Basically the title of the thread says it all...
I am GMing a game with 5 PCs and 3 of them really do suck at the rp aspect of the game. 1 is really trying to get into it and rp his character the best he can (this is his first rpg) so this thread isnt about him at all. But i have 2 players that really just suck/hate rp.
So here is a little summary of my problem... Everytime there is even the slightest bit of dialogue one of my players just sits back and shuts down, whining about everything the other players are doing until he can have a chance to throw a fireball at something. And my other player always asks me about something in game he wants to know and when i point out the HE cant ask me that he lets out a huge sigh and in a mocking tone "his character" asks me the same exact thing.
Ive looked everywhere for advice so now its time to see if you guys can help a fella out.
MG
whining about everything the other players are doing until he can have a chance to throw a fireball at something
You could say "stop whining while we're role-playing or you'll have to leave". Four players is plenty.
And my other player always asks me about something in game he wants to know and when i point out the HE cant ask me that he lets out a huge sigh and in a mocking tone "his character" asks me the same exact thing.
Can you give an example of the sort of thing you mean? Generally speaking a player can ask a GM a question.
whining about everything the other players are doing until he can have a chance to throw a fireball at somethingYou could say "stop whining while we're role-playing or you'll have to leave". Four players is plenty.
And my other player always asks me about something in game he wants to know and when i point out the HE cant ask me that he lets out a huge sigh and in a mocking tone "his character" asks me the same exact thing.Can you give an example of the sort of thing you mean? Generally speaking a player can ask a GM a question.
My guess? Something like "How do we solve the puzzle?"
Talk to them.
Maybe they don't enjoy roleplaying or maybe there's some other factor involved. However I don't think there's any solution that doesn't involve talking to your players.
I think this is a matter of expectations. These guys pehaps signed up to play a skirmish wargame. I think you need to have a talk with all your players and then eventually reform or boot the guys that dosent roleplay.
But it is a sucky situation if you are friends.
Yea i will try talking to my rp whiner before next session. i dont want to have him leave... just stop whining
I dont mind if a player asks me a question in fact i encourage it! Especially since we have a new player but what does bother me is when a player clearly asks me a question when im "in character" and they are just looking for a straight answer from me and not from the npc.
I dont care about using voices or anything like that but i do feel like your character should be in dialogue with my npc... Do i just have too high of expectations?
So, it's something like this?
GM, in character: Arr, they do say the sea witch knows all about Bone Island.
Player: Does he know where the sea witch lives?
GM, annoyed at being forced to step out of character: You can't ask ME that!
Player: Sigh. My character asks the drunken pirate if he knows where the sea witch lives.
If so, there are a number of options. One is to stay in character, setting a good example and minimizing disruption.
Player: Does he know where the sea witch lives?
GM: You seek the sea witch, you say? Aye, I might be able to help you there. Only, my memory gets a bit hazy when I haven't had nothing to drink...
Or, you could relentlessly refuse to co-operate until you've received the 'correct' form of response, in the hope that he'll eventually learnt to give you what you want first time. How well this will work depends on how stubborn the player is.
Player: Does he know where the sea witch lives?
GM: You don't know. You haven't asked him.
Player: I ask him.
GM: How do you ask him?
Player: By opening my mouth and words coming out.
GM: And what words do you use?
Player (rolls eyes): Where the sea witch live?
GM: Aye, I might be able to help you there. Only, my memory gets a bit hazy when I haven't had nothing to drink...
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Some players are just not into the RP aspect for whatever reason... some like to say it's "childish", which I find comical coming from someone who is essentially playing a game of make believe with rules... and some are just shy or embarrassed, even normally extroverted individuals can seem to get "stage fright" when they have to step into character. Of course some just have no interest in RP at all and care only about the mechanical aspects of the game and want to treat it like an MMO on paper.
Aside from the advice already given about talking to the players and finding out what they are looking for, or refusing to break character and forcing them to do the same, I would recommend a method of coaxing/coaching to try to get the player to think and act more like their character. I personally require my players to write up a basic backstory and character description (One that does not use the character's class or specific metrics, ie 5'8", 160 pounds, in the description. I want them to describe their characters as one would be if introducing the character in a book), this way the player has to jog their imaginations a bit more and generally develops more of a connection with the character instead of just numbers on a page.
Sometimes the coaxing requires a bit of positive reinforcement and good natured humor, some times a bit of cajoling, and sometimes there is always the "take what your players say they do/say at face value" method to get the point across. This happens more often when multiple players are disrupting the RP or constantly breaking character. You have Bob and Jim joking and making comments off the cuff, "I just punch him in the face for the lulz!" "Haha I tell the Duke to go F himself!" OK, fine, so then I tell Bob to roll initiative... You get some complaints and such, but after a few times even the most hard headed individual gets the idea.
The biggest thing to remember is that everyone has different comfort levels when it comes to RP and you should try to make sure all of your players are in the same general range. And sometimes you just have to decide if certain players fit your game style too. If you run a RP heavy, in character style of game and someone refuses to do that or actively complains, they are ultimately being disruptive and may not be the best fit for you.
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Reward extra xp for roleplaying. Changes behavior so fast you wouldn't believe it.
Thanks for the advice thus far guys!
Moondragon Ive already tried to reward extra xp for good roleplaying and cleaver solutions for any situations the PCs might find themselves in and everyone but these two are all on board but these guys just complain about me favoring the other 3 players...
I guess I will try and talk to these guys a bit more and try to find a balance that we are all comfortable with. Ive read some forums about totally negating the xp from combat and only reward it for rp but this seems a bit extream. Does anyone have some good middle ground options for me?
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Problem with the advice in this thread is ultimately it leads a horse to water but cant make em drink. My advice is seek out an RP focused group. You don't have to quit your current one but you will have to adjust your expectations while playing with them. If that is not possible you may have to take more drastic action and either leave this group or ask the problem player(s) to leave.
@kenderkin: What the hell is Augsburgers?
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I think you are probably being too picky...
If fireball guy doesnt want to RP much, then you can feel free to describe what his character is doing....
After asking what my players do, I often interlude with a quick recap.
Carla is search under the bed, by the gasp she looks like he might have found either termites or some old socks (a bad perception roll)
Hogar is sharpening his axe and checking out carlas bum with a disturbing smile
Fizban is trolling through is spell book, he seems to have lost is bookmark for the fireball spell
and Azbat the mighty has just wandered down the hall following a strange noise...
Often I find other players will suddenly perk up with, wait! no that's not what Im doing! or... I;m following Azbat!
if he wont act, describe what he is doing to the others (drooling while staring at the wall, whatever)
Players also dont have to "speak in character"
simply narrating is acceptable... "I ask the pirate where bone is, what does he say?"
is just as good as :
"Excuse me good sir, where doth bone island lie?"
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Not being too invasive but is there any chance your friend has Augsburgers?
Augsburgers? You mean he's a Bavarian cockerel? I suppose it's possible. I could ask him, but he's a bit reluctant to open up about that sort of thing, probably because of his Asperger's syndrome. He's also hypothetical, but he's seeing a psychiatrist about that.
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Problem with the advice in this thread is ultimately it leads a horse to water but cant make em drink. My advice is seek out an RP focused group. You don't have to quit your current one but you will have to adjust your expectations while playing with them. If that is not possible you may have to take more drastic action and either leave this group or ask the problem player(s) to leave.
@kenderkin: What the hell is Augsburgers?
A citizen of Augsburg, in Bavaria. Most famous for being the city where the most commonly used Lutheran Confession of Faith was presented.
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Players also dont have to "speak in character"
simply narrating is acceptable... "I ask the pirate where bone is, what does he say?"
is just as good as :
"Excuse me good sir, where doth bone island lie?"
Agreed 100%. I've never actually gamed with anyone who didn't do this to some extent, and I think the GM or player who insisted on everyone always speaking in-character at all times would be far more infuriating and Asperger's-esque.
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...Everytime there is even the slightest bit of dialogue one of my players just sits back and shuts down, whining about everything the other players are doing until he can have a chance to throw a fireball at something...
This player obviously isn't interested in RP. He's not necessarily bad at it, he's not trying. You can approach this one of two ways: encourage him to try by providing in-game incentives or just accept that he isn't interested in dialogue. Combat is a huge part of tabletop RPGs, and there are just some people who are more into that aspect of the game than the character acting aspect. Under no circumstances should you ever force the player to RP.
...And my other player always asks me about something in game he wants to know and when i point out the HE cant ask me that he lets out a huge sigh and in a mocking tone "his character" asks me the same exact thing...
This player is mocking you because you are being overly pedantic. Imagine an old school computer RPG with an inflexible text parser- the kind which would accept "pick lock" but not "pick the lock." YOU are the text parser for your PF game. When you make your player say every line of dialogue his character says, you are slowing the game down by requiring the exact correct input in your parser.
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So here is a little summary of my problem... Everytime there is even the slightest bit of dialogue one of my players just sits back and shuts down, whining about everything the other players are doing until he can have a chance to throw a fireball at something.
Make it so ALL OF HIS MANNERISMS, including his sighs and comments, are now all in character, and the NPCs react accordingly.
If he gets up to go make an offering to the porcelain throne then his character walked out of sight, whipped his member out, and relieved himself in an appropriate area.
Have the random NPC character the character is mocking answer him to the best of his ability, and give the player loads of misinformation.
That's a great idea Taku!
Thanks again for all the above guys. I will be talking to my players before the next session andtry to get used all in the same page or at least come to an understanding we are all ok with. I think we can all fund middle ground we see good with.
I will let you guys know how our session goes on Tuesday.
MG
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Before I get started, I'd advise everyone to keep sight of the fact that we only have the OP's side of the story here. I'm not saying we don't believe you MotherGoose, just that your view on the matter is going to be just that, your view, and without the player's pitching in, we can't get a full view of the situation.
That said, Taku, that's a bloody awful idea. Okay, so the player shouldn't be mocking. That's a poor move on his part. But seriously MotherGoose, do you really think that punishing him for not being a fan of in character roleplaying is going to make the situation any better? If I pulled that crap on my group, they'd just end up angry and leave the game, and I couldn't really blame them. Hell, if I found a GM who insisted that I speak in character 100% of the time and punished me if I didn't, I'd be leaving, and I actually LIKE speaking in character.
Apart from LARPers, a lot of role players won't stay in character all the time. My group maybe do a 50/50 split, with some players doing more and others doing less. That's fine, I understand that it's because some of them aren't as comfortable with it as others.
As others have suggested, and as you seem to have said you'll be doing, the best solution is to talk to them and discuss it like adults. Just remember that forcing them to do something they don't want to is probably going to end poorly. The game is meant to be fun, for everyone. This might require some compromise on some people's parts, and yes, that includes the GM. For example, I hate gnomes to an irrational extent, mostly due to how I've seen them played in the past. A couple of my players love gnomes. We've compromised, I agreed to allow gnomes and they agreed to not play them as scatterbrained/slapstick comedy loving avatar of chaos nutjobs. Everyone's happy.
What's wrong with accepting that some people don't enjoy playing in character? Don't play with them if it bothers you. Find 4 players or whatever that enjoy talking entirely in character.