Magic Mart and Why.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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LazarX wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Anduril and Glamdring possibly? Both famous named swords, thousands of years old.

Of course, it says something about the rarity and treatment of magical items in Middle Earth that Aragorn and his ancestors had apparently been carrying around the broken pieces of Narsil for generations. :)
Actually he wasn't. After Narsil was sundered, and Isildur slain, the kingdom that he ruled eventually fell. At that point, Elrond had kept the pieces of Narsil in trust, for the time when prophecy would mandate that the sword be reforged. Aragorn did not carry single piece of of what D20 would call magic until late in the trilogy. when he was given the reforged and renamed sword. He did keep a keepsake gifted to him by Eowyn, but there wasn't any game affecting magic within it.
It's unclear exactly what happened to Narsil over the centuries. Strider was carrying the shards of Narsil when Frodo met him in Bree
Quote:
"But I am Aragorn, and those verses go with that name." He drew out his sword, and they saw that the blade was indeed broken a foot below the hilt.

It's possible that he only had it on that trip for some unstated reason, but I don't think it's ever made clear.

Anduril was reforged in Rivendell and Aragorn carried it when the Company left in the beginning of Book II (Second half of Fellowship.)


wraithstrike wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:

Aragorn and Gandalf, as well as King Arthur, were all carrying Artifacts in Pathfinder terms. Also most of Tolkien's characters weren't adventurers. Gandalf, Aragorn, Thorin, and perhaps Boromir were what could be considered adventurers, the rest were just normal people that volunteered to go along.

Also, look at what they actually had. In the LoTR, the hobbits were all carrying magic sword/daggers, had magic cloaks, and other items. Aragorn, Gandalf, and Frodo were all carrying artifacts. Boromir was carrying a major item.

But each character was not draped in magic items, which is what I think his main point was. Other than the ring, and maybe the staff of Gandalf, what would have been an artifact in PF terms?

edit:I am asking about the lords of the ring characters.

No they weren't draped in magic items, but Middle Earth is a much different place than Golorion or other FRPG worlds. There are not so many "monsters" running around. Nor are the characters being attacked by the sort of save or die sort of things. Nearly everything, if not everything, that is fought is an intelligent being.

For the artifacts, Gandalf's ring, sword and possibly staff and cloak. Aragorn's sword, Frodo's ring (Sting would become legendary but isn't really an artifact), Boromir's horn may or may not be. The horn was certainly a powerful magic item though.

They were all wearing magical Elven cloaks, carrying magical Elven food, and rope. By the end, they had acquired other powerful magical items.

Well if they were not covered in magic items, which was the other poster's point it is not the same.

And what power did Aragaon's sword possess that made it an artifact in PF terms? The same question applies to Gandalf's items.

If you want to say they had a magic item or two sure, but it was not on the level of Pathfinder, and certainly most of them do not count as artifacts.

Narya is certainly an artifact. One of the three elven Rings of Power. If it's not, the One Ring isn't either and that's one of the archtypes of artifacts.

As is usual for Tolkien, its powers are more subtle than PF/D&D items, but probably just as strong. It's also never clear exactly what is coming from Gandalf himself and what from Narya.
Cirdan wrote:
Take this ring, master, for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.

As for the swords, both were forged in the First Age, which may not make them artifacts, but definitely magical. No mundane metal is going to last 5000 years. Especially Glamdring, which spent most of that time lost. Magic, or elven or dwarven craftmanship, which to Tolkien were essentially the same thing. That's part of what they represent: Not the casting of spells, but art and skill raised to the level of magic.

Liberty's Edge

I use a combination of brokering and licenses in my campaigns. I suprised one player when in a Lawful Neutral city run by necromancers and with a mojority of undead for soldiers and guards, that he would need a high level license to ow or have created an undead bane weapon. So there are plot hooks if needed, or these requirements can be by quest rewards if the focus of the adventure is elsewhere.


Claxon wrote:

Hmmm...the big six I believe is basically:

1)Magic Weapon / Amulet of Mighty Fists
2)Magic Armor / Magic Shield / Bracers of Armor
3) Stat enhancement item
4) Ring of Protection
5) Amulet of Nautral Armor
6) Cloak of Resistance

When I instituted my own variant, I simply fluffed the bonuses as skill and/or D&D's strange physics. Here's what I did:

Level 1, and each 4 levels thereafter: You gain a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage.
Level 2, and each 4 levels thereafter: You gain a +1 enhancement bonus to AC. If you wear armor, it gets the bonus instead. If you use a shield, it also gets the bonus.
Level 3, and each 4 levels thereafter: You gain a +1 enhancement bonus to saving throws.
Level 4, and each 4 levels thereafter: You gain a +1 deflection bonus to AC.
Level 5, and each 4 levels thereafter: You gain a +1 natural bonus to AC. If you already have a natural bonus, you gain an enhancement bonus to the natural bonus.
Level 5, and each 4 levels thereafter: You gain a +2 enhancement bonus to an ability of your choice. (I may have granted stat enhancements at even more levels, with the caveat that you can only stack them per 4 levels.)

The last one allows PCs to potentially get a +10 enhancement bonus to one stat at 20th level, which I'm fine with because I banned wish-type bonuses. (Just don't like 'em for unrelated reasons.) I also allowed +10 stat enhancement items.

One thing to keep in mind is that damage reduction of the X/magic variety becomes even more useless under this house rule. But DR is ill-executed anyway. A simple solution is to boost the DR value to 5 times (CR / 4), and to rule that each +1 enhancement bonus bypasses 5 points of DR. This has the added benefit of making DR less binary.

Additionally, as Aelryth mentioned, you'll want to reduce the loot you give your players. You could figure out the exact value of the Big Six items they no longer need, and reduce loot accordingly, but I don't think it's worth the arithmetic. WBL is kinda arbitrary anyway, so don't worry about it.

Lastly, characters who would normally wear bracers of armor get a bit of a nerf...but what of it? Wizards don't need the 3 extra points of AC at 20th level, and you can throw the monk a bone like full BAB to make up for the slight decrease in AC. And for, ya know, their general suckitude.

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MM.

Shield of Faith, hours long, +1/3 levels.

barkskin, +2, +1/3 levels after 3rd.

You're routinely expected to have +4/5's in an armor item and resistance item by 12th, they are cheap. It's the weapons which are expensive.

You'll probably have +10-12 of enhancement bonuses by 12th, not +6.

You'll have the big 6 largely maxed by 15th, with the exception of a Primary weapon, because they cost so bloody much. Inherent bonuses are just money sinks at highest levels.

Just saying you're giving stuff out a bit slow. But if it worked for your people, more power to them.

==Aelryinth

Liberty's Edge

My own perception of Golarion is that of a fairly high-magic society. As a result, I have no problem with shops that sell magic items in larger towns. I would expect temples of Nethys and/or Abadar to probably sponsor them, given their respective love of magic/profit.

I understand the wish to make magic items seem more "special," but, as has been pointed out several times, that ends up playing with some of the presumptions that come cooked into the game. You can adjust those presumptions to suit your own vision of fantasy role-play; however, as a working GM, anything that adds hours to my game prep is unlikely to take place.

I also like the idea of the "broker" that would allow PCs to acquire items that may be beyond the purchase limit of their locale, but GMs who want their PCs to be able to equip themselves will need to pre-load stretches of downtime for crafting and buying items. That time gets more dear as the party goes up in level, which is ironic, considering that the time needed probably also goes up (definitely, in the case of crafting).


wraithstrike wrote:

This is not a thread to defend magic mart as whole. I have noticed that it is frowned upon, and I understand why. I also wanted to know if there was a behind the scenes reason as to why others allowed it. I will go first.

One of my first GM's used to make us use gather information to find an item, if it was not a scroll, wand, or anything he considered to be cheap. I do like the idea, since I doubt such stores would exist. However I also feel like any players I had would just get the most diplomatic party member to find the item for them. It would also force me to come up with rules to determine when a magic item is found. Well I could just make it up as I went along, but I just prefer concrete rulings. Another thing is that I don't want to spend game time shopping, if I can help it. That is something that can be handled by email as an example. So in order to avoid making up new rules, and to save the time in games I just assume items under a certain value are in city X.

I roll on the random chart for anything else. <-----I used to just roll an arbitrary success chance.

I share your opinion, pretty much (the "designated magic item buyer" being a pet peeve of mine, no matter how logical it was).

.
When we were kids and could play ten or twelve hours at a time then it was fine to spend an hour or two negotiating to seek out wealthy people and negotiate trading rare, magical items. Nowadays we get three hours a week if we're lucky - haggling just isnt as much fun as fighting/exploring/puzzling.

Nothing has changed from a story perspective, but the re-equipping happens 'off camera'.


Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Peet wrote:
Magic items have caster levels, but it's a shame that they don't have Item Levels any more (as they did in 3.5). In 3.5 you could say it's easy for a character to get an item of equal or lower level but make it difficult for items that are a higher level.

I believe you're thinking of 4e, not 3.5.

And yes, item levels are very handy!

The magic item compendium used levels.


Vod Canockers wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:


Well if they were not covered in magic items, which was the other poster's point it is not the same.

And what power did Aragaon's sword possess that made it an artifact in PF terms? The same question applies to Gandalf's items.

If you want to say they had a magic item or two sure, but it was not on the level of Pathfinder, and certainly most of them do not count as artifacts.

The Licensed Iron Crown MERP game, translated to D20, puts Gandalf's sword as a +6, Holy, Orc slaying sword that detects Orcs up to 1000 feet away. Aragorn's sword was +10 Holy, Flaming (either hot and Orc slaying or cold and Undead slaying). Sting on the other hand was a +3 or 4 dagger that glowed in the presence of orcs.

Nothing in the books or movies depicts that being a +10 weapon. Them having a license does not mean that is what it really translate into.


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wraithstrike wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:


Well if they were not covered in magic items, which was the other poster's point it is not the same.

And what power did Aragaon's sword possess that made it an artifact in PF terms? The same question applies to Gandalf's items.

If you want to say they had a magic item or two sure, but it was not on the level of Pathfinder, and certainly most of them do not count as artifacts.

The Licensed Iron Crown MERP game, translated to D20, puts Gandalf's sword as a +6, Holy, Orc slaying sword that detects Orcs up to 1000 feet away. Aragorn's sword was +10 Holy, Flaming (either hot and Orc slaying or cold and Undead slaying). Sting on the other hand was a +3 or 4 dagger that glowed in the presence of orcs.
Nothing in the books or movies depicts that being a +10 weapon. Them having a license does not mean that is what it really translate into.

And the One Ring is just an intelligent Ring of Invisibility for example. It's power is hardly Artifact level. The main reason its important is because someone is using it as a phylactery.


Aelryinth wrote:

MM.

Shield of Faith, hours long, +1/3 levels.

barkskin, +2, +1/3 levels after 3rd.

You're routinely expected to have +4/5's in an armor item and resistance item by 12th, they are cheap. It's the weapons which are expensive.

You'll probably have +10-12 of enhancement bonuses by 12th, not +6.

You'll have the big 6 largely maxed by 15th, with the exception of a Primary weapon, because they cost so bloody much. Inherent bonuses are just money sinks at highest levels.

Just saying you're giving stuff out a bit slow. But if it worked for your people, more power to them.

==Aelryinth

It's not clear exactly what bonuses the game expects PCs to have at which levels because the devs, in their infinite wisdom*, decided to omit such tidbits from the game guidelines. I decided to base my variant on dividing the maximum enhancement bonuses (+5) neatly between the 20 levels. Maybe I'm just compulsive, but if I based my variant on all the +1/3 level spells, I'd feel compelled to ignore the +5 caps. Which wouldn't be such a huge tragedy, I suppose, but +5 is a nice round number.

I didn't base my variant on what PCs can buy with WBL because, as I mentioned, WBL is kinda arbitrary. It's just the roughly averaged value of the random loot tables, which are just hand-me-downs from 2e. The result of WBL is that very low level characters are starved for the plusses they need, while very high level characters end up with wealth waaay beyond what they need for the Big Six, and a castle full of magical bling to boot. In short, I don't think that WBL is an accurate reflection of what the game expects PCs to have.

*Yes, that was very much sarcastic. ;)


Anzyr wrote:


And the One Ring is just an intelligent Ring of Invisibility for example. It's power is hardly Artifact level. The main reason its important is because someone is using it as a phylactery.
For Frodo, it's only an "intelligent Ring of Invisibility".
Quote:
Did not Gandalf tell you the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others. Yet even so, ass Ringbearer and as one that had borne it on finger and seen that which is hidden, your sight is grown keener. You have perceived my thought more clearly than many that are accounted wise."

In the hands of someone of greater native power, it would grant more power. Domination over others and particularly over wielders of the other rings. Even Frodo gained insight into others and was able to use it command Gollum. And perception into the wraithworld.

Not to mention, of course, stretching out a mortal's lifespan. Not entirely a good thing, witness Gollum. Or the Nazgul.

The other rings had artifact level powers as well. The elven rings were mostly used to preserve. The timeless quality of both Rivendell and Lorien is due to the Rings. And some measure of protection to those lands as well. Hard to quantify in game mechanics terms, but there nonetheless.

The One is also not just a phylactery. That wasn't its original purpose at all. It boosted his power while he held it and helped maintain his other material works, but was mainly intended to entrap the elves of Eregion, controlling them through the other rings. It preserving him when he was thrown down was something of a side effect.


Anzyr wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:


Well if they were not covered in magic items, which was the other poster's point it is not the same.

And what power did Aragaon's sword possess that made it an artifact in PF terms? The same question applies to Gandalf's items.

If you want to say they had a magic item or two sure, but it was not on the level of Pathfinder, and certainly most of them do not count as artifacts.

The Licensed Iron Crown MERP game, translated to D20, puts Gandalf's sword as a +6, Holy, Orc slaying sword that detects Orcs up to 1000 feet away. Aragorn's sword was +10 Holy, Flaming (either hot and Orc slaying or cold and Undead slaying). Sting on the other hand was a +3 or 4 dagger that glowed in the presence of orcs.
Nothing in the books or movies depicts that being a +10 weapon. Them having a license does not mean that is what it really translate into.
And the One Ring is just an intelligent Ring of Invisibility for example. It's power is hardly Artifact level. The main reason its important is because someone is using it as a phylactery.

Not sure if that is sarcasm or not, but the One Ring certainly is not an Intelligent Ring of Invisibility. It has many powers, including extending the bearers life, when worn the invisibility is a side effect of the wearer existing in two planes at once (that is why the ringwraiths on Weathertop could see Frodo and Frodo could see them clearly), the ring also would allow the wearer control over those wearing the other rings of power and other people (assuming he knew how to use the power and had the will to do so). Gollum was around 6 times as old as hobbit normally lives, and showing no signs of being elderly.

If the ring were just a Ring of Invisibility, why would they have gone to all the trouble to destroy it?

wraithstrike wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:


The Licensed Iron Crown MERP game, translated to D20, puts Gandalf's sword as a +6, Holy, Orc slaying sword that detects Orcs up to 1000 feet away. Aragorn's sword was +10 Holy, Flaming (either hot and Orc slaying or cold and Undead slaying). Sting on the other hand was a +3 or 4 dagger that glowed in the presence of orcs.
Nothing in the books or movies depicts that being a +10 weapon. Them having a license does not mean that is what it really translate into.

Their license and acceptance by Tolkien estate gives them more claim for defining what it is, than any one other the Tolkien family.


wraithstrike wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:


Well if they were not covered in magic items, which was the other poster's point it is not the same.

And what power did Aragaon's sword possess that made it an artifact in PF terms? The same question applies to Gandalf's items.

If you want to say they had a magic item or two sure, but it was not on the level of Pathfinder, and certainly most of them do not count as artifacts.

The Licensed Iron Crown MERP game, translated to D20, puts Gandalf's sword as a +6, Holy, Orc slaying sword that detects Orcs up to 1000 feet away. Aragorn's sword was +10 Holy, Flaming (either hot and Orc slaying or cold and Undead slaying). Sting on the other hand was a +3 or 4 dagger that glowed in the presence of orcs.
Nothing in the books or movies depicts that being a +10 weapon. Them having a license does not mean that is what it really translate into.

I'm not sure about +10. Seems high to me, but most of the ICE material feels that way to me. Too blatantly powerful, not subtle enough.

OTOH, how would you portray a +10 sword in literature? Especially if you're aiming for some degree of subtlety. And if its wielder isn't usually a viewpoint character and isn't the type to marvel over it or constantly talk about how amazingly well it cuts through things.
There is the "flash of flame" and "cloven head" bit quoted earlier and a few other lines scattered here and there.

Sting gets slightly more evidence actually: The aforementioned troll scene and a bit in Rivendell where Bilbo (hardly the muscular type) thrusts "it with little effort deep into a wooden beam." Definitely a nice plus on that.
And Sting doesn't even rate. It's not remembered. The other blades are legendary, famous over millenia.
That said, they're not artifacts on the scale of the Rings. But hardly your average magic weapon either.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Adamantine Dragon wrote:

LOL, just because some random game system puts Anduril as a +10 whatever is nothing but someone ELSE's nonsensical idea about LotR's magic items. What utter nonsense anyway.

This is +10 in MERP measurement which was a percentile based system rather than D20. Which makes it in Pathfinder terms, a +2 enhancement bonus to hit.. only. MERP magic was much more subtle and low impact than D20 battle magic, which reflects it's considerably more subtle showing in both book and screen.


LazarX wrote:
Adamantine Dragon wrote:

LOL, just because some random game system puts Anduril as a +10 whatever is nothing but someone ELSE's nonsensical idea about LotR's magic items. What utter nonsense anyway.

This is +10 in MERP measurement which was a percentile based system rather than D20. Which makes it in Pathfinder terms, a +2 enhancement bonus to hit.. only. MERP magic was much more subtle and low impact than D20 battle magic, which reflects it's considerably more subtle showing in both book and screen.

No, it's a +50 MERP weapon, I already translated it to D20.


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Vod Canockers wrote:
Anzyr wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:


Well if they were not covered in magic items, which was the other poster's point it is not the same.

And what power did Aragaon's sword possess that made it an artifact in PF terms? The same question applies to Gandalf's items.

If you want to say they had a magic item or two sure, but it was not on the level of Pathfinder, and certainly most of them do not count as artifacts.

The Licensed Iron Crown MERP game, translated to D20, puts Gandalf's sword as a +6, Holy, Orc slaying sword that detects Orcs up to 1000 feet away. Aragorn's sword was +10 Holy, Flaming (either hot and Orc slaying or cold and Undead slaying). Sting on the other hand was a +3 or 4 dagger that glowed in the presence of orcs.
Nothing in the books or movies depicts that being a +10 weapon. Them having a license does not mean that is what it really translate into.
And the One Ring is just an intelligent Ring of Invisibility for example. It's power is hardly Artifact level. The main reason its important is because someone is using it as a phylactery.

Not sure if that is sarcasm or not, but the One Ring certainly is not an Intelligent Ring of Invisibility. It has many powers, including extending the bearers life, when worn the invisibility is a side effect of the wearer existing in two planes at once (that is why the ringwraiths on Weathertop could see Frodo and Frodo could see them clearly), the ring also would allow the wearer control over those wearing the other rings of power and other people (assuming he knew how to use the power and had the will to do so). Gollum was around 6 times as old as hobbit normally lives, and showing no signs of being elderly.

If the ring were just a Ring of Invisibility, why would they have gone to all the trouble to destroy it?

wraithstrike wrote:
Vod Canockers wrote:


The Licensed Iron Crown MERP game, translated to D20, puts Gandalf's sword
...

Ok it does slightly more then just invisibility, but lets be honest here, Sphere of Annihilation it is not. And sphere is a minor artifact. Codex of the Infinite Planes likewise gives at will 9th level SLAs. And lets not forget doing the Time Warp with Scepter of Ages. So ya... No offense but Sauron just is not as big a bad as most D&D big bads. (Hell Vecna has two artifacts that make the One Ring look like a joke, not in PF due to legal matters but still.)


Aelryinth wrote:
SeeleyOne wrote:
I have seen mention that PCs could not buy magical items in AD&D. That is not true. When I played it in the later 80's, the magical item lists in Unearthed Arcana had prices. Then 2nd edition came out in 1989 and while we made the switch as soon as it came out, we continued to use those lists in Unearthed Arcana. Later they came out with some Magic Item Encyclopedias, and they had the prices as well. But all of my AD&D days had magical item shops of some sort. What else will you spend your gold on?

You couldn't buy magic items.

You could SELL magic items. And the gp value was used for calculating the amount of xp you got from finding the items... (snip)
==Aelryinth

Yes, this is exactly correct. I still have a lot of my AD&D stuff and I could probably look up the exact text if it is needed.

The way I always handled this was that it was assumed that you sold the items at auction in a major city. I would do a little d20 roll and give the players 90+1d20 % of the listed value.

Occasionally I would have other items appear at the auction house determined randomly but it was rare and usually lesser items.

Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Peet wrote:
Magic items have caster levels, but it's a shame that they don't have Item Levels any more (as they did in 3.5). In 3.5 you could say it's easy for a character to get an item of equal or lower level but make it difficult for items that are a higher level.

I believe you're thinking of 4e, not 3.5.

And yes, item levels are very handy!

Actually no, 3.5. I am in a 3.5 game currently. Maybe it's an artifact of 3.0 but the magic items we have definitely have item levels.

Peet


The One Ring shapes it's powers according to it's wielder, for a hobbit (and a Dunedain King), invisibility but with it Boromir knew he would have the power to defeat Sauron's armies militarily and Gandalf or Saruman, likewise would wield a greater power too.

A game system defining a book 'entity' will always be limiting it as a concept - but its an irresistible temptation for fans.


Okay guys, the One Ring was not a ring of invisibility. It was a ring of greater invisibility. :)

Seriously though the one ring had a lot of powers that were only hinted at that Frodo and Bilbo could never access (their UMD wasn't high enough?) but Gandalf seems to think that the power he would gain by wielding it would make it too tempting. Clearly Gandalf has a really high Wisdom score... maybe he is actually a cleric who only looks like a wizard. :)

As has been mentioned elsewhere Gandalf and his order of wizards were actually istari, created beings much like angels. No human wielded magic in the books without the help of Sauron or other evil powers.

LotR makes for poor comparisons to Pathfinder because Middle Earth is a
very low-magic world, and most of the magic there is wielded by evil forces who are contemptuous of the laws of nature and the consequences of defiling it. In a world where magic is as rare as it is in Middle Earth, a ring of invisibility would be a big deal. And while The One Ring, the three Elven Rings, and Narsil/Anduril could be called "artifacts" in the sense of that world, in a low-magic world an "artifact" would do a lot less than it would in Pathfinder, so in a world like Middle Earth a +2 keen flaming longsword might actually qualify as an "artifact." It would be like lowering the Epic bar from level 20 to level 5.

thejeff wrote:
LazarX wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Aragorn and his ancestors had apparently been carrying around the broken pieces of Narsil for generations. :)
Actually he wasn't. Elrond had kept the pieces of Narsil in trust, for the time when prophecy would mandate that the sword be reforged.
It's unclear exactly what happened to Narsil over the centuries. Strider was carrying the shards of Narsil when Frodo met him in Bree.

The confusion here is due to the differences between the book and the movie. In the movie Narsil was kept in Rivendell; in the book Aragorn carried it around.


Peet wrote:

Okay guys, the One Ring was not a ring of invisibility. It was a ring of greater invisibility. :)

Seriously though the one ring had a lot of powers that were only hinted at that Frodo and Bilbo could never access (their UMD wasn't high enough?) but Gandalf seems to think that the power he would gain by wielding it would make it too tempting. Clearly Gandalf has a really high Wisdom score... maybe he is actually a cleric who only looks like a wizard. :)

As has been mentioned elsewhere Gandalf and his order of wizards were actually istari, created beings much like angels. No human wielded magic in the books without the help of Sauron or other evil powers.

LotR makes for poor comparisons to Pathfinder because Middle Earth is a
very low-magic world, and most of the magic there is wielded by evil forces who are contemptuous of the laws of nature and the consequences of defiling it. In a world where magic is as rare as it is in Middle Earth, a ring of invisibility would be a big deal. And while The One Ring, the three Elven Rings, and Narsil/Anduril could be called "artifacts" in the sense of that world, in a low-magic world an "artifact" would do a lot less than it would in Pathfinder, so in a world like Middle Earth a +2 keen flaming longsword might actually qualify as an "artifact." It would be like lowering the Epic bar from level 20 to level 5

Except it's not a low-magic world in many ways. That's the point. It's a world with a very different type of magic. Men, as you say, can not normally wield magic without evil help. But Elves are magic. Everything they make is magic to mortal eyes. See the discussion about the elven cloaks. The elves don't even comprehend Pippin's question about "are they magic?"

Dwarven work is similar, though not as explicitly stated. And it's pretty clear that, though normal Mortals could not work any kind of magic, the Numenoreans and Dunedain of old could do so. Whether from lore learned from the elves or from the faint trace of elvish (and Maiar) blood that over thousands of years must have spread from the royal family into most of the population.

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In my campaign, I set it up so that there's no single mart but rather a large scattered marketplace. Often magical items are mixed with fake or cursed ones. The most reliable way to get a specific item is to hire a broker specialized in searching marketplaces, identifying magic items, and bargaining with merchants. Magic shops do exist, but only for commonly found consumables, like potions and wands.


Sorry if I offend but I find the notion of a Magic Mart so mind-jarringly rediculous as to demand a response. Reducing magical artifacts to such a mundane state would transform an otherwise believable setting into some wierd nursery fairy tale land. I realize that D&D in itself is fairly high magic but personally I strive to curtail it a bit. Keeping magical items the rare and wonderful things they should be is a big part of it. If this somehow reduces the effectiveness of highlevel non magic users, well it makes sense to me that wizards and the like SHOULD be more threatening at high level... but then they make up a very small percentage of the adventurer population... I would say something like 10% or less in my version of Golarion.


rgrove0172 wrote:
Sorry if I offend but I find the notion of a Magic Mart so mind-jarringly rediculous as to demand a response. Reducing magical artifacts to such a mundane state would transform an otherwise believable setting into some wierd nursery fairy tale land. I realize that D&D in itself is fairly high magic but personally I strive to curtail it a bit. Keeping magical items the rare and wonderful things they should be is a big part of it. If this somehow reduces the effectiveness of highlevel non magic users, well it makes sense to me that wizards and the like SHOULD be more threatening at high level... but then they make up a very small percentage of the adventurer population... I would say something like 10% or less in my version of Golarion.

So, can your PCs sell the magic items they find, but don't have a use for? If so, who buys them and why can't the PCs do the same?

Can PCs take the various item creation feats and make gear for the party? If so, there isn't much need for a "Magic Mart", except to sell things at. If they can't sell things, they'll either need to get much more loot in cash form or won't get much use out of the item creation feats.

And it's not really about the percentage of casters in the overall adventurer population, but about the effectiveness of the characters your players are playing.


Magical items are a rare find. Most commoners would be terrified at the notion of buying one, if they had the coin to do so. Buying one is more likely to occur in hushed undertones and a trip to the back room where somebody has something rare and wonderful they think you might be interested in, rather than it setting on an endcap.

Creating items simply to sell them is a problem. It goes counter to how I percieve the dynamic in my world but Ill admit I havent had the problem yet, none of my players has gone that way. I would probably hinder it in some way. Perhaps the authorities interfering with someone distributing dangerous items to the populace.

I disagree on your last comment however, it is about the rarity of magic users in general. The world isnt centered about the party and PCs, it exists and they live within it. If wizards and sorcerers become more powerful as they progress, as the rare and powerful characters they are, so be it. The fact that you have two of them in your party is particulary lucky, thats all.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Peet wrote:

Okay guys, the One Ring was not a ring of invisibility. It was a ring of greater invisibility. :)

Seriously though the one ring had a lot of powers that were only hinted at that Frodo and Bilbo could never access (their UMD wasn't high enough?) but Gandalf seems to think that the power he would gain by wielding it would make it too tempting. Clearly Gandalf has a really high Wisdom score... maybe he is actually a cleric who only looks like a wizard. :)

The problem with the One Ring is that the more powerful you are, the faster you succumb to it's corruption. Which is why Gandalf did not dare wearing it for even a second. The only person in the world that would be immune to it' corruption would be Tom Bombadil, but on him, it would be nothing more than a powerless band of metal. And for obvious reasons, he wasn't going to leave the Old Forest on anyone's errand.


rgrove0172 wrote:

Magical items are a rare find. Most commoners would be terrified at the notion of buying one, if they had the coin to do so. Buying one is more likely to occur in hushed undertones and a trip to the back room where somebody has something rare and wonderful they think you might be interested in, rather than it setting on an endcap.

Creating items simply to sell them is a problem. It goes counter to how I percieve the dynamic in my world but Ill admit I havent had the problem yet, none of my players has gone that way. I would probably hinder it in some way. Perhaps the authorities interfering with someone distributing dangerous items to the populace.

I disagree on your last comment however, it is about the rarity of magic users in general. The world isnt centered about the party and PCs, it exists and they live within it. If wizards and sorcerers become more powerful as they progress, as the rare and powerful characters they are, so be it. The fact that you have two of them in your party is particulary lucky, thats all.

Of course commoners aren't going to be buying magic items, beyond possibly cure potions and the like. But nobles, merchants, other adventurers?

And you didn't answer the question about selling? Not PCs making items to sell, but PCs trying to turn the stuff they find on their adventures into cash (or other, more useful, magic items). Can they do so? If so, there's some kind of market that the PCs should be able to buy from.

I get your point about rarity of mages in the world. As far as world logic goes, it makes sense. But it doesn't help with game balance within the party when the martials fall even farther behind at high levels because they can't get the magic gear they need.


In our game the emphasis is on the story, not performance. We've never had discussions or to my memory and concerns about balance and the like. The rules are used to manage the flow of the action, they arent permitted to introduce elements that are counter to our perception of the world and the events that take place in it.

As far as the buying and selling of magical items by adventurers.. I think where I stand, and failed to explain, is the rarity of adventurers in our world as well. My PC group is adventuring in NorthWest Taldor at the moment. I would say there probably arent more than another two or three such groups anywhere in that part of the kingdom. Expand it to all of Taldor and Ill go a half dozen at the most.

As magic items are a rare find, selling them and having them on hand at any one place is even more rare. If one or two are discovered a year in Taldor, and most are kept obviousl, there is never going to be much of a supply.


rgrove0172 wrote:

In our game the emphasis is on the story, not performance. We've never had discussions or to my memory and concerns about balance and the like. The rules are used to manage the flow of the action, they arent permitted to introduce elements that are counter to our perception of the world and the events that take place in it.

As far as the buying and selling of magical items by adventurers.. I think where I stand, and failed to explain, is the rarity of adventurers in our world as well. My PC group is adventuring in NorthWest Taldor at the moment. I would say there probably arent more than another two or three such groups anywhere in that part of the kingdom. Expand it to all of Taldor and Ill go a half dozen at the most.

As magic items are a rare find, selling them and having them on hand at any one place is even more rare. If one or two are discovered a year in Taldor, and most are kept obviousl, there is never going to be much of a supply.

A focus on story and lack of concern about balance is fine. I tend to swing that way myself.

Along with the rarity of adventurers.

Still, focusing away from the larger world and down to the particular PCs: Do they simply not find enough magic that they wind up with extras to sell? Do you tailor the equipment found to the needs of the PCs, so that they find little armor or weapons, for example, that they can't make use of?
If not, what do they do with the excess? Just leave it lying around? Carry it forever in a bag of holding? Or is there a way to sell it? If so, there is some kind of market for magic items. Not necessarily a single shop, or even a bazaar kind of deal, but some way to sell items. Which implies a way to buy them as well.

Or is your game even more magic-rare than I'm assuming? Your numbers seem to suggest that your entire group of PCs might find a single magic item in a year of game time, but probably won't. (~6 groups in Taldor, 1-2 items found per year.) I wasn't really expecting essentially no magic items in a PC group past the first few levels.


Meh, I use magic markets because it makes sense to have them in a game, they work, and it's an easy way to give the players more control over the world.


And therein lies the difference Abraham, in my view the players shouldnt have any control of the world. The risk, adventure and fun is in the challenge. Never being rich, powerful, secure, is the best way to keep the game interesting without involving battles between Gods and the like. Keep it low level and hungry is my motto.

The Jeff, I see your point, really I do. As mentioned I havent come up with this problem much as magical items are as you say, VERY rare. My current PC groups is approaching 3rd level and have found a few potions and one item so far.

No, I dont design my items to fit the group, quiet the contrary. I try to make them fit their location in a logical way. If the party cant use them and seek to sell them, they can... somewhere, but probably wont get what they expect for them. Even then, once sold, who knows where it goes? Purchased by a noble who then gave it as a gift to a scribe you stuck it in his study or something... it wont be there when they get back most likely. I follow this path of logic to its conclusion and that is that items probably arent lying around to be purchased either.


The players should absolutely have some control over the world.

If they can't enact their will at least somewhat then they aren't going to enjoy it.

I want them to build towers, build cities, and have more interaction than a video game.

A world that is static and beyond their control is worthless to me.

But then again it also consider it the players' story. I just put the antagonists in the way and the obstacles.

For me this is a more worthwhile endeavor and more realistic. After all if you have no effect on the world around you why exist?


Abraham, your comment as to Magic Marts "making sense" and "working" are in fact tied to your opinion that the game centers around the characters and therefor the world should too. I, and many other gamers, take a different approach where our world exists, with or without the players, and they have to make their way in it. It doesnt conform to them. The entire notion of a Magic Mart is geared towards the 'gamey' aspect of magic item value, class balance, and the like... all elements that dont actually exist in the 'real world' of a campaign but are part of the game/character/rules mechanic.

This mechanic is something many GMs try to reduce. Of course many GMs have a great time working within that sort of game environment too, as do their players. Its a matter of choice.

I was just commenting that from a strictly 'story' based game, the Magic Mart thing really doesnt seem to have a logical place. In my opinion of course.


rgrove, i disagree. i understand that my world is a realistic place that people have an effect on... including the player characters. also there is a market for magic items because they exist and some people npcs included will buy magic items.

if you want my full and nuanced position then read up on any of my many campaign level posts.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The idea that there wouldn't be a place to buy and sell magic items is tied directly to how common they are.

EVERYTHING will find a place to be bought and sold. That has no relevance on the PC's. It may only be in major cities, where such are created and the amount of gold necessary to justify them is present, but they WILL come into and exist.

Denying their existence with the rules as they are is not credible. After all, the majority of low level magic items can be made by adepts, or smiths with Magical Artisan.

As long as those feats exist, and NPC's exist who can use them, magic items will be made, and there will come into place somewhere they can be bought and sold. People will demand the security of getting what they pay for, and sellers want a common market where they can get a fair price.

Saying that 'magic marts' exist for the convenience of the PC's is a cop-out. They would exist regardless. The LACK of places that would sell magic items is what is unrealistic. IT doesn't matter how rare or expensive something is...somewhere, a place will come into being that sells them.

Once the owner of such a place proves it can be done, and people see the money they are making, others will come into existence, and the buying and selling will both ramp up, as now every smith will find a market for his sword +1, and every alchemist will always be able to sell their wares. The proliferation will encourage others to take up magic and craft more wares, which in turn will feed on itself and accelerate the process.

You can adjust the availability of magic items based on how far this process is along, but eliminating it, or trying to throw it back on catering to the players? That's just wrong.

==Aelryinth


I think much if not most opposition to the "Magic Mart" concept is "this very idea offends my sensibilities" couched as "this is illogical because ... "

Frankly, it does offend my sensibilities, and I can provide justifications as to why it shouldn't be allowed ... but what it boils down to is this: I can't freakin' abide it, and so I don't allow it in my games. Am I offended at the idea others don't share my opinion? Not really. Since no one's invited me to police their campaigns, my opinion doesn't really hold much water outside (as Mephisto says) "the smoldering labyrinth that is my brain."

It has a great deal to do with the level of magic use you wish in your campaign. In a conventional setting, such a media of exchange would unquestionably arise. There'd be either a market, a black market, or both. Once magic becomes common, it becomes a commodity.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

mm, that's the rub. Even RARE items will find an exchange developing. It's how it is in our world. It doesn't matter how rare it is, there's a public place you can go to to buy them, sell them, and have them appraised so buyers and sellers are assured what is being bought and sold is genuine.

In our world, it's auction houses. Sotheby's and Christies. High end items for high end gold.

Now, whether your PC's can afford them yet, is another problem. Maybe they have to trek to Waterdeep/Greyhawk/Absalom to actually find such a place. But it'll exist.

And once a big one does, smaller ones will necessarily follow.

==Aelryinth


I suppose if I think on it a bit, my issue with the Magic Mart idea stems from the view that such a thing would eventually destablize the world I want my characters to adventure in. If your various adventurers can sit back and flood the market with items, or sell off chests full of the items theyve found, creating huge surpluses filling shelves for customers to browse... I see every tavern owner with a Magic Missile wand behind the bar. Every group of bandits will have stealth capes and every ship captain a compass that creates wind. Armies will deploy with each soldier wielding an item as they clash. It gets rediculous.

I absolutely see your point that the rules specifically allow this and if Im a dirty GM by prohibiting it through world wrangling, so be it.


I think Aelryinth's logic is virtually flawless, though it does rely on a number of assumptions that aren't necessarily universal. Certainly, though, in an orthodox Pathfinder campaign, such would be the case.

One way around the widespread crass materialism and debasement of magic's wonder you fear, rgrove0172, is to accept Aelryinth's take on it, but employ it to your advantage. If, indeed, magic is quite rare, the truly reliable marketplaces about which Aelryinth speaks would be the province of the movers and shakers for truly significant items, as he/she mentioned. People might beggar themselves not only purchasing said item, but greasing the right palms in even finding it.

Perhaps magic is so uncommon that it's discredited as reliable, even as it is (for much better reason) in our world. Hedge wizards and old crones with genuine power do exist, but most are actually charlatans and snake oil salesmen. Sifting through the chaff to find the wheat might well make for adventures in and of themselves.

The idea, though, that Ye Olde Majick Shoppe doesn't somehow cheapen the game is an assertion that depends largely on your take on the game. Either perspective can be justified eminently well.


rgrove0172 wrote:

And therein lies the difference Abraham, in my view the players shouldnt have any control of the world. The risk, adventure and fun is in the challenge. Never being rich, powerful, secure, is the best way to keep the game interesting without involving battles between Gods and the like. Keep it low level and hungry is my motto.

The Jeff, I see your point, really I do. As mentioned I havent come up with this problem much as magical items are as you say, VERY rare. My current PC groups is approaching 3rd level and have found a few potions and one item so far.

No, I dont design my items to fit the group, quiet the contrary. I try to make them fit their location in a logical way. If the party cant use them and seek to sell them, they can... somewhere, but probably wont get what they expect for them. Even then, once sold, who knows where it goes? Purchased by a noble who then gave it as a gift to a scribe you stuck it in his study or something... it wont be there when they get back most likely. I follow this path of logic to its conclusion and that is that items probably arent lying around to be purchased either.

I think the difference in your style isn't that you don't want Magic Marts. It's the drastic drop in magic items. At least if you keep the numbers down as much as you suggest when the characters reach higher levels.

I assume you'll also ban the item creation feats? Or just arrange for not enough downtime/cash to make use of them. Because one PC crafter could easily craft more new items than your kingdom has seen in decades.

In short, PF is designed around far more common magic items than your game. In anything like the default setting, the magic market, in some form, makes sense.
You've moved far enough from the assumptions/guidelines in the Core rules that it may not in your case, but that doesn't say anything about whether it makes sense in other people's games.


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I think a lot of the disagreement here is coming from the term "Magic Mart" which is putting into people's heads the idea of a large, publically-visible supermarket with shelves stacked with wands, swords, and shields for sale.

So:

Aelryinth wrote:


In our world, it's auction houses. Sotheby's and Christies. High end items for high end gold.

Now, whether your PC's can afford them yet, is another problem. Maybe they have to trek to Waterdeep/Greyhawk/Absalom to actually find such a place. But it'll exist.

^^This.

Your "magic mart", whatever form it takes, doesn't have to have every item on sale and feed a player's desire for a certain item for their build. It only has to facilitate the buying and selling of magic items, and it could well only have a dozen or so random items on hand at any given time which tend to sit on the shelf for only a few hours before finding a buyer.

It may also have an edict from the local ruler that anything sold there gets sent straight to him in exchange for a previously decided fee, as he wants everything available to equip his army with (which keeps them out of general circulation for those of us that don't want anyone with a little excess cash in our game world to be able to go shopping for a longsword+1), meaning that our adventurers have to go in search of the black market if they want to purchase anything and will be competing against many other customers making it relatively hard to find a specific item.

Others may prefer their world has a fully-stocked "Walmart of Magic Items" style of store in every town and city, where today's stylish adventurer can find ten different styles of Platemail of Fire Resistance +6. That's fine too.

There's room for both approaches while still retaining a practical magic item economy within your game world.


Matt Thomason wrote:

I think a lot of the disagreement here is coming from the term "Magic Mart" which is putting into people's heads the idea of a large, publically-visible supermarket with shelves stacked with wands, swords, and shields for sale.

So:

Aelryinth wrote:


In our world, it's auction houses. Sotheby's and Christies. High end items for high end gold.

Now, whether your PC's can afford them yet, is another problem. Maybe they have to trek to Waterdeep/Greyhawk/Absalom to actually find such a place. But it'll exist.

^^This.

Your "magic mart", whatever form it takes, doesn't have to have every item on sale and feed a player's desire for a certain item for their build. It only has to facilitate the buying and selling of magic items, and it could well only have a dozen or so random items on hand at any given time which tend to sit on the shelf for only a few hours before finding a buyer.

It may also have an edict from the local ruler that anything sold there gets sent straight to him in exchange for a previously decided fee, as he wants everything available to equip his army with (which keeps them out of general circulation for those of us that don't want anyone with a little excess cash in our game world to be able to go shopping for a longsword+1), meaning that our adventurers have to go in search of the black market if they want to purchase anything and will be competing against many other customers making it relatively hard to find a specific item.

Others may prefer their world has a fully-stocked "Walmart of Magic Items" style of store in every town and city, where today's stylish adventurer can find ten different styles of Platemail of Fire Resistance +6. That's fine too.

There's room for both approaches while still retaining a practical magic item economy within your game world.

It may also be a dozen different stores or individuals who only have a few things each, but together make up a dispersed "marketplace".

And there are actual guidelines for what's available in what towns and they're more limited than many complainers seem to think.


Even phrasing it as "complainers" is something about which to complain. :)

It's a legitimate concern for those whose visions of fantasy are jarred by the concept of a "Magic Mart," unnecessarily pejorative though the phrase is.

The very idea that one can simply plunk down cash for magic items is arguably inherently antithetical to the spirit of fantasy literature, which is why so many object to it, and in their opinion rightly so.

It's one of the qualities that assure I'll never play in a Pathfinder Society game, because I'd be unable to avoid expressing my distaste at the relative ease with which players and characters acquire that which they want.

I do think the concept is a valid one, from a certain perspective (well elucidated above by more than one poster). And yet it is still entirely objectionable to others' mores and sensibilities. Their take is every bit as proper and substantive.

Again ... makes perfect sense for Pathfinder, objectionable though I and many find it. Players in home-brews (which are every bit as legitimate as PS), though, must accept that not every person of imagination and intelligence buys into the concept.


Jaelithe wrote:

Even phrasing it as "complainers" is something about which to complain. :)

It's a legitimate concern for those whose visions of fantasy are jarred by the concept of a "Magic Mart," unnecessarily pejorative though the phrase is.

The very idea that one can simply plunk down cash for magic items is arguably inherently antithetical to the spirit of fantasy literature, which is why so many object to it, and in their opinion rightly so.

It's one of the qualities that assure I'll never play in a Pathfinder Society game, because I'd be unable to avoid expressing my distaste at the relative ease with which players and characters acquire that which they want.

I do think the concept is a valid one, from a certain perspective (well elucidated above by more than one poster). And yet it is still entirely objectionable to others' mores and sensibilities. Their take is every bit as proper and substantive.

Again ... makes perfect sense for Pathfinder, objectionable though I and many find it. Players in home-brews (which are every bit as legitimate as PS), though, must accept that not every person of imagination and intelligence buys into the concept.

I'm not too fond of the idea either, personally. One of the things I hate about PF/D&D3.x(and earlier versions to a lesser extent) is the magic item treadmill and how gear dependent they are. But given that, which is baked into the default assumptions and even into the core rules, it's pretty hard to justify not having some kind of market for magic items. They're too easy to make. The PCs find too many of them. The PCs are generally too focused and have too specific needs to rely on looting everything they need. Unless the GM specifically arranges for that, which can be just as jarring as a magic mart. The PCs in every published adventure I've ever seen, back to 1st Edition, find far more magic than they can use. They need some way to sell it. Which implies a way to buy it.

And again, it's not necessarily a single store with all the items lined up for sale on its walls. Just that things appropriate for the town's gold limit can usually be found for sale somewhere in town.


thejeff wrote:
And again, it's not necessarily a single store with all the items lined up for sale on its walls. Just that things appropriate for the town's gold limit can usually be found for sale somewhere in town.

Seems we're on the same page, here.

I agree the whole thing could be done with a certain panache that adds to the setting. It's the mass market concept that really gets me. If instead it's conveyed with subtlety and regard to story, it might very well be far less objectionable, and even add some cool color.


Consider the other extreme, in which all magic items are rare and revered.

Haleton Chronicler
Town Council Selling Founder's Hammer
by Melinda Scrivner

Today the town council made the startling announcement that they will be selling the enchanted lucerne hammer left in its care by the estate Haldor the Hale, founder of our fair town.

The buyer is an adventurer called Boras the Breaker, who described himself as "Mostly a fighter, but I picked up a few other tricks along the way." When asked of his exploints, Boras replied, "Clearing out ancient underground tunnels, especially lairs of young dragons. After the third horde, I got enough gold to buy a serious enchanted weapon, not just a palin enchanted sword but some serious kick. But finding an enchanted lucerne hammer has been a real sore point until I found your little town." Boras explained that in his fighter training he had specialized in lucerne hammer, which earned him his moniker, "the Breaker."

The Hammer of Haldor, made for Haldor by the esteemed wizard Marlius to defeat the dread demon Gobblub, had been on display in the town hall for all citizens to admire, until stolen by a common rogue one hundred years ago. After its recovery by Acemi, paladin of Iomedae, the town council stored it in a secure vault.

Mayor Hosbane declared that the sale of the Hammer of Haldor would solve the tax shortfall that the town has been facing. However, a clerk of the town council, who wishes to remain anonymous, reports that the town council voted to double their salary immediately after agreeing to sell the Hammer of Haldor.

Protesters are already objecting to the sale of a piece of the town's history to a fighter of unknown reputation. The bards know of no chronicles of Boras the Breaker as hero or as villain. Boras said that he has been adventuring for less than two years, and has traveled so fast and far that the tales have had no chance to reach this town. And all that matters is that he has the cash to pay.


My groups can’t really get together very often, so I consider our gaming time to be valuable. I’d rather spend time actually moving the story forward. I really don’t want to spend game time shopping.
With that said, my groups tend to be part of a greater organization whether that be a government, temple, or university with resources. The PCs have the contacts and the organization will tend to broker requested magic items, help with the sale of magic items, or create needed items.

If they are not part of an organization, then they need to find someone who manages to deal in such items, which I usually provide in an NPC somewhere.

So are there magic shop in every town? No. Are there organizations and individuals who deal in the trade of highly valuable items, who can be found by someone with the right amount of gold? Yes. In fact, I’d argue that some brokers are actively seeking those who might have come upon large amounts of treasure that might seek to trade.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aelryinth wrote:

mm, that's the rub. Even RARE items will find an exchange developing. It's how it is in our world. It doesn't matter how rare it is, there's a public place you can go to to buy them, sell them, and have them appraised so buyers and sellers are assured what is being bought and sold is genuine.

You're judging things based on modern context in which a very rare item can instantly get a buyer through the internet, telephone, cheap, easy, fast ways of communication, not to mention easy delivery through post.

In a world where such things are not common access, much of that assumption is thrown out the window. If players openly advertise a +10 artifact sword for sale, the first response is mostly going to be a thief/assasin cartel looking to obtain the blade over their dead bodies. Even "good" organisations may resort to this... just to prevent their enemies from succeeding first.


LazarX, in a world with magical divination spells being routinely cast and used, a network of magical shops with quick and easy identification and location of a magic item for sale and shipping (teleported?) would be an inevitable economic development.

My campaign world has consolidated most of the shops that sell magic items into a worldwide spellcaster's consortium and if you have the gold, and know who to talk to, you can pretty much get anything you want from any shopkeeper, collector or broker who has access to the consortium's magic item inventory.

Just like in real life, if you have the gold, you can get what you want.

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