Goblin Squad Member
|
An idea I just had for Roleplay support for Clerics: messages from your god not visible to other players. It could be a literal text message, or visuals; it could be implemented for many different uses, from scouting to an extra "minigame" for extra reward in combat to divination of all sorts of things. The important part is that it actually feels like a message from the gods.
My daughters play this "game" where they have to take care of a cat. Many times a day they get an alert that the cat needs to eat, pee, take a bath, etc
What if our characters had to take care of the normal, biological activities or suffer a debuff for not doing so?
Is this not asking for trouble as Dancey has turned down the possibility of a sit emote....could get a little messy
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
My daughters play this "game" where they have to take care of a cat. Many times a day they get an alert that the cat needs to eat, pee, take a bath, etc
What if our characters had to take care of the normal, biological activities or suffer a debuff for not doing so?
Does the debuff stack up when we're logged out so logging in is REALLY like waking up in the morning? What happens when a nausea ability/spell is used on us, treated to a graphic animation? Do adult diapers get invented to avoid that debuff for long formation battles? Is someone going to roleplay Pigpen? What are the mechanics behind taking a bath/ assassination attempts on someone in the bath?
-->Against this idea. It adds realism but not fun or rp opportunity.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
What about ..Monkeys , just think of all the things you could do with a monkey. You could have it sit on your shoulder and watch your back, you could train it to beg and be a source of income , you could train it as a ninja and send out a monkey ninja assassin. As a mage you could transfer your mind to the monkey....and be a monkey.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
At least AvenaOats read my idea… but I wanted to elaborate on some on some of the things I had in mind for using languages as a role play tool as I find sometimes it makes sense in my mind but not on my screen.
Your company has some one training linguistics, after dedicating some time to language they develop a great system for raiding parties to improve their scouting and signaling to the others in the raiding party.
Essentially he can teach others how to obtain a 25% increase in detecting movements within their targeted raiding area, giving the team more time to get into place.
The linguist then has to train the raiding team, so in order to get the 25 % increase the entire team has to master the communication ( could be tiers to it and you take the average of the entire group to determine the actual % of the 25% bonus your group can receive).
Being a dedicated scholar your Linguist then learns a few secrets on improving attack formations for a raiding team, and once again dedicates a few ranks to mastering raiding party tactics and stealth. He can now teach stealth or surprise attack so the party can get 25% bonus on those things.
.
Now the raiding team may have members that haven’t taken the time to learn the tactics or new recruits come along on the raid Since the team isn’t fully trained they would only get some of the bonuses, but if a true dedicated team were to take time to master everything they would certainly have a distinct advantage over most anyone they would meet on the road…
You could do the same thing with formations for defense of a settlement, give formations that have all taken time to learn the same language s a 25% increase to defense value, When the linguist master can teach them better attack formations from that defense position then they could also receive increases to attack bonuses. Once again adding new people or people not affiliated with the unit means reducing the bonus till the entire group has mastered the language.
Would work for siege weapons and other warfare options as well. Time to set up a siege engine, faster firing rate for teams that have the languages skills etc…
As for the discussion checklist this is where I come out on it…..
1. System , the linguist has to constantly train to learn new buffs for the troops to master, and the people you play with have to keep up to date on those skills in order to make use of them, I guess once everyone has access to the best buff then that formation is done, but adding new players to the formation means it would be weaker and they would have to ensure the new guys get training. Or you have to make sure mastering all language buffs is super difficult.
2. Human interaction , while the person devoting his time to learning the language is doing a 1 on 1 interaction, once he starts teach others you do create human interaction
3. Group Action - The end result is all about group interaction your formations, raiding parties, siege line or whatever example you come up with get buffs to do better than the average group that comes along and says yeah we know how to shoot one of these things at that wall over there or on the count of 3 we all jump out and get the stuff in that wagon!…
4. Classification – Domination, gives you and the people you play with all the time an advantage over those that do not
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Tuffon, still pondering languages.
A quick idea: Group buff for all members sharing language and proficiency ie simulate cohesion and communication efficacy?
You could have different languages between races, regions and more.
It would require at character creation race language, random region language and ideally lots to make characters more disparate.
Could bounce up to cohesion of a settlement ie race, language, religion mix.
Obviously counter-balance with diversity but lack of cohesion. Language playing a role in all these.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
While not ”roleplaying support” per se (in my opinion), here is something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue which chould be a fairly good fit to Ryan' criteria:
Concept
It has been hinted that settlements will have ”unrest” value, which could be determined (at least partly) by how restless the common folk (i.e. NPCs) feel themselves. If the ”unrest” value would comprise of the individual ”unrest” values of particular NPCs, why not allow player characters to use social skills (in addition to whips, swords, stealing and such) to impact how restless the common folk feel (in the hex they are inhabiting)?
Implementation
Implement a ”social” skill tree, which contains at least skills, which allow you to
- calm down citizens within the sphere of influence, i.e. decreasing their unrest value
- rile up citizens within the sphere of influence, i.e. increasing their unrest value
Calming down or riling up citizens should be an action, which would
- be easily recognizable (e.g. character waves hands in front of a bunch of NPC, who respond by generic cheers, boos and such)
- be easily interrupted (e.g. take a fairly long time such as one minute or more to perform)
- not be spammable (e.g. long cooldown such as ten minutes per use or a local debuff disallowing use within the same hex within certain period, could make for a pretty good “situational” skill)
- be easily detectable (e.g. a mark of the use of skill to the NPCs affected for a fairly long period)
- be visible to the settlement leadership via a subtle change in the (preferably hex specific) settlement unrest value
It would seem logical if such social skills would be charisma based, but preferably open to all players wanting to learn them (and meeting any prerequisites).
Curveballs
It might be preferable that he use of such a skill would not be totally predictable. Possible outcomes could be
- critical success causing a significant shift to the desired direction
- normal success: minor shift to the desired direction
- normal failure: no impact
- critical failure causing the NPCs to become aggressive towards the attempting player
Once the unrest value of an NPC (or several NPCs within certain distance of each other) reaches a critical level this could start an “angry mob” escalation, wherein the respective NPC(s) starting the escalation would start running around “riling up” more NPCs to join the “angry mob” resulting in loss of production in the affected area (and eventually, if not dealt with, the “angry mob” marching to the settlement / kingdom capital to give the powers that be a piece of their mind).
Why?
In my opinion this type of functionality would warrant the development resources needed because:
- it would enhance the game systems (unrest), which would be implemented in any case
- it should not require a lot of development resources at least in the art department
- it would allow players at a micro level to impact the game world at a macro level in a meaningful and persistent way
- it would allow an alternative way for players to meaningfully contribute to the success of their settlement other than participating in PvP, PvE or crafting
- it would scale extremely well (impact of one skill by one player use can be adjusted to the right level to make each skill use meaningful but not overpowered)
- it could be used either to boost your own settlement or hamper that of your foe (or hamper your own settlement and boost your foe, if that tickles your fancy) making it a meaninful part of at least the "domination" pillar
- it would be compatible with both group and solo gameplay as traveling politicians/preachers would usually be much better of with some protection on their side (but if you are willing to take your chances, can go solo too)
- it could result in interesting situations particularly when used against your own settlement, for example in case part of the settlement membership would not be happy with the current leadership
- it would make for some interesting choices: do you want to (literally) kill the dissent as soon as possible and ensure minimum hit on the production or allow try to limit its impact by using your social specialists to try to contain and hopefully dissolve the angry mob without turning to violence
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
My daughters play this "game" where they have to take care of a cat. Many times a day they get an alert that the cat needs to eat, pee, take a bath, etc
What if our characters had to take care of the normal, biological activities or suffer a debuff for not doing so?
Does the debuff stack up when we're logged out so logging in is REALLY like waking up in the morning? What happens when a nausea ability/spell is used on us, treated to a graphic animation? Do adult diapers get invented to avoid that debuff for long formation battles? Is someone going to roleplay Pigpen? What are the mechanics behind taking a bath/ assassination attempts on someone in the bath?
-->Against this idea. It adds realism but not fun or rp opportunity.
I think conditions, illnesses and spell effects could have animations, debuffs and other mechanics attached to them, to make them interesting and necessary.
I forget which MMO it was, when your character was sick he would spontaneously bend down and begin vomiting (AOC?). It could happen in mid combat, so it was always in your best interest to get cured.
I know there are plenty of games out there that have a sleep mechanic where you have to sleep for a few real time seconds (less than a minute) to simulate a full night's sleep. Lack of sleep resulted in a debuff of your ability scores and abilities.
Those two I see as fairly practical applications of RP mechanics.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Fruben,
Though I'm not certain everything you suggest would be easily implemented, I do like where you're going. I've always liked the idea of having some game mechanic that simulates diplomacy, social skills, real charismatic speaking, etc. A few games have tried, but nothing very successful comes to mind. I'm not certain how effective it would be on your opponents settlement...standing in the town square shouting speeches to drop the moral or DI of the NPCs there seems like a rather obvious and quick ride to your personal respawn point, but to influence your own citizens, I think i would be a nice addition. As you list with several of your bullets:
- it would allow players at a micro level to impact the game world at a macro level in a meaningful and persistent way
- it would allow an alternative way for players to meaningfully contribute to the success of their settlement other than participating in PvP, PvE or crafting
I could see this being quite handy for those playing the role of settlement religious leaders, politicians, ambassadors, etc. Could it even be used by a harvesting camp player boss to encourage his NPC workers to work harder, a settlement militia captain to boost the morale or effectiveness of his NPC guards, etc.? I think it is different enough from various bard buffs to be seen as its own skill and would certainly appeal (for the most part) to people who like to roleplay a more social role.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Fruben Look who's using Fallout Boy lyrics now, but maybe that's just who he is this week.
I actually get behind this idea. Settlements should be able to directly repair their restlessness and corruption at least a little bit and need a counter to enemies skirting the borders breaking law just to rile up dissent. It could be a core skillset for Aristocrats and give Bards a vital role in pre-war ramp up. (It would make PO famous once a settlement war is over before started because a well-coordinated bard nuke weakened the settlement so badly it was never able to really defend itself)
It's not a mvp (minimum viable product) idea but neither are player run settlements. When they do roll out it would be nice to see some incarnation of this as part of it.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@ AvenaOats, Yep basically that is it, think like a baseball manager signing what he wants his pitcher and players to do, instead of going out and having a long discussion with every player or yelling it across the field. Or a pit crew in nascar they don’t have time to explain what went wrong they each just focus on a job and hand signs and such to let each other know if they have to change things on the fly. The more practiced your group, village, military formation is the better off the group is going to perform.
People create languages all the time, look at some of the short hand acronyms on these forums and those used specifically for PFO, If I never played a MMO and came here to read these forums I would often find myself wanting to buy a vowel or a hint to the meaning?
I am wondering if it would be possible to simulate that cohesion with people training language skills with in their chosen groups and receiving buffs for doing so.
One of the most limiting factors would be it would exclude newer people from joining established groups, so would have to work on things like comprehend language spells for the new guy, so established groups do not alienate new players to the game.
This would also cut back on settlement hopping, as learning the region language buffs for one place, wouldn’t mean you can step right into a new settlement with the same buffs.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think conditions, illnesses and spell effects could have animations, debuffs and other mechanics attached to them, to make them interesting and necessary.
I forget which MMO it was, when your character was sick he would spontaneously bend down and begin vomiting (AOC?). It could happen in mid combat, so it was always in your best interest to get cured.
I know there are plenty of games out there that have a sleep mechanic where you have to sleep for a few real time seconds (less than a minute) to simulate a full night's sleep. Lack of sleep resulted in a debuff of your ability scores and abilities.
Those two I see as fairly practical applications of RP mechanics.
Why bend down and vomit during the battle. Vomit in your opponent's face. A great distraction for your enemy. Projectile Vomit has always been a nice weapon.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hope this isn't a goblin squad exclusive discussion; my opinion is pretty simple.
give us a lot more meaningful, interesting things to do than just killing stuff online. That's pretty much it. Allow less combative characters to have fun not getting into combative situations. the rest will almost write itself. Probably too many examples cited before me here, but that's the core. If the game continually comes back to killing stuff and the other activities become chores to avoid, then perhaps something has gone wrong.
My two cents, brought to you by yours truly. Carry on.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Hope this isn't a goblin squad exclusive discussion; my opinion is pretty simple.
give us a lot more meaningful, interesting things to do than just killing stuff online. That's pretty much it. Allow less combative characters to have fun not getting into combative situations. the rest will almost write itself. Probably too many examples cited before me here, but that's the core. If the game continually comes back to killing stuff and the other activities become chores to avoid, then perhaps something has gone wrong.
My two cents, brought to you by yours truly. Carry on.
I've got to admit, I like the idea of just experiencing stuff. This is one area I think UO and Runescape did well with eg fishing and logging and boating and so on.
Also think it fits the discussion on Crowdforging RP, people like the therapeutic "stand and stare" stuff sometimes.
|
|
Well, figured I'd add disclaimer since membership seemed to be a trend in this particular thread; not that it would have stopped me, heh.
But AvenaOats has one of the right ideas of it. Experiencing stuff is one of the best parts of life, and I see no reason that something you do for recreation should shy away from things like that.
give us traders who take pelts and meat for coin or goods. Give us waterfalls to go over on a raft when we get too distracted watching the treeline go by. Give us trees to climb and vines to swing on. Give us instrumental minigames so those with a bardic mindset can actually leave their mark and maybe even compose their own tunes; hold contests and the winner might get his tune worked into the soundtrack. Give us festival planning tools so we can hold our own ingame celebrations for our deity, guild, wedding or whatever feels right. give the game the true right to be called "sandbox" by letting us choose our goals more freely and making tangible reasons to pursue them. Give us the ability to have no goal at all by letting us find more ways to goof off. Not every adventurer has to face the greatest challenges the world can throw at them and preserve the future of the material plane. some of us just...have some adventures.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I've got to admit, I like the idea of just experiencing stuff. This is one area I think UO and Runescape did well with eg fishing and logging and boating and so on.
Also think it fits the discussion on Crowdforging RP, people like the therapeutic "stand and stare" stuff sometimes.
I don't know if they have any plans to put stuff like this in but I have played some games before where they had a engaging fishing minigame that I would often spend hours on.
Perhaps catching a truly remarkable fish can be turned into a delicious meal that can offer some type of bonus or healing.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Perhaps with a fishing pole equipped we get six hotbar skills we can use depending on the behavior of the fish and how badly we have used stamina. Make lures, hooks and bait hard to come by, lost with the fish unless we are successful bringing it to shore. And fish scales of course are a valuable spell component.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One thing I have failed to mention, an important reason for sitting in chairs... Screen Shots.
Players like to take screen shots, particularly group pictures, and being able to interact with the environment with animations and with emotes lends themselves to that.
Those screen shots not only bring a company together (cohesion) but when they are made public, they are a free and effective advertisement for the game.
People like to play MMOs that show a sense of community.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Point for Bluddwolf. Environmental interaction is another thing sorely lacking in MMO's that can work miracles to elevate your game. I transitioned from Dark age of Camelot to World of Warcraft when WoW was brand new. The difference in involvement and interactivity was ENORMOUS. The simple ability to right-click a chair and sit down; the power to mine a mineral vein or harvest an herb; especially those unorthodox quests which had you either use a mount or vehicle, or even transform into something else entirely, were just a breath of fresh air. Even just sitting down to munch a piece of bread for a minor buff was cool. Little things like this, that help bring virtual characters and real people just slightly closer, are going to be key.
Have wagons traveling between towns where a few people can just jump on and hitch a ride as it passes by. Don't think I've seen that in an MMO before. Include actual board/card games in the world so people can enjoy the taverns all the more. they need not have any greater reward tied to them than the gold players bet and the fun of watching them play out.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
My daughters play this "game" where they have to take care of a cat. Many times a day they get an alert that the cat needs to eat, pee, take a bath, etc
What if our characters had to take care of the normal, biological activities or suffer a debuff for not doing so?
This entire post is much like the Tomagatchi toy from the mid-90s. You were basically babysitting an infant and had to "raise" it to maturity. It needed to be fed, comforted, played with, and millions were sold. No idea if this would be something other players would do...I wouldn't, but you never know.
Some things might be fun to work in. Wonders might be a good team effort. Wonders that provide a significant buff, or give a small chance to summon the favor of the chosen deity. The wonder would require many thousands of units of materials, thousands of man hours of labor, and wouldn't last long, but might give a terrific buff such as a short but massive burst in gathering, farm growth, animal migrations in the area or even opening a rare dungeon type encounter for the builders (like a divine quest to conquer an other worldly army...large scale stuff here).
Smaller scale things might include slowing down things like general construction of buildings, bridges, towers and siege engines.
Artwork would be a great way to have players invest time in specific projects...sculpture, woodworking (totems, logs for log cabins) mortar work for large bricklaying projects, actual painting or pictures or portraits.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Also, I noted the advantage/disadvantage list mentioned earlier. Gamma World had a list you rolled on. You got a decent positive and two negatives, or a good positive and two pretty big negatives, or a great bonus and a couple of tough penalties. some of the penalties were harsh too. some characters were amphibians and couldn't stray too far from water, but were awesome in waterborne adventures.