"Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation," was surely intended to mean that they cannot bring back from the dead creatures who died of those things.
I think that's probably what they meant, but what it actually means is that they can't recover HP but don't die. So they lie there eternally drowned or starved until someone applies some regular healing and clears their lungs of water or gives them some food.
I could have sworn I'd read about trolls dying from drowning in some bit of lore.Apart from lore, it's written straight on their official ecology.
A troll who doesn't get enough to eat over the course of a few days loses its regeneration and becomes vulnerable, though a single adequate meal will bring it back into fighting trim, and starvation itself is a common cause of death for trolls. Drowning a troll is also effective. The two most common ways to negate a troll's regeneration...Now, to translate that into gameplay, checking the environmental rules for starvation, thirst, suffocation, drowning... all of them share the common fact that you must make CON checks at specific intervals. I'd say regeneration stops when that check is finally failed, and doesn't resume until the troll "fixes" the issue (for starvation, ecology states Troll has to eat, so for thirst it would be drink something, and for suffocation and drowning would be to breathe fresh air).
Whether this only works only for trolls or other creatures is left at GM's choice. But I'd say that if a creature has to breathe, or feed, or drink... then the associated environmental effect would also apply tho the creature.
That was it! Thanks. That's been driving me crazy trying to remember where I read that.
So, the starving troll, whose regeneration is shut down, can be chopped to Death now, since he is no longer regenerating, and thus no longer immune to death. Easier with the drowned one, since he is unconscious. Actually, the drowned troll is now just a standard, if large, meal for the fishies.
Also, since starvation shuts down regeneration and its immunity to death, continued starvation will eventually just outright kill the troll.
The dirtiest way I've ever offed a troll was with summoned Stirges draining Con. Wanna guess how many stirges a Monster Summoning 3 calls?
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Ofcourse the only real way to get rid of a troll is to ignore them or block them.
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So you starve the troll for attention?
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Ofcourse the only real way to get rid of a troll is to ignore them or block them.
Effectively starving them. ; )
Edit:. Ninja'd!
If you cut out a troll's stomach, does he die? Of starvation, if nothing else?
(I'm guessing this would be effective with both Bestiary trolls and internet trolls.)
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If you cut out a troll's stomach, does he die? Of starvation, if nothing else?
(I'm guessing this would be effective with both Bestiary trolls and internet trolls.)
I am pretty sure it would work just fine on internet trolls. I think a regular trolls stomach would just grow back.
I think in the fluff it does say that starvation is the number one killer of trolls.
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Assuming that the troll is currently well fed, the stomach should grow back before starvation occurs. Now if the troll is on the edge, this could throw it over I suppose.
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I always treated non-lethal as being automatically healed (with regeneration) whenever the constant damage from it stopped. so say death from dehydration if you dunk em in water now there back at full. I think it was a hold over from an earlier edition. I need to look up how non-lethal is handled now.
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There is no rules difference between "curing" hit points, "healing" hit points, "restoring" hit points, and so on. The words are synonymous in this regard.
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Since this the Rules Forum, the Rule.
Regeneration (Ex)
A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally.
A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.
Format: regeneration 5 (fire, acid); Location: hp.
For all the times I have looked at this I totally missed this. Nowhere does it say you actually have to successfully attack or damage the critter to shut down the regeneration, you only have to attack. Thus, a common troll that has somehow gained fire and acid immunity will still have it's regeneration shut down for a round by a guy swinging a torch. Now Torchy is only going to be doing club damage, so is in trouble, but still....
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*spit take*
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TA,
Once you say you are throwing the torch into your bedroom closet, assuming the troll isn't actually in your closet, would countermand your original statement you are attacking the troll.
I should point out, just in case, you shouldn't hang around in other people's closets, but if it your own closet, your call. ^-^
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i think there's a rule or faq that say that if you are immune to a type of damage or it miss you, you do not suffer the consequence of said attack.
There's the Ice Tomb FAQ:
The general assumption for effects is if the creature negates the damage from the effect, the creature isn't subject to additional effects from that attack (such as DR negating the damage from a poisoned weapon, which means the creature isn't subject to the poison). Therefore, a cold-immune creature takes no damage from the hex and can't be imprisoned by it.
But in this case I think the idea that if an attack misses you do not suffer the effect of the attack is kind of obvious?
Player: "I attack. I roll a 3."
GM: "You miss."
Player: "I do 17 damage, unless you can show me a rule saying attacks that miss don't do anything."
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Thus, a common troll that has somehow gained fire and acid immunity will still have it's regeneration shut down for a round by a guy swinging a torch. Now Torchy is only going to be doing club damage, so is in trouble, but still....
Immunity (Ex or Su)
A creature with immunities takes no damage from listed sources. Immunities can also apply to afflictions, conditions, spells (based on school, level, or save type), and other effects. A creature that is immune does not suffer from these effects, or any secondary effects that are triggered due to an immune effect.
Emphasis mine.
Our group took SKR advice and replaced Immune with appropriate (?) DR, would that change with it?
The previously quoted ice tomb FAQ actually covers that as well: the assumption is that if there is no damage dealt, there is no secondary effect.
This is not, technically, RAW (even though it is FAQ), so... blah, blah, table variation.
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I must point out, that this is NOT a secondary effect from taking damage, since no damage has to be taken. The FAQ does not apply here.
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I must point out, that this is NOT a secondary effect from taking damage, since no damage has to be taken. The FAQ does not apply here.
The immunity to related effects is a separate sentence, distinct from and not dependent upon damage prevention.
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Since it clearly references the first sentence, I have to disagree that it is a standalone, separate thought.
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Since it clearly references the first sentence, I have to disagree that it is a standalone, separate thought.
The rules contain two distinct statements:
- A creature takes no damage from listed sources.
- Immunities can also apply to afflictions, conditions, spells (based on school, level, or save type), and other effects.
The second statement has no caveats. It does not state the immunity is applied only to effects where the damage is prevented. the third sentences expounds up and reinforces the second, but adds no additional conditions.
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Since this the Rules Forum, the Rule.
For all the times I have looked at this I totally missed this. Nowhere does it say you actually have to successfully attack or damage the critter to shut down the regeneration, you only have to attack. Thus, a common troll that has somehow gained fire and acid immunity will still have it's regeneration shut down for a round by a guy swinging a torch. Now Torchy is only going to be doing club damage, so is in trouble, but still....Regeneration (Ex)
A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally.
A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.
Format: regeneration 5 (fire, acid); Location: hp.
By this reasoning, a troll can walk through lava (or a dwarven forge, or the party campfire, etc) and not have its regeneration shut down, because it choosing to walk through lava is not an attack against it.
Do you believe this (troll regen not being hurt by lava) to be the case by RAI or RAW?
If my attack misses does it still turn off regen? If my attack misses because the troll has mirror image and I hit an image and not the troll does it turn off regen? If the troll has blink and is on the ethereal plane when I attack does it lose regen?
If the invisible wizard casts fireball at the troll it turns off regen, and the wizard is now visible. But if the invisible wizard pulls the lever that dumps boiling oil on the troll the wizard does not lose invisibility, and the troll regenerates happily because
Causing harm indirectly is not an attack.
You are of course free to read the rules in an overly pedantic fashion if you want to, I just want to make sure you are aware of what such a pedantic reading will lead to.
Oh, also, though it's different from RAW, canonically, a bunch of trolls drowned to death in a part of the first AP that players never really get to hear about.
Well, I sure hope this could get clarified before a second edition of the game comes up. It has over 100 faq requests already.
I agree.