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I recently found out that my DM allows LE Anti Paladins, in his words CE Paladins are stupid, which got me thinking. My current paladin has been having some issues with the code. Namely the part about acting honorably, which recently forced him to give the CE goblin party member the chance to reform. The goblin has since run away with a book of Asmodeus that contracts souls to him in exchange for evil knowledge and has pledged himself to dark powers. While meta wise this was hilarious and gave the DM an NPC villain for the party, it also caused the paladin to fly into a psychotic rage for days, it got so bad he was chained to cart and had to be force feed sleeping poison for weeks till he calmed down. The party came to the general consensus that had he not been chained up prior to that (long story) he would of chased after the goblin and done something crazy and fallen.
The point of this being that i appear to have unintentionally created the prime candidate for a fallen paladin, young angry man who failed once and is determined to never let it happen again. And i wondered how i would go (Hypothetically, not entirely sure i want to give up my goodness for evil just yet) from defender of the light to ruthless cutthroat evil.
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Antipaladins embrace Evil. Sure, they can kill Evil too, but it doesn't quite sound right for your character (It's up to you of course, but you're asking for opinions).
I'd say Inquisitor or Ranger would fit better. Those are good stalkers in the shadows classes.
There's this PrC (aimed at darker inquisitors) as well.
First off intending to do evil is enough to fall, second no-one stays that angry that long, third Anti-paladin is more hardcore evil than paladin is hardcore good. You must punish all good acts or lose your powers. You are evil incarnate. Anti-paladin is not for you, and not for your team. Figure something else out.
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You can NOT punish a good act and not lose your powers (regainable by atoning) but you CAN'T PERFORM a good act and keep your powers. There's a difference between not punishing a good act and performing a good act. At least the way we play. I much prefer LE Anti-paladin as well.
Now the CE Antipaladin may very well punish all good. But the LE Antipaladin I believe will let a "good" deed go unpunished as long as it either furthers his own darker goals, or doesn't interfere with his more insidious purposes.
Just like an Antipaladin can infiltrate a group and even PERFORM a good deed if it allows him to destroy the group from within later on...
It's a slippery slope of espionage and evil and awesome ^_^
Fair enough Weenks, but my point still stands that you are pure evil if you are an anti paladin.
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If your DM allows it I would suggest PrC into Grey Gaurd from Complete Scoundrel. The class is centered around having a more lax paladin code and using an ends justifies the means approach.
Also, if you're looking for a more wrathful pally, start worshiping the Empyreal Lord Ragathiel. Part of portfolio is wrath and vengence.
I recently found out that my DM allows LE Anti Paladins, in his words CE Paladins are stupid, which got me thinking. My current paladin has been having some issues with the code. Namely the part about acting honorably, which recently forced him to give the CE goblin party member the chance to reform. The goblin has since run away with a book of Asmodeus that contracts souls to him in exchange for evil knowledge and has pledged himself to dark powers. While meta wise this was hilarious and gave the DM an NPC villain for the party, it also caused the paladin to fly into a psychotic rage for days, it got so bad he was chained to cart and had to be force feed sleeping poison for weeks till he calmed down. The party came to the general consensus that had he not been chained up prior to that (long story) he would of chased after the goblin and done something crazy and fallen.
The point of this being that i appear to have unintentionally created the prime candidate for a fallen paladin, young angry man who failed once and is determined to never let it happen again. And i wondered how i would go (Hypothetically, not entirely sure i want to give up my goodness for evil just yet) from defender of the light to ruthless cutthroat evil.
Ok, I think the first question that needs to be asked is this; why was your paladin in a group with a chaotic evil party member? Reference Paladin Code of Conduct...
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the relationship between your paladin and the goblin. Not to mention, tracking down an obviously evil creature who was in possession of an obviously evil item in an attempt to rid the world of said evil creature would not, I my personal opinion, be something that would cause a paladin to fall.
Your description to me sounds like the hellknight PrC from the ISWG. Pretty much tailor made for that personality and circumstance.
Not to mention, tracking down an obviously evil creature who was in possession of an obviously evil item in an attempt to rid the world of said evil creature would not, I my personal opinion, be something that would cause a paladin to fall.
For a paladin, the end does not justify the means. Tracking down the creature is only one part, the other is the lengths he is prepared to go to (in extracting information for example).
I may be in the minority here, but I can definitely see being a LE paladin and fighting evil. I'm guessing I'm missing something from the anecdote though, because getting angry at a goblin because he got away doesn't particularly seem like a good enough reason for a "psychotic rage".
Evil organizations feud *all the time*. The idea of "I must save everyone from themselves" is the core of a well played tyrant.
There is absolutely no reason why you wouldn't still combat evil. You just might not combat it as "evil" but as "idiocy" or "incompetence" or "greed" (you get the idea). Maybe even just an entire group-being LE rather than LG means you will do whatever you feel you need to to get it done. It's efficiency over morality, without quibbling.
Evil is not dumb. They don't just foam and kick puppies and steal candy. If they do, they're often offed by the first folks with the power to do so. They can be clever, forgiving and understanding. They're also often vengeful, manipulative and ambitious.
My most recent long run game was actually an "evil" game that ended up with people doing good acts for an evil purpose (essentially bribing and blackmailing several good faiths and beings).
One of my favorite styles of villains is the fallen champion of good, who still believes in what he does, so much so, that his zeal to accomplish has left him without qualms in seeing it done, no matter the cost.
Well played evil is a joy at any table :P
I wanted to piggy-back on this and add a few thoughts.
First, I wanted to express that my longest-running campaign was a home-brewed world where Good had all-but-vanquished Evil and driven it from the world, and the world was going to be destroyed because it was out of balance (in favour of good). The villains were real characters, not caricatures or cartoonish in their evil, and had dreams and motivations that went beyond evil acts. It was probably one of the most satisfying games that I ever ran, and that my players ever played in.
Secondly, I wanted to express that, in my mind, the Lawful Evil alignment works far better for antipaladins than Chaotic Evil does. Paladins are champions of goodness and justice, and I just don't see antipaladins as the champions of chaos (though destruction is a different story). In my personal opinion, they work better as villains that want to destroy what stands in their way in order to dominate and impose the will of their dark gods upon the face of the land, not whimsically causing suffering just because it feels like a good idea at the time. Just seems like a better headspace to me, that's all.
Balancer, as far as your Lawful Good paladin becoming a Lawful Evil antipaladin, I would recommend developing a code of conduct for the antipaladin and then start working your way toward it. As a start, you could adapt the code of the Demon Lords (Faiths of Corruption, p. 27), or perhaps adapting the codes of either Callistra or Gorum (Faiths of Corruption, p. 26) to try to make them fit. If you were to make a Lawful Evil antipaladin of, say... Asmodeus, your code might go something like this:
The Code of Asmodeus, Prince of Darkness
- Power is everything. Through my power, I will change the world and remake it in my own image.
- Power does as it will. Let all those beneath me bow to my will, as I must bow to the will of those above. This is the natural order of all things.
- Knowledge is Power. I must seek to strengthen my mind, or I will be the pawn of those who have the wisdom that I lack.
- Respect is Power. There will be those that fear me, but I seek to earn their respect. Empires are built by loyal hands, but brought down by a knife in the back.
- I shall be merciless in my dealings with others and expect none for myself, unless there is something to be gained through mercy. Only the fool gives away what he does not have to, or fails to yield when it is in his best interests.
- Foolishness is not Power. I must be disciplined and have control over myself and my vassals.
- Patience is a virtue. Only the greatest fools act before the time is right.
- My word is my bond. I do not make oaths lightly, for those that are not worthy of trust are not worthy of life.
I hope that helps!