Does anything resist Hellfire?

[Kermah Orletithar]

Channel Hellfire

At 2nd level, a diabolist can alter spells that deal energy damage to instead deal hellfire damage. She can do this as a free action a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Spells altered to use hellfire gain the lawful and evil descriptors.

---

So, 2nd level Diabolist gets this lovely power. Does this help mitigate weaknesses of Sorcerer builds that focus on blasting? You don't even lose out on your spell progression, about the only thing missing is that your bloodlines get slowed down.

Any ideas on how good this is? (and if it's resisted?)

EDIT: Found context for what Hellfire damage is: Hellfire Trap

Possibly good? You end up halving your damage against Fire-immune foes (assuming you're using something like Fireball), but you can keep advancing it?

[darkwarriorkarg]

It's the same philosophy as a flamestrike, really.

However:

"Creatures under the effects of spells like protection from evil are unaffected by this unholy energy, though they may still take fire damage."

[Kermah Orletithar]

So overall this doesn't solve the issue for a blasting sorcerer. It helps, but not to the degree I'd like (unless you have something that can beat out protection from evil...)

[insaneogeddon]

Its no searing light ... NOTHING stops 'light damage'!!

[havoc xiii]

How often is the bad guy going to use protection from evil though...?

[Drachasor]

Hardness reduces it, since it reduces all damage.

[Are]

havoc xiii wrote:

How often is the bad guy going to use protection from evil though...?

The bad guy will typically actually be evil-aligned, and thus take no damage from the unholy portion of the hellfire.

[Baronjett]

I believe that all characters and creature of 5 or more hit dice are affected if they have an evil alignment. So, by the time you are able to sling Hellfire around most of the BBEGs will be affected...

Check Core rule book's table under detect evil(good, law and chaos too)

[Are]

Baronjett wrote:

I believe that all characters and creature of 5 or more hit dice are affected if they have an evil alignment. So, by the time you are able to sling Hellfire around most of the BBEGs will be affected...

Check Core rule book's table under detect evil(good, law and chaos too)

The limitations of alignment-detecting spells have nothing to do with the properties of hellfire damage.

[Drachasor]

Are wrote:

Baronjett wrote:

I believe that all characters and creature of 5 or more hit dice are affected if they have an evil alignment. So, by the time you are able to sling Hellfire around most of the BBEGs will be affected...

Check Core rule book's table under detect evil(good, law and chaos too)

The limitations of alignment-detecting spells have nothing to do with the properties of hellfire damage.

What? Are you telling my that my DM is just doing a houserule when I Bluff the universe into thinking I'm a wizard so I can cast spells? Tricking it regarding your alignment works the same way!

[Douglas Muir 406]

Hellfire is for blasting good guys. Evil creatures take no damage from the unholy energy, but good guys take DOUBLE damage -- unless they have Protection From Evil up, in which case it bounces off them.

The PFE loophole is annoying, especially since there's no way to know who has this spell up and who doesn't. That said, I'm okay with it; it nerfs this just enough IMO to keep it reasonable. Otherwise, this would be your go-to power whenever you faced a good-aligned opponent. You'd automatically get 50% more damage on every blast! That would be so powerful as to approach imbalance. (Because, you know, you're a Diabolist. You're probably evil, so you're likely to be fighting a lot of good guys.)

Overall the hellfire power is one of the stronger PrC powers out there, and it helps make Diabolist one of the few PrCs that actually keeps up with the core classes. My only complaint about it is that it works off your Cha mod, which means it kinda screws over the non-sorceror Diabolists. A number of PrCs do things like this -- that is, they're nominally open to multiple spellcasting classes, but they have powers built off a stat (usually Cha) that many casters dump. It's very minor, but it's a recurring design flaw.

Doug M.

[Baronjett]

Douglas has it right. What I wanted to say was 5th "Good" characters will take the extra damage from Hellfire.

the alignment spells shows us when characters are considered "Good" or "Evil" and at what level.

4th Lawful good wizard gets hit with Hellfire doesn't take extra damage, a 5th level would.

A 1st level Lawful good Cleric would take extra damage for being good at 1st level.

[Douglas Muir 406]

I'm pretty sure that's not correct. You're confusing the detection abilities of the spell with the state of actually being Good or Evil aligned. The spell can't detect good or evil in most low-level creatures, but that doesn't matter -- the creatures still have alignments.

Checking the rule for hellfire, the RAW says "Evil-aligned creatures and creatures with the evil subtype take no damage from the unholy energy, but good-aligned beings and those with the good subtype take double the normal damage from it."

That seems pretty clear. A first level bard who is Chaotic Good is good-aligned and will take the extra damage. 4th level Lawful Good wizard, same-same. They are 'good-aligned beings'. The fact that the Detect spell doesn't pick them up is neither here nor there.

Doug M.

[Baronjett]

Hmm, I see your point. Its never come up in game before for me since by the times those spells are being thrown around characters are all above 4th level anyway.

[Hogeyhead]

Where does it say this about unholy energy?

[Douglas Muir 406]

Hogeyhead wrote:

Where does it say this about unholy energy?

Right over here.

[insaneogeddon]

If that was the intent surely there would be a link to hell fire? Hellfire ray for example would surely mention it but does not.

There are spells that create bolts or balls of lava,tar etc that don't impact like lava or tar. Environmental effects are generally separate to spells unless there is a specific mention somewhere?

[Are]

insaneogeddon wrote:

If that was the intent surely there would be a link to hell fire? Hellfire ray for example would surely mention it but does not.

There are spells that create bolts or balls of lava,tar etc that don't impact like lava or tar. Environmental effects are generally separate to spells unless there is a specific mention somewhere?

There is a specific mention.

Both the diabolist PrC and the hellfire ray spell were printed in "Book of the Damned Vol.1 - Princes of Darkness", where on page 5 Hellfire is mentioned in the text, plus the properties of hellfire damage are spelled out in a sidebar. The diabolist's channel hellfire ability also references that page.

(the hellfire ray spell does not reference the page, but as the information applies to all hellfire damage, there isn't really a need for it to do so).

[insaneogeddon]

Fair call.

Always better to own the books!!

Not a source we use so never even seen.