Yeah, high dex is our party's rogue does massive amounts of damage through sneak attack. At level 5 she's doing 4d6 with each Stab with 2 rapiers.
Yeah, high dex is our party's rogue does massive amounts of damage through sneak attack. At level 5 she's doing 4d6 with each Stab with 2 rapiers.
Assuming 20 dex
Her to hit is +3BAB +5DEX - 4 TWF penalties = +4 to hit
At level 5 she's doing 4d6 with each Stab with 2 rapiers.
Is one of those Rapiers a light weapon?
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What? Skill mastery allows you to take 10 under specific conditions: when stress and distractions would normally prevent you from doing so. UMD doesn't allow you to take 10 even when you are normally allowed to.
Are you arguing that you could take 10 with UMD while stressed, but not not when you are not stressed? Are you saying that using UMD is always a stressful situation, and that is the reason why you can't take 10 with it?
What? Skill mastery allows you to take 10 under specific conditions: when stress and distractions would normally prevent you from doing so. UMD doesn't allow you to take 10 even when you are normally allowed to.
Are you arguing that you could take 10 with UMD while stressed, but not not when you are not stressed? Are you saying that using UMD is always a stressful situation, and that is the reason why you can't take 10 with it?
"Skill Mastery: The rogue becomes so confident in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions.
Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A rogue may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for skill mastery to apply to each time."
The ability allows you to take 10 and then goes so far to clarify that that includes even when stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.
"even if" cannot be interpreted as "if and only if"
Can you use Skill Mastery to take 10 while swimming in stormy weather?
* You can't take 10 on a Swim check in stormy water, even if you aren't otherwise being threatened or distracted.
When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.
You are arguing the equivalent of allowing someone to take a 5ft step in difficult terrain using only Step Up, because the feat doesn't say that other limitations still apply.
Bad example. The ability says you can take a 5ft step as an immediate action. It doesn't grant a 5ft step, it grants an action to use a 5ft step.
Doesn't really compare at all to skill mastery.
*And suddenly we're in the rules forum*
Can you use Skill Mastery to take 10 while swimming in stormy weather?
Yes
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You are arguing the equivalent of allowing someone to take a 5ft step in difficult terrain using only Step Up, because the feat doesn't say that other limitations still apply.Bad example. The ability says you can take a 5ft step as an immediate action. It doesn't grant a 5ft step, it grants an action to use a 5ft step.
Doesn't really compare at all to skill mastery.
*And suddenly we're in the rules forum*
Sure it does. Being in difficult terrain doesn't prevent you from taking immediate actions.
*And suddenly we're in the rules forum*
To be fair, I linked to the Rules forum thread so the debate could move there. But you continue to speak in absolutes without justifying your position because you don't want to engage in a rules debate.
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Don't know if someone posted this already but fighter (weapon master) 3/knife master scout rogue X get some gloves of dueling twf with improved two weapon feint works well. Or go slayer.
I like the Fighter (Brawler) 3 / Rogue (Knife Master) X with punching daggers.
NOW as to taking 10 on UMD. The answer is YES PLEASE! Rogues are one of the only non-caster classes that can use both staves and scrolls reliably and in the case of staves, with a fixed caster level. (Yes you are taking skill focus UMD, you need a range option to be a functional character.)I have a question. If you are putting max ranks in UMD and didn't completely tank your CHA on character creation you will have at least a 13 in UMD by level 10 (the earliest you could take Skill Mastery) and with Skill Focus that goes up to at least a 19. So, even if you roll a 1 on your skill check you are still able to use Wands and Staves. If you have a higher CHA then you are sitting at UMD 20+ without even rolling the dice. If you're really enthusiastic about it, you can purchase a Circlet of Persuasion and get a +3 to your Charisma based checks putting you at a 22-23+ before the d20 drops. So I guess my question is: Barring a high frequency of high level scroll use and ability score emulation, why would you need to take 10 on UMD at that point? You can already use wands and staves without even rolling.
For staves you need to emulate an ability and emulate a class feature. Say your bonus at 10 is a +19, that is taking 29 for 14 attribute and 9 caster level.
If you roll a 1 twice, that is 5 in the attribute and 0 in caster level.
Skillmastery in UMD allows you to turn money into decent casting ability.
At 20 you could take a 42 for 27 attribute and 22 caster level.
It's a neat trick.
For staves you need to emulate an ability and emulate a class feature. Say your bonus at 10 is a +19, that is taking 29 for 14 attribute and 9 caster level...NOW as to taking 10 on UMD. The answer is YES PLEASE! Rogues are one of the only non-caster classes that can use both staves and scrolls reliably and in the case of staves, with a fixed caster level. (Yes you are taking skill focus UMD, you need a range option to be a functional character.)I have a question. If you are putting max ranks in UMD and didn't completely tank your CHA on character creation you will have at least a 13 in UMD by level 10 (the earliest you could take Skill Mastery) and with Skill Focus that goes up to at least a 19. So, even if you roll a 1 on your skill check you are still able to use Wands and Staves. If you have a higher CHA then you are sitting at UMD 20+ without even rolling the dice. If you're really enthusiastic about it, you can purchase a Circlet of Persuasion and get a +3 to your Charisma based checks putting you at a 22-23+ before the d20 drops. So I guess my question is: Barring a high frequency of high level scroll use and ability score emulation, why would you need to take 10 on UMD at that point? You can already use wands and staves without even rolling.
Ok, got it. I wasn't aware the DC 20 to activate a Wand/Staff in the chart wasn't as straight forward as it looked. After reading the skill more carefully I see it is more complicated than that. Emulating class features and ability scores is harder, I see why you are going for it now. Thanks.
Unwavering Skill (Ex): You can always take 10 or 20 on class skills, even if threatened or in a hazardous situation. You can't use this ability with skill checks that don't normally allow you to take 10 or take 20.
A similar ability, that explicitly says what some of you want to assume skill mastery means.
Sure it does. Being in difficult terrain doesn't prevent you from taking immediate actions.You are arguing the equivalent of allowing someone to take a 5ft step in difficult terrain using only Step Up, because the feat doesn't say that other limitations still apply.Bad example. The ability says you can take a 5ft step as an immediate action. It doesn't grant a 5ft step, it grants an action to use a 5ft step.
Doesn't really compare at all to skill mastery.
*And suddenly we're in the rules forum*
You know that that doesn't have anything to do with anything.
*NOTE: Had to PC up my response to this.*
Sure it does. Being in difficult terrain doesn't prevent you from taking immediate actions.You are arguing the equivalent of allowing someone to take a 5ft step in difficult terrain using only Step Up, because the feat doesn't say that other limitations still apply.Bad example. The ability says you can take a 5ft step as an immediate action. It doesn't grant a 5ft step, it grants an action to use a 5ft step.
Doesn't really compare at all to skill mastery.
*And suddenly we're in the rules forum*
You know that that doesn't have anything to do with anything.
*NOTE: Had to PC up my response to this.*
Not that I'm perfect at this (trust me I'm not), but I've found walking away for a bit is better then venting your frustration. Even when you're right, your anger makes you come across as wrong.
(this coming from someone who falls into this trap, way too often).
1. Rogues are hard out enough,taking 10 on umd is no big deal.
2. From my reading I agree that it lets you take 10 on UMD. Why? Because other skills explicitly state you still can't, this one doesn't. Just that you can take 10 "whenever you dam well please".
Putting it another way as found on another forum.
""You cannot take 10 with this skill" seems pretty definitive. Skill Mastery does not provide you with the ability to take 10 with skills that specifically dictate you cannot take 10. It only modifies the conditions under which you may use a skill where you are allowed to take 10."
Skill Mastery doesn't state that it allows you to take 10 on skills that explicitly state that cannot take 10.