get a do-over.
My speedy guy is based on the Flash comics I read as a kid. Definitely a little overpowered with some of his actions but watered down versions could still be fun.
Ladies and gentlemen, without more ado, I give to you the
** spoiler omitted **...
I know it's late feedback, but wanted to say I like the Velocity Master. Had been working on something similar myself with a monk chassis.
Someone upthread mentioned the ability to walk on water and the like--is there any way to give it a speed power like the ninja class ability Light Steps? That seems fitting.
With my creation I keep trying to come up with a strike ability that damage increases the further away the Velocity Master moves to attack but I'm not good with mechanics. I call it the Inertial Punch!
apply to monk liberably, watch as people cry because harrier stuff procs off of base movement and the monk's enhancement is on top of base movement not a part of it.
Wow! Thanks--that was a ...speedy response to my request. I'll have fun looking into it a bit more.
Ladies and gentlemen, without more ado, I give to you the
** spoiler omitted **...
I know it's late feedback, but wanted to say I like the Velocity Master. Had been working on something similar myself with a monk chassis.
Someone upthread mentioned the ability to walk on water and the like--is there any way to give it a speed power like the ninja class ability Light Steps? That seems fitting.
With my creation I keep trying to come up with a strike ability that damage increases the further away the Velocity Master moves to attack but I'm not good with mechanics. I call it the Inertial Punch!
What about a hex that allows the armor spines to "drink" from an opponent fueling more power into the armor? This would fit nicely with a grappler who drains the life from his opponents to transfer the energy to his patron (or so he thinks).
I would think this fits better with an intelligent armor which was nixed above.
Reminds me of the Devil's Armor from "Sword of Angels" by Marco.
Just realised I've still got the Gadgeteer (or Munitionist, for a better name) that would have been an earlier MCA, Ranger/Alchemist or Alchemist/Ranger. Which is more close to complete than the current Powder Bomber.
So I guess I should actually post that one at some point, I guess I'll do that one next.
Lurker Alert! I've been waiting to see what this one will be for some time now.
Please show me some Alchy/Ranger(or Rangery/Alchem) goodness!
The gungineer’s named gun does not misfire. Also I think shooting in a line because of the automatic quality would be good in confined areas. Unless you had something else in mind?
I like an automatic to have a spray effect--like a cone--in a confined area. Reduce the to-hit or damage but everyone or make it a reflex save like an area effect spell.
Tractor beam--for those pesky far-away magic users you want just a wee bit closer to your heavies.
How bout an anti-magic ion gun (or whatever you want to call it)? Maybe it turns off certain magic items...or called shots to localize the effect even more
Or it could interfere with the spell source of a caster to make it more challenging for them to do their thing.
That sounds a bit powerful so maybe a more drastic misfire chance or competing DC's to make it a little more challenging.
It shouldn't be that hard to do Riptide- you can make him an Air-specialist wizard. Also the spell foe hammer might make some sense. I'm making them all good, mind, so this should be interesting.
Looks like there are some style feats from Inner Sea Combat that fit Riptide's abilities.
You should check out the 'Talented' line of classes by Rogue Genius Games. You can pick the abilities you want for your concept. There are a couple threads about the products.
Here's an example for the 2014/2015 Danish school year (start and end dates are included in the breaks):
To sum up, In Denmark there are roughly 200 school days in a typical year.
Students in my area (Alaska) have 180 days of school. The breaks coincide roughly with those of everyone else--my wife is on spring break now. Too bad that doesn't exist in my industry. ;)
School starts in mid-August and ends in late May. I know some states are going to have extended school years because of all the snow days that have been missed this year. Fun times!
