Just finished the second encounter in our PbP playtest.LINK
5-man party.
Encounter 1 (2 Ankhegs)CR.5:
Ankhegs got a surprise round but Shaman and Bloodrager made their DC 25 perception checks to notice them burrowing underground so I did let them act normally.
This encounter was supposed to be easy, and thats how it played out.I tried to separate the party into two groups and it worked .
The Bloodrager didn't even use his Bloodrage but pretty much soloed one of the Ankhegs.The Slayer came in late and was surprised , so he used his move action to use Favoured target against one of the Ankhegs, but he didn't even get to profit since the Bloodrager knocked it unconcious before he could attack,leaving him only to finish it of completely,the arcanist used a Force Strike against the downed ankheg after he missed with his snowball the round before.
Shaman and Brawler took on the other Ankheg on the other corner of the map,the Brawler failed its trip attempt by exactly 10 and was knocked prone.The 2 of them could reduce the Ankheg to 1 hitpoint before it burrowed underground and got away.
The Bloodrager was the only one to take damage during the encounter.
Encounter 2 (3Caryatid Columns and a Shining Sentinel)CR.7:
This encounter sounds hefty but I removed the Shatter Weapons SQ from the Caryatid Columns and only left it to the Sentinel.
The party had a few Problems dealing with the DR 5/- ,constructs.The Slayer took a lot of damage and had to withdraw, But not before doing some decent damage. Bloodrager again was stingy with his Bloodrage and didn't start raging before round 3. Brawler used his Martial Maneuvers to gain Weapon Spec, Shaman cast Bulls Strenght and the Arcanist Glitterdusted and Blinded 3 of the constructs including the Shining Sentinel.
It took the Party a total of 6 rounds to take them all down and they took quite a bit of damage doing so despite the fact that 3 of 4 opponents where blinded for most of the fight.I forgot to roll saves aginst Glitterdust each round but with the columns +0 Will saves it probably wouldn't have done much.
I really had low rolls all through the encounter, if I had rolled a bit better the Party would have been in serious trouble.
The star of the encounter for me where Brawler and Arcanist,Force Strike is pretty solid ,on par with magic missile but doesn't allow SR, and the Brawler did great damage with brawlers flurry.
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About the Classes:
Bloodrager:
Not much different from the Barbarian at this level although I still think the Arcane Bloodrage is pretty crazy and Abyssal is too.Would have to see it at a higher level.
Shaman:
Not better or worse then a Cleric , this class is balanced as can be IMO.
Slayer:
The move action for Favoured Target slows it down, especially against many enemies that drop fast its almost useless.
Against big tough guys it pays of though.I think this class could use some more perks.Medium Armor Prof would help I think. Otherwise good.
Arcanist
Some of the Arcane Exploits are really good. I think this class is flat out better than a Sorcerer and thats not so good.So far it didn't really cause much problems , but still.
Brawler
Monk/Fighter is a good description and thats how it looks in game. Can Hit hard good AC solid Hitpoints. I think this class will make some people happy.
I played 2 PCs in this game, Jake the Brawler and Rotton the Arcanist. I built Jake myself but Sleet Storm built Rotton for me. I also occasionally played a Slayer, Shaman, and Bloodrager. I'll have the most feedback for Jake and the least for the last three.
Jake
Neutral Brawler 4
Medium natural humanoid (human)Init +2; Senses Perception +8
Defense
AC 20, touch 14, flat-footed 16 (+5 +1 chain shirt, +2 Dex, +1 dodge, +1 class)Hit points 36 (4d10+4)
Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +3
Offense
Speed 30 ft.Melee brawler flurry +8/+8 (1d8+5) or
Unarmed strike +10 (1d8+5)Ranged brawler flurry shuriken +5/+5 (1d2+4) or
Shuriken +7 (1d2+4)Special Attacks brawler's flurry (Two-Weapon Fighting), unarmed strike 1d8
Statistics
Str 19, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 8BAB +4; CMB +7 (+10 trip); CMD 20 (21 against trip)
Feats Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Trip, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +9, Intimidate +6, Sense Motive +8, Swim +9
Languages Common, Elven
SQ AC bonus +1, maneuver training 1 (trip), martial maneuvers 2/day
Combat Gear none; Other Gear +1 chain shirt, +1 amulet of mighty fists, +1 cloak of resistance, 5 shuriken
Feat choices: Catch Off-Guard, Scorpion Style, Step Up, Throw Anything, and of course Weapon Specialization
Chain shirt costs 100 gp and weighs 25 pounds.
backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, belt pouch, 2 sunrods, 10 days of trail rations, 50 feet of rope, and a waterskin.
• 1:What was the most fun aspect of your character's class? (This is to gauge what works, it's important to let the design team to know this).
• 2:What was the least fun aspect? (This is just to gauge what the player didn't enjoy about the class. They don't need to have an answer to this if they enjoyed it all. This is important data.)• 3:What bit of rules did you have most trouble with, for example what did you find confusing, or not useful about your abilities, what abilities didn't you use at all this session? (This question is to gauge what language might be unclear, and whether some abilties need to be cut or changed)
• 4:Would you still play [component of class] knowing this class exists as an alternative? (This question is to gauge whether the hybrid robs too much of the parent classes uniqueness.)
• 5:Do any of the classes seem exceptionally powerful or weak in combat, especially compared to its related classes?
• 6:Do any of them seem especially fragile?
• 7:Are they particularly good or bad at performing tasks expected of them, both as adventurers and for their role in the party (skills, NPC interaction, investigation, and so on).
• 8:Any mechanics that are cumbersome in play?
• 9:Any rules that were confusing or you had to make a ruling on?
Rotton the Wizard
Arcanist Lvl 4
medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +4, Senses Perception + 3
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Offense
Attack
melee Spiked Gauntlet +2 (1d4+0x2)
ranged mwk Crossbow +7 (1d8+1/19-20)
Special Attacks Force Strike 1d4+4, Dimensional Slide 40 ft
========================================================================
Defense
AC 12, touch 12, Flatfooted 10 (10+2 Dex) usually 16 with Mage Armor
hp 34
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +5
========================================================================
Statistics
10 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 10 WIS, 20 INT (16+2+2headband), 10 CHABase Atk +2 CMB +2 CMD +4
Feats
Toughness, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)Traits
Gifted Adept (Snowball) (+1CL for one spell), Reactionary +2 InitArcanist Exploits
Force Strike, Dimensional SlideSkills
Knowledge (arcane lore) +12
Perception +3
Spellcraft +12Arcane Reservoir (Su): An arcanist has an innate pool of magical energy that she can draw upon to fuel her arcanist exploits and enhance her spells. The arcanist’s arcane reservoir can hold an amount of magical energy equal to three times the arcanist’s level. Each day when preparing spells, the arcanist’s arcane reservoir fills with raw magical energy, gaining a number of points equal to 1 + 1/2 her arcanist level. Any points she had from the previous day are lost. She can also regain these points through the consume spells class feature and some arcanist exploits. The arcane reservoir can never hold more points that the total mentioned above, points gained in excess of this maximum are lost.
Points from the arcanist reservoir are used to fuel many of the arcanist’s powers (see arcane exploits). In addition, the arcanist can expend one point from her arcane reservoir as a free action whenever she casts an arcanist spell. If she does, she can choose to increase the caster level by 1 or increase the DC of the spell by 1. She can expend no more than one point from her reservoir on a given spell in this way.
Arcanist Exploit: By bending and sometimes even breaking the rules of magic, the arcanist learns to channel the power she harnesses to create a wide variety of magical effects. Some of these exploits allow her to break down various forms of magic, adding their essence to her arcane reservoir. At 1st level and every two levels thereafter, the arcanist learns a new arcane exploit selected from the following list. An arcanist exploit cannot be selected more than once. Once an arcanist exploit has been selected, it cannot be changed. Most arcanist exploits require the arcanist to expend points from her arcane reservoir to function. Unless otherwise noted, the save DC for any arcanist exploit is equal to 10 + 1/2 the arcanist’s level + the arcanist’s Charisma modifier (DC 12).
Dimensional Slide (Su): The arcanist can expend one point from her arcane reservoir to create a dimensional crack that she can step through to reach another location. This ability is used as part of a move action, allowing her to move up to 10 feet per arcanist level to any location she can see; this is in place of 5 feet of movement. She can only use this ability once per round. She does not provoke an attack of opportunity for the movement caused by this ability, but any other movement provokes as normal.
Force Strike (Su): The arcanist can unleash a blast of force by expending one point from her arcane reservoir. This attack automatically strikes one target within 30 feet (as per magic missile) and it deals 1d4 points of damage, plus 1 point of damage per arcanist level (1d4+4). Spells and effects that negate magic missile also negate this effect.
Consume Spells (Su): The arcanist can spend a standard action to expend an available arcanist spell slot, making it unavailable for the rest of the day just as if she had used it to cast a spell. In doing so, she adds a number of points to her arcane reservoir equal to the level of the slot consumed. She cannot consume cantrips (0 level spells) in this way. Points added to the arcane reservoir in excess of the limit (see arcane reservoir) are lost.
SQ Consume Spells , Skilled, Arcane Reservoir (3 points), Spellbook
Spells Prepared:
Cantrips:
1st (9/day) (3 Spells): Color Spray, Mage Armor, Snowball (+4 ranged touch, 5d6 damage, Fort DC 18 or staggered 1 round)
2nd (3/day) (1 Spell): Glitterdust
Save DC 15 + spell level, 17 + spell level Conjuration.
• 1:What was the most fun aspect of your character's class? (This is to gauge what works, it's important to let the design team to know this).
• 2:What was the least fun aspect? (This is just to gauge what the player didn't enjoy about the class. They don't need to have an answer to this if they enjoyed it all. This is important data.)• 3:What bit of rules did you have most trouble with, for example what did you find confusing, or not useful about your abilities, what abilities didn't you use at all this session? (This question is to gauge what language might be unclear, and whether some abilties need to be cut or changed)
• 4:Would you still play [component of class] knowing this class exists as an alternative? (This question is to gauge whether the hybrid robs too much of the parent classes uniqueness.)
• 5:Do any of the classes seem exceptionally powerful or weak in combat, especially compared to its related classes?
• 6:Do any of them seem especially fragile?
• 7:Are they particularly good or bad at performing tasks expected of them, both as adventurers and for their role in the party (skills, NPC interaction, investigation, and so on).
• 8:Any mechanics that are cumbersome in play?
• 9:Any rules that were confusing or you had to make a ruling on?
• 1:What was the most fun aspect of your character's class? (This is to gauge what works, it's important to let the design team to know this).
A 1st-level brawler has good AC, even with 15 point buy, and you can still have an Int 13. (This version was 20 point buy.) A non-MAD "monk"? Cool!
Jake felt like a warrior, not an enlightened scholar. Good. I'm actually happy brawlers don't get immunity to poison, SR, etc.
Trip and then flurry. :)
• 2:What was the least fun aspect? (This is just to gauge what the player didn't enjoy about the class. They don't need to have an answer to this if they enjoyed it all. This is important data.)
Martial maneuvers take too long. You want to use them right away, but unless you start right next to an opponent you can't do that. Worse if you're surprised. Also doesn't work well with full-round flurry.
You don't get Weapon Specialization at 4th-level. You don't gain any feats until the next level. Jake spent a move action simply giving himself a boring +2 to damage rather than something interesting. The problem goes away in one level though, so the problem is only timing.
A 1st-level brawler is not a brawler. You don't get to flurry until 2nd-level. A 1st-level brawler is probably doing 1d6+3 or so damage at 1st-level, once per turn.
Most maneuvers require Int 13. It's not exactly MAD, but some brawlers aren't smart and shouldn't be.
• 3:What bit of rules did you have most trouble with, for example what did you find confusing, or not useful about your abilities, what abilities didn't you use at all this session? (This question is to gauge what language might be unclear, and whether some abilties need to be cut or changed)
Which feats can you take with martial maneuvers? You shouldn't be allowed to take a feat like Iron Will, you get enough feats already. Only [combat], [fighter] or [monk] feats should be eligible. I think an inappropriate feat was used in the examples.
• 4:Would you still play [component of class] knowing this class exists as an alternative? (This question is to gauge whether the hybrid robs too much of the parent classes uniqueness.)
I would never play a monk, but that's describing a problem with the monk.
A fighter is still a stronger class. Unarmed fighters won't exist anymore, but that's alright.
• 5:Do any of the classes seem exceptionally powerful or weak in combat, especially compared to its related classes?
Compared to a high-level fighter, the brawler can't hit much (expensive Amulet of Mighty Fists, no "weapon training", enforced two-weapon penalties) but the damage will be very high (monk base damage but with Greater Weapon Specialization).
I suggest giving a Brawler something like "unarmed mastery" but that only gives a bonus to hit.
• 6:Do any of them seem especially fragile?
No.
• 7:Are they particularly good or bad at performing tasks expected of them, both as adventurers and for their role in the party (skills, NPC interaction, investigation, and so on).
No. Brawlers have basically the same skills as a ranger except for wilderness skills.
• 8:Any mechanics that are cumbersome in play?
Martial maneuvers. I ended up drawing a list of feats that Jake was interested in.
• 9:Any rules that were confusing or you had to make a ruling on?
Since I didn't choose Iron Will or something inappropriate like that for martial maneuvers, no.
An appeal: brawlers are not as easy to build as a fighter. Please either include a sample brawler in the product, and/or tell players how they should pick ability scores. Otherwise you'll see a lot of high Dex brawlers that can't do damage.
Arcanist Feedback:
• 1:What was the most fun aspect of your character's class? (This is to gauge what works, it's important to let the design team to know this).
Rotton felt very much like a sorcerer who went to school rather than learn on his own.
Rotton could switch between Force Strike and Snowball. Force Strike was weaker, but couldn't hit friends and ignored SR.
• 2:What was the least fun aspect? (This is just to gauge what the player didn't enjoy about the class. They don't need to have an answer to this if they enjoyed it all. This is important data.)
Nothing.
• 3:What bit of rules did you have most trouble with, for example what did you find confusing, or not useful about your abilities, what abilities didn't you use at all this session? (This question is to gauge what language might be unclear, and whether some abilties need to be cut or changed)
Cantrips were confusing. Apparently arcanists can switch cantrips every day and then never run out of 0-level slots for attack purposes. I think this needs to be clarified. This might just be my fault though.
• 4:Would you still play [component of class] knowing this class exists as an alternative? (This question is to gauge whether the hybrid robs too much of the parent classes uniqueness.)
It's a bit difficult justifying playing a sorcerer when an arcanist is around. Intelligence is more valuable than Charisma, and the bloodline abilities are stronger than a sorcerer's. Careful selection of bloodline abilities make Charisma irrelevant. (Rotton could have played just fine with Charisma 7, since none of his bloodline abilities forced a save.)
The gap between a wizard and an arcanist is smaller. Rotton's ability to take Dimension Slide and Force Strike gave him abilities better than a cross between a teleportation specialist and an evoker of similar level.
My suggestion is to trim the number of spells per day that an arcanist gets, but only at the higher levels, to make them more reliant on their blood focus abilities. Rotton's primary ability was Snowball, just a standard (well, quite possibly overpowered) 1st-level spell, which a wizard or sorcerer would have kicked exactly as much behind with.
To force a higher Charisma score, I would split the defensive from offensive blood focus abilities, or (probably easier) reduce the number of arcane points per day but then give a bonus based on Charisma.
• 5:Do any of the classes seem exceptionally powerful or weak in combat, especially compared to its related classes?
The arcanist is just a little stronger than either base class, IMO. At very low-levels, a wizard's spell-like abilities are valuable, but the blood focus abilities are stronger. For instance, Force Strike does not provoke AoOs when used (supernatural, no attack roll) and of course bypasses spell resistance. Compare to an evoker's Force Missile. An arcanist gets more of these than a specialist wizards gets too.
I was briefly annoyed at the Consume Magic ability taking a standard action, but that's paying for the flexibility. Maybe it should take more time (like a wizard leaving a slot open).
• 6:Do any of them seem especially fragile?
No more than a sorcerer.
• 7:Are they particularly good or bad at performing tasks expected of them, both as adventurers and for their role in the party (skills, NPC interaction, investigation, and so on).
No. An arcanist could replace a wizard, and no one would even notice.
• 8:Any mechanics that are cumbersome in play?
No.
• 9:Any rules that were confusing or you had to make a ruling on?
See above for cantrips.
Shaman is pretty balanced and I would like to keep it mostly the way it is, especially the spell list. The druid list doesn't exactly fit my fighting style but if they make a custom list that works then i would be all right with it.
Bloodrager is pretty much balanced against the regular barbarian except for a few bloodlines. It also reminded me of the rage prophet PrC and i would love it if paizo did an oracle/barbarian hybrid like that.
I didn't test these two arcanist abilities, but:
I really like counterspell. I'd recommend a slight name change, just add an extra word in front of counterspell. You don't have to ready an action, and there's a caster level check, so it's not automatic. (Automatic frustrates whoever is playing your opponent.) You even get a bonus if you have prepped the right spell. It's perfect.
I don't like Potent Magic. Rotton already had great save DCs. His Glitterdust was devastating, and the only reason he didn't stagger anything with Snowball was because whatever he hit with it was either a construct or froze to death. Save DCs from casters are already too high in the game, IMO, compared to saving throws.
You can run out of arcane points fast.
Thanks for your playtest feedback! :)
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Not much to add, as I didn't get to play as much as I'd hoped. The Slayer was mine. Agreed on the move action to acquire...+1 to hit and damage, which is what it boils down to in combad, isn't enough for a move action. The higher levels of the ability still look very nice, but I have yet to test them.
I admittedly built the Slayer to optimally work with what I tend to see as a rather wonky weapon, the dire flail. I figured that if there was a class to capitalize on a double weapon, it would be the Slayer, and the race would be half-orc. For what I did get to see, it worked OK, but I didn't get to explore the capabilities too much - no trips or disarms.
As mentioned previously, I occasionally played a Slayer, Shaman, and Bloodrager.
Slayer: I kept forgetting about sneak attack, which came up because he was flanking an opponent at least once, and attacking blinded opponents. Oops. My unfamiliarity with the class meant I missed out on slayer talents too.
Favored target as a move action is usually fine before 6th-level (not 10th!), but this slayer used double weapons. I suspect Rapid Shot will be popular with ranged slayers too.
Shaman: I never saw the familiar. Are they in fact a familiar? I think some flavor text is needed there.
The shaman in question was a battle shaman, and that day had chosen healing as a wandering spirit.
Healing Spirit: Needs a slight rename. Combat Healer or something, because it looks just like a Life ability instead. We were very happy with this ability. Usually healing isn't worth it during combat, but this makes it worthwhile.
Required spells: Since shamans have lost cleric spells and gained druid spells, they lost a lot of Remove [Affliction] spells. I don't think it's necessary to directly add this to the class list, but these spells should be available to the Life spirit. If half the PCs get blinded by flocks of crows (this actually happened to my party in Kingmaker), druids cannot fix this, but by selecting Life as a wandering spirit, a shaman could unblind the PCs the next day.
Planar ally, etc: Shamans are supposed to be masters of communicating with and summoning spirits, but the druid spell list does not cover this. I think a few such spells (eg Planar Ally) could be added to the spirits somehow. Perhaps Fire shamans can call fire elementals, Battle shamans could call incorporeal undead representing their ancestors (as Planar Ally, except they're not extraplanar), etc. Shamans are also supposed to be good at eliminating spirits, and could use some similar ability, but I'm not sure how to do it. It would probably be similar to a cleric spell, but more limited.
The curse of suffering ability looks very weak. It has a short duration for something that doesn't come up often.
Bones: Evil witch doctors unite! Shedding spirit seems like something any shaman can do.
Bloodrager: Before I "botted" the bloodrager, he bloodraged and cast Blur as part of his bloodrage. He had Enlarge Person as a spell but didn't use it.
Being able to cast a spell when entering bloodrage is cool, as part of his Arcane bloodline. However I think only offensive spells should be on those lists. Bloodragers aren't tanks. Something like Enlarge Person would be more appropriate.
It seems only the Arcane bloodline has such an ability, so only it (like a magus) gets to bend the action economy to avoid the usual problems of a caster/warrior hybrid.
At least at low level, the bloodrager's attack bonus was usually 3 points ahead of the brawler's. No flurrying, plus bloodrage increases your Strength-based attack bonus.
Shamans didn't actually lose cleric spells, they are just considering a druid list. And my char was hiding my familiar away.