Multiclass Archetypes VI: Even More Ultimate MCAs


Homebrew and House Rules

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Dark Archive

I don't read a lot of third party stuff. And because my table isn't very power-game-y, I don't have to read a lot of the archetypes either (because 9 times out of 10, my players are just going to use the regular class without archetype), so if my idea is already been done, then tell me to piss off. lol

Dark Archive

Side note: Not saying anything is wrong with current MCA on the block. I'm just not sure how to contribute. And I would have editted that in my post, but I can't edit my post for some damn reason!


Koujow wrote:
I don't read a lot of third party stuff. And because my table isn't very power-game-y, I don't have to read a lot of the archetypes either (because 9 times out of 10, my players are just going to use the regular class without archetype), so if my idea is already been done, then tell me to piss off. lol

P-Off! Just kidding.

I've added them into the queue, but you may want to take alook at these.

#Totem Warrior
May want to look at the Spirit Warrior.

#Yabusame
I like this. Sort of a "Legolas" class, one that focuses on archery instead of the blade. Almost a swap around of what the samurai is with a focus on blade combat. Could be fun! Maybe archery period, mounte dor unmounted, a daikyu master.

#Puppet Master
Sounds like my Clockwork Mage.


Koujow wrote:
Side note: Not saying anything is wrong with current MCA on the block. I'm just not sure how to contribute. And I would have editted that in my post, but I can't edit my post for some damn reason!

You can only edit for one hour after you have submitted your message. I know the pain, I sometimes go back days later to fix spelling errors (on other forums).


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

#WEAPON CASTER

Night Shade, is this guy using the Magus spell progression table? I assume so. And he's using his weapon as his "spellbook", allowing him to access the spells like witch sort of does?

Yes, it uses the magus spell progression and their list (to keep it easy).

Yes, spells originate and are cast thru their weapon. I was thinking of adding this:

Prepare Weapon (Alteration) <this is not a spell, but an ability of the class>
This ability will allow the Weapon Caster to prepare any one weapon (must be proficient in its use) to cast spells. This is a personal thing, so each Weapon Caster would have to this for their own weapon. This is a ritual in which the caster will meditate for two hours, with a 15-minute weapons work every hour. As you can see this requires an area where the caster can have enough room to move around in. Once the weapon is prepared the individual Weapon Caster can use it to cast spells. This weapon will not function as a spell focus for any other individual. If the weapon goes for more than 1 day per Weapon Caster level without it being used to cast spells, its ability to do so will fade.

A prepared weapon will have no enhancement bonus initially, but will receive a +1 at 5th level and an additional +1 every 5 levels (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th). At these levels (5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th the weapon caster can prepare another weapon with 1 less bonus the the one previous. The weapon caster can still use their arcane points to enhance their weapon.


Ok I also have an idea to toss into the bin.

The Cowboy

Primary class: Samurai
Secondary: Gunslinger

The idea is to have a gun-based Sword Saint Samurai. Challenge people to showdown and do a quick draw and shoot. Might involve mid-combat initiative checks.


#Champion of the Dead
Here's what I've got for gracefulArmageddon's concept. Went with Anp/Clr, as we have a Pal/Clr but no Anp/Clr, fit better anyways too. Behold!!! :P

SWAPS
Smite good = Call of the Grave
Aura of cowardice = Aura of the Grave
Fiendish boon = Undead minion, as animal companio but undead humanoid at level -3 since its undead.
Aura of despair = Death’s embrace
Aura of vengeance = Aura of the tomb
Aura of depravity = Soul of the corrupt
Unholy champion = Undying champion

CHAMPION OF THE DEAD:

Primary: Antipaladin.
Secondary: Cleric.
Alignment: Any evil.
Hit Dice: d10.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The champion of the dead selects three magus skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal antipaladin class skills. The champion of the dead gains a number of ranks at each level equal to +2 Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The champion of the dead is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, light and medium), and with shields (except tower shields).

Spellcasting: A champion of the dead casts divine spells which are drawn from the antipaladin spell list and adds all domain spells from each of his deity’s domains to his spell list. He also adds the following spells to this list at the indicated spell levels: 1st–decompose corpse, restore corpse, sculpt corpse; 2nd–animate dead (lesser), command undead, ghoul touch; 3rd–gentle repose, halt undead; 4th–enervation; 5th–ghoul army; 6th–create undead. He must choose and prepare his spells in advance, and in the same manner as an antipaladin. He also gains one domain spell slot per spell level per day that can only be used to cast his domain spell. A champion of the dead can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day according to his daily allotment, as shown on the Table: Champion of the dead. The champion of the dead gains bonus spells for a high Charisma score. A champion of the dead’s caster level is equal to his level. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces the antipaladin’s spellcasting ability.

Call of the Grave (Su): Once per day, a champion of the dead can call upon the powers of death to summon forth undead creatures to obey his command. This functions as summon monster I, except that the champion of the dead can only summon undead. Every two levels, the level of the summon monster spell increases to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level. The champion of the dead can summon the following undead creatures at the indicated level: 1st–human skeleton, human zombie; 3rd–ghoul, human juju zombie; 5th–skeleton champion, zombie lord; 7th–shadow, wight; 9th–mummy; 11th–ghost, revenant, specter; 13th–shadow (greater), vampire; 15th–graveknight; 17th–banshee, lich. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the champion of the dead’s level. A champion of the dead can use this ability once per day at 1st level, and one additional time per day for every three levels thereafter, up to seven times per day at 19th level. This ability replaces smite good.

Domain: A champion of the dead chooses one domain or an associated subdomain from among those belonging to his deity (see Domains at the end of the Cleric class entry in the Core Rulebook). A champion of the dead can select the Chaos, Death (or Undead subdomain), or Evil domain as his choice. The champion of the dead only gains the domain spells but not the powers and each spell is cast in his domain spell slot provided. He otherwise follows all other parameters pertaining to domains as described in the cleric class entry. This ability replaces channel negative energy 2d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, and 10d6.

Aura of the Grave (Su): At 3rd level, a champion of the dead radiates a chilling aura that causes all allies within 10 feet to take upon themselves some of the traits of the undead. Allies are treated as undead for the purposes of effects that heal or cause damage based on positive and negative energy while within 10 feet of the champion of the dead. This does not apply to the Turn Undead or Command Undead feats. This ability functions only while the antipaladin remains conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead. This ability replaces aura of cowardice.

Channel Negative Energy (Su): This is exactly like the antipaladin ability of the same name, except that the champion of the dead’s cleric level when channeling energy is equal to 1/2 his champion of he dead level.

Undead Minion (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a champion of the dead can animate an undead minion. This undead minion must be either a single humanoid skeleton or zombie. Once selected, the choice is set, but it may be changed whenever the champion of the dead gains a level. An undead minion does not gain bonus tricks or the devotion special ability. This undead minion otherwise functions as a druid's animal minion, but the champion of the dead’s effective druid level is equal to his champion of the dead’s level –3. A bonded undead minion has an Intelligence of at least 6.

An undead minion automatically follows the champion of the dead’s commands and does not need to be controlled by him. This minion does not count against the number of Hit Dice of undead controlled by other methods. A champion of the dead can use this ability to create a variant skeleton such as a bloody or burning skeleton, but the variant’s Hit Dice cannot exceed that of the undead minions total Hit Dice (see Table: Animal Minions).

Once per day, as a full-round action, a champion of the dead may magically call his undead minion to his side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the champion of the dead's level. The undead minion immediately appears adjacent to the champion of the dead. A champion of the dead can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every 4 levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.

At 11th level, the undead minion gains either the skeletal champion template (if a skeleton) or the zombie lord template (if a zombie).

At 15th level, a champion of the dead's undead minion gains spell resistance equal to the champion of the dead's level + 11.

Should the champion of the dead's minion is destroyed, the champion of the dead may not animate another minion for 30 days or until he gains a champion of the dead level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the champion of the dead takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls. This ability replaces fiendish boon.

Death’s Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, a champion of the dead can heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy. If the channeled negative energy targets undead, he can choose to heal hit points just like undead in the area. This ability replaces aura of despair.

Aura of the Tomb (Su): At 11th level, a champion of the dead bolsters the strength of undead creatures within 10 feet of him. All undead creatrues are infused with negative energy and gain a +1 profane bonus on all attack rolls and saving throws, as well as 1 temporary hit point per Hit Die and a +2 bonus to its turn resistance. The bonus on attack rolls and saving throws increases by +1 every four champion of the dead levels beyond 11th. The bonuses and temporary hit points are immediately dispelled if the creature moves beyond 10 feet of the champion of the dead or is within the area of a consecrate spell. This ability replaces aura of vengeance.

Soul of the Crypt (Su): At 17th level, a champion of the dead gains DR 5/bludgeoning and good. This ability replaces aura of depravity.

Undying Champion (Ex): At 20th level, a champion of the dead joins the ranks of the undead. His DR increases to 10/bludgeoning and good. His type changes to undead, and he acquires all undead traits. Although immune to disease, he can still carry and spread diseases with the antipaladin’s plague bringer ability. The undying champion no longer has a Constitution score. He uses his Charisma score for calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special abilities that rely on Constitution. This ability replaces unholy champion.

Table: Champion of the Dead
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th

1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Aura of evil, call of the grave 1/day, detect good 0+1 — — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Touch of corruption, unholy resilience 1+1 — — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Aura of the grave, cruelty, undead commander 1+1 — — — — —
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Call of the grave 2/day, channel negative energy 1+1 0+1 — — — —
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Undead companion 1+1 1+1 — — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Cruelty 2+1 1+1 — — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Call of the grave 3/day 2+1 1+1 0+1 — — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Death’s embrace 2+1 1+1 1+1 — — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Cruelty 2+1 2+1 1+1 — — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Call of the grave 4/day 3+1 2+1 1+1 0+1 — —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Aura of the tomb 3+1 2+1 1+1 1+1 — —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Cruelty 3+1 2+1 2+1 1+1 — —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Call of the grave 5/day 3+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 0+1 —
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Aura of sin 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 1+1 —
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Cruelty 4+1 3+1 2+1 2+1 1+1 —
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Call of the grave 6/day 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 0+1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Soul of the crypt 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 1+1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Cruelty 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 2+1 1+1
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Call of the grave 7/day 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 2+1
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Undying champion 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 3+1


#Weapon caster
I've done some reworking of this. What do you think Night Shade? I think we could come up with a better name, but nothing comes to mind at the moment.

SWAPS
Arcane pool = Change, allows to enchant armor too
Spellbook = Arcane weapon
Knowledge pool, Medium armor, Fighter training, Heavy armor = Bonus feats
Spell Recall, Improved spell recall, Counter strike = Armor training 1/2/3
Improved spell combat, greater spell combat, Greater spell access = Weapon training 1/2/3
True magus (20) = Arcane Weapon Mastery

WEAPON CASTER:

Weapon casters have learned to combine the power of arcane casting with the might of martial training. They use their weapons and the rhythm of their combat style to focus their magical energies and cast their spells. A weapon caster has no need for spellbooks, and therefore cannot read magic or scrolls. Unlike other casters, their weapons are required to cast their magic, and cannot do so without them.

Primary: Magus.
Secondary: Fighter.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The weapon caster selects three fighter skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal magus class skills. The weapon caster gains a number of ranks at each level equal to +2 Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The weapon caster is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor. A weapon caster can cast magus spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a weapon caster wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass weapon caster still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Spellcasting: A weapon caster may know any number of spells, but he must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour practicing combat tactics with his bonded weapon. While practicing, the weapon caster decides which spells to prepare. A weapon caster otherwise learns, prepares, and casts spells as a magus of his weapon caster level. A weapon caster gains bonus spells if he has a high Intelligence score.

Arcane Pool (Su): This is exactly like the magus ability of the same name, except that the weapon caster can use this ability to enhance his arcane weapon. Additionally, a weapon caster of 1st level can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any armor he is wearing a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 1st, the armor gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the armor, stacking with existing armor enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.

At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following armor properties: balanced, ghost touch, heavy fortification, invulnerability, light fortification, moderate fortification, spell resistance (13, 15, 17, or 19).

Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s cost. In addition, the bonuses can be consumed at the listed amount to add any of the following armor properties: energy resistance for +3 bonus or improved energy resistance for +5 bonus. These bonuses are added to any properties the armor already has, but duplicate abilities do not stack. If the armor is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties are decided when the arcane pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the magus uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the armor is worn by anyone other than the weapon caster. A weapon caster can only enhance one weapon and one suit of armor in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends. This ability changes arcane pool.

Arcane Weapon (Su): At 1st level, weapon casters form a powerful bond with a weapon. A weapon caster begins play with one weapon of his choice at no cost. This must be a weapon that he is proficient in. This weapon is not made of any special material, but is of masterwork quality. If a weapon caster attempts to cast a spell without his bonded weapon in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level.

A weapon caster can add additional magic abilities to his bonded weapon as if he has the required Item Creation Feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a magus with a bonded longsword must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the sword (see Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat). The magic properties of a bonded weapon, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the weapon caster who owns it. If a bonded weapon's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.

If a bonded weapon is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the weapon caster prepares his spells. If the bonded weapon is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per weapon caster level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Weapons replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A weapon caster can designate an existing magic weapon as his bonded weapon. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic weapon retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.

A weapon caster does not record his spells in a spellbook. Instead, he stores his spells in his bonded weapon. The weapon caster must practice special combat tactics with his bonded weapon each day to prepare his spells. Bonded weapons store all of the spells that a weapon caster knows, and a weapon caster cannot prepare a spell that is not stored by his weapon. A weapon caster’s weapon begins play storing all of the 0-level magus spells plus three 1st level spells of the weapon caster’s choice. The weapon caster also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to his Intelligence modifier to store in his weapon. At each new weapon caster level, he adds two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new weapon caster level) to his weapon. A weapon caster can also add additional spells to his weapon through a special ritual. This ritual requires the same time and cost as adding a spell to a spellbook.

A weapon caster cannot take the familiar magus arcana, and cannot have a familiar of any kind, even from another class. This ability replaces the magus spellbook.

Bonus Feats: This is exactly like the magus ability of the same name, except that the weapon caster gains a bonus feat at 2nd level and every three levels thereafter.

Armor Training (Ex): At 4th level, a weapon caster gains the fighter’s armor training ability, except that he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every six levels thereafter (10th and 16th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –3 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +3 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed. In addition, a weapon caster can also move at his normal speed while wearing light armor. This ability replaces spell recall, improved spell recall, and counterstrike.

Weapon Training (Ex): At 7th level, a weapon caster gains the fighter’s weapon training ability, except that the weapon caster can select one group of weapons, and whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls. Every six levels thereafter (13th and 19th), a weapon caster becomes further trained in another group of weapons. He gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a weapon from this group. This ability replaces improved spell combat, greater spell combat, and greater spell access.

Arcane Weapon Mastery (Su): At 20th level, the weapon caster becomes a master of spells and combat. Whenever he uses his spell combat ability, he does not need to make a concentration check to cast the spell defensively. In addition, as a swift action, whenever the weapon caster hits a target with his bonded weapon, he may expend a spell slot to deal additional damage to the target. The additional damage is equal to one die per level of the spell expended. Each extra damage die is equal to the damage die of the weapon. For example, if a weapon caster is wielding a longsword, the extra damage dice are d8s. He also gains a shield bonus to AC equal to the level of the spell expended and lasts for 2 rounds. This ability replaces true magus.

Table: Weapon Caster
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th

1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Arcane pool, arcane weapon, cantrips, 3 1 — — — — —
spell combat
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Bonus feat, spellstrike 4 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Magus arcana 4 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Armor training 1 4 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bonus feat 4 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Magus arcana 5 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Weapon training 1 5 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Bonus feat 5 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Magus arcana 5 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Armor training 2 5 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Bonus feat 5 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Magus arcana 5 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Weapon training 2 5 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Bonus feat 5 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Magus arcana 5 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Armor training 3 5 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Bonus feat 5 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Magus arcana 5 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Weapon training 3 5 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Arcane weapon mastery, bonus feat 5 5 5 5 5 5 5


Desidero wrote:

Ok I also have an idea to toss into the bin.

The Cowboy

Primary class: Samurai
Secondary: Gunslinger

The idea is to have a gun-based Sword Saint Samurai. Challenge people to showdown and do a quick draw and shoot. Might involve mid-combat initiative checks.

You are in the queue. Hate the name, though the idea is good. I'm thinkning somthing between the Magnificent Seven and the Seven Samurais. Same movie, different decades and time period.


Champion of the dead is fierce, I would love to have a go at that sort of character.


# Champion of the Dead

Death Champion? Necrotic Lord? Dread Bastion? I don't have a problem with Champion of the Dead at all, just trying on other names, and names that more abide by our Secondary first/Primary second protocol. As you know I'm usually the one that skirts that...

* Is the Aura of the Tomb turn resistance supposed to be channel resistance?

Apart from that the CotD is very nice Elghinn. A welcome addition to the fold that includes Marc Radle's White Necromancer (Kobold Press), the Bonewitch we did for Wayfinder 7 and the Ossuarite Druid we worked on for my Toothless Maw thread. :)


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

# Champion of the Dead

Death Champion? Necrotic Lord? Dread Bastion? I don't have a problem with Champion of the Dead at all, just trying on other names, and names that more abide by our Secondary first/Primary second protocol. As you know I'm usually the one that skirts that...

* Is the Aura of the Tomb turn resistance supposed to be channel resistance?

Apart from that the CotD is very nice Elghinn. A welcome addition to the fold that includes Marc Radle's White Necromancer (Kobold Press), the Bonewitch we did for Wayfinder 7 and the Ossuarite Druid we worked on for my Toothless Maw thread. :)

Thanatotic Scion?


Nice one t-wolf. How about Dread Thanatosist? ;)


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ObsessiveCompulsiveWolf wrote:
Nice one t-wolf. How about Dread Thanatosist? ;)

Ooh what a glorious conglomeration of cooperation we just performed, what ho! (it kinda feels good to dust off my first avatar)


#Essence Hunter
Very nice, the stored blood and new ability to burrow from animals fills this out well. Great job!

#Champion of the Dead
If I answer Elghinn's original challenge and propose things from scratch, I'd build this off channel energy and give it the ability to animate dead with channeled energy. This would be basic skeletons and zombies with hit points = energy channeled and a scaling attack bonus equal to the number of dice of energy channeled. Cheap and disposable minions. Obviously, this would require cleric-level channeled energy, and with full BAB, there is not much design space left, but it still needs basic fighting abilities, similar to a fighter without bonus feats but perhaps more flavorful than that. Maybe the holy vindicator can be an inspiration. If the champion of the dead goes in another direction, I might try and write something like this up myself as a separate MCA - I quite like the idea.

#Weapon caster
I was somewhat blindsided by this, as my next proposal is planned to be the spellsword, also a fighter/magus. But the execution is quite different - mine is a full BAB utility caster, this is a scrappier magus.

the weapon caster can stack weapon training with arcane pool abilities to weapons. This has great synergies, allowing a lot of focus on a single ability. But it still hits worse than a fighter, even if it might have a slight edge in damage. Balanced by being even more MAD than a fighter. Should be ok.

The ability to enhance armor with arcane pool balances the loss of medium/heavy armor nicely, and also gives the MCA something to spend arcane pool on, when so many of its usual power sinks are replaced. So far so good. Armor training seems a bit redundant for an MCA that has only light armor - there is not much armor penalty to mitigate. I feel there are two paths to take with regards to armor: either [armor training + medium/heavy armor] or [light armor + enhancement from arcane pool].


Starfox wrote:


#Weapon caster
I was somewhat blindsided by this, as my next proposal is planned to be the spellsword, also a fighter/magus. But the execution is quite different - mine is a full BAB utility caster, this is a scrappier magus.

Tht's why yours is a Ftr/Mag, and Night Shade's is a Mag/Ftr. Two completely different build approaches, so they should be dissimilar from each other.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Starfox wrote:


#Weapon caster
Tht's why yours is a Ftr/Mag, and Night Shade's is a Mag/Ftr. Two completely different build approaches, so they should be dissimilar from each other.

The order of things matters!

# Champion of the Dead

Better comment on this as it actually is too, not just to my own idea of what it could be. Balance and concept seems good, tough overall it feels closer to summoner than to either cleric or antipaladin. Might benefit from using the summoner spell list, but then again that might be just too good (Haste at lvl 2).

Call of the grave: Is the Summoner Summon Monster ability? It might deserve to take just a standard action to use and have the 1 minute/level duration of that ability? It is supernatural, so the undead summoned are not dispellable. Is this intended? The summoner power is spell-like.

Aura of the Dead is cool and different, but with a 10 ft. radius it is smaller than channel energy, creating a zone from 10 ft. to 30 ft. where negative energy channeling still deals damage. Might want to change one of these abilities so the radii match.

Channel Energy: A smaller radius (see aura of the dead) might allow for a stronger channeling power - 1 dice per 4levels is not very impressive.

Deaths embrace is redundant with Call of the Grave; since you are your own ally, you already have this ability.


Starfox wrote:


#Weapon caster
the weapon caster can stack weapon training with arcane pool abilities to weapons. This has great synergies, allowing a lot of focus on a single ability. But it still hits worse than a fighter, even if it might have a slight edge in damage. Balanced by being even more MAD than a fighter. Should be ok.

The ability to enhance armor with arcane pool balances the loss of medium/heavy armor nicely, and also gives the MCA something to spend arcane pool on, when so many of its usual power sinks are replaced. So far so good. Armor training seems a bit redundant for an MCA that has only light armor - there is not much armor penalty to mitigate. I feel there are two paths to take with regards to armor: either [armor training + medium/heavy armor] or [light armor + enhancement from arcane pool].

I agree with his assessment in that having armor training, but not the ability to cast while wearing med and heavy armor, doesn't flow. The idea of having the arcane pool spread to the armor is actually pretty nice :-)

Also for a name, how about Eldritch Warrior.


Starfox wrote:


# Champion of the Dead

Better comment on this as it actually is too, not just to my own idea of what it could be. Balance and concept seems good, tough overall it feels closer to summoner than to either cleric or antipaladin. Might benefit from using the summoner spell list, but then again that might be just too good (Haste at lvl 2).

The antipaladin list, plus the additional spells I've listed, and the spells from all his god's domains give him an expended list (up to 6th level spells) but limits the number and breadth of what he can do compared to giving his access to another class's spell lsit. We did sort of thing for the Divine Emissary (Pal/Clr) who is focused on smiting and destroying evil.

Starfox wrote:
Call of the grave: Is the Summoner Summon Monster ability? It might deserve to take just a standard action to use and have the 1 minute/level duration of that ability? It is supernatural, so the undead summoned are not dispellable. Is this intended? The summoner power is spell-like.

I suppose its similar to the summoner's ability, but it's not supposed to last minutes per elvel, only rounds, like the normal spell. It's meant to be a temp boost of minions during combat, as he is a commander of the undeead. As his undead minion is permanent, the lower duraiton of the ability balances things out. And yes, it should be a Spell-like ability not supernatural.

Starfox wrote:
Aura of the Dead is cool and different, but with a 10 ft. radius it is smaller than channel energy, creating a zone from 10 ft. to 30 ft. where negative energy channeling still deals damage. Might want to change one of these abilities so the radii match.

Antpaladin (like paladin) auras only extend 10 feet. I've also tweak Aura of the Grave.

Aura of the Grave (Su): At 3rd level, a champion of the dead radiates a chilling aura that causes all allies within 10 feet to take upon themselves some of the traits of the undead. Allies are treated as undead for the purposes of effects that heal or cause damage based on positive and negative energy while within 10 feet of the champion of the dead. This does not apply to the Turn Undead or Command Undead feats. If the channeled positive or negative energy targets the champion of the dead, he may choose whether he is treated as undead or a living creature at the time of the energy is channeled. This ability functions only while the antipaladin remains conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead. This ability replaces aura of cowardice.

Starfox wrote:
Channel Energy: A smaller radius (see aura of the dead) might allow for a stronger channeling power - 1 dice per 4levels is not very impressive.

It's all part of the swaps. May not be very impressive, but healing or harming up to 5d6 is better than nothing. Plus, with the change I made to Aura of the Grave and replacing Death's Embrace, it won't really make much difference.

Starfox wrote:
Deaths embrace is redundant with Call of the Grave; since you are your own ally, you already have this ability.

Replaced Death's Embrace with Aura of the Dead. Takes care of the equivalent cleric level issue he has when channeling negative energy to control undead. Helps to really make him a undead general.

Aura of the Dead (Su): At 8th level, a champion of the grave radiates a powerful aura that causes all undead within 10 feet to make a Will save or be controlled as the Command Undead feat. The save DC is equal 10 + 1/2 the champion of the dead’s level + the champion of the dead’s Charisma. When using this ability, the champion of the dead’s cleric level is equal to his level. If the champion of the dead has the Command Undead feat, he treats his cleric level as his level when channeling negative energy for the purpose of commanding undead creatures. His cleric level is equal to 1/2 his champion of the dead level when channeling negative energy to heal undead or harm living creatures, as normal. This ability replaces aura of despair.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

# Champion of the Dead

Death Champion? Necrotic Lord? Dread Bastion? I don't have a problem with Champion of the Dead at all, just trying on other names, and names that more abide by our Secondary first/Primary second protocol. As you know I'm usually the one that skirts that...

* Is the Aura of the Tomb turn resistance supposed to be channel resistance?

Apart from that the CotD is very nice Elghinn. A welcome addition to the fold that includes Marc Radle's White Necromancer (Kobold Press), the Bonewitch we did for Wayfinder 7 and the Ossuarite Druid we worked on for my Toothless Maw thread. :)

Bumping my question El...


Night_Shade wrote:

I agree with his assessment in that having armor training, but not the ability to cast while wearing med and heavy armor, doesn't flow. The idea of having the arcane pool spread to the armor is actually pretty nice :-)

Also for a name, how about Eldritch Warrior.

Made a slight change to make Armor Training more useful. I removed the swap out of Medium armor for the bonus feat at 2nd level, and re added in Medium Armor at 7th level. So now, he gets Medium Armor at 7th like a normal Magus, but loses the bonus feat at 2nd. Still no heavy armor at 13th.

Not sure about Eldritch Warrior. Weapon Caster at least gives the idea that this one uses its weapon to cast his spells. Let's see if we can come up with something else.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

# Champion of the Dead

Death Champion? Necrotic Lord? Dread Bastion? I don't have a problem with Champion of the Dead at all, just trying on other names, and names that more abide by our Secondary first/Primary second protocol. As you know I'm usually the one that skirts that...

* Is the Aura of the Tomb turn resistance supposed to be channel resistance?

Apart from that the CotD is very nice Elghinn. A welcome addition to the fold that includes Marc Radle's White Necromancer (Kobold Press), the Bonewitch we did for Wayfinder 7 and the Ossuarite Druid we worked on for my Toothless Maw thread. :)

Bumping my question El...

Yup! This ability is the Bolster ability from the Undead arcane subschool, and it says turn resistance, must be their typo then. :D Changed to channel.

Also, I'm open to name changes. I had thought of calling him the Death Knight, but you can guess the issues with that. What about Dread Champion? Anyone else?


Just discovered the wiki, some really nice archetypes there. Really like the Mysterious Sage. Not sure how playable he would be without a high point buy, but I love the kung-fu wizard feel. Some cool stuff.


Welcome Robert Carter, glad you like what we've done.


What about eldritch blade as a name?


Thanks for putting the Knight of Grace on the wiki. Its related orders still aren't there though, and neither are some of my last archetypes (the Occult Philologist, Wilderness Knight, and Chosen Apostle). ^^


@Browman
Eldritch Blade would work. Or Mage Blade?

@Bardess
Missed the orders. They're up now! Haven't put up the OP, WK or CA yet. Thanks for the reminder.

EDIT: Hey Bardess, did you ever create those new spells you mention in the Wilderness Knight's Wild Shape section? Or are those Pathfinder spells?


@Browman - I used to call the prototype I made a sword sorcerer :-) I like Eldritch Blade.


Then Eldritch Blade it is. And Wilderness Knight is up Bardess.


Thank you. Yes- the Agathion Appearance spell chain is mine. The Angelic Aspect chain (from which mine is derived) is from Champions of Purity.
EDIT: You forgot to mention the Lion Domain in the Emblem Domain section. Sorry if I'm a pain in the neck. ;)


Bardess wrote:

Thank you. Yes- the Agathion Appearance spell chain is mine. The Angelic Aspect chain (from which mine is derived) is from Champions of Purity.

EDIT: You forgot to mention the Lion Domain in the Emblem Domain section. Sorry if I'm a pain in the neck. ;)

Fixed the Lion Domain. Thanks for linking the spells, I'll get those up when I can.


Occult Philologist is up, and the new Mysteries will be up shortly.

Edit: They're up, so is Chosen Apostle.


If there is nothing further on the Champion of the Dead or the Eldritch Blade (formerly Weapon Caster) we'll move on. I'll give further comments until tomorrow, then we'll start on the next MCAs.

@Everyone: Also, now that we've cut through a good number of the queue again, should we go back to our original formula of 1 new MCA and 1 review of a wiki MCA? Or shall we continue on wiht 2 new MCAs for a while?

Once the CotD and EB are officially complete, here's the next MCAs on the block.

Queue Update
“Spell Rider” – Mag/Cav (LoneKnave/Orelius)
Arcane Adept – Bbn/Wiz (Trogdar)
Wildheart – Bbn/Mnk (Desidero)
Bloodfused Hematologist – Alc/Sor (Elghinn)
Mechagolem Pilot – Sam/Sum (Bardess)
Warrior Poet – Rgr/Brd (Starfox)
“Focused Sniper” – Gun/Bbn (Christos)

EDIT: Adamant Veteran is up on the wiki.


Yay! Its almost my turn XD


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

Occult Philologist is up, and the new Mysteries will be up shortly.

Edit: They're up, so is Chosen Apostle.

Thanks for everything El. I still can't find Chosen Apostle in the primary class list, though...


Oops, I think I forgot to link it to the Primary and Alphabetized Lists. I'll fix that.


Essence Drinker is up.


Posting this again.

@Everyone: Now that we've cut through a good number of the queue again, should we go back to our original formula of 1 new MCA and 1 review of an older wiki MCA? Or shall we continue on with 2 new MCAs for a while?


I think we should do 2 new MCAs for a little bit longer, then transition back to 1 and 1.


Sure! Then the next two new MCAs on the block are

“Spell Rider” – Mag/Cav (LoneKnave/Orelius)
Arcane Adept – Bbn/Wiz (Trogdar)

So post these up when you get the chance. I know Orelius is working on your concept LongKnave, so you, like us, will need to wait and see what he's got when he's posted it. :D

Post away!


Agree with Browman, lets work on the queue for a bit.

BTW, anyone know if Pathfinder has something on a planar cohort? Found it as a class ability of the Low Templar, but the only reference I could find was to a 3.5 prestige class called the Thaumaturgist.

And sorry for the threadjack, please make any answers short.


Alrighty,

The basic idea behind the arcane adept is one that involves the pursuit of combat capability through the medium of magic rather than the the other way around. I'll start my write up for it after I post this, but I'll throw up the basic swaps now.

BaB 3/4
HD D8
saves reflex/will
skills 4+int
base attack and hit die changes for hybrid casting

Swaps
Rage - Arcane combat
Rage powers - combat exploits
Armor proficiencies - Mage Armor specialist

Arcane combat(su): Arcane combat will work off of a resource like rage, but instead of giving strength constitution and willpower bonuses at the expense of some armor, the combat form will grant an insight bonus to attack equal to the Arcane adepts intelligence modifier as long as it is maintained. This is basically the same as the magus pool power.

Combat exploits(su): Combat exploits are similar to rage powers in that they effect the adepts abilities while maintaining arcane combat. Some of these abilities will simply modify the baseline effect of arcane combat like rage powers, while others will be fueled by consuming spells to achieve an effect for a given time as long as arcane combat is active.

Mage armor specialist(su): The name is a work in progress, but the basic idea is that this hybrid class does not have access to armor proficiencies like other hybrid casters and never gains access to the ability to cast in armor. Instead, the class can cast mage armor spontaneously and gains additional armor class from the spell equal to the spell level of the spell sacrificed. For example, an arcane adept might sacrifice a third level spell and gain an armor class of 4+3= 7.
This will effectively give the arcane adept touch armor that is slightly worse that a +5 breastplate once the character has access to sixth level spells.


Example exploits

Passive exploit: Channeled fortitude(su): while maintaining arcane combat, the arcane adept gains an insight bonus to fortitude saves equal to his/her intelligence modifier. In addition the adept gains a number of temporary hit points equal to his/her hit die.

Active exploit: Energy blade(su): As a swift action, the arcane adept may unravel one of their prepared spells to add energy damage to their weapon attacks. Upon unraveling the spell, the adept chooses an energy type(cold, fire, or electricity) and adds a number of d6 of that energy type their physical attacks equal to the spells level for rounds equal to their intelligence modifier. In addition, at class level eleven the adept may choose to forgo his/her normal attacks to attack once as a standard action and gain a rider effect based on the energy type originally chosen. (DC=10+spell level of the original spell+ int modifier)

cold effects might include entanglement or a condition. fire effects might add the adepts int modifier as ongoing damage each round up to the adepts intelligence modifier unless the fire is put out. Electricity damage might leap to every target within 15 feet, reflex for half.

That is the basics of the idea, thoughts?


Active exploits will also require a swift action to unravel the base spell universally. I also think that the spell list would be best if it came from the bard and pulled out some of the enchantment and healing related stuff and put in the abjuration school. The reasoning behind this is that I don't want it to be an evoker the way the magus is. I want the martial aspect of the character to issue from combat exploits rather than the spell list. I also formulated the idea from the arcanist originally and thought that it would make sense for their spell list to have a focus on countering magic.


I like the concept. Almost sounds like this one might work better as a Barbarian/Arcanist combo, but unfortunately we aren't working on ACG combos yet. I think the exploits and acane reservoir would lend itself well to your concept.

I like the idea of no armor, and using an incremental mage armor that improves dependant upon the spell sacrificed. Essentially it makes him a quick attack combatant, able to give himself up to full plat style protection without any armor. One thing we need to make sure of that this effect stacks with bracer's of armor, as this guy apparently doesn't wear any armor at all. So we need to make sure we allow some sort of way of keeping up with some of these other armored casters.

I would hope that you aren't creating all the exploits from scratch, and are using rage powers as "exploits" - plus some unique "exploits" specific to the MCA. There's no reason to redesign the wheel if we don't need to.

FYI Blight Master is on the wiki.


Starfox wrote:

Agree with Browman, lets work on the queue for a bit.

BTW, anyone know if Pathfinder has something on a planar cohort? Found it as a class ability of the Low Templar, but the only reference I could find was to a 3.5 prestige class called the Thaumaturgist.

And sorry for the threadjack, please make any answers short.

The nearest thing is the antipaladin's Demon servant. I myself used it as a guideline for some archetypes.


Bardess wrote:
Starfox wrote:

Agree with Browman, lets work on the queue for a bit.

BTW, anyone know if Pathfinder has something on a planar cohort? Found it as a class ability of the Low Templar, but the only reference I could find was to a 3.5 prestige class called the Thaumaturgist.

And sorry for the threadjack, please make any answers short.

The nearest thing is the antipaladin's Demon servant. I myself used it as a guideline for some archetypes.

stonelord?


Starfox wrote:
[snip] planar cohort? Found it as a class ability of the Low Templar.
Bardess wrote:
The nearest thing is the antipaladin's Demon servant. I myself used it as a guideline for some archetypes.
christos gurd wrote:
stonelord?

Thx, looked them up.


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:

I like the concept. Almost sounds like this one might work better as a Barbarian/Arcanist combo, but unfortunately we aren't working on ACG combos yet. I think the exploits and acane reservoir would lend itself well to your concept.

I like the idea of no armor, and using an incremental mage armor that improves dependant upon the spell sacrificed. Essentially it makes him a quick attack combatant, able to give himself up to full plat style protection without any armor. One thing we need to make sure of that this effect stacks with bracer's of armor, as this guy apparently doesn't wear any armor at all. So we need to make sure we allow some sort of way of keeping up with some of these other armored casters.

I would hope that you aren't creating all the exploits from scratch, and are using rage powers as "exploits" - plus some unique "exploits" specific to the MCA. There's no reason to redesign the wheel if we don't need to.

FYI Blight Master is on the wiki.

I figured that the armor from the enhanced mage armor would be sufficient. Should the class get a level based dodge bonus to shore it up further? Ideally I would prefer keeping it within the realm of his magic if possible though. If the mage armor proves to be too little we could also change the way the bonus scales from the spell sacrificed.

I would certainly use rage powers that are thematically and mechanically appropriate, I think we just need to be careful what we okay.

Heres another arcane exploit idea

Spectral weapon(su): As a swift action, the adept consumes a spell to create a series of copies of his weapon. These spectral copies carry all of the weapons enhancement bonuses and weapon properties. The adept adds his/her intelligence modifier to damage instead of strength for these ranged attacks. The adept may hurl these weapons (short range 25+5 feet per 2 cl) at a designated foe as an attack action. These spectral weapons last for a number of rounds equal to the spell level sacrificed.

wording is a bit rough, but I think you get the idea.


1000!

@Trogdar

Spells: Definitely need a unique spell list, whether its a revamped Bard list or 3 specifics schools.

How are these as the initial abilities? Both are based off rage and rage powers.

Primary: Barbarian.
Secondary: Wizard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The arcane adept selects three wizard skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal barbarian class skills. The arcane adept gains a number of ranks at each level equal to +4 Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The arcane adept is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. An arcane adept is not proficient with any types of armor or shields (including tower shields).

Stratagem (Su): An arcane adept can call upon her combat training and tactical acumen, granting her additional combat prowess. Starting at 1st level, an arcane adept can use stratagem for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + her Intelligence modifier. At each level after 1st, she can use stratagem for 2 additional rounds. Temporary increases to Intelligence, such as those gained from spells like fox’s cunning do not increase the total number of rounds that an arcane adept can use stratagem per day. An arcane adept can use stratagem as a free action.
The total number of rounds of stratagem per day is renewed after resting for 8 hours, although these hours do not need to be consecutive.

While using stratagem, an arcane adept gains a +4 insight bonus to Intelligence and Wisdom, as well as an insight bonus to her attack rolls equal to her Intelligence modifier. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Fortitude saves. The increase to Intelligence grants the arcane adept 2 additional skill points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the stratagem ends. While using stratagem, an arcane adept cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Strength-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires physical exertion.
An arcane adept can end her stratagem as a free action and is staggered after her stratagem has ended for a number of rounds equal to the number of rounds spent in the stratagem. An arcane adept cannot enter a new stratagem while stratagem but can otherwise enter stratagem multiple times during a single encounter or combat. If an arcane adept falls unconscious, her stratagem immediately ends. This ability replaces rage.

Combat Exploits (Ex): As an arcane adept gains levels, she learns to use her stratagem in new ways. Starting at 2nd level, an arcane adept gains a combat exploit. She gains another combat exploit for every two levels of arcane adept attained after 2nd level. An arcane adept gains the benefits of combat exploits only while using stratagem, and some of these exploits require the arcane adept to take an action first. Unless otherwise noted, an arcane adept cannot select an individual combat exploit more than once.

Any arcane adept who meets the exploit’s prerequisites can select and use combat exploits. An arcane adept can also select any rage power whose prerequisites she meets as a combat exploit. Totem rage powers grant powers related to a theme. An arcane adept cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers; for example, an arcane adept who selects a beast totem rage power cannot later choose to gain any of the dragon totem rage powers (any rage power with “dragon totem” in its title).

An arcane adept may only choose from the following rage powers:(insert specific rage powers)

Now for the Mage Armor ability, I figure we can either go with a +4 base and increase up to +10, or have a +2 basse, incresing to +8, but also incorporating the MCAs Int modifier, making it more dependant upon that stat.

Force Armor (Sp): At 1st level, an arcane adept can surround himself in a tangible field of force. This ability is similar to the mage armor spell, granting a +4 armor bonus to AC, but only lasts 10 minutes per arcane adept level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. As the arcane adept increases in level, the power of her mage armor increases. At 4th level, the armor bonus granted by her mage armor ability increases by +1, plus an additional +1 every three levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +10 at 20th level. This ability does not stack with the mage armor spell or other armor bonus. It stacks with all other bonuses to Armor Class as normal.

OR

Force Armor (Sp): At 1st level, an arcane adept can surround himself in a tangible field of force. This ability is similar to the mage armor spell, but only grants a bonus to her AC equal to 2 + her Intelligence modifier and lasts 10 minutes per arcane adept level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. As the arcane adept increases in level, the power of her mage armor increases. At 4th level, the armor bonus granted by her mage armor ability increases by +1, plus an additional +1 every three levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +8 (plus Intelligence modifier) at 20th level. This ability does not stack with the mage armor spell or any other armor bonuses, but it does stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class as normal.

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