I've been going round and round about what i'd like to play for my next PFS PC and i think i'd like to try out the Gunslinger. I've played pretty much all of the standard "D&D-ish" PC's but have NEVER played something that shoots with a gun.
Anyone have any general advice/tips for the GS?
Anything specific as far what is or is not allowed in PFS when it comes to the GS?
I'm just starting my reading and research so tips and what not will be really helpful.
Thanks.
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You are going to get a lot of advice about how to make a uber-powerful death-cannon. Ignore it. It is easy to make really fun gunslingers with only a modicum of powergaming.
Make what sounds fun. Gunslingers use a lot of feats, same as any other ranged fighter, but some of them are not as necessary as they are for archers. I have heard many people claim, for example, that gunslingers should have Precise Shot. It turns out that when you are targeting touch AC, this is much less of an issue. (My gunslinger/paladin) is level 6 and hits reliably without that feat.
Consider multiclassing! There are many class combos that work well with gunslinger. Much of the gunslinger's abilities are front-loaded (occur early in their level progression). This seems especially true for Mysterious Stranger. That means a dip in gunslinger is completely viable.
Lastly, try to ignore all the groans and exclamations of "not in my fantasy!" Those people probably aren't much fun regardless of which class you play.
the one thing to keep in mind is that gunslingers more than anyone need to keep good track of their ammo expenditures, as it accounts for a significant portion of their gold. (at last more than other classes). Just make sure you are ok with the bookkeeping.
Anyone have any general advice/tips for the GS?
In general: pump dex. Everything after that is gravy. Stack +hit at the cost of damage, because the higher you go the more your to hit outpaces things touch ac.
you want a free action reload. You want a free action reload. Get an archtype that helps with the reload speed, and spend the gold on alchemical cartridges.
Point blank precise shot ASAP (because even hitting touch AC, a -8 shooting through the fighters overly large posterior into melee hurts)
Anything specific as far what is or is not allowed in PFS when it comes to the GS?
No pepperboxes. No double hackbutts. Since the changes to weapon cords, going double pistol has recently become...problematic. Unless its against your vision of the character I'd highly advise going musket master.
Your guns count as magic items for fame and prestige, don't blow too many secondary missions.
A gunslinger is powerful enough that making some less than optimized choices can leave you with a powerful enough character, especially for PFS where the combats aren't uber deadly and skills are more useful then they might otherwise be.
Tell me about the gunslinger you have in your head.
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I just checked the Additional Resources, and it says Culverin and Double Hackbut are not allowed,but from what I see, the Pepperbox is legal.
That being said I have to agree with BNW that getting free action reloads is a must. A pistol with Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges, or a Musket Master with Alchemical Cartridges should do the trick, and in the long run is more reliable than a Pepperbox
Double Barrel Pistols are getting a bad rap right now. The ability to take a -4 to hit to double the number or attacks in a round is powerful, especially since it stacks with Rapid Shop to get an extra attack at full BAB -2. Your hit numbers suck, but you are hitting touch ACs, and sheer volume of fire helps, but will potentially slowing down your turn to a crawl as you resolve 6 attacks to everyone else's two attacks. Carefully weigh the benefits and costs of buying a double barreled weapon.
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I would definitely agree with BNF. Either way you go Rapid Reload is a must have. My musket master (Munny) only took 5 levels (he's currently 10th), the rest is Inquisitor. 5th level is Gun/Pistol/Musket training, where you add your DEX to your damage.
My preference is still for the Musket Master over Pistolero. The 40' range gives you a lot more versatility (not to mention keeps you out of range of some of the bad guys (including those with reach).
As for hitting Touch AC... you'd be surprised how fast your attack bonus drops... you'll likely be using Deadly Aim, and probably Rapid Shot. A lot of the time you'll also be dealing with cover... and Gunslingers, even though they are a full BaB class, are a bit feat starved when compared to other classes.
At low levels, be prepared to go hand-to-hand more often, as your reload speed will be horrendous.
Finally, make sure you are tracking your ammunition, and pay attention to your low die rolls. With a musket, you misfire on a 1-2 (1-3 if using paper cartridges). Not declaring your misfires appropriately is cheating, whether or not the GM knows the rules. Don't be THAT guy. I think that not declaring their misfires is one of the things that give gunslingers a bad name.
But, in the long run, don't worry about spending money on your ammunition. Spend what you need, which will be in the area of 50-100gp per scenario (unless you need cold iron, or even worse, adamantine. The latter is the reason for Abundant Ammunition (buy oils!).
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You are going to get a lot of advice about how to make a uber-powerful death-cannon. Ignore it. It is easy to make really fun gunslingers with only a modicum of powergaming.
Thanks for that. I'm trying to avoid any super op seeing how really optimizing can lean to heavily on one trick and when it doesn't work it can really ruin your night.
Make what sounds fun. Gunslingers use a lot of feats, same as any other ranged fighter, but some of them are not as necessary as they are for archers. I have heard many people claim, for example, that gunslingers should have Precise Shot. It turns out that when you are targeting touch AC, this is much less of an issue. (My gunslinger/paladin) is level 6 and hits reliably without that feat.
Fun is the main goal. I'll probably avoid the Paladin route seeing as that is what i'm playing currently but i'll look into other classes to add some goodies.
Consider multiclassing! There are many class combos that work well with gunslinger. Much of the gunslinger's abilities are front-loaded (occur early in their level progression). This seems especially true for Mysterious Stranger. That means a dip in gunslinger is completely viable.
I plan on sticking for at least 5 levels in Gunslinger.
Lastly, try to ignore all the groans and exclamations of "not in my fantasy!" Those people probably aren't much fun regardless of which class you play.
Well... i'm usually one of those but...what the heck, shooting some one in the face with a pistol and being all Lee Van Kleef could be pretty badass.
the one thing to keep in mind is that gunslingers more than anyone need to keep good track of their ammo expenditures, as it accounts for a significant portion of their gold. (at last more than other classes). Just make sure you are ok with the bookkeeping.
This is going to be the biggest drag since i hate book keeping paper work but i'll just need to keep on my toes.
Anyone have any general advice/tips for the GS?
In general: pump dex. Everything after that is gravy. Stack +hit at the cost of damage, because the higher you go the more your to hit outpaces things touch ac.
you want a free action reload. You want a free action reload. Get an archtype that helps with the reload speed, and spend the gold on alchemical cartridges.
Point blank precise shot ASAP (because even hitting touch AC, a -8 shooting through the fighters overly large posterior into melee hurts)
Anything specific as far what is or is not allowed in PFS when it comes to the GS?No pepperboxes. No double hackbutts. Since the changes to weapon cords, going double pistol has recently become...problematic. Unless its against your vision of the character I'd highly advise going musket master.
Your guns count as magic items for fame and prestige, don't blow too many secondary missions.
A gunslinger is powerful enough that making some less than optimized choices can leave you with a powerful enough character, especially for PFS where the combats aren't uber deadly and skills are more useful then they might otherwise be.
Tell me about the gunslinger you have in your head.
I'd really like to be a scouty/perception type but silent and deadly(not gassy though). Get up close and personal, quick drawing and rapidly filling a mook full of lead. I envision him wielding a pistol and not a musket. Heavily leaning towards a Human, i was thinking of Tiefling with a tail but that seems as cheesy as the weapon cords. Hopefully you'll get a chance to DM for this guy or we can sit at a table together @ the October Country.
EDIT- Probably should have made all those posts in one all encompassing post instead of a bunch of quoted boxes. >.<|
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I had a fair bit of fun with a Monk - Pistolero, with the Feat "Deft Shootist Deed" which lets you reload and fire with out provoking AoO. It takes a few feats (which human helps with) to get it, but being in the middle of melee unleashing a hail of lead is fun.
You have to be lawful, but monks aren't too bad at sneaking, and you can forgo armor and get other nice monk bonuses with a 2 level dip. It might work with your character concept.
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I've been giving this some thought myself. One idea I've had is to make a multiclassed gunslinger/paladin based on well...Paladin from Have Gun Will Travel. I'm thinking of taking the Mysterious Stranger and Divine Hunter Archetypes. I like the Mysterious Stranger for reducing MAD and relying on just Charisma but hate losing the AC bonus. I think the Divine Hunter is ok, I don't mind losing heavy armor for Precise Shot. I'm assuming by the text for Smite Evil that I can smite with a ranged weapon?
Well... As to what Slartibart was saying, i just had a thought on my walk home from work.
I'm guessing it would be doable,hellishly tough on feats though,but how about a Tiefling Pistolero(5)/Monk(?) based on Hellboy. I mean the Pathfinder Society is kinda/sorta like the BPRD in a way. It would be pretty fun to be in melee and punch something in the face with my Big ol'hellfist and then blast them dead with my [Boom Stick.
Any helpful thoughts for this type of build?
I can get DEX/INT which could give me some wiggle room to put points into Wisdom and the -2CHA isn't a real killer. Hellboy was sorta charming in his own way but also cantankerous at times. Plus i could get a prehensile tail for the fun of it.
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I've been giving this some thought myself. One idea I've had is to make a multiclassed gunslinger/paladin based on well...Paladin from Have Gun Will Travel. I'm thinking of taking the Mysterious Stranger and Divine Hunter Archetypes. I like the Mysterious Stranger for reducing MAD and relying on just Charisma but hate losing the AC bonus. ... I'm assuming by the text for Smite Evil that I can smite with a ranged weapon?
That is EXACTLY what Sparrow Sundance (my mysterious stranger/paladin) is based on. She even has cards that she hands out which say "Have gun. Will travel."
Yes, you can smite with a ranged weapon. It is so much fun!
"Paladin, paladin, where do you roam? ... "
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I just checked the Additional Resources, and it says Culverin and Double Hackbut are not allowed,but from what I see, the Pepperbox is legal.
That being said I have to agree with BNW that getting free action reloads is a must. A pistol with Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges, or a Musket Master with Alchemical Cartridges should do the trick, and in the long run is more reliable than a Pepperbox
Double Barrel Pistols are getting a bad rap right now. The ability to take a -4 to hit to double the number or attacks in a round is powerful, especially since it stacks with Rapid Shop to get an extra attack at full BAB -2. Your hit numbers suck, but you are hitting touch ACs, and sheer volume of fire helps, but will potentially slowing down your turn to a crawl as you resolve 6 attacks to everyone else's two attacks. Carefully weigh the benefits and costs of buying a double barreled weapon.
Anyone who is repeatedly pulling both triggers at once are due for a nasty surprise when the both barrels misfire causing the weapon to explode.
I'd really like to be a scouty/perception type but silent and deadly(not gassy though).
You get perception as a class skill, so all you would need to sneak is the highlander trait.
I've seen some good Ninja/mysterious stranger builds for more sneaky ability. High charisma = invisibility, invisbility + ranged touch= you're shooting against an ac of 10 90% of the time.
Get up close and personal, quick drawing and rapidly filling a mook full of lead. I envision him wielding a pistol and not a musket. Heavily leaning towards a Human, i was thinking of Tiefling with a tail but that seems as cheesy as the weapon cords.
The tail is only cheesy for dual pistols. If you want to cutlass and pistol it i don't think anyone's going to complain.
Hopefully you'll get a chance to DM for this guy or we can sit at a table together @ the October Country.
Transportation issues should be resolved soon, then i can get back to keeeling ya'll...
huh.. i could have sworn pepperboxes were banned... That makes one pistol +quickdraw a sword pretty viable, with or without a tail.
I'm going to see what i can put together over the next few days and then i'll post for critique. Outside that thanks for all the help.
try not to annoy the GM with your gunslinger. Have your powerful moments, but dont make it seem like the gunslinger is overpowered
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Okay, a few things to remember from what I've learned (and seen others do) with Gunslingers.
-Build a concept of how you fight early on, but don't be set in stone on it. Most gunslingers of either type are 'run and gun' types. That is shoot and move, shoot and move. Pistol types need to be acutely aware of their 20' increment. Do not be afraid to shoot outside your first range increment though. I fought at least two entire encounters outside my MM's 40' range increment in Race for the Runecarved key.
-Be aware of what your primary weapon is. IE. The one rapid reload applies to.
-Be aware and knowledgable of the mechanics of gunslinging. Some GMs don't like it because it's not something they are familiar with. Bookmark your books and be up on the latest erratta and resources updates. You're bringing the PC to the table, help make it a smooth game by knowing your mechanics.
-Plan out your build. Even if you don't make a cheese weasel multiweapon monster you need to realize that a gunslinger is feat intensive. But that doesn't mean you'll be solely built around it. My MM has Skill Focus (Perception) and Eclectic among her feats, and I value them greatly despite some folks telling me they are 'wasteful'. Not to mention 'wasting' a feat to get all guns and not just 2h guns.
-Be prepared to fix your gun. Stock up on scrolls of make whole, and make friends with casters.
-Be diligent in accounting. TRACK your AMMO AND GRIT diligently. Most complaints I've heard is 'ammo accounting is shady with some gunslingers'. I have nearly run out of ammo before.
-If you're multiclassing, know that 5th level is the 'pinch point' for where dps with a gun starts to really take off.
-If you are like MOST gunslingers and typically deadly aim everything, remind your dm from time to time. Ditto for vital strike.
-There are several classes with awesome synergy. I like the Grenadier Alchemist myself. (with Cat's Grace, Dex Mutagen I can get up some awesome dex scores for the final fights)
-Remind the GM on a crit/kill that you get grit back. Something most folks forget. A simple 'crit gets me a grit' is all that is needed.
-Be aware of racial traits for favored class. Kyrie has an extra grit point because of it.
-Look for other roles to help out.. like skill assists, and such. Alchemical weapons are ranged touch too.
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Gotta agree with you Thomas! Great set of posts there. I can admit that I sometimes forget to remind GMs that I am using Deadly Aim... have to remember to declare that more often.
As for Jayne Munny, I guess I have "wasted" some feats as well (such as Alertness, but it really helps with his Inquisitor abilities (+20 Perception and +17 Sense Motive at level 10... and Sense Motive is NOT maxed out!)
Don't be afraid to use your grit (if you have only 1, then I recommend getting Extra Grit. Munny now has 5 Grit, which has come in handy a few times!)
Remember that Deadeye take 1 grit per range band per shot. I've forgotten this a couple of times, but never ran out of grit doing it (as I said, having 5 is useful!). In the first encounter of Elven Entanglement, I blew through 4 grit in one round (hasted, rapid attacking). Would have used a spell to increase my range by 10' had I the time, but if I had, we all may have died!
Deadeye (Ex): At 1st level, the gunslinger can resolve an attack against touch AC instead of normal AC when firing beyond her firearm's first range increment. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point per range increment beyond the first. The gunslinger still takes the –2 penalty on attack rolls for each range increment beyond the first when she performs this deed.
I also am more than a bit anal about my ammo tracking. I've had a sheet to track almost as long as I have had the character. For this, the ITS actually helps (but now I buy my ammo in lots of 25 or 50). I agree, this is essential. I've also come close to running out of ammunution!
I am so anal about this that I bought an Adventurer's Sash to explain how I keep 8-9 different types of ammunition separate!
- Cold Iron bullets
- Silver bullets
- Adamantine bullets
- ghost salted cold iron bullets
- normal paper carts
- cold iron paper carts
- silver paper carts
- adamantine paper carts
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Just recently got my first Pathfinder Society character, a Plumekith (variant Aasimar Heritage granting DEX/WIS +2 and See Invisibility for a Spell-Like Ability) Gunslinger, to level 12 (with plans on running Eyes of Ten before it goes away). Here's what I've learned about Gunslingers along the way:
-You will have to keep track of all your ammunition, so I recommend a sheet of paper just for tracking ammo usage per session. Put the date of the session and mark a tally for each shot fired. Very useful to make sure that you don't run out of ammunition.
-Craft (Alchemy) requires 1 rank in order to get a discount on buying your ammunition supplies. If it will fit your character idea, invest in it more and use it for Day Jobs and identifying that random potion or poison you come across.
-I purchase Alchemical Paper Cartridges in lots of 10 at 6gp/each. That's 60gp a bundle (Individual ammunition costs can be found here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2prqq?Cost-of-Alchemical-Cartridges-of-Special# 5 ). At most, I've used 30 shots in a single session, and that wasn't a module, but a single scenario. This will get expensive.
- Watch your DR. Firearms count as both Bludgeoning and Piercing. Despite that, strong monsters with higher level DR can still shrug off most of your weapon damage. This is where a feat such as Clustered Shots (add together the damage from all your shots that hit before applying DR) is useful, since you apply DR only once instead of for each bullet.
- Most definitely plan your feats ahead of time. Some of the fun ones have prerequisites you might not normally take. Example: I wasn't going to take Rapid Shot (1 extra attack at highest BAB-2). It is a prerequisite for Snap Shot, which allows me to threaten AoO within 5ft using a firearm. Come to find out, I needed Rapid Shot as a prerequisite for Snap Shot.
- Likewise, plan your gear and weapon upgrades ahead of time. Endless Bandolier is excellent when you can purchase it (holds up to 60 rounds of ammunition, and has pockets you can place muskets and such in. It's basically a Gunslinger's Handy Haversack). Upgrades will vary depending on your playstyle and firearm you choose. I went Pistolero and have thus far upgraded my pistol into a +3 Planar Pistol of Distance (increases range increment from 20ft to 40ft, and completely ignores 5 points of DR against Extraplanar Outsiders. Was chosen in preparation for season 5).
- While you're tracking your ammunition, keep an eye on your Grit and what Deeds you have available. Several times, I noticed a Deed I could have used to make a fight easier, but didn't know I had it until after the fact. Grit can come back fairly easy, but I've seen a general consensus to always leave 1 point in your Pool for the Quick Clear deed (allowing you to "fix" your firearm should it become Broken due to a Misfire).
- Misfire is annoying, but does happen. Make a note somewhere on your character sheet listing your base misfire chance, and the increased chance if you've already misfired once before. If you decide to use Alchemical Cartridges, those also increase your misfire chance, but once you gain Gun Training (at Gunslinger level 5), your second misfire chance increases by 2 instead of 4.
- As has been said before, you're shooting against Touch AC, which excludes Armor and Shields (including Natural Armor). For most enemies, this is much easier to hit, but keep an eye on more dexterous mobs. Often times, they have a Touch AC comparable to their normal AC, which can make a gunslinger feel less effective. Make sure to pay attention in combat about such things. If you come across such an enemy, pick something else to target and let your party members handle it, if you can.
- From a GM perspective, don't try and cheese things too much. Some find gunslingers annoying as written (Fighter HD and BAB, with 2 Good saves, hitting against Touch AC, and neat tricks via Deeds) and others won't even allow them in a non-Society game because of those and "flavor" reasons. Check with the DM you're going to be gaming with mostly to make sure things are good.
Build notes:
Since you will need both DEX and WIS on a Gunslinger (or DEX and CHA if you make a Mysterious Stranger), and you're already looking at Tieflings, see if you can find a copy of Blood of Fiends. There's a heritage called "Asura-Spawn (Faultspawn)" that grants +2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 INT. For the Mysterious Stranger, there is Div-Spawn/Spitespawn with DEX/CHA +2, INT -2, and the Rakshasa-Spawn/Beastbrood with DEX/CHA +2, and WIS -2. For now, they are fully legal options in Society, but you must have a copy of the book or .pdf available. For the Hellboy Tiefling Gunslinger/Monk, I'd recommend the Asura-Spawn as you will want the WIS bump for your Monk abilities.
Check out the feat "Opening Volley," as well, which gives you a +4 bonus to hit with a melee attack if you make a successful hit using a ranged attack.
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(with plans on running Eyes of Ten before it goes away)Apologies for being off-topic, but has it been confirmed somewhere that Eyes of the Ten is being retired? I *just* bought the PDFs on sale, with the intention of running them in the near future.
It's something I've heard a couple times, but I can't find a source on this forum. :\
WOW! Thanks to everyone posting here for all the help. I definitely don't want to "cheese, cheat or steal the show" at any table i sit at so a lot of the recommendations will come in handy.
Quick question on the MCing. If i do stick with Asura -Spawn Tiefling(Hellboy) plan, how many levels should i go with and when? I'm thinking i'll go Gunslinger 1 then Monk @2 then back to Gunslinger.
Any other/better options? While it could be cool probably not going Paladin.
Ranger(Urban or Trapper/Freebooter) maybe for two levels. Good saves, skills, BAB progression and a bonus feat.
Fighter for the feats and BAB progression.
Alchemist perhaps.
Maybe for my first Gunslinger i just go for a straight Human or Tiefling or even Azata-blooded Aasimar Mysterious stranger.
I got a ton of work to do but i think i may have found something new in this game to keep me excited with for a while. I can foresee my next few characters being Gunslingers and each being new and entertaining.
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Someone else said it, and I'm inclined to agree: Go with 5 levels of Gunslinger (Pistolero) so you get DEX to damage. I do know someone, however, that just took 1 level of gunslinger (Musket Master) on their summoner because they wanted to be able to use a gun from the back of their flying eidolon. :/
As far as what class to take first, decide what you'll have the most levels in, and take that first. RAW states that your Favored Class bonus is determined by your level 1 class, so you'll get the bigger benefit by doing it that way.
The Gunslinger/Paladin MC build is just a way to get around the banning of the "Holy Gun" Paladin archetype, but there's decent synergy between a a Paladin and a Mysterious Stranger, since most of their things will run off Charisma. You'd have to be careful, though, and wear armor that will get you the highest DEX bonus to AC.
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Anyone who is repeatedly pulling both triggers at once are due for a nasty surprise when the both barrels misfire causing the weapon to explode.
My ruling on this has been somewhat different. As I read the rules, if you fire a pistol with the broken condition and it misfires the weapon explodes; since both barrels are being fired at the same time, the weapon does not have a the broken condition, and therefore does not explode.
Another interesting example was when I fired both barrels and misfired on the first one I was resolving. When I rolled to hit with the second barrel I rolled within the misfire range if my weapon now had the broken condition, however, since the attacks were simultaneous, the weapon was not yet broken, and did not misfire. It took us more time than it should of to work out the sequence, but I think that is the correct reading of the rules.
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As far as what class to take first, decide what you'll have the most levels in, and take that first. RAW states that your Favored Class bonus is determined by your level 1 class, so you'll get the bigger benefit by doing it that way.
I don't believe that's true. You have to *choose* your Favored Class at first level, but it doesn't have to be the same as the actual class that you take at first level.
What are folks thoughts on a single level dip in cleric. I get access to some spells, domains and +will save. I'm not to worried about channeling but getting the ability to use a cure light wounds wand is nice. Maybe Travel or Feather. Or better yet a 2 level dip into Inquisitor which may sorta fit the whole "Hellboy" monster fighter/BPRD feel. Spell Breaker and Witch Hunter Archetypes look cool.
So if you're me and building a divine hunter paladin/mysterious stranger gunslinger/preacher inquisitor because of another player's whimsical idea, should I go paladin 6/gunslinger 1/inquisitor 5, or paladin 2/gunslinger 5/inquisitor 5? The character is currently at two levels of paladin and is taking a gunslinger level next, followed by the inquisitor levels. The idea is to make a different kind of switch-hitter: start the combat at long range with the bow, close in, then switch to the gun when inside the first range increment and fire in some smite and/or bane, switching back to the bow in case of misfire.
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cheatHello! I am going to point out that making a strong character isn't cheating, please don't imply that others who do are.
I don't know if you really deserve a response to this but here it goes anyways. My "cheese,cheat,steal the show" comment was made to echo other sentiments in this thread and in others i read. RAW may make it so i can play reload shenanigans with twin double barreled pistols and a Tiefling Tail but that doesn't make it cheesy, IMHO. Not properly recording Grit/Crits and Ammo IS cheating, as all would agree. Not you apparently so go ahead and cheat your tables all you want i guess. And...being a limelight hogger and show dominator is no fun for anyone except me so i'd like to avoid that for all involved.
Strong characters are fine if you have one then play on friend-o. Otherwise fixating on a misquoted comment makes one wonder...
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Ezrider23: You cannot go wrong with a spellbreaker inquisitor. Even for just a dip or two.
At 1st level, a Spellbreaker is able to stand strong against magical effects that seek to control, compel, or persuade her. The Spellbreaker rolls twice and takes the best result when making a Will saving throw against a mind-affecting effect.
This is flat-out amazing. I can't believe I don't see more people rolling Spellbreakers in my area. Actually, I think the only one I've ever seen in PFS has been my own.
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You really really want 5 levels of gunslinger, otherwise guns are totally useless.
I would probably either focus on inquisitor or paladin, not both, but regardless you need 5 gunslinger levels
Do not take the mysterious stranger archetype, losing quick clear is the worst possible thing to lose.
I could not disagree more. My mysterious stranger 1/paladin 4/fighter 1 is extremely effective. To the point that I have to consciously rein her in.*
She does not have quick clear. Instead she has the Quick Draw feat.
She does not add Dex to damage. Instead, she adds Cha, and when smiting she adds Cha to her attack roll and her paladin level to damage.
Here is her attack at 6th level:
Ranged focused shot, smite, point-blank, deadly aim +1 merciful pistol +14/+9 touch (1d8+16/x4 plus 1d6 nonlethal, 20 ft., misfire 1-2)
Now I am aware there are gunslingers with more impressive damage, but to imply that mine is totally useless is laughable.
*She prefers to not use her guns if she can help it. She always keeps them holstered until after a fight has started. She really only uses them against the targets of her smite, which she can use twice now at this point.
A gunslinger who doesn't use guns defeats the point of a gunslinger, quick clear is fantastic because misfire sucks, charisma to damage is limited while dex is full time and also your attack stat... blahblahblah.
I don't think he was saying your specific gunslinger was useless, but that guns are pretty sub-par unless you get a modifier to the damage. That's something deadly aim and gunslinger training help, and happens to be true of most weapons.
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My reasoning for taking Mysterious Stranger was my character having Wis 12 and Cha 16. Wis 12 is enough to get the spell levels a fifth-level inquisitor will get, and I won't be using anything with DCs in any case. I'm going for the bane, not for the spellcasting ability. And if I have a misfire, I'm just going to drop the gun and either go back to the bow or draw a melee weapon using Quick Draw, which I will take at level 3 or 5.
I did also consider Spellbreaker as the inquisitor archetype, but I felt it was a little weird for an inquisitor/paladin of Ragathiel to take that archetype, and their saves will be pretty good in any case due to the paladin levels.
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A gunslinger who doesn't use guns defeats the point of a gunslinger, quick clear is fantastic because misfire sucks, charisma to damage is limited while dex is full time and also your attack stat... blahblahblah.
I don't think he was saying your specific gunslinger was useless, but that guns are pretty sub-par unless you get a modifier to the damage. That's something deadly aim and gunslinger training help, and happens to be true of most weapons.
You are right. When I'm not smiting, the attack is only
Ranged focused shot, point-blank, deadly aim +1 merciful pistol +8/+3 touch (1d8+12/x4 plus 1d6 nonlethal, 20ft., misfire 1-2)
Terrible. *eyeroll*
My gunslinger is powerful enough that I can dominate every encounter if I wanted to. I don't. If I dominate an encounter early on in a scenario, then I put my guns away and let other people at the table shine for a while.
I really am enjoying these blanket general statements you guys are making.
I really am enjoying these blanket general statements you guys are making.
Sarcastic reciprocal statement to you too!
But I didn't say anything about your gunslinger and I'm sure it works, just making general statements about guns and gunslinger. Quick clear is great for misfire and its good to have those static to damage/attack modifiers from your attributes.
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DPS aside, here are a few things that my mysterious stranger/paladin has that a musket master 6 lacks:
Fort +14, Ref +11, Will +8
Immune fear, disease
lessor restoration (2/day)
Lay on Hands (2d6, 7/day)
Channel Positive Energy
Diplomacy +13, Intimidate +13
The ability to use wands of healing without relying on a skill check.
What she gave up was a few crappy deeds, and a Dodge bonus to AC. (She doesn't get to add Dex to damage, but as I said above, she adds +6 from Cha instead and against 2 creatures per day another +4 from paladin levels.)
She does not have quick clear. Instead she has the Quick Draw feat.
So you're saying you just carry lots of backup guns for when you misfire? That sounds really expensive. And what do you do if you have a run of bad luck and all of your guns have misfired? You don't always have an hour to sit down and fix it.
I have thought of making a Mysterious Stranger, but that part always gave me pause. Has it not been an issue for you?
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She does not have quick clear. Instead she has the Quick Draw feat.So you're saying you just carry lots of backup guns for when you misfire? That sounds really expensive. And what do you do if you have a run of bad luck and all of your guns have misfired? You don't always have an hour to sit down and fix it.
I have thought of making a Mysterious Stranger, but that part always gave me pause. Has it not been an issue for you?
She has 3 guns (what else would she spend her money on? She's a gun nut. Actually, she is saving for a fourth, just because she wants a coat pistol because they are "purdy".)
Most tables have a spellcaster or two who are happy to drop a 0th-level spell slot for mending. 10 min. If she were to be particularly unlucky and lose all three guns (hasn't happened yet), she has other abilities she can fall back on. Since she only plans on using her guns on foes she is smiting, the probability that she loses all three guns in one session is pretty small. Besides, she is a paladin, so her sword is still pretty effective.
Ezrider23: You cannot go wrong with a spellbreaker inquisitor. Even for just a dip or two.
At 1st level, a Spellbreaker is able to stand strong against magical effects that seek to control, compel, or persuade her. The Spellbreaker rolls twice and takes the best result when making a Will saving throw against a mind-affecting effect.This is flat-out amazing. I can't believe I don't see more people rolling Spellbreakers in my area. Actually, I think the only one I've ever seen in PFS has been my own.
Yes, i'm pretty sure this is where i'm going with my Gunslinger. I really like the 2 level dip from Inquisitor. Just need to grab Blood of Fiends for some of the bloodline variants and go DEX/WIS.
I think i'll get my dips out of the way early.
Level 1 Gunslinger(Pistolero).
Level 2(1) Inquisitor(Spellbreaker).
Level 3(2) Inquisitor.
Then finish out as a Gunslinger.
Traits?
1. Highlander for Stealth.
2. ? Reactionary is okay for the initiative or perhaps indomitable faith for a +1 trait bonus to will saves.
Feats?
1.(GS 1/IN 0) 1-Rapid Reload
2.(GS 1/IN 1) None
3.(GS 1/IN 2) 2-Point Blank Shot
4.(GS 2/IN 2) None
5.(GS 3/IN 2) 3-Presise Shot
6.(GS 4/IN 2) GS bonus Feat (Combat or Grit?)=Deadly Aim?
7.(GS 5/IN 2) 4- Rapid Shot?
8.(GS 6/IN 2) None
9.(GS 7/IN 2) 5- ?
10.(GS 8/IN 2) GS Bonus Feat (Combat or Grit?)= ?
11.(GS 9/IN 2)6- ?
Wow it is really tough to get any feat space. I would hate to throw in a Fighter level and a race change to Human.
-Option #2-
1st and 2nd level Human Archery Lore Warden
3rd level Human Pistolero Gubslinger
4th and 5th level Human Inquisitor of ?
6th - 11th level Human Pistolero Gunslinger
That is a LONG time to wait for precise shot.
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Ranged focused shot, point-blank, deadly aim +1 merciful pistol +8/+3 touch (1d8+12/x4 plus 1d6 nonlethal, 20ft., misfire 1-2)
Because I'm genuinely interested: where does the +12 damage come from? I've got +4 from deadly aim, +1 from magic, +1 from PBS (as I assume you're within 20 ft.)...
And if you're using the merciful quality, that's all non-lethal, correct?
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Here are my bonuses to attack:
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+6 BAB
+2 Dex
+1 Point-Blank Shot
+1 enhancement bonus to pistol
-2 Deadly Aim
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+8 TOTAL
Here are my bonuses to damage:
+1 enhancement bonus to pistol
+6 Cha bonus from Focused Shot (Mysterious Stranger deed, usable 6 rounds/day)
+1 Point-Blank Shot
+4 Deadly Aim
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+12 TOTAL
All of it is nonlethal, yes.
That is a LONG time to wait for precise shot.
Okay and i agree. How to fix? Options are...
#1. Be a human and take Rapid Reload and PBS @ 1st then grab Precise at 3rd.#2. Be a human and start out as a Fighter(LW) and snatch PBS/Precise and Rapid Reload @ 1st. Nothing wrong with waiting three scenarios before getting a level in Gunslinger.
#3. Be a Human and start out as a Zen Archer Monk. This might be better than Fighter just based on the skills/saves and ability to threaten with a punch via unarmed strike. I could get all three feats @1st this way also.
#4. Be a Human Musket Master and grab all three feats @1st. An option i guess just for the free Rapid Reload. Not how i envision him though.
OR
#5. Be a Tiefling in any of the above scenarios and be down a feat for each.
Losing out on that Human BF is a real strain for this class, and others i guess. Going somewhere around six scenarios with this guy before getting Precise Shot is a tough pill to swallow.