Hi,
for a game I´m invited to, I´m currently making my new character.
To group so far consists of:
Cleric (Melee/Support)
Zen Archer
Ranger with whip and combat AC
Fighter
Sorcerer
Currently lvl 4, playing carrion crown.
As I think the group is already well rounded in the damage department, but somewhat lacks skills and support, I decided to play a monk who does this. I know that a wizard or witch would mechanically be a better choice, but as I´m somehow jaded to play the same character I have seen/read about so many times with always the same spell choice and so on, I´m always trying to use a class in different ways. Not that nobody has done this before, but at least I haven´t seen it in play and didn´t read 1 million threads about it ;)
TLDR: Don´t wanna play run-of-the-mill concepts, so chose to play this:
Halfling Sensei Qinggong Underfoot Adept Ki Mystic
First question: Is it legal? As far as I can see, it is?
Stats are: str 10, dex 16, con 12, int 14, wis 18, cha 10
(Pointbuy 25)
What he can do for the party:
- Using bodyguard in combination with Helpful Trait to give adjacent allies +4 vs attacks 4 times per round.
- Blundering offense to give adjacent allies +2 Dodge to ac
- use Inspire courage/competence as a bard
- use (low level) wands with Dangerously Curious trait
- Trip enemies (using wisdom and improved trip)
- aid another to give +4 to 1 attack (attacking using wisdom)
- at level 6 use barkskin and other ki abilities on others (with a ki pool of 1/2 lvl + 2 + wis)
- use Ki to give +4 insight to a skill (from lvl 6 on also to others)
- all knowledge (as long as I have 1 Ki) skills with +8 (1 skillpoint in each)
- "ok" skills (6/level or 7 if I´m using favored class)
- buff his AC quite high (1 size, 3 dex, 1 monk, 4 wis, 4 Mage Armor, 2 Barkskin, 5 fighting defensivly, 4 dodge for 1 ki = 34 at level 4)
- use Adoptable Luck 3/Day to add +2 luck bonus to roll
- let people reroll saves/attacks for 2 Ki as an immidiate action
What do you think about this?
As I love playing versatile characters: Which items or others build choices could I choose to add more versatility?
Would it make more sense to not use Underfoot adept? I would gain an other bonus feat at first lvl and stunning fist, also I could trade away high jump at lvl 5 for true strike to give it to other party members?
Which feats could be beneficial (currently planning to take Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard, Cautious Fighter and Blundering Defense)?
How would you rate in terms of powerlevel?
Would you like to play with this character? If not, why?
Any input is much appreciated.
Might be a fun character. A few problems though, no offence at all based on how you want to play and minus some key defense abilities. You give up flurry, no to hit bonus with 10 str and fighting defensive. Lower damage with size small attacks. Would have a decent Ki pool, but carrion crawl has a lot of multiple fights per day, so would strain the pool pretty fast, with no Ki pool this guy might loose fun factor. Mage Armor from a wand I am guessing? No fast movement for Halfling might hurt, loosing evasion will be noticeable.
This isn't to knock the concept, just having run Carrion Crawl, your all defensive/assist built, while giving up key monk abilities might leave you on the short end of the stick. Remember that a good GM will scale up fights with a six man party. Also without spoiling the AP, this one has a large variety of mobs, all horror based, undead, shapechangers, constructs, aliens, etc. so may want a bit more offense to assist with boss type encounters, there are lots of them.
Thanks for replying!
Yes, MA from Wand.
Do you really think damage is so much needed? You are right, I will probably never do damage with this character, but even without Ki I can still use Inspire Courage, Bodyguard, Trip and Aid Another (which both use wisdom to hit) (also I would probably save the Ki for the tough encounters). Wouldn´t this be enough to constribute? Especially in a party with 4 PCs all attacking with weapons? We will probably be 5 persons more often the 6.
Thanks, but not really the direction I was planning to go. The tripping is more of a thing I would like to do beside the other stuff.
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I'm playing a similar Helpful build. I dumped STR down to 5, so my damage is at most 1d4-3, but that hasn't mattered.
My normal combat round is:
Can I HELP a melee character? Aid to hit, then move to flank (+6 to hit!).
Can't do that? Throw a tanglefoot bag vs ranged touch (1/2 speed, -4DEX, -2 to hit, concentration checks to cast, and then DC15 Reflex or they can't move)
I also try to suck up attacks of opportunity and put myself in a position to use mine to use bodyguard or trip an opponent.
I absolutely love playing the character. I was really worried that he wouldn't be fun/effective. But everyone loves having Jeffy the Helpful Halfling around.
One thing to keep in mind is that most of the Qinggong abilities (including barkskin) are self-only. So unless there's something I'm missing, you might have to adjust the approach somewhat. I like the idea of someone going against the grain though.
Ahhh, thanks Brad, I missed that.
Thanks for replying!
Monk of the 4 Winds doesn´t work with Underfoot Adept. Even then, I dislike taking choices based on high lvl, which is not entirly clear I´ll ever see with this character.
I refined the concept:
Either using Human or Halfelf, still not decided. Changing Stats to Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 20, Cha 8
Reason: Using a Monk reach weapon (Double Kama) for having the option to trip,disarm and dirty trick instead of just tripping. Also retaining Stunning Fist.
Also I get to keep High jump and can trade it for True Strike, because I don´t need to take Underfoot Adept. I wasn´t really thrilled about the movement stuff anyways, because I´m planning to stay right next to my allies.
Halfelf gives me exotic weapon prof right from the start. I´m thinking about taking power attack at 3, to do a bit of damage if needed.
Also thinking about using Arcane Training from halfelf, to use wands without UMD (maybe witch spelllist?) and opening up a trait (dangerously curious). Do you think its worth trading away all favored class bonuses for this?
With human I would have 1 Ki for each 4 lvls more, but I think half elf offers more interesting options?
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For a d8 character with melee aspirations I would put the favoured class into HP every time. That's just me.
Couple things to note about your build;
- human can't take EWP at level 1 because of the BAB requirement - but I think you know that already...
- you can use the double chained Kama at reach and flurry with it all the time. You can also threaten and flurry adjacent with UAS. So be sure to pick up combat reflexes!
- power attack will net you 3:1 with the DC Kama when you two hand it, which is a nice bonus.
Thanks, already knew it, thats why I way thinking about using halfelf.
I don´t have flurry, I´m planning to use it more or less for the reach. Also I took PA with the halfelf variant, just to have a backup plan if damage is needed. All in all I think halfelf works better.
You are propably right, especially with con 12. I think I will roll for hitdice and decide then.
One thing to keep in mind too with Qinggong you also have the option of Deny Death, which why having an admittedly unfortunate requirement to become "useful" is very darn useful when it does activate. Doesn't use any ki either which is nice. Only downside is it does require you to go below 0 hp to take effect, but it provides a nice little security blanket.
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I would say that your first build is very viable, the bonuses you give to other people more than make up for your own lack of damage output. I have a bard that hasn't made an attack roll in the last 3levels of play, But still contributes through massive amounts of buffing and ooc utility.
The flag bearer feat goes a long way in helping a build like this. Unfortunately, charisma is monks only real dump stat. The pseudo bardic music the sensei gets is great, but limited in rounds. Grab lingering song to triple the rounds per day, and that should cover most adventuring days.
Another thing to consider is that aiding another's attacks in a round means you can't fight defensively, you have to make an attack action to gain the defensive fighting bonuses. I know you didn't say that you were in your posts, but the additonal bonus to hit is very much appreciated if you can figure out a way to keep your defenses up simultaneously.
One option to look at might be a dip into empyreal sorceror. This gets you wisdom based spontaneous casting of shield and Mage armour, and with the practised spell caster trait (not called that, but that's what it does) you would have caster level 3.
Having said that, at level 5, you double the bonus from inspire courage, so delaying that May not be the best idea.
Also, at level 6 you get the ability to give another a +4 bonus on their skill checks by using a ki point, which means in addition to the plus 2 from inspire competence, and the +4 from helpful aid another, you can give any other character +10 on a skill check, as long as you can roll a ten for your own to aid another. That's pretty damn good in my books.
I think trying to make this character deal damage as well as support is going to pull it too many ways at once, a problem that's monks have from the get go. I would suggest going for "full retard support". It's great fun, your party will love you (as long as they can find damage elsewhere, which it seems like they can) and it means you can spend your characters resources elsewhere than trying to force mediocre damage through.
I thought about dipping into inquisitor, but decided against it, as it would delay all the monk stuff noticable. Sorc would be good as well, but again, I don´t wanna delay my other abilities.
Hm, maybe you are right with the damage, but I think it could work out with my current plan. Only taking 14 str and PA should be enough to constribute. At lvl 4 it is +9 (1d6+7) (with advice up). At lvl 6 it will be +10 (1d6+11). (or 1d6+13 if I take Arcane Strike, which I probably will, because of Gloves of Arcane Striking).
Yes, I´m quite excited about the skill combination, already thought about it ;)
Flag bearer is too hard to get due to Cha 15. I´m not sure if Lingering Performance would work?
And if fighting defensivly and aid another doesn´t work together the halfelf build becomes even more useful, as I won´t hit much with halfling fighting def for Blundering Defense.
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What you will find is that your alright damage, when put up against any kind of resistance, will approach negligence. Especially given the fact that you are using unarmed strikes. You will struggle to overcome damage reductions, and compared to the dedicated melee characters, end up adding little to a straight up damage battle.
But if you feel you can make it work, then more options are always better than fewer. I think focusing on a combat maneuver would be stronger though, if you want to engage in melee, as they don't care what your damage is.
Lingering performance works, I think. Advice is treated as identical to bardic performance. But I guess run it past the dm first to be sure.
Arcane striking is certainly a great way to stack up further aid another bonuses, and would give your actual damage a slight boost, so yeah, get on that train.
It is a shame that halfling so don't have any readily available spell like abilities to qualify them for arcane strike. The ac bonus you can add through blundering defence is huge.
In my build, intake a single eleven of unarmed fighter for free crane style, 3 ranks in acrobatics and the feat for an extra 2ac when fighting defensively, and pick up a tonfa at some point. This end up with defensive fighting giving -2/+7 , and allies get +3 ac from standing next to you, and then some more from bodyguard.
One final option may be the use of Draconic defender, this is a monster feat, but one that pcs can qualify for. Pre req- toughness and con 17, but grants a single lay the total bonus you get from fighting defensively as natural armour. With this and blundering defence, you can make your teammates damn hard to touch.