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It instead rolls an extra dice. That isn't considered a bonus in any other case where you add multiple rolls to make a result.
For example, an enlarged greatsword's third d6 is not a bonus. The +2 to Strength is, though.
Consider also the following hypothetical Rogue Advanced Talent:
Hey Guys, Look, I'm Still Relevant! (Ex): Whenever you roll a skill check, roll the d20 twice and add the results (maximum 20) before applying your bonuses.
For this ability, the second d20 is not a bonus, it's a separate dice.
Also, unrelatedly to it not being a bonus, it's not really temporary because it has no listed duration. It affects the entire check, regardless of how long it takes.
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but temporary bonuses...do not contribute, as the duration over which the Day Job check is made is undefined and represents a longer amount of time than a spell’s duration would permit the bonus to remain.
Inspiration has no time limit, so it isn't temporary. It works on the whole check. Even a week-long Craft or Profession check (now don't ask me when you spend the Inspiration pool point for that week-long check).
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Inspiration works on any skill check. Those are just the ones the standard investigator can use it on without spending a point of inspiration. There are also several investigator talents that expand the list, so it's possible to get free uses of inspiration on profession, diplomacy, bluff, and many other skills.
The question would have at least two parts.
1) Can an investigator spend a point of inspiration to add 1d6 to a day job roll?
2) If an investigator does not need to spend a point of inspiration to use it on a skill, can they then add 1d6 to their day job roll?
For 1, I would think no, because inspiration is a limited resource, and thus not a permanent/always active effect.
For 2, I would think yes, since you are no longer expending a resource (points of inspiration) to use it with the skill, so you can effectively use it on every roll of that skill.
To my knowledge there's never been an official answer to this, though.
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While I had not thought about it until just now, I would be inclined to allow it, much like you can use crafter's fortune. Is it abuse to add it to a craft, especially one hat could be boosted by the above spell? I would say that it is still just a day job check, and as such, won't be breaking things too bad!
But an official ruling would be nice.
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If only someone good enough with rules to be hired as a Paizo designer would weigh in on the topic...
But inspiration is only used "when you make the check." It doesn't matter how long the "check" takes. Even though it takes at least a minute to shift a creature's attitude through diplomacy you only have to spend one use of inspiration, not one per round. Or if you try to assemble a trap that takes 10 minutes, you only have to use one use of inspiration. Given that, I think it's fine to use any X uses per day character ability that is used "when you make a check" with no prep required. If it's something that grants you a limited duration bonus (like a spell, cognatogen, or the bit of luck cleric domain power) then no.
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I see Mark's post above, but that doesn't completely answer the question. It depends on whether a day job check is treated like a single check or as the accumulation of multiple uses of the skill that take place off screen. I'd be fine either way, as inspiration is different than most abilities in that it isn't limited by time. But it would take something from Mike or John to avoid table variation, because the day job check is a PFS mechanic. Inspiration may function similar to crafter's fortune, and that may be a good argument to allow it, but right now an exception is only made for Crafter's Fortune.
It's similar to the issue of Investigators crafting alchemical items or purchasing poisons. It made sense that it should be allowed based on the similarity to the alchemist's abilities, but it was left to table variation because the Investigator was not specifically mentioned in the FAQ/rule until John's blog post clarified things.
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I don't see "paranoia" anywhere.
I simply want to run things consistently, within the framework of the rules.
I think Ferious Thune's reasoning up thread makes the most sense, to me, and it's how I'll run my tables, and my Investigator:
Can an investigator spend a point of inspiration to add 1d6 to a day job roll?
no, because inspiration is a limited resource, and thus not a permanent/always active effect.
If an investigator does not need to spend a point of inspiration to use it on a skill, can they then add 1d6 to their day job roll?
yes, since you are no longer expending a resource (points of inspiration), so you can effectively use it on every roll of that skill.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I would say Yes. Inspiration doesn't have any listed duration; it just applies to a single check.
If you had to craft an item (taking 7 days), you can use Inspiration on it. (Well, if PFS allowed crafting.)
The Crafter's Fortune spell has a duration of 1day/level, so until level 7, you can't even enchant someone for the entire time of a craft check. But it's allowed for day jobs in PFS. So if Crafter's Fortune is allowed, then why not Inspiration?
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Crafter's Fortune is the exception, not the rule.
Consider that Guidance is an at-will cantrip, that can literally be cast every 6 seconds, all day long, and it is not allowed on Day Job checks.
Crafter's Fortune is special. It's different. We don't know why it was chosen as the savior of limited resource use, but it was. It should not be used to argue that other limited resources be included. It is the Highlander. There can be only one.
To answer Justin Sluder, I believe the comment right above your post answers your question. If spending Inspiration points is free, and limited in no way, then it should be allowed on your Day Job checks.
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Crafter's Fortune is the exception, not the rule.
Consider that Guidance is an at-will cantrip, that can literally be cast every 6 seconds, all day long, and it is not allowed on Day Job checks.
Crafter's Fortune is special. It's different. We don't know why it was chosen as the savior of limited resource use, but it was. It should not be used to argue that other limited resources be included. It is the Highlander. There can be only one.
To answer Justin Sluder, I believe the comment right above your post answers your question. If spending Inspiration points is free, and limited in no way, then it should be allowed on your Day Job checks.
What I should say to clarify my earlier comments is this. I believe my interpretation is how it should be ruled based on the current rules/FAQs. As Nefreet pointed out, Crafter's Fortune is the only exception currently allowed. Not things that are similar to Crafter's Fortune. Just Crafter's Fortune. If the rules said "and similar effects," that would be different.
The clarification is, I think Inspiration could be presented as a similar effect to Crafter's Fortune. That doesn't mean that it is legal. It means that there is an argument to be made that it should be legal. If someone wants to take the time to write up a proposal that demonstrates why Inspiration functions like Crafter's Fortune and ask campaign leadership to add it to the list of exceptions, then I encourage them to do so. If that request is not argumentative and is presented in a logical way, I'm sure that Mike and John will at least consider it and make a determination on whether or not that is something they want to allow (their own time allowing). What I don't think we can do is to make that decision for them.
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Crafter's Fortune works (and is listed as an exception) because it has a duration of 24 hours.
Does the Inspiration bonus on a skill check last that long?
The inspiration bonus doesn't have a duration. It is used as part of a check. It doesn't matter whether the check is an immediate action or takes 6 days, you only use inspiration once (whether or not it is free to use with that skill).
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Hmmm. Looks like the wording on Inspiration was never quoted in this thread.
An investigator is beyond knowledgeable and skilled—he also possesses keen powers of observation and deduction that far surpass the abilities of others. An investigator typically uses these powers to aid in their investigations, but can also use these flashes of inspiration in other situations.
An investigator has the ability to augment skill checks and ability checks through his brilliant inspiration. The investigator has an inspiration pool equal to 1/2 his investigator level + his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). An investigator's inspiration pool refreshes each day, typically after he gets a restful night's sleep. As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check, including any on which he takes 10 or 20. This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll. The investigator can use inspiration on any Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spellcraft skill checks without expending a use of inspiration, provided he's trained in the skill.
Inspiration can also be used on attack rolls and saving throws, at the cost of expending two uses of inspiration each time from the investigator's pool. In the case of saving throws, using inspiration is an immediate action rather than a free action.
One of the Investigator Talents that removes the cost to use Inspiration for certain skills:
An investigator can use his inspiration ability when attempting Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Profession, and Sense Motive checks without expending uses of inspiration, provided he's trained in the skill.
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Okay, thread is a few days old, but on a topic I was doing some looking on. So here you have a class feature contributing to day job checks. Is there any particular reason a Summoner can't have their Eidolon contribute? Eidolon usage is not a limited resource. It might not be 24 hours... but it can be every waking minute except the first one when you wake up and do the summoning. That would seem to be just as valid as permitting the Investigator to use Inspiration, and disallowing it seems to be a horrifically pedantic clinging to the 24 hour thing.
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To be fair, I'm not sure it really matters if people added temporary bonuses, inspiration, or Eidolons (yes I know at least 2 of those 3 are illegal) to Day Job rolls. Sure early level you'd be well ahead on gold (possibly) but the fame limits certainly limit you. By high level it is probably 1 more enchantment or medium level wondrous item. If by some miracle someone had prosperity and slow tracked every scenario and got max gold on day jobs it's 19800 extra gold (and oh yeah I'm mildly certain this is impossible, or at least out of the realm of doing anything useful besides a day job). Sure it's nothing to sneeze at, but playing up a couple times does the same thing.
[sarcasm]Oh no, something and Eidolon actually can't do[/sarcasm]
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I'm putting max ranks in Profession: Barrister with or without being able to use it for day jobs. Fluffy Maulington Esq. will eventually prove that just because you're a talking wolf outsider abomination doesn't mean you can't have a successful career at law :) Maybe I should put my next point of Evolution into a Profession: Barrister skill boost... (in the end, my guess is the ability to do that is the greater reason why it's not allowed).
I suppose I'm probably more disappointed about it because I am apparently the only person on the face of the planet to be playing my Summoner in a flavorful manner rather than building a murderclawpounce death machine - I've actually been looking forward to Unchained in part because it might even make Fluffy *more* powerful while retaining the flavor (even if I lose my 1/day level 4 casting of Haste).
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actually, my Eidolon is never seen in combat (hardly ever seen at all!). Normally my first action when things get dangerous for Smoke is to "disappear" her. So I don't think she could count as a "murderclawpounce death machine". She is more of a kitten than a tiger...
She has almost no combat abilities, and really doesn't relate well with others... mostly she's just a day-dream I had as a teenage boy... lol!
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Oh skill-dolon's are actually pretty common, it's just as a class summoners are far more problematic than any other class (in a lot of people's experience). Also, I could be wrong, but iirc the Eidolon counting/not counting for a day job discussion started with involved the synthesist summoner being merged/not merged with the Eidolon for the purposes of a check. Frankly if your Eidolon got it's own separate day job with accompanying bank account (via direct deposit) and could spend its gold it really wouldn't bother me (and would totally fit for an Eidolon-at-law). However, having your class feature full out do your job seems a little wonky IMO.
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I am apparently the only person on the face of the planet to be playing my Summoner in a flavorful manner rather than building a murderclawpounce death machine
You're definitely not alone.
My Summoner is a Dhampir from Geb who RPs himself as a Necromancer, with max ranks in Profession (Teacher). He only joined the Society to help pay down his student debt from attending the prestigious (and costly) Ebon Mausoleum, where he now teaches part time (on Tuesdays).
His Eidolon has all the Undead Flavorings and is like +19 on Disguise (take 10 for a DC 29) to look like a Skeletal Champion. Complete with Adamantine Greatsword and all.
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However, having your class feature full out do your job seems a little wonky IMO.
You mean like every single alchemist?
I agree with Rilka, people don't complain about the Eidolons made by people that are making them thematically. They just complain about the overpowered ones (that are still legal). My wife has what BartonOliver called a "skill-dolon" and it's worked just fine.
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Oddly, though the alchemist gets a bonus to crafting potions that bonus doesn't apply to day job checks. Even if it did though, the alchemist would still be the one brewing the "potions", not a summoned creature performing a dance in the streets for money, so no not exactly what I meant.
I'd say that any alchemist using craft alchemy for their dayjob check would argue that they're crafting alchemical items and thus their bonus would apply. I don't know what else you'd craft with alchemy if not alchemical items. While technically you're probably right in that it doesn't apply for dayjob checks in PFS, I guarantee you most alchemists are probably using it anyways.
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I'd say that any alchemist using craft alchemy for their dayjob check would argue that they're crafting alchemical items and thus their bonus would apply. I don't know what else you'd craft with alchemy if not alchemical items. While technically you're probably right in that it doesn't apply for dayjob checks in PFS, I guarantee you most alchemists are probably using it anyways.
Understandably but by the rules it doesn't apply, it may even be FAQ'd I can't remember off the top of my head. (It's not a permanent bonus since it doesn't apply to every craft alchemy check, and isn't a bonus that says +x to day job checks, so it is RAW a no go. (As someone with an alchemist, I find it a fairly odd one))
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Hmm, a question about something applying to every use of the skill. There's a Taldor trait that's +1 to a Perform skill, +5 for the purposes of making money. Would that count for Day Job? Sure sounds like it should, but it technically does not meet the qualification of being for all purposes of the skill.
If it does... well, I'm highly considering making a Street Performer Bard using the Prosperity boon I just got. You're still allowed to take Taldor traits if you're in Sovereign Court, right? Should in theory be able to start with about +20 to day job at Level 1, and still be quite effective as a party support character :)
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I actually started with a +20 at first level - then re-created the PC when I leveled to 2nd...
Ability: +5 (20 CHA)
Ranks: +1
Class: +3
Trait: +4 (Inner Beauty)
Untyped: +3 (Skill Focus)
Racial: +2 (musetouched Aasimar)
Circumstance: +2 (MW instrument)
so ... taking 10 netted me 150gp, or 450 gp for my first 3 games...
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Inner Beauty is 1/day, so it can't be used to enhance Day Job rolls.
Also, taking 10 would only result in a total of 30, which is 75gp, not 150gp.
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Inner Beauty is 1/day, so it can't be used to enhance Day Job rolls.
Also, taking 10 would only result in a total of 30, which is 75gp, not 150gp.
Assuming it was a street performer bard, they have gladhanding which earns them double money on performance checks.