I don't see why you would really go more than 2 Rogue. I'm assuming you're only using it for Terrain Rogue Talent, but once you have one talent you can just get that from a feat.
Yeah I really didnt like the 4 levels of rogue, It hurts really bad. I would much rather mix Ranger/Druid.
Edit: I guess the main goal is to be able to Smite anything.
What about...
Ranger 1/ Druid (World Walker) 6/Nature Warden 3/ Horizon Walker 10 (I don't know what order would be best)
Edit: You could even possibly combine Pack Lord with World Walker but you lose your wild shape to gain Improved Empathic Link (Su) This would make for an excellent scout, plus being able to freely talk to animals/companions in favored terrains is awesome ( you will have plenty of places to talk)
That way you gain your favored enemy, you get a favored terrain from world walker, 4th level druid spells. wild shape 2x a day, great synergy with nature warden abilities ( plus with 3 levels you can talk to animals in your favored terrains at will)
Edit: Another option for early entry to Nature Warden could be...
Ranger(Warden)1/Druid(Feral Child) 4 on the bright side you gain two favored terrains by level 4 but you do lose your favored enemy. You could take racial heritage feat for the Samsaran Alternate racial for instant enemy and terrain bond.
Bump
Not the best, but decent:
** spoiler omitted **...
This is a very nice rogue build, you should post this in that Rogue thread if you haven't already. Unfortunately I think I'm trying to stay away from playing a rogue, that's usually my go to. Other than that I like this a lot.
Minimum:
1 ranger
2 rogue
2 nature warden
3 horizon walker
7 more HW
5 xxxx
Minimum:
1 ranger
2 rogue
2 nature warden
3 horizon walker7 more HW
5 xxxx
I really wanted to avoid rogue, do I have other options? Plus I don't think you have enough skill ranks to even get into nature warden, unless I'm missing something. I thought you couldn't have more ranks than number of hit dice, NOT the number on the dice.
So you need to be at least 5th level to go Nature Warden. I think what I want to do is dip 3 levels into Nature Warden and take 10 levels of Horizon Walker. My problem is finding the most optimal choice for the other 7 levels. (Starting Classes)
I was thinking of this
1 Mad Dog Barbarian (Animal Companion at start + fast movement + rage)
4 World Walker Druid (FT + NB: Domain/Sub Domain. + Wildshape 1/day + Spells)
3 Nature Warden (YES)
10 Horizon Walker (YES)
2 World Walker Druid (Wildshape 2/day + 3rd level spells)
You get an Animal Companion and a Domain or Sub Domain, its pretty sweet. Please give me some feed back. The only down side is that it doesn't have favored enemy.
Also their is always
3 Druid World Walker
2 Rogue
3 Nature Warden
10 Horizon Walker
This provides 2 favored terrains by level 5
Hence the 1 level of ranger for favored enemy. It's needed since HW won't give the ability directly. As for the 2 rogue levels, they are required to get the rogue ability for rogue talent: terrain mastery. You only need 2 levels to qualify, but once you do, just take the feat extra rogue talent: (choosing) terrain mastery. Will give you an extra terrain, plus a +2 in all terrains you have favored.
So 7 levels of undecided, -2 levels rogue, -1 ranger level for static favored enemy=4 class levels left.
Hence the 1 level of ranger for favored enemy. It's needed since HW won't give the ability directly. As for the 2 rogue levels, they are required to get the rogue ability for rogue talent: terrain mastery. You only need 2 levels to qualify, but once you do, just take the feat extra rogue talent: (choosing) terrain mastery. Will give you an extra terrain, plus a +2 in all terrains you have favored.
So 7 levels of undecided, -2 levels rogue, -1 ranger level for static favored enemy=4 class levels left.
So what should I do for animal companion, this?
1 Ranger (Favored Enemy)
2 Mad Dog Barbarian (Animal Companion + Pack Tactics)
2 Rogue (Favored Terrain)
3 Nature Warden
10 Horizon Walker
2 Nature Warden/ or Mad Dog/ or Rogue
Is their any other way to gain favored enemy without being a ranger? Like an archetype for a different class? I know in D&D they had extra favored enemy as a feat.
4 Ranger (Favored Enemy/Wild Empathy/Endurance/Favored Terrain/Animal Companion)
2 Rogue (Sneak Attack +1d6/Terrain Mastery [Talent]
4 Nature Warden
10 Horizon Walker
or you could reduce Nature Warden to 3 and take 1 more level in Ranger after HW. I don't know... What is my absolute most optimal choice to make this work?
this build just seems to be getting too scattered now. You're losing BAB for underpowered Animal companions which I dont understand, boon companion wont keep them equal with 12-15 non-AC class levels in there. PLus even with 10 levels of horizon walker unless you know what terrains youll be in most of the time, I dont see it as more than a 3 level dip for dim door.
Yeah I know... I just really wanted to combine Horizon Walker and Nature Warden, entering Nature Warden as early as possible. But at this point I'm really beginning to question my self. I think I might drop Nature Warden all together. That way I don't have to worry about the stupid animal companion thing.
Samsaran (Instant Enemy + Terrain Bond)
6 Ranger (Spirit Ranger)
3 Horizon Walker
7 Ranger (Spirit Ranger)
4 xxxxxx
Spirit ranger fits Samsaran thematically. Also I get spontaneous casting with a full spell list.
The ranger is the only one that gets favored enemy at level 1 so easily that I know of. Also, it is a really great class for a quick 1 level dip, you get a lot more than just favored enemy.
I'm not sure why go mad dog barbarian also. Pathfinder has is way of making it more ideal to stay within a single, or minimal amount of multi-classing to be good. If you stay for ranger 4 you can get the animal companion.
Quick question: will you be going ranged or melee?
If you go ranged, than getting more of nature warden might be better, unless you go for rogue and get a way to do ranged sneak attack, (normally within 30' or use sniper goggles to get it for longer ranges). Otherwise rogue might be better for 1 more level to get the extra sneak attack die for melee since you would then have your animal companion for flanking.
Also, the better option with all of this favored terrain bonus is using the companion bond instead of animal companion. I would get rid of mad dog barbarian and give your allies, half your favored enemy bonus, which from terrain dominance is your favored terrain, and give them a nice sized boost to atk and Dmg.
thats the build im doing right there. You dont lose Favored Enemy and you get bonus castings of spells like instant enemy and terrain bond. NAture warden seems nice but I would only go into from a druid(feral child)
I agree with you on that, its definitely the quickest and easiest way to get into it. But yeah, Samsaran Spirit Ranger definitely seems like the most optimal choice. Should I build it as a switch hitter? Or just focus on one or the other?
If you multiclass a lot, switch hitter might be better. If you take 6 ranger at minimum, then archery for combat style, but still switch hitter, or pure archer is nice. Archery gets a whole lot of attacks more over than melee.
The ranger is the only one that gets favored enemy at level 1 so easily that I know of. Also, it is a really great class for a quick 1 level dip, you get a lot more than just favored enemy.
I'm not sure why go mad dog barbarian also. Pathfinder has is way of making it more ideal to stay within a single, or minimal amount of multi-classing to be good. If you stay for ranger 4 you can get the animal companion.
Quick question: will you be going ranged or melee?
If you go ranged, than getting more of nature warden might be better, unless you go for rogue and get a way to do ranged sneak attack, (normally within 30' or use sniper goggles to get it for longer ranges). Otherwise rogue might be better for 1 more level to get the extra sneak attack die for melee since you would then have your animal companion for flanking.
Also, the better option with all of this favored terrain bonus is using the companion bond instead of animal companion. I would get rid of mad dog barbarian and give your allies, half your favored enemy bonus, which from terrain dominance is your favored terrain, and give them a nice sized boost to atk and Dmg.
I think I'm dropping Nature Warden altogether, and only dipping into Horizon Walker for 3 levels for dimensional dervish. Also with the last build I posted you get more casting options. Plus you get the most out of Instant Enemy/Terrain bond. Also if you went with the Archery route you could finish the last 4 levels off with Lantern Bearer (requires burning a feat for Racial Heritage: elf). But I think I would personally go with the Switch Hitter Route.
Honestly, if your still going samsaran the insight bonus to AC that's coming from your huge number of a favored terrain is a very nice bonus.
If I were you I'd streamline the build a bit:
With nature warden 6 ranger/ 3 HW/ 2 rogue/ 2 nature warden/ 7 HW Or something similar to this, if your going for the terrain bonuses.
Without nature warden: 6 ranger/3 HW/4 rogue/ 7 HW Or 6 ranger/ 3 HW/ 2 rogue/2 ranger/7 HW
Edit: we'll, for HW there are two ways to go about them. Push the terrain bonus to the sky, or go for the abilities, like D. Door and others for a certain number of uses per day. So depending on which you want, it changes the build considerably.
i would suggest human cavalier for 4 levels so you can take the horse master feat to max out your ac.
i would suggest human cavalier for 4 levels so you can take the horse master feat to max out your ac.
Well I need the Samsaran Alternate Racial Trait but I guess Racial Heritage could take care of qualifying as human or samsaran for traits/archetypes/favored class bonus/etc. That would definitely be a nice boost, that and Cavalier is my favorite martial class. How would you build this Abraham? I always enjoy reading your posts.
Edit: I was originally just gonna finish those last 4 levels off with Ranger, that way I gain more spells, quarry, imp. evasion, and HiPS.
The rogue is needed for terrain builds. If you want the increased favored terrain from talent and feats, rogue is a huge bonus must actually.
Also, the OP has changed their mind a few times on the kind of build they want, so each time they changed, I altered it.
The rogue is needed for terrain builds. If you want the increased favored terrain from talent and feats, rogue is a huge bonus must actually.
Also, the OP has changed their mind a few times on the kind of build they want, so each time they changed, I altered it.
Yeah my bad, but to be fair the title of the thread is ideas/builds (more than one). Most of that scattered around stuff was for the Nature Warden route. I will do my best to stay focused on one thing at a time. I don't feel like the 2 rogue levels are as crucial as you make them out to be. Yeah you get an extra terrain and a +2 to all other favored terrains but this really hurts your BAB. Plus I will already have 5 favored terrains which is decent.
hence slayer...it has talents which include terrain mastery, sneak attack, and favored target
When does the Advanced Class Guide release? Because Slayer would probably be the best class for this.
Next summer I believe.
What exactly are you trying to get out of the horizon walker? Or out of the build period? The terrain bonus? SLA per day? Animal companion build?
I don't think you can actually get the best of everything in this case.
You want 5 levels of nature warden if you really want the AC so you can share the bonuses with it.
However you are also going to need 2nd level divine spells (possible with aasimar if you accept the FAQ on spell-like abilities) and the ability to grab all the favored terrains possible.
feral child druid 3/ cavalier 4/ rogue 2/nature warden 5/ horizon walker 6
That gets you 7 favored terrains without spending feats, a full on animal companion... 16 BAB, 6th level druid casting, 16/8/7 saves, evasion, 1d6 sneak attack, 2 terrain dominance and 3 terrain masteries, eating up 1 feat for horse master, free perception check for traps in favored terrain
Aasimar(agathion-blooded) cavalier 4/rogue 2/ ranger 1/Nature's Warden 5/ 8 Horizon Walker
That gives you 17 BAB 13/11/7 no real spell casting, heavy armor 7 favored terrains without a using feats, 4 terrain masteries 2 terrain dominance, evasion, 1d6 sneak attack, full animal companion at the cost of a feat
It really comes down to what exactly you want from it.
In the end this will get you up to a 7 point insight bonus to AC for you and your AC and a nice initiative bonus for both of you as well.
I don't think you can actually get the best of everything in this case.
You want 5 levels of nature warden if you really want the AC so you can share the bonuses with it.
However you are also going to need 2nd level divine spells (possible with aasimar if you accept the FAQ on spell-like abilities) and the ability to grab all the favored terrains possible.
feral child druid 3/ cavalier 4/ rogue 2/nature warden 5/ horizon walker 6
That gets you 7 favored terrains without spending feats, a full on animal companion... 16 BAB, 6th level druid casting, 16/8/7 saves, evasion, 1d6 sneak attack, 2 terrain dominance and 3 terrain masteries, eating up 1 feat for horse master, free perception check for traps in favored terrain
Aasimar(agathion-blooded) cavalier 4/rogue 2/ ranger 1/Nature's Warden 5/ 8 Horizon Walker
That gives you 17 BAB 13/11/7 no real spell casting, heavy armor 7 favored terrains without a using feats, 4 terrain masteries 2 terrain dominance, evasion, 1d6 sneak attack, full animal companion at the cost of a feat
It really comes down to what exactly you want from it.
In the end this will get you up to a 7 point insight bonus to AC for you and your AC and a nice initiative bonus for both of you as well.
Thank you so much for this. I wish Beast Rider didn't replace the expert trainer class feature, it would fit sooo well. Which Order do you think would be best?
My build makes a master forest warden who is quite capable of pulling off advanced combat maneuvers and can choke up the battlefield with choking plants that only he can move through.
Look for "Taur Thelyn" in my Character Emporium for details. Sorry I couldn't provide a direct link, my online services have been wonky as of late.
My build makes a master forest warden who is quite capable of pulling off advanced combat maneuvers and can choke up the battlefield with choking plants that only he can move through.
Look for "Taur Thelyn" in my Character Emporium for details. Sorry I couldn't provide a direct link, my online services have been wonky as of late.
Funny you mention it Ravingdork, "Taur Theyln" is what actually influenced me to want to play a Horizon Walker in the first place.
If you are going to be on the AC order of the sword.
If you are going ranged order of land (also thematically appropriate).
If you are a defender type then honor guard archetype and order of the dragon (with the helpful trait).
If you want to be a pain in the but then honor guard archetype (with the helpful trait) and order of the paw while mounted.
Order of the sword is fun, honor guard with order of the dragon and helpful and benevolent armor is pretty awesome too though, especially for pushing your AC's ac through the roof.
If you are going to be on the AC order of the sword.
If you are going ranged order of land (also thematically appropriate).
If you are a defender type then honor guard archetype and order of the dragon (with the helpful trait).
If you want to be a pain in the but then honor guard archetype (with the helpful trait) and order of the paw while mounted.Order of the sword is fun, honor guard with order of the dragon and helpful and benevolent armor is pretty awesome too though, especially for pushing your AC's ac through the roof.
Could you possibly help me stat out this build? I'm not sure what feats to use for this. I would imagine he would be focused around mounted combat? I'm also having trouble choosing over these two...
Aasimar(agathion-blooded) cavalier 4/rogue 2/ ranger 1/Nature's Warden 5/ 8 Horizon Walker
That gives you 17 BAB 13/11/7 no real spell casting, heavy armor 7 favored terrains without a using feats, 4 terrain masteries 2 terrain dominance, evasion, 1d6 sneak attack, full animal companion at the cost of a feat
Which one would you choose personally?
I feel a little lost because I'm not understanding the stacking from terrain dominance and favored enemy to get +30 to hit etc. Please help? ;)
Got a working link for Taur Thelyn.
Got it nice. Wow.