And here's the proposed final...
Some knightly orders believe that the chivalric ideals are the nearest thing to a divine code of life, and that the gods themselves appreciate their cavaliers and paladins more than their clerics. In some cases, this may be true, but when need arises–such as when a rightful heir must be put on the throne, the church hierarchy has become corrupted, or a benevolent queen needs help in a holy crusade–a god can choose a particularly righteous cavalier and through divine investiture, bestow upon him sacred powers and prophetic fire and grant him the right to give divine orders to his brothers in arms and its flock of faithful on its behalf. This chosen one may be of noble birth or a peasant of humble upbringing with nothing of worth, but regardless of his circumstance, a prospective knight of grace will always find the path of chivalry and the perfect situation to be vetted by the gods.
Primary: Cavalier.
Secondary: Oracle.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The knight of grace selects three oracle skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal cavalier class skills, one of which must be Spellcraft. The knight of grace gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The knight of grace is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor, medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Mystery: At 1st level, a knight of grace gains the oracle’s mystery ability and selects a mystery of her choice. He adds his mystery skill to his list of class skill. If the knight of grace has this skill, he can choose a different skill instead.
At 5th level, a knight of grace adds his first mystery spell to his list of spells known, and each subsequent spell at 8th, 11th and 14th level, up to his fourth mystery spell. This ability and revelation replaces cavalier’s charge and bonus feats.
Oracle’s Curse: At 1st level, a knight of grace gains the oracle’s curse ability and must choose an oracle’s curse. He may choose any oracle’s curse allowed to an oracle or the new Visionary curse. The knight of grace gains his curse’s benefits at the indicated levels, unless the benefits add additional spells to his list of spells known. In such cases, he adds these spells to his list of spells known at 8th, 13th, and 18th level (instead of at 5th, 10th, and 15th level). Any spell normally granted at 10th level is added to his list of 3rd–level spells known, while a spell normally granted at 15th level is added to his list of 4th–level spells known, even if he can’t normally cast spells of that level. The knight of grace’s oracle level is equal to his knight of grace level for the purpose of determining the effects of the curse. This ability replaces expert trainer.
Order: This is exactly like the cavalier’s ability of the same name, except that the knight of grace can also choose the new Order of the Moon.
Revelation: At 3rd level, and again at 6th level and every six levels thereafter, a knight of grace selects one revelation from those granted by his mystery.
Spellcasting: Beginning at 4th level, a knight of grace gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells which are drawn from the oracle spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a knight of grace must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a knight of grace’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the knight of grace’s Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a knight of grace can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His daily allotment of spells is given on Table: Knight of Grace. When Table: Knight of Grace indicates that the knight of grace gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score.
The knight of grace’s selection of spells is limited. At 4th level, a knight of grace knows two 1st-level spells of the knight of grace’s choice at 4th level, but does not does not automatically know “cure” or “inflict” spells as an oracle. A knight of grace gains more spells as he increases in level, as indicated on Table: Knight of Grace Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a knight of grace knows is not affected by his Charisma score, but it’s affected by the bonus mystery spells he gains).
A knight of grace need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.
Through 3rd level, a knight of grace has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his knight of grace level –3. This ability replaces tactician, greater tactician, and master tactician.
Rallying Prophecy (Su): At 5th level, a knight of grace can use his prophetic insights in battle to raise his allies’ morale. As long as the knight of grace is clearly visible and can be heard, all allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus to their AC and on all saving throws against negative emotion effects. This ability replaces banner.
Greater Rallying Prophecy (Su): At 14th level, the bonuses granted by the knight of grace’s rallying prophecy ability increase to +4. This ability replaces greater banner.
Champion of Devotion (Su): At 20th level, the knight of grace becomes the perfect vessel for the will of the god. His rallying prophecy ability has effect on all allies within 120 feet. In addition, he becomes immune to all fear and compulsion effects, and can cast geas/quest once per day as a spell–like ability. Alternatively, the knight of grace can spend his daily use of geas/quest to end a geas/quest cast by another as if using remove curse spell. This ability replaces supreme charge.
Table: Knight of Grace
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Challenge 1/day, mount, mystery, oracle’s curse, order — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Order ability — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Revelation — — — —
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Challenge 2/day 0 — — —
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Rally prophecy 1 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Revelation 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Challenge 3/day 1 0 — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Order ability 1 1 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 2 1 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Challenge 4/day 2 1 0 —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Mighty charge 2 1 1 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Demanding challenge, revelation 2 2 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Challenge 5/day 3 2 1 0
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Greater rallying prophecy 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Order ability 3 2 2 1
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Challenge 6/day 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Revelation 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Challenge 7/day 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Champion of devotion 4 4 3 3
The following new oracle curse can be chosen by anyone with the oracle’s curse class feature. This oracle curse compliments the Kight of Grace multiclass archetype.
Visionary
Images of the past, future, and distant worlds constantly dance before your eyes, making it difficult to discern reality.
Effect: You always take a –5 penalty to your initiative roll during the first round of combat. You gain a bonus on your divination spells DC equal to 1/2 your oracle level.
At 5th level, when attempting to disbelieve an illusion, you can roll twice and use the higher roll as your result.
At 10th level, add contact other plane to your list of spells known.
At 15th level, add vision to your list of spells known.
Cavaliers of the order of the moon covertly serve the interests of a deity and spread the deity’s word in the world of men. They don’t pledge alliance to any particular church or law, as they consider it more important to obey the will of the spirits.
Edicts: The cavalier must stay true to his faith above the laws of man. He must remain faithful to his god, pass on its prophecies, and follow the visions it sends, never lying or denying them.
Challenge: Whenever an order of the moon cavalier issues a challenge, his deity grants him a brief vision of the likely outcome of the battle. The cavalier receives a +1 morale bonus on all damage rolls against the target of his challenge. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses.
Skills: An order of the star cavalier adds Knowledge (religion) (Int) and Perception (Wis) to his list of class skills. Whenever the cavalier uses Sense Motive to sense enchantments, he receives a competence bonus on the check equal to 1/2 his cavalier level (minimum +1).
Order Abilities: An order of the moon cavalier gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Carry the Burden (Ex): At 2nd level, the cavalier can pronounce a prophecy of doom upon a single opponent as a standard action. The cavalier must make an Intimidate check against the opponent (DC 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier). If the check is successful, the opponent receives a penalty to its initiative equal to the cavalier’s Charisma modifier until the end of combat. The cavalier can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier, but only once per combat. In addition, if the cavalier has the oracle’s curse ability, he adds his cavalier levels to any oracle levels he possesses for the purposes of determining the effects of his curse.
Favor of the Spirits (Su): At 8th level, the cavalier has been touched by the forces of the universe. The cavalier selects one oracle mystery to which he does not already have access. The cavalier gains a single revelation the mystery can grant a 1st-level oracle. For purposes of using that power, his oracle level is equal to his cavalier level –2, even if he has levels in oracle. He does not gain any of the other mystery abilities. If the cavalier has the mystery class ability (or gains it afterwards), he gains Extra Revelation as a bonus feat instead of this ability.
Saving Foresight (Su): At 15th level, whenever an attack from a foe would bring the cavalier’s hit points below 0, the attacker must reroll the attack roll and take second result if it is worse, possibly negating the attack. If the cavalier avoids damage, he gains an immediate attack of opportunity against the attacker.
ok so this MCA kinda comes from the Handicapped Badass tvtrop
there is a lot here so we can probably trim it down but i was looking to keep it more fighter then oracle so i am definitely not trying to add spells but i could see the number of feats dropping.
will try and be on more
Adaptive Fighter
Wars don't end because you get hurt, similarly being not being completely physically able will not keep you out of the draft. Many people just fall to the wayside or fall in battle when too injured to fight but a select few can overcome great odds and become masterful warriors regardless of what holds them back.
Hit Die: d10.
Saves: fort and will high/ref low
Skills: 2+int mod
Fighter pulse two Oracle skills
1st Something to Overcome
2nd Bonus feat
3rd Revelation
4th Bonus feat
5th Keep Pushing 1
6th Bonus feat
7th Revelation
8th Bonus feat
9th Keep Pushing 2
10th Bonus feat
11th Revelation
12th Bonus feat
13th Keep Pushing 3
14th Bonus feat
15th Revelation
16th Bonus feat
17th Keep Pushing 4
18th Bonus feat
19th Revelation
20th Bonus feat, Adaptive and Overcome
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An Adaptive Fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (light, and medium) and shields (not including tower shields).
Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, and at every even level thereafter, an Adaptive Fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the Adaptive Fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.” Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), an Adaptive Fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the Adaptive Fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. An Adaptive Fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.
Something to Overcome (Ex): Adaptive Fighter is adaptive because they have something to overcome not because life came easy. At level 1 he must choose an oracle’s curse, and once made, it cannot be changed; as well it cannot be removed or dispelled without the aid of a deity. Use the Adaptive Fighter’s level as the Oracle level for the purpose of determine the effect of the oracle's curse. They may also add Amputee to the list of passable curses.
Amputee: You are missing a hand or most of your arm. You cannot wield 2weapons at the same time, two handed weapons, or shield in your off hand. but you can use your stump to defend yourself from combat maneuvers gaining a +2 to your CMD. At 5th level, you can use your stump as a natural weapon 1d6 slam adding your full STR MOD to damage. At 10th level, the bonus from your stump to your CMD becomes +4. At 15th level, the damage from your slam attack becomes a 1d8.
Force of Will: the Adaptive Fighter can manifest his will to keep fighting in to magic like effects in the form of Revelations and may pick a Revelation from the Battle Metal or Ancestor Mysteries at level 3 and every 4 levels after.
Keep Pushing: at level 5 and the Adaptive Fighter can act as if he has one of many feats he decides what feat he wants to use at the being of the day. At level 9 and every 4 level after he can choose an additional feat to use for the day. He need not qualify for the feats he chooses
At level 5 an Adaptive Fighter may choose from Endurance, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, and Toughness.
At level 9 he add Diehard, Improved Great Fortitude, Improved Iron Will, Improved Lightning Reflexes, and Nimble Moves to the list of feat he can choose from.
At level 13 he add Acrobatic Steps and Fast Healer to the list of feat he can choose from.
Adaptive and Overcome (Ex): At 20th level, an Adaptive Fighter can overcome anything even death. the Adaptive Fighter may act as if unaffected by any affliction he is suffering including death as long as he has a body; he may do this for a number of rounds equal to his level a day, these rounds need not be consecutive .
Fyi the amputee curse basically begs for the clockwork prosthesis from magical marketplace.
we could note it as long as it is not replaced he gains the bonuses
#Knight of grace
It's OK for me, I'd just still correct the spell progression table.
And here's the last contribution:
Cavaliers of the order of the serpent devote themselves to heal the sick and ailing, are versed in ministering and contrasting venoms, and are gifted with regenerative powers.
Edicts: The cavalier must show mercy to the ill and wounded. He must protect healers, hospitals and places of healing, and offer aid even to wounded enemies after a fight. He can’t harm an healer or inflict a coup of grace to an incapacitated foe.
Challenge: Whenever an order of the serpent cavalier issues a challenge, he gains DR 1/– on all attacks from the target of his challenge as long as the target uses poison as a natural attack or on its weapons. This DR increases by 1 point for every four levels the cavalier possesses.
Skills: An order of the serpent cavalier adds Craft (alchemy) (Int) and Heal (Wis) to his list of class skills. He can attempt Heal skill checks untrained. If he has ranks in the skill, he receives a bonus on the check equal to ½ his cavalier level (minimum +1) when treating poison or disease.
Order Abilities:
Untouched By Corruption (Su): At 2nd level, the cavalier receives a +2 bonus on saving throws against poison. At 8th level and every six levels thereafter, this bonus increases by an additional +1. In addition, the cavalier gains the poison use alchemist class ability.
Saving Bite/Death Bite (Su): At 8th level, the cavalier gains the swift poisoning alchemist class ability. Once per combat, he can choose to give either his weapon or his mount’s natural attack the properties of a dagger of poison for a number of rounds equal to his cavalier level. If he does so, his weapon hand or his mount’s head or paws take on a reptilian appearance (scales, fangs, pointed claws) for the effect’s duration. Good cavaliers may only administer nonlethal poisons this way. This ability may be used also to deliver a neutralize poison effect.
Force of Vitality (Su): At 15th level, the cavalier gains fast healing 2 against poison and negative energy attacks. Every 8 hit points healed this way restore a point of characteristic damage too.
Nice Order Bardess. I like the whole poison/poisoned healer trope.
# PACTGIFTED CHAMPION
Oceanshieldwolf clarified a few things about this, so I'll try to take a look at it. I've not followed the discussion, so I come to it with no preconceptions and try to understand what it does "from scratch".
I love shapechangers in all shapes and forms, and the idea of using the summoner class to make one occurred to me too, so I'll make parallels between this and what I've written earlier, particularily in the shape dancer AT.
@ Pact Avatar
As far as I can understand, you build an eidolon form for yourself, but you do not actually have an eidolon - instead this is a form you can assume for a limited time each day. Most of this ability is very similar to how an eidolon works; rather than trying to describe this all over again, perhaps we can just reference the eidolon rules? Or at least lean on them.
I feel this ability is weaker than the eidolon. Assuming eidolon form for 1 minute/level next to having an actual separate eidolon constantly around, with its own separate pool of hit points. On the other hand, it does have some advantages, for example the pact form benefits from most of the character's magic items.
It's noted that the pact avatar does not use the characters Strength and Dexterity bonuses (presumingly using the character's own). Wouldn't it be simpler for the pact avatar to simply use the character's ability scores as its starting ability scores?
I also see no special reason not to allow all base forms, but perhaps we then need to add a note about limbs and somatic components.
I've tried writing a suggested text for this ability, copying much from the shape dancer I linked above. The creation of the actual pact avatar is very summarily described by referencing the eidolon ability of the summoner - perhaps that part from the current version of the pactgifted champion should be kept.
As the chosen avatar of his patron, the pactgifted champion is gifted with the power to assume the form of a pact avatar. The pactgifted champion can assume the form of his pact avatar as a swift action for 1 minute per pactgifted champion level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. He can end his pact avatar manifestation as a free action.
At 1st level, the pactgifted champion builds this alternate form like a summoner builds an eidolon, using the pool of evolution points . The pact avatar uses the shape dancer's ability scores as its starting ability scores, regardless of it's base form. Level and evolutions can modify the pact avatar's physical ability scores from these base values. The transmogrify spell can change the evolutions of the pact avatar. A pactgifted champion's pact avatar is restricted from selecting the following evolutions: basic magic, minor magic, major magic, ultimate magic.
A pactgifted champion in pact avatar form gains all abilities of an eidolon, except the eidolon’s link and share spells abilities. He counts as both his original type and as a magical beast of the shapechanger subtype for any effect related to type. The pactgifted champion can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor. He uses the pact avatar's ability scores instead of his own. The pact avatar must have limbs for the pactgifted champion to cast spells with somatic components.
This ability replaces eidolon.
The rest of the pactgifted champion seems pretty straightforward to me.
# Pactgifted Champion
@Starfox - some great points here!
I feel this ability is weaker than the eidolon. Assuming eidolon form for 1 minute/level next to having an actual separate eidolon constantly around, with its own separate pool of hit points. On the other hand, it does have some advantages, for example the pact form benefits from most of the character's magic items.
Yes, the PC does not have a) an eidolon buddy, nor b) a bunch of summoned monsters. However, there are also the hexes… I think in an earlier version, or my brainstorm, the hexes were only usable during the manifestation of the avatar…
If they can use hexes regardless of the avatar manifestation, (i.e.all the time) my concern was the power of a 3/4 BAB, d8, light armored Summoner with Hexes...It's noted that the pact avatar does not use the characters Strength and Dexterity bonuses (presumingly using the character's own). Wouldn't it be simpler for the pact avatar to simply use the character's ability scores as its starting ability scores?
I think there's some error here - (says character twice where once I think you meant Eidolon - maybe you are editing this as I write it). It might actually be a buff to gain the eidolon base stats, so I'm all for that, if that is what you are saying… All I meant was that the avatar didn't gain the bonuses to Str/Dex by level, nor the ability score bonus, but then , why the hell not? Given the loss of the whole other eidolon buddy schtick, let's load the ability the PC does have.
Note I'm definitely against the PC "gaining" the base forms mental stats (Int/Wis/Cha). He doesn't become primally stupid. He becomes physically augmented. Thoughts? I guess folk might like the fun role-play of a brutish avatar. That just wasn't the flavor I was going for, and this isn't really one of those things you can have both you r cake and eat it… Unless you make two streams of Pact Avatars ("augmented champion" and "channeled pact") and then you get complicated.
I also see no special reason not to allow all base forms, but perhaps we then need to add a note about limbs and somatic components.
Well, this isn't intended to be a whole-shapechanger. The avatar is supposed to be an augmented version of the character - which is why I specified biped. (I did think about non-humanoid characters, but later forgot to mention it - I think it makes things very difficult if someone wants to be a wolf or otyugh or gelatinous cube pact gifted champion. )
Note that this is why I asked Elghinn to reskin the familiar skill bonuses to humanoid, so that the flavor isn't raging beast wolf avatar, but mutated pact champion avatar.I know Evil Lincoln could come in here and say "why restrict this to one form if you guys are all about options…". If folk are open to it then sure. It makes sense that different patrons would supply different forms...
**** As to your writeup - not bad. I don't think Elghinn's is much more complicated than yours, and I actually prefer to have certain things spelled out so they are clear for this instance. After all, the Pact Avatar isn't an Eidolon, and has some differences.
- The magical beast type is thematically a great call - the magic powers of the patron would certainly include being seen as this type.
- I see now you mean for the Pact Avatar to use the eidolon's base statistics. Fair enough. Might as well throw in all the Str/Dex bonuses by level, and ability score upgrades.
Then you have a d8, 3/4 BAB Summoner, with Eidolon Str and Dex, plus bonuses to those and ability bonuses. Could get crazy. Also, what if the base form is lower than the PC?
- I think there really needs to be some comment about the effects of wearing armor. Not just that the avatar can't take advantage of it, but also that it might constrain, constrict or damage him. EIther that or just ignore it, and it forms a part of the avatar's physicality without providing any protection. Or maybe it can. Might be worth a feat… :)
Feck, I had a long post typed out and ready to post when my mouse played up and I lost it! I'll try to reconstruct it from memory.
I like both the new orders a lot. The knight of grace is shaping up well. If this post seems wrong, it is more me being wordy (you should have seen the first draft - perhaps losing that was a benefit in the end).
@ Knight of Grace
Is the Visionary curse and the Order of the Moon and Order of the Serpent intended only for the knight of grace?
"Oracle’s Curse: ... He may choose any oracle’s curse allowed to an oracle or the new Visionary curse. ...
Order: ...knight of grace can also choose the new Order of the Moon. ..."
If the new curse and orders are available to all, this need not be noted here. Taking a note from the Kitsune Trickster archetype for rogues "The following new rogue talents can be taken by any rogue who meets the prerequisites, but they are more common among kitsune.", it could be worded like this:
The new Visionary curse can be taken by any oracle and the new Moon and Serpent orders can be taken by any cavalier, but they are more common among knights of grace.# Visionary Curse
Effect: You always take a –10 penalty to your initiative roll. You gain a bonus on your divination spells DC equal to 1/2 your oracle level.# Carry the Burden:
At 2nd level, before rolling initiative, the cavalier can pronounce a prophecy of doom upon a single opponent within 60 ft. as a free action. The opponent receives a penalty to its initiative equal to the cavalier’s Charisma modifier until the end of combat. The cavalier can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier, but only once per combat and not if he is surprised.
Both of the above have been simplified and written so that it works with my interpretation of how initiative works.
I increased the initiative penalty for Visionary; it is to feel costly and might still be a little lenient for a curse.
Giving up one of your own standard actions for a penalty on an opponent's initiative (which can never actually cost him an action) seems pretty pointless to me. With the new writing, I don't feel this needs to affect the oracle's curse in a beneficial way. That could actually be interesting as a separate ability, perhaps a revelation.
# Force of Vitality (Su:
At 15th level, the cavalier takes nonlethal damage from poison and negative energy attacks, and heals ability damage from such attacks at the rate of one point per minute of rest.
Having fast healing that only affects certain types of damage is actually what regeneration does, and seemed a bit overcomplicated for the situation. Tried to simplify.
Hi, Oceanshieldwolf!
# Pact Avatar
As always, I post something close to a stream-of-consciousness spray of ideas; some good, some bad, some just not fitting the original idea.
My idea was for the pact avatar to ignore the ability scores of the base form and use the character's own ability scores as its base, then add modifications for evolutions. The pact avatar suffers and gains the weaknesses and strengths of the character's original form.
That way you avoid the 3E druid wildshape problem; dump stats with no repercussions. This is the problem with the infamous synthesist.
Hi, Oceanshieldwolf!
# Pact Avatar
As always, I post something close to a stream-of-consciousness spray of ideas; some good, some bad, some just not fitting the original idea.
My idea was for the pact avatar to ignore the ability scores of the base form and use the character's own ability scores as its base, then add modifications for evolutions. The pact avatar suffers and gains the weaknesses and strengths of the character's original form.
That way you avoid the 3E druid wildshape problem; dump stats with no repercussions. This is the problem with the infamous synthesist.
No probe Starfox. Pretty sure that's exactly the way I envisaged it (and posted it - I neglected to mention the biped's stat array at all) - that's also why I put in all the caveats that the Str/Dex and ability score bonuses don't get added.
BUT, seeing as we are both envisaging the pact avatar not getting the base form stat array, maybe it could actually add the Str/Dex bonuses. Seems like a fair augmentation. :)
BUT, seeing as we are both envisaging the pact avatar not getting the base form stat array, maybe it could actually add the Str/Dex bonuses. Seems like a fair augmentation. :)
Yes, I don't see that as very problematic, as long as its not getting full BAB.
Yes, the new curse and orders are available to all characters.
I'm going to address the PC and KoG before moving on to the Adaptive Fighter posted by Thomas, A.
#Pactgifted Champion
I've reworded my Pact Avatar entry to incorporate aspects of Starfox's.
Pact Avatar: As the chosen avatar of his patron, the pactgifted champion is gifted with the power to assume the form of a pact avatar. The pactgifted champion can assume the form of his pact avatar as a swift action for 1 minute per pactgifted champion level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. He can end his pact avatar manifestation as a free action.
At 1st level, the pactgifted champion uses her ability scores and other statistics as her base form, and receives a pool of evolution points as shown on Table: Eidolon Base Statistics. Points from this pool can be spent on a wide variety of modifications and upgrades that add new abilities, attacks, and powers to the pactgifted champion. Whenever the pactgifted champion gains a level, the number in this pool increases and the pactgifted champion can spend these points to change the abilities. These choices are not set. The pactgifted champion can change them whenever he gains a level (and through the transmogrify spell). A pactgifted champion's pact avatar is restricted from selecting the following evolutions: basic magic, minor magic, major magic, ultimate magic.
While in his pact avatar form, the pactgifted champion also gains the eidolon’s armor bonus, Strength and Dexterity bonus, and max attacks, as well as the darkvision, evasion, devotion, multiattack and improved evasion abilities at the indicated levels. A pactgifted champion does not gain the eidolon’s link, share spells, or ability score increase abilities of an eidolon. A pactgifted champion counts as both his original type and as a magical beast for the purpose of determining any effect related to type when in his pact avatar form.
In addition, while in his pact avatar form, the pactgifted champion can use all of his class abilities and gear as normal. Any armor worn by the pactgifted becomes part of his base form and is counted as his initial armor bonus until his form is dismissed. This ability replaces eidolon.
#Knight of Grace
I think Starfox's fixes are good. I think we can now close the books on both the Pactgifted Champion and Knight of Grace.
@Everyone
I'll take a look at The Adaptive Fighter tomorrow. And BTW my bad, I emailed Thomas A. to post his thinking he was up next (which he was before we added Koujow and Desidero to the queue. So we'll do his and Koujow's Kabuki Warrior in this next round.
I'm just going to start the discussion on the Kabuki Warrior, Koujow should be joining us to help with the conversation and flesh things out.
This should be the basic parts of the build.
Fluff
Primary: Samurai.
Secondary: Bard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The kabuki warrior selects three bard skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal samurai class skills. The kabuki warrior gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The kabuki warrior is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, plus the katana, naginata, and wakizashi. The kabuki warrior is also proficient with all types of armor (heavy, light, and medium, and with shields (except tower shields).
As it sits, I don't think there will be a need for spells, as it seems more of a performance based MCA instead. I've also taken a look at various archetypes that could help in this build.
From the Bard's COURT BARD archetype, we should look at the Satire, Mockery, Glorious Epic, and possibly the Scandal performanes. Plus the Heraldic Expertise class feature (replace Weapon Experties?) We could also use some of the normal bard performances too.
Also, to keep the samurai flavor, instead of the normal Bardic Knowledge, give him the Geisha Knowledge class feature (GEISHA bard archetype).
Here's some possible swaps I've though of.
SWAPS
1)Resolve, Greater resolve, True resolve, Banner, Greater Banner = Geisha Knowledge, Bardic performance, Facinate, Satire, Mockery, Glorious Tales; Inspire courage, Inspire Greatness, Inspire Heroics (all or some combination there of)
2) Weapon expertise = Heraldic expertise
3) Mounted archer = Well-versed
4) Bonus feats = Versatile Performance
*Another avenue we could use is to create a new Samurai order that grants thinks like Geisha Knowledge, and some other bard-esque class features.
Then we can look at incorporating aspects of Kabuki (acing, masks, dark ninja-like clothing) suggested by Koujow or plumb ideas from his Kabuki link.
And there is also Starfox's comments about the kabuki stage hand costumes being the forerunnners for ninjas and the idea of being "invisible" within the social conventions. So we can also work with the idead of getting the Kabuki Warrior to blend into his surroundings, disappearing into a crowd, making himself inconspicuous, and really, being an expert at disguise, distraction, and becoming an nonthreatening aspect of the social scenery. There is also his Kuroko link to look at too.
Then my next archetype will be the Mechagolem Pilot (Samurai/Summoner). Put the other ones down in queue, please. I'm going to have quite a bit of fun creating the Order of the Majin. ^^
my bad for skipping over people
#Kabuki Warrior
Don't forget Performance Weapon stuff from Ultimate Combat. I just got TPK Games Ultimate Gladiator which made me think of it, plus I have a Dark Sun Fighter (Gladiator)/Inquisitor (Witch Hunter) character in a PbP with these feats:
Weapon Focus: xxx
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Dazzling Display
Benefit: While wielding the weapon in which you have Weapon Focus, you can perform a bewildering show of prowess as a full-round action. Make an Intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 30 feet who can see your display.
Performance Weapon Mastery
Benefit: You treat all weapons you are proficient in as if they had the performance weapon quality.
[threadjack]
Just linking this interesting article by Alexander Augunas: The Merits of Multiclassing.
Some very interesting points about the problems of level dependent abilities of witch and cavaliers, and pointed comments about the new hybrids coming up in the ACG…
[/threadjack]
Then my next archetype will be the Mechagolem Pilot (Samurai/Summoner). Put the other ones down in queue, please. I'm going to have quite a bit of fun creating the Order of the Majin. ^^
Done!
my bad for skipping over people
That was me, not you.
Looks really well structured so far! It's almost like you've done this before. ;)
I gotta wonder what happened to the mask idea though, seemed really unique. Maybe there could be some bonded item mask in place of the mount?
Veiled Illusionist could be a good inspiration in that regard.
# Kabuki Warrior
@Desidero:
Don't forget the Scarred Witch Doctor Orc racial Witch archetype or check the Dreadmasque MCA...
Good work on the Pactgifted Champion and Knight of Grace.
[threadjack]
Just linking this interesting article by Alexander Augunas: The Merits of Multiclassing.Some very interesting points about the problems of level dependent abilities of witch and cavaliers, and pointed comments about the new hybrids coming up in the ACG…
[/threadjack]
I was once like him., I thought multiclassing was a vital part of DnD. But in Pathfinder I find the Archetype idea superior; it is just not worth the work to use multiclassing and prestige classes when an archetype is so much easier to use.
#Kabuki
Kabuki Warrior looks good so far, even if the concept is a bit weird - you can be a warrior and a kabuki actor, but is there really a special class of warriors that combine these talents? Well, now there is! Or soon, at least. About the geisha ability, if it fun to know that early Kabuki was known as "whore theater" and had only female actors. Later, females were forbidden to appear on stage, but kabuki was popular enough to survive and shift to male actors.
I am against a samurai order for kabuki. That would be available to all samurai, and most samurai would find it dishonorable.
And as 'wolf points out, we recently did a Dreammasque; I think we'll want to keep the kabuki warrior separate from that and not go too heavily on the mask theme.
# Adaptive Fighter
My first impression was skeptic, but I find myself warming to this guy as I check up the abilities. This guy trades half of his bonus fears, armor training, and weapon training for half a mystery and an oracle's curse. It also has some unique feat pools to add flexibility.
Class skills should mention the mystery skill.
Not all oracle curses are suitable; those that grant new known spells least o fall. A short note like "not all oracle curses are appropriate for an adaptive fighter, in particular those that grant spells the adaptive fighter cannot use." I think this is better than a list of specific allowed or prohibited curses - there are some good curses from non-pazio sources, and looking those up would be a pain.
The revelations can compensate for armor and weapons training, giving the class needed bite - but still less than a fighter. Most class abilities/feats are defensive, making this is more of a tank type defensive class. As it is, you can choose between aggressive and defensive revelations. This allows builds that are more defensive than a fighter, but the aggressive options are less than what a fighter gets. As such I could see some abilities that lets him shield his comrades, something like a "look out sir" effect where he steps in the way of an attack targeting an adjacent ally. Either that or something to let him pack more of a wallop.
Adapt and overcome can be misread in fun ways. "Keep his corpse handy. For 20 rounds a day he will reanimate and fight for you." Better specify you have to activate this as you die and cannot activate it when dead. Otherwise its ok by me.
# Kabuki Warrior
Well, I'm up for another bonded mask if that's what Desidero is after. Especially if there are a bunch of oni/demon/kami masks available…
War and battle as performance, and performance of battle and war works really well for me.
Good work on the Pactgifted Champion and Knight of Grace.
[threadjack]
Just linking this interesting article by Alexander Augunas: The Merits of Multiclassing.Some very interesting points about the problems of level dependent abilities of witch and cavaliers, and pointed comments about the new hybrids coming up in the ACG…
[/threadjack]I was once like him., I thought multiclassing was a vital part of DnD. But in Pathfinder I find the Archetype idea superior; it is just not worth the work to use multiclassing and prestige classes when an archetype is so much easier to use.
Heh. You can read where he labels MCAs "part of the problem" HERE. I guess it is his problem, not ours.
I see what we do as definitely improving the possibilities of broader applications of the classes - particularly with reference to the problems he specifies are inherent in the APG Base classes (witch and cavalier, I'd say inquisitor too maybe.)
His views on multi-classing seem to me to indicate that he would be a fan of a classless role-playing game, which DnD/ pathfinder has never been and is if anything trying to move away from. A class based system is always going to be biased either towards multi-classing or single class characters and pathfinder has chosen to go towards single class characters.
Heh. You can read where he labels MCAs "part of the problem" HERE. I guess it is his problem, not ours.
I see what we do as definitely improving the possibilities of broader applications of the classes - particularly with reference to the problems he specifies are inherent in the APG Base classes (witch and cavalier, I'd say inquisitor too maybe.)
The funny thing is, that with the writer being an od school player, he doesn't realize that MCAs are one of the best methods to do old school multiclassing without having to multiclass and deal with the level issues for abilities. I agree, archetypes are superior to actual multiclassing as it sits. Like you said OSW, its his issue, not ours.
#Kabuki Warrior
I'm collesing all the different ideas into something I'll post later today hopefully.
#Adaptive Fighter
Finally getting a chance to look it over and get it copied onto my master doc worhing.
OK, let's start with this and we can add to, remove from, or adjust it as we need to.
Samurai’s spend much of their time studying the finer points of erudition and etiquette, in addition to sword play, battle training. Kabuki warriors take use this study of erudition and etiquette and transform it into an sophisticated set of performances and magic that allow them to take up the role of a resplendent play actor and artist-in-residence under the patronage of nobility, royalty, or some well-moneyed elite with aspirations of joining their ranks. The kabuki warrior utilizes a special mask to enhance these performances, allowing him to appear as almost any one he chooses, as he fulfills out his purposes. Whether assassination, espionage, or simply infiltrating an enemy lord’s court, kabuki warriors often go unnoticed until they have accomplishes what they has set out to do.
Primary: Samurai.
Secondary: Bard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The kabuki warrior selects three bard skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal samurai class skills. The kabuki warrior gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The kabuki warrior is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, plus the katana, naginata, and wakizashi. The kabuki warrior is also proficient with all types of armor (heavy, light, and medium, and with shields (except tower shields).
Bardic Performance: At 1s level, a kabuki warrior gains the bard’s bardic performance ability and gains access to the following types of bardic performance at the indicated levels.
Din (Sp): A kabuki warrior can use his performance to create auditory effects that enhance his surroundings. This effect is similar to the ghost sound spell. To be affected, a creature must be able to hear the kabuki warrior perform and be within 30 feet. For every three levels a kabuki warrior has attained beyond 1st, he can target one additional creature with this ability. Each creature within range receives a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the kabuki warrior’s level + the kabuki warrior’s Charisma modifier) to disbelieve the effect. If its saving throw fails, the creature hears the sound for as long as the kabuki warcontinues to maintain it, plus a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier once the performance is ended. Din is an illusion (figment) effect that uses audible components.
Props (Sp): A kabuki warrior can use his performance to create illusions of an object, creature, or force as visualized by the kabuki warrior. This effect is similar to the silent image spell. To be affected, a creature must be able to hear and see the kabuki warrior perform and be within 30 feet. Each creature within range receives a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the kabuki warrior’s level + the kabuki warrior’s Charisma modifier) to disbelieve the effect. If its saving throw fails, the creature sees the images for as long as the kabuki warrior continues to maintain it, plus a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier once the performance is ended. Props can be used to enhance the auditory effects of a creature that has already been affected by the din performance (see above). Doing so costs the same number of rounds as using only the din performance. Using this ability does not disrupt the din effect, but it does require a standard action to activate (in addition to the free action to continue the din effect). Props is an illusion (figment) effect that uses audible components.
Satire (Su): A kabuki warrior can use performance to undermine the confidence of enemies who hear it, causing them to take a –1 penalty on attack and damage rolls (minimum 1) and a –1 penalty on saves against fear and charm effects as long as the kabuki warrior continues performing. This penalty increases by –1 at 5th level and every six levels thereafter. Satire is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that uses audible components.
Mockery (Su): A kabuki warrior of 3rd level or higher can subtly ridicule and defame a specific individual. The kabuki warrior selects one target who can hear his performance. That individual takes a –2 penalty on Charisma checks and Charisma-related skill checks as long as the kabuki warrior continues performing. This penalty increases by –1 every four levels after 3rd. Mockery is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that relies on audible components.
Glorious Epic (Su): A kabuki warrior of 9th level or higher can weave captivating tales that engross those who hear them. Enemies within 30 feet become flat-footed unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the kabuki warrior’s level + the kabuki warrior’s Charisma modifier). A save renders them immune to this ability for 24 hours. Glorious epic is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that uses audible components.
Inspire Greatness (Su): A kabuki warrior of 11th level gains the bard’s inspire greatness performance.
Scandal (Su): A kabuki warrior of 14th level or higher can combine salacious gossip and biting calumny to incite a riot. Each enemy within 30 feet is affected as if by a song of discord for as long as it can hear the performance. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the kabuki warrior’s level + the kabuki warrior’s Charisma modifier) negates the effect, and that creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours. Scandal is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that uses audible components.
Inspire Heroics (Su): A kabuki warrior of 17th level gains the bard’s inspire heroics performance.
This ability replaces resolve, greater resolve, honorable stand, greater banner, and true resolve.
Bonus Feats: This is exactly like the samurai ability of the same name, and adds performance feats to the list of feats he can select.
Kabuki Mask (Su): At 1st level, a kabuki warrior forms a bond with a painted wooden mask begins play with one at no cost. This mask is always of master work quality. Kabuki masks acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material and must be worn to have any effect.
When wearing his kabuki mask, the kabuki warrior adds half his class level (minimum 1) on all Diplomacy checks, Intimidate checks, Knowledge (local) checks, Knowledge (nobility) checks, and one type of Perform check (act, dance, or sing) or his choice. He may make checks with these skills untrained.
A kabuki mask grants the kabuki warrior a reserve of magical energy that can be used to alter his appearance. This kabuki pool has a number of points equal to his class level + his Charisma modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the kabuki warrior prepares rests for 8 hours. A kabuki warrior often uses these points to appear as common folk, allowing him to blend into the crowd, whether it’s on stage, in the bustling market place, or in the court of a ruling lord.
As a standard action, the kabuki warrior can spend 1 point from his pool to alter his appearance as per the spell disguise self. This is a glamer effect that lasts a number of hours equal to the kabuki warrior's class level. The DC to disbelieve the effect is equal to 15 + the number of points remaining in the kabuki warrior's kabuki pool.
At 3rd level, the kabuki warrior can alter his perceived audible (sound) properties when he assumes his disguise. At 5th level, the kabuki warrior can also alter his perceived tactile (touch) properties, and can imitate any voice with which he is familiar. At 9th level, the kabuki warrior's disguise fools even extraordinary senses, such as scent, blindsight, or tremorsense.
At 5th level, a kabuki warrior can use his mask to appear as humanoid creatures with greater variations in size. He can expend 1 point from his kabuki pool to appear as any Small or Medium humanoid creature, even if doing so exceeds the limitations of disguise self. At 9th level, a kabuki warrior can expend 1 point from his kabuki pool to appear as any Large or Tiny humanoid creature. Additionally, a kabuki warrior can expend 2 points from his kabuki pool to appear as one either an earth yai oni, fire yai oni, ice yai oni, or ogre mage.
A kabuki warrior can add magical abilities to his mask like any other magical item, through the use of a spellcaster and at his cost. The magic properties of a kabuki mask, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the kabuki warrior who owns it. If a kabuki mask's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork mask.
If a kabuki mask is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the kabuki warrior rests for the day. If the kabuki mask is lost or destroyed, the kabuki warrior can create another one. Doing so takes 8 hours to complete and costs 100 gp per kabuki warrior level plus the cost of the masterwork item. Kabuki masks replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous mask item. A kabuki warrior can designate an existing mask as his kabuki mask. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed mask except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a kabuki mask.
This ability replaces mount.
Performance Weapon Mastery: At 3rd level, a kabuki warrior gains Performance Weapon Mastery as a bonus feat. This ability replaces weapon expertise.
Dazzling Display: At 4th level, a kabuki warrior gains Dazzling Display as a bonus feat. This ability replaces mounted archer.
Costume Training (Ex): At 5th level, the kabukie warrior has become so used to wearing strange and cumbersome costumes for his performances that he reduces the armor check penalty for by 1 (to a minimum of 0) when wearing armor. Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), this bonus increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty. This ability replaces banner.
Table: Kabuki Warrior
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Bardic performance, challenge 1/day, din, kabuki mask, order, props, satire
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Order ability
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Performance weapon mastery, mockery
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Challenge 2/day, dazzling display
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Costume training
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Challenge 3/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Order ability
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Glorious epic
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Challenge 4/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Inspire greatness
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus feat, demanding challenge
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Challenge 5/day
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Scandal
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Order ability
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Challenge 6/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Inspire heroics
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Challenge 7/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Last stand
SWAPS
Mount = Kabuki mask
Resolve (3) = Bardic performance, satire, props (silent image), din (ghost sounds)
Weapons expertise = Performance Weapon Mastery
Mounted archer = Dazzling display
Banner = Costume training
Bonus feats = Performance feats
Greater resolve = Inspire greatness
Greater banner = Scandal
True resolve = Inspire heroics
Last stand = ???
Not sure if we want to swap out Last Stand?
#Adaptive Fighter
The revelations section states that the Adaptive Fighter can choose any revelation from the Battle, Metal, or Ancestor mysteries. So, he doesn't choose one of those mysteries, but instead has access to any of those mystery's revelations? I believe we've done something similar in another MCA. OR are you wanting him to choose one of the mysteries and gains access to only that mystery's reveelations. Just clarifying.
I think the Kabuki warrior should be able to spend points from his mask to make some of his bardic performance effects last longer. That way if the warrior is involved with intrigue at a court or some other non-combat situation he can debuff rivals for an amount of time that matters.
Hello, MCA crew! I've been. Uh. Lurking on the threads since IV, when curiosity drew me to this brilliant, brilliant project. I've watched the development process for quite a few and decided that you guys are all just brilliant. So I decided what better place to go to for help?
I've been trying to create a sort of necromantic knight class; full BAB, D10 hit die, wielding the powers of the dead alongside prowess in combat to bring ruin to one's enemies. But I'm stuck. I'm not sure where to start or where to go. I thought maybe you guys could help?
An Antipaladin/Magus, perhaps, would be my thought. If there's any place for a newcomer and her ideas, I'd love to see what you guys could help me do with this concept.
~~Grace
@Browman
Do you mean beyond the "while the performance is maintained" aspect of the performances? Give me an example of what performances you think that spending mask points could be used with to make them last longer? I just need more specific info.
Hello, MCA crew! I've been. Uh. Lurking on the threads since IV, when curiosity drew me to this brilliant, brilliant project. I've watched the development process for quite a few and decided that you guys are all just brilliant. So I decided what better place to go to for help?
I've been trying to create a sort of necromantic knight class; full BAB, D10 hit die, wielding the powers of the dead alongside prowess in combat to bring ruin to one's enemies. But I'm stuck. I'm not sure where to start or where to go. I thought maybe you guys could help?
An Antipaladin/Magus, perhaps, would be my thought. If there's any place for a newcomer and her ideas, I'd love to see what you guys could help me do with this concept.
~~Grace
Welcome gracefulArmaggedon! Newcomers are always welcome. If you've looked at our opening post, we welcome anyone with a concept for an MCA. We use a queue system, where I slot people in and as they come up in the queue, that's the one we work on.
For your Antipaladin/Magus, we'll see what we can do. Usually, we slot in first time newcomers ahead of the regulars who have already had 2-3+ MCAs developed ont he thread, just to get their feet wet and hopefully keep them around for further comments and ideas on upcoming MCAs. This is a group creation process after all. But I have a few regulars whose concepts have been pushed back a few times due to unforseen circumstances, etc. Are you needing this by a certain time?
Our list of Antipaladin primary MCAs are small, so additional ones would be welcome. You may want to look at the opening post of this thread for our format, though, we are also fine with just basic concepts, then everyone interjects their ideas and we discuss until things are narrowed down to the genreal MCA and then we construct and deconstruct from there. Just make sure you have a solid conceptual idea for sure, such as what aspects or class features you'd liek to keep from the Antipalain, and what you would like to add in from the magus. I don't have my queue list infront of me, but likely your concept will be up in 2-5 MCAs down the list. There are a few other newcomers waiting for their turn too.
I think antipaladin/wizard might be more apropos to that concept.
Antipaladin/Necromancer, or maybe better, Antipaladin/Undead Sorcerer?
Antipaladin/Necromancer, or maybe better, Antipaladin/Undead Sorcerer?
right, thats what i was getting at.
Just for a current update on the queue. I moved LongKnae/Orelius's MCA up since it was a newcomer's concept but Orelius is taking a stab at it.
QUEUE
Wildheart – Bbn/Mnk (Desidero)
“Name” – Sor/Rgr (Browman)
“Name” - Ant/Wiz or Ant/Mag (gracefulArmageddon)
Arcane Adept – Bbn/Wiz (Trogdar)
“Spell Rider” – Mag/Cav (LoneKnave/Orelius)
Rune Mage – Alc/Mag (Elghinn)
Mechagolem Pilot – Sam/Sum (Bardess)
Warrior Poet – Rgr/Brd (Starfox)
“Focused Sniper” – Gun/Bbn (Christos)
How about a fighter/summoner that gets a pet wizard/sorceror to buff him?
Or to be more on topic, an anti-paladin/summoner that gets a pet imp that can buff and cast for him, instead of his own spellcasting and boon features?
I have my Nefarious Convoker, but its a Sum/Anp, and its little famiiar doesn't cast spells. Could be an intersting concept, sort of how OSW's Master of Havoc's (Sum/Bbn) havoc beast (eidolon) does the raging instead of the actual PC.
When we get to gracefulArmageddon's MCA we can discuss further, so keep those ideas frosty. For now, let's try to focus on the two currently on the block. :D
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#Kabuki
Kabuki Warrior looks good so far, even if the concept is a bit weird - you can be a warrior and a kabuki actor, but is there really a special class of warriors that combine these talents? Well, now there is! Or soon, at least. About the geisha ability, if it fun to know that early Kabuki was known as "whore theater" and had only female actors. Later, females were forbidden to appear on stage, but kabuki was popular enough to survive and shift to male actors.
I am against a samurai order for kabuki. That would be available to all samurai, and most samurai would find it dishonorable.
Sorry I didn't pop in right away to toss my ideas in. I am here now so I can contribute.
I do not remember if this was something I read in a history book or if it was something from a video game, but I think there was a couple of Samurai who dressed themselves up using the Kabuki style because A) it was kind of intimidating and B) because it helped others recognized them (which is important for a caste of glory seeking warriors). I tried looking it up, but I can't seem to find it. The one samurai I remember famously doing it, Maeda Keiji, has no mention of it on his Wiki.
OK, let's start with this and we can add to, remove from, or adjust it as we need to.
SWAPS
Mount = Kabuki mask
Resolve (3) = Bardic performance, satire, props (silent image), din (ghost sounds)
Weapons expertise = Performance Weapon Mastery
Mounted archer = Dazzling display
Banner = Costume training
Bonus feats = Performance feats
Greater resolve = Inspire greatness
Greater banner = Scandal
True resolve = Inspire heroics
Last stand = ???Not sure if we want to swap out Last Stand?
Real quick, so I can catch up, is the Kabuki mask and the Costume training actual abilities from a different class? I tried to look them up, but didn't see anything. Just in case maybe it isn't something on the SRD or something.
So far, that looks pretty decent and I am glad you also agreed it didn't need spells. I thought about mentioning that, but figured you guys had more experience and might think it not very interesting.
Satire and Mockery mainly, just to give him some out of combat abilities. So he could use a mocking performance somewhere to give one of the spectators a penalty that lasts for hours or days after if the target fails his save and the Kabuki continues spending mask points
Real quick, so I can catch up, is the Kabuki mask and the Costume training actual abilities from a different class? I tried to look them up, but didn't see anything. Just in case maybe it isn't something on the SRD or something.
So far, that looks pretty decent and I am glad you also agreed it didn't need spells. I thought about mentioning that, but figured you guys had more experience and might think it not very interesting.
The Kabuki Mask is based primarily on the Veiled Illusionist's veil pool ability, and Costume Training is loosely based on Costume Proficiency from the Diva bard archetype and part of the fighter's armor training that reduces armor check penalty of armor. Figured that was good since that will allow the Kabuki Warrior better than usual chances with Stealth or similar skills while wearing armor. Thought is was thematic. All of these can be found on the d20PFSRD site.
Satire and Mockery mainly, just to give him some out of combat abilities. So he could use a mocking performance somewhere to give one of the spectators a penalty that lasts for hours or days after if the target fails his save and the Kabuki continues spending mask points
So, if he wanted to he could narrow the focus to one individual instead of a mass and give those penalties for longer? Or peraps by spending points he forces a second save (whether the first succeeded or not) for one individual, and if that fails the durtion incereases to the next time increment? rounds = minute, minute = hours, etc. what does everyone else think. We could certainly utilize the mask a bit more if we want.
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I looked those up and they seem awesome and work really well.
Kabuki Mask - So, as the Kabuki Warrior grows in level, they gain access to different masks that do different things? Like maybe a Warrior pattern that gives a bonus to attack rolls or a Demon mask gets bonuses to Intimidate. Maybe one an aristocrat that gives bonuses to diplomacy or something? Or were you thinking just like the Veiled Illusionist's ability (which, btw, very cool PrC. I never really looked at any outside of the core) were the Kabuki warrior can cast illusions on himself for free?
Costume Training - Since we are agreed that the KW doesn't cast spells and the Diva's Costume Proficiency allows the Diva to cast spells in heavier armor, what were your ideas? I had this idea that maybe they could wear costumes to provide some kind of armor or dodge bonus? Although, I'm uncertain as to how useful that will be nor if it would throw off balance. Being able to wear armor indefintly, even while sleeping or appearing in courts or whatever when no one else could, not to mention not having to buy armor, could be a little eh. But also, they probably wouldn't be able to get mastercrafted and magical armors and use this ability, so...
As a side note, I really wish there were more classes that had access to ways to fight unarmored or lightly armored, like the Duelist and the Magus Kensai. I'm surprised the Samurai Sword Saint, an archetype that is focused around the iconic iaijutsu masters like Kyuzo and Kenshin (anime character, not the Warlord) did not get access to a similar ability.
Something of note, should the KW be profiecient with the Nodachi (the giant, two handed version of the Katana)? A lot of the kabuki actors are wielding them. Example
# Kabuki Warrior
Something of note, should the KW be profiecient with the Nodachi (the giant, two handed version of the Katana)? A lot of the kabuki actors are wielding them.
I vote yes! Nodachi for the great intimidation!
I looked those up and they seem awesome and work really well.
Kabuki Mask - So, as the Kabuki Warrior grows in level, they gain access to different masks that do different things? Like maybe a Warrior pattern that gives a bonus to attack rolls or a Demon mask gets bonuses to Intimidate. Maybe one an aristocrat that gives bonuses to diplomacy or something? Or were you thinking just like the Veiled Illusionist's ability (which, btw, very cool PrC. I never really looked at any outside of the core) were the Kabuki warrior can cast illusions on himself for free?
Unlike the dreadmasque, I don't see the kabuki warrior's mask being a huge part of the MCA. That said, we could have the mask be able to assume a simple persona (appearance, etc.) that also grants certain bonuses to skill checks. While looking through a bunch of Kabuki sites, I narrowed down the following popular/usual types of mask representations which I've extrapolated into the following for purposes of the MCa and build: 1) Spirit/Ghost, 2) Demon, 3) Hero, 4) Noble/Lord, 5) Commoner/Traveling Merchant, 6) Supernatural creature (I suggest Dragon), 7) Priest. I think this should be simple, and not overshadow other parts of the MCA.
The Kabuki Warrior can use his mask's disguise self ability to assume one of these seven personas. Each persona would then grant a bonus to ceratain skills or skill sets while they are in that form, as well as some other benefit, such as a bonus to attacks, or some other minor benefit to allow them to portray the persona. This would allow him to infiltrate noble courts, villages, temples, etc.
Costume Training - Since we are agreed that the KW doesn't cast spells and the Diva's Costume Proficiency allows the Diva to cast spells in heavier armor, what were your ideas? I had this idea that maybe they could wear costumes to provide some kind of armor or dodge bonus? Although, I'm uncertain as to how useful that will be nor if it would throw off balance. Being able to wear armor indefintly, even while sleeping or appearing in courts or whatever when no one else could, not to mention not having to buy armor, could be a little eh. But also, they probably wouldn't be able to get mastercrafted and magical armors and use this ability, so...
Costume Training (as written for the Kabuki Warrior) does not allow him to cast spells, it reduces the Armor Penalty (which is skill related, not chance of spells failure), which would allow a better chance of using say Stealth in Medium armor, etc.
Remember this is only replacing the Banner ability, so it can't be supper powerful, this the reason I have it only reducing the armor penalty for skill checks, and not increasing the max Dex bonus like armor training does.
Something of note, should the KW be profiecient with the Nodachi (the giant, two handed version of the Katana)? A lot of the kabuki actors are wielding them. Example
Why not, its not a big thing to be proficient with it, especially since its the Japanese equivalent of the greatsword, which a samurai is proficient with.
Last Stand seems a bit out of place to me. If I'm interpreting correctly, the Kabuki Warrior is all about the form of battle, the movement and the actions- not the life and death struggle. As to what it should be replaced with I dunno. Maybe he turns the entire battle into a performance and everyone deals non lethal? :P
OK, I've reworked the Kabuki Mask ability, and the Costume Training ability.
I reduced the Kabuki pool to 1/2 level + Charisma mod, as I felt its should be on par with the ki pool or arcane pool abilities. Thoughts? Should it stay level + Cha mod? Also, I added in Browman's suggestion of being able to extend the duration of the indicated performances (1 point = extra rounds equal to 1/2 level) Thoughts on this.
A kabuki mask grants the kabuki warrior a reserve of magical energy that can be used to alter his appearance. This kabuki pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his class level + his Charisma modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the kabuki warrior prepares rests for 8 hours. A kabuki warrior uses these points to assume specific personas, such as a commoner, nobleman, or priest, and allow him to blend into the bustling market place, assume the guise of a wander priest, or infiltrate the court of ruling lord. While the kabuki mask is worn, it grants the kabuki warrior a circumstance bonus on all Disguise skill checks equal to 1/2 his kabuki warrior level.
As a standard action, the kabuki warrior can spend 1 point from his pool to alter his appearance as per the spell disguise self. This is a glamer effect that lasts a number of hours equal to the kabuki warrior's class level. The DC to disbelieve the effect is equal to 15 + the number of points remaining in the kabuki warrior's kabuki pool.
A kabuki warrior can expend 1 point from his kabuki mask pool to assume one of the following personas, even if doing so exceeds the limitations of disguise self. Once activated, each persona lasts for a number of minutes equal to his kabuki warrior level, granting him certain bonuses while it remains in effect.
Commoner: The kabuki warrior takes on the appearance of a farmer, beggar, or some other commoner. While this persona is in effect, the kabuki warrior gains a circumstance bonus on all Handle Animal, Perception, Profession, and Ride skill checks equal to 1/2 his level. He can make checks with these skills untrained.
Craftsman: The kabuki warrior takes on the appearance of a merchant, craftsman, or artisan. While this persona is in effect, the kabuki warrior gains a circumstance bonus on all Appraise, Craft, Knowledge (engineering), and Profession skill checks equal to 1/2 his level. He can make checks with these skills untrained.
Demon: The kabuki warrior takes on the appearance of an ogre mage. While this persona is in effect, the kabuki warrior gains a circumstance bonus on all Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), and Knowledge (planes) skill checks equal to 1/2 his level. He can make checks with these skills untrained.
Dragon: The kabuki warrior takes on the appearance of a lizardman or some other humanoid draconic creature. While this persona is in effect, the kabuki warrior gains a circumstance bonus on all Bluff, intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Survival skill checks equal to 1/2 his level. He can make checks with these skills untrained.
Hero: The kabuki warrior takes on the appearance of powerful warrior of great renown. While this persona is in effect, the kabuki warrior gains a circumstance bonus on all Intimidate, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Ride, and Survival skill checks equal to 1/2 his level. He can make checks with these skills untrained.
Nobleman: The kabuki warrior takes on the appearance of an ogre mage. While this persona is in effect, the kabuki warrior gains a circumstance bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (nobility), and Sense Motive skill checks equal to 1/2 his level. He can make checks with these skills untrained.
Priest: The kabuki warrior takes on the appearance of an ascetic monk, priest, or holyman. While this persona is in effect, the kabuki warrior gains a circumstance bonus on all Heal, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), and Sense Motive skill checks equal to 1/2 his level. He can make checks with these skills untrained.
Spirit: The kabuki warrior takes on the appearance of a translucent ghost or spirit. This spirit effect otherwise functions as the ghost disguise spell. While this persona is in effect, the kabuki warrior gains a circumstance bonus on all Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Knowledge (local), and Stealth skill checks equal to 1/2 his level. He can make checks with these skills untrained.
At 3rd level, the kabuki warrior can alter his perceived audible (sound) properties when he assumes a persona. At 5th level, the kabuki warrior can also alter his perceived tactile (touch) properties, and can imitate any voice with which he is familiar. At 9th level, the kabuki warrior's disguise fools even extraordinary senses, such as scent, blindsight, or tremorsense.
Additionally, by spending 1 point from his kabuki pool, a kabuki warrior can increase the duration of his din, props, satire, or mockery performances by a number of rounds equal to 1/2 his level after the performance ceases. Any other requirement, such as range or specific conditions, must still be met for the effect to continue. If the kabuki warrior begins a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease.
A kabuki warrior can add magical abilities to his mask like any other magical item, through the use of a spellcaster and at his cost. The magic properties of a kabuki mask, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the kabuki warrior who owns it. If a kabuki mask's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork mask.
If a kabuki mask is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the kabuki warrior rests for the day. If the kabuki mask is lost or destroyed, the kabuki warrior can create another one. Doing so takes 8 hours to complete and costs 100 gp per kabuki warrior level plus the cost of the masterwork item. Kabuki masks replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous mask item. A kabuki warrior can designate an existing mask as his kabuki mask. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed mask except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a kabuki mask. This ability replaces mount.
I added in stuff on sleeing in armor and donning armor hastily.