Polymorph effects (including wild shape) change your apparent form, but they do not change you into the actual creature. You do not change type. If your base form is humanoid, you are still affected by effects such as reduce person and so on.
As a GM, I would encourage druids focused on wild shape to research specific versions of enlarge/reduce person that apply only when wild shaped--or, barring that, crafting an item to do the same. For that matter, there may already be an item for this.
Polymorph effects (including wild shape) change your apparent form, but they do not change you into the actual creature. You do not change type. If your base form is humanoid, you are still affected by effects such as reduce person and so on.
As a GM, I would encourage druids focused on wild shape to research specific versions of enlarge/reduce person that apply only when wild shaped--or, barring that, crafting an item to do the same. For that matter, there may already be an item for this.
While under polymorph spells and effects (including wild shape), you cannot take the effects of another polymorph spell or any spell that would change your size. It's right in the polymorph school rules - unless you're letting your players custom make a spell that goes around that rule, which is probably well into "house rules" at that point.
Note: I try to avoid discussing house rules (or anything other than RAW/RAI) in the Rules forum without specifically calling it out as a house rule or rules variation. I'd encourage others to do the same.
The rules have already been covered, the question answered. There's nothing wrong with continuing the discussion in a "here are the rules, now here are your options" manner once the initial point is addressed.
Most of the good information about how beast shape works is in the polymorph section of the magic chapter.
To understand wildshape you need to have access to...
the polymorph section
the wild shape spell in question
the druid section
This is from the lead developer, and the polymorph rules do no say you type changes, which would have to be stated. Changing "form" is not changing "type".
Stardust is correct. Polymorph spells do not change your type.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
If anyone knows where the "you're not the new type" is still listed, I'd appreciate pointing it out (or anything else relevant here). Thanks
The way all Polymorph spells and effect works is you only get what is listed in the individual spell/ability, or the general polymorph effect rules. So unless an entry somewhere says "Your type changes to match the form assumed", your type does not change.
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As explained early when you turn into an animal you gain only the abilities and changed listed in the spell you are using and the polymorph rules it is based on. Since at no point does it say your type changes you remain your type despite the physical changes. For example using undead anatomy does not make your Con score go to - or make you immune to mind affecting abilities which are properties of the undead type.
Spells like animal growth target a specific type of creature. So only creatures of the animal type can be affected. This also means some animal companions that become magical beasts are no longer affected as well, unless their description specifically counters this.
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Concerro, can you link what posting that comment is from?
I understand Polymorph spells only do what's listed and that it's not listed that your type changes, however, it does say "A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature." So all it says is that you physically are something else. Plus, it says the polymorpher, to some extent anyway, loses their original form ("you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision"). This leads me to believe there is a grey area here of what you are.
So if you physically become an animal (per the Polymorph description), why wouldn't a spell that targets "one animal" work on you?
Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature.
So:
- you take the shape of another creature.- it don't grant all of the abilities of the creature. Its type is one of the abilities of the creature.
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Taenia, was just looking at animal companions and they aren't actually list as any type. It does state "They remain creatures of the animal type for purposes of determining which spells can affect them." I'm assuming that means they're Magical Creatures as "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal." Plus it seems redundant to state they're Animals for purposes of spell casting if they were still actually animals. Sorry if this isn't seen as relevant, I just found it interesting that they would be one type of creature but count as another for spell effects...
Again, I could have sworn the Polymorph description used to say flat out that you don't change type, and that now being omitted (if it was in fact there) is what made me re-question this (that and not having any more details on how physically becoming an animal is different than animal type). Reading the posts associated with Concerro's quote would probably help too.
Apologies if I am remembering incorrectly on the polymorph description, just looking for rules/FAQ's to help clear this up.
Thanks again!
Animal companions aren't magical creatures. They don't start with intelligence 3, you will have to raise the characteristic to 3 when they increase in HD.
"They remain creatures of the animal type for purposes of determining which spells can affect them." is a way to differentiate them from familiars, that become magical beasts.
The second option is to form a close bond with an animal companion. A druid may begin play with any of the animals listed in Animal Choices. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the druid on her adventures.
It repeat animals a few times.
Concerro, can you link what posting that comment is from?
I understand Polymorph spells only do what's listed and that it's not listed that your type changes, however, it does say "A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature." So all it says is that you physically are something else. Plus, it says the polymorpher, to some extent anyway, loses their original form ("you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision"). This leads me to believe there is a grey area here of what you are.
So if you physically become an animal (per the Polymorph description), why wouldn't a spell that targets "one animal" work on you?
No problem. The question was actually about wildshape.
Start from the top of the topic and read down. :)
Taenia, was just looking at animal companions and they aren't actually list as any type. It does state "They remain creatures of the animal type for purposes of determining which spells can affect them." I'm assuming that means they're Magical Creatures as "no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal." Plus it seems redundant to state they're Animals for purposes of spell casting if they were still actually animals. Sorry if this isn't seen as relevant, I just found it interesting that they would be one type of creature but count as another for spell effects...
Again, I could have sworn the Polymorph description used to say flat out that you don't change type, and that now being omitted (if it was in fact there) is what made me re-question this (that and not having any more details on how physically becoming an animal is different than animal type). Reading the posts associated with Concerro's quote would probably help too.
Apologies if I am remembering incorrectly on the polymorph description, just looking for rules/FAQ's to help clear this up.
Thanks again!
Actually they are still animals, not magical beast. They get a rules exception allowing them to be animals with abnormal intelligence.
There is actually a feat that can change them into a magical beast.
And if they were magical beast they would have to be explicitly changed into one. Adding intelligence does not change them into another creature type.