The Anti-Party Party (or Two Can Play at That Game)

[Oserath]

I'm currently DMing a Rise of the Runelords campaign and so far my party has had a pretty easy time tearing through most combats. We are almost done the third book at this point. I'm planning to ambush the party with an evil party while they travel before the fourth book.

I was curious if any DMs had much experience with throwing a rival party against your PCs. I also will gladly take opinions about how to combat them.

The PCs:

Spoiler:

Half-elf Ranger 9/ Rogue 1: Mobile weapons platform. Favored enemies are giants and undead.
Half-Orc Oracle (Metal) 8/ Paladin 2: Throws around big hits with an Earth Breaker and Power Attack. Tends to like to buff before fights. Pretty mobile for a heavy armored character (40 ft.).
Dwarf Fighter 10: Axe and Board. Working his way toward TWF monstrousness. Very high AC (34+).
Aasimar Paladin 10: Has been using a falchion or greatsword for huge hits, but may start using sword and board. Has several Smites per day.
Aasimar Bard 8: Orc's cohort. Has both Good Hope and Haste, along with Inspire Courage +3. Turns the party into complete meat grinders with great action economy.

My current planned evil party: (I'm planning on running them at a level below the PCs)

Spoiler:

Halfling Sorcerer 1/ Admixture Evoker 8: Has crossblooded dip for maximal electric damage. Also has 3 Magic Missiles prepared with a Lesser Toppling Rod. Has used up half of her 4th level spells on Scrying and Lesser Age Resistance.
Dwarf Martial Artist 9: Fast, Improved Trip. Currently using a Human-Bane AoMF. I'm considering changing that, since it will affect the Oracle, Ranger, and Paladin (Scion of Humanity) by my understanding. He also has Deflect Arrows and Crane Wing, which should allow him to shrug off the hardest hits each round (Furious focused Power Attacks, and Manyshots).
Hobgoblin Skirmisher 6/ Horizon Walker 3: Sword and board style, 40 ft. move speed (Plains terrain dominance/mastery). Favored enemy dwarves +4, humans +2. Has the skirmisher trick Surprise Shift. Has Missile Shield, which basically amounts to Deflect Arrows.
Human Vampire Antipaladin 8: Has three Smite Goods to use, most likely against the two paladins and the ranger, as they can get past his DR. Has the Fiendish Boon with his weapon (a +1 Nodachi, that he can make Keen or Unholy). He also has Charge Through and Greater Overrun, his preferred tactic being to charge past the frontline and engage the next target/flank the frontliners.

I think this party is pretty strong against my PCs. I have a few concerns about giving the PCs a pile of gear (since each evil character has 10.5K in wealth). To handle that, and to increase the challenge, I have given the evil party a lot of scrolls/potions that they will use to prebuff. These potions include relevant stat-boosters (bull's strength, etc), barkskins (+4), and shields of faith (also +4). Since they are scrying the PCs, they should be able to give themselves time for these prebuffs.

I'm not sure if these buffs are inappropriate or not. Given the fact that my PCs hit buffed numbers around +20 or greater to hit, I'm inclined to make the evil party a bit more durable.

I know this is a lot of things to discuss, but feel free to critique or offer suggestions for any of it, especially if you've ever done stuff like this against your own PCs.

Thanks

[Tels]

See the second half of this post with Aleoth, Crog, Kotan, and Taldian. They may be all you need to really put a hurt on the party

[Edit] Wow, total fail. Forgot to actually link to the post mentioned. Doh!

[Douglas Muir 406]

1) Your PCs are levels 10/10/10/10 and a level 8 cohort. The NPC party is 9/9/9/8. Unless you carefully optimize the enemy party, or give them some advantage of terrain, I suspect your PCs will rip through them pretty readily.

2) Here's a general observation: in combat, GMs have the strategic edge, but PCs have the tactical edge. What does that mean? Well, you can set up the combat -- the enemies, the terrain. But once it actually starts, it's your single brain against four of theirs, and they'll almost always come up with unexpected tactics and surprises for you.

Doug M.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Now a general question: what do you want these guys to *be*? What function do they serve?

If it's just a challenging encounter, that's fine. (Though, note that there are easier ways to set up challenging encounters than designing 9th level NPCs from scratch.) But if you want them to be recurring villains, or at least interesting and challenging antagonists, then you need to put a bit of work into it.

PFRPG combat tends to have two clearly defined outcomes -- you win or you lose. If the PCs win, they'll kill your guys and take their stuff and that's that. So you need to put some thought into how you can have these guys fight the PCs more than once. Some possibilities:

1) Give Team Evil an initial win. There are a variety of ways to do this. Here's a personal favorite: split the party. Experienced players will be shy of this, but with a little effort you can often trick or seduce them into it. Then it's just 2 or 3 PCs versus all of Team Evil.

2) Smackdown, not death. Have Team Evil win but not *kill* the PCs. (Of course, at 10th level killing them is a nuisance more than a threat. Still, 5000 gp and you can't play until the party finds a 9th level cleric is nothing to sneeze at.) They may just beat them up and take their stuff (which, for many players, is worse than death.)

3) Rematch. Oooh, it's so satisfying when you get your own back. Trust me, your players will LOVE beating these guys if they've already lost to them once or twice already.

But then, of course, you make sure that one or two of them get away. Let the PCs have the satisfaction of killing most of them, but say that the vampire floats off in gaseous form, or the halfling poofs away with Teleport.

Doug M.

[Spook205]

A ranger, fighter, bard, paladin and oracle?

...I guess it works for Runelords with its focus on giants, but they seem to have severe and I mean severe crowd control problems.

Frankly, I'd try to glut them with modererately low level folks being buffed by a bard or cleric (like 8 level 7s and 20-30 CR 1/2s backed by a level 9 or something). Goblins might work for that. Mounted warg knights backed up by gropos goblins who exist solely to mire the heroes.

[Oserath]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

1) Your PCs are levels 10/10/10/10 and a level 8 cohort. The NPC party is 9/9/9/8. Unless you carefully optimize the enemy party, or give them some advantage of terrain, I suspect your PCs will rip through them pretty readily.

2) Here's a general observation: in combat, GMs have the strategic edge, but PCs have the tactical edge. What does that mean? Well, you can set up the combat -- the enemies, the terrain. But once it actually starts, it's your single brain against four of theirs, and they'll almost always come up with unexpected tactics and surprises for you.

Doug M.

I realize that the PCs are a higher level, that's part of the reason for spending a good portion of the evil party's wealth on temporary buffs. Most of our PCs are operating with a buffed +24 to hit on first attacks. With buffs, most of the evil party has ACs in the low/mid 30s. The ranger and monk can shrug off a ranged attack each round, and the monk also has crane wing. The Vampire Antipaladin can reach AC 40 against his smite targets, and he'll be large, swinging a nodachi for 2d8+31 vs smite targets.

The Ranger and Antipaladin have over 110 Hp each, while the Martial Artist only has 90, but is capable of blocking attacks every round. Do these guys sound capable of hanging with PCs that are a level higher, or should I add a level to each of them?

Spoiler:

Evoker CR 8
XP 4800
Female Halfling Sorcerer (Crossblooded, Wildblooded) 1/Wizard 8
CE Tiny Humanoid (halfling)
Init +5; Senses Perception +15
Aura elemental manipulation (8 rounds/day)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 34, touch 22, flat-footed 28 (+4 armor, +4 shield, +5 Dex, +2 size, +4 natural, +4 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 78 (9d6+44)
Fort +6, Ref +8 (+1 bonus vs. trample attacks), Will +7; +2 vs. fear
Defensive Abilities underfoot; Resist underfoot
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft., flight (90 feet, good)
Space 2.5 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks elemental ray (4/day)
Sorcerer (Crossblooded, Wildblooded) Spells Known (CL 1):
1 (4/day) Shield
0 (at will) Mage Hand, Dancing Lights, Read Magic
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 8):
4 (3/day) Scrying (DC 19), Vampiric Touch, Reach, Ball Lightning (DC 21), Age Resistance, Lesser
3 (4/day) Haste, Fireball (DC 20), Fireball (DC 20), Lightning Bolt (DC 20), Fly
2 (4/day) Darkvision, False Life, Scorching Ray, Mirror Image, Shocking Grasp, Reach
1 (6/day) Vanish, Magic Missile, Magic Missile (x2), Reduce Person (DC 16), Mage Armor
0 (at will) Detect Magic, Prestidigitation (DC 15), Ghost Sound (DC 15), Ray of Frost
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 4, Dex 21, Con 18, Int 20, Wis 13, Cha 13
Base Atk +4; CMB +8; CMD 19
Feats Combat Casting, Craft Wondrous Item, Eschew Materials, Greater Spell Focus (Evocation), Reach Spell, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Specialization (Fireball)
Skills Acrobatics +5 (+17 jump), Fly +22, Knowledge (arcana) +17, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (engineering) +9, Knowledge (geography) +9, Knowledge (history) +17, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (nature) +9, Knowledge (nobility) +9, Knowledge (planes) +17, Knowledge (religion) +9, Linguistics +13, Perception +15, Spellcraft +17, Stealth +13; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Infernal, Sylvan, Thassilonian
SQ arcane bonds (object [amulet] [1/day]), fearless, intense spells +4, mutated bloodlines (draconic [blue dragon [electricity]], primal [air]), opposition schools (abjuration, conjuration), specialized schools (admixture), versatile evocation (8/day)
Combat Gear Potion of barkskin +4, Potion of bear's endurance, Potion of cat's grace, Potion of shield of faith +4, Scroll of Resist Energy, Communal (CL 7), Toppling metamagic rod (lesser) (3/day); Other Gear Amulet, Headband of vast intelligence +2 (Perception), Silver Mirror (Focus for Scrying), 1000 GP of Valuables
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Arcane Bond (Amulet) (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Elemental Manipulation (8 rounds/day) (Su) - 0/8
Elemental Ray (4/day) (Sp) - 0/4
Potion of barkskin +4 - 0/1
Potion of bear's endurance - 0/1
Potion of cat's grace - 0/1
Potion of shield of faith +4 - 0/1
Toppling metamagic rod (lesser) (3/day) - 0/3
Versatile Evocation (8/day) (Su) - 0/8
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Abjuration You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Abjuration school.
Admixture Associated School: Evocation
Arcane Bond (Amulet) (1/day) (Sp) Use object to cast any spell in your spellbook 1/day. Without it, Concentration required to cast spells (DC20 + spell level).
Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Conjuration You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Conjuration school.
Elemental Manipulation (8 rounds/day) (Su) 30' Aura changes a chosen energy type into another chosen energy type.
Elemental Ray (4/day) (Sp) Ranged touch attack deals 1d6 Electricity damage
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Flight (90 feet, Good) You can fly!
Greater Spell Focus (Evocation) +1 to the Save DC of spells from one school.
Intense Spells +4 (Su) Evocation spells deal listed extra damage.
Primal (Air) +1 damage per die for [Electricity] spells.
Reach Spell You can cast a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium as one range category higher.
Scroll of Resist Energy, Communal (CL 7) Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Spell Focus (Evocation) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Specialization (Fireball) Pick one spell and cast it as if you were higher level
Toppling metamagic rod (lesser) (3/day) The wielder can cast up to three spells with the force descriptor per day that are affected as though the spells were augmented with the Toppling Spell feat.

Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat, allowing the user to apply metamagic effects to spells (but not spell like abilities) as they are cast. This does not change the spell slot of the altered spell. All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity). A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod's wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.

Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses (except for quicken metamagic rods, which can be used as a swift action).

Lesser and Greater Metamagic Rods: Normal metamagic rods can be used with spells of 6th level or lower. Lesser rods can be used with spells of 3rd level or lower, while greater rods can be used with spells of 9th level or lower.

Construction
Requirements Craft Rod, Toppling Spell; Cost 1,500 gp
Underfoot +1 AC vs. larger opponents and +1 save vs. trample
Versatile Evocation (8/day) (Su) Change the damage type and descriptor of a spell from acid, electricity, fire, or water to any other of those types.

--------------------

Martial Artist CR 8
XP 4800
Male Dwarf Monk (Martial Artist) 9
NE Medium Humanoid (dwarf)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +15
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 32, touch 24, flat-footed 27 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +4 natural, +4 deflection, +3 dodge)
hp 89 (9d8+45)
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +10; +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities defensive training, evasion, improved evasion; Immune fatigue
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 50 ft.
Melee Unarmed strike +14/+14/+9 (1d10+7+2d6 vs. Human/x2)
Special Attacks ancient enmity, flurry of blows +7/+7/+2/+2
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 6
Base Atk +6; CMB +15 (+17 Tripping); CMD 35 (35 vs. Bull Rush, 37 vs. Trip)
Feats Crane Style, Crane Wing, Deflect Arrows (1/round), Dodge, Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike), Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (9/day) (DC 18), Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike), Weapon Specialization (Unarmed strike)
Skills Acrobatics +19 (+27 jump, +28 to jump), Climb +9, Knowledge (history) +7 (+9 on checks that pertain to dwarves or their enemies), Knowledge (religion) +4, Linguistics +2, Perception +15 (+17 to notice unusual stonework, such as traps and hidden doors in stone walls or floors), Sense Motive +15, Swim +9; Racial Modifiers lorekeeper
Languages Common, Dwarven, Giant, Thassilonian
SQ ac bonus +5, bane (human), exploit weakness +12, fast movement (+30'), hardy, high jump, maneuver training, pain points, physical resistance 1, slow and steady, stability, stonecunning +2, stunning fist (stun, fatigue, sicken), unarmed strike (1d10)
Combat Gear Potion of barkskin +4, Potion of bear's endurance, Potion of bull's strength, Potion of cure serious wounds, Potion of mage armor, Potion of shield of faith +4; Other Gear Bane (Human) Amulet of mighty fists, Boots of elvenkind, Cloak of resistance +1, You have no money!
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Deflect Arrows (1/round) - 0/1
Potion of barkskin +4 - 1/1
Potion of bear's endurance - 1/1
Potion of bull's strength - 1/1
Potion of cure serious wounds - 0/1
Potion of mage armor - 1/1
Potion of shield of faith +4 - 1/1
Stunning Fist (9/day) (DC 18) - 0/9
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
AC Bonus +5 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Ancient Enmity +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Elves.
Bane (Human) +2 & +2d6 damage vs chosen type
Crane Style Penalty when fighting defensively reduced to -2 and dodge bonus increases by 1.
Crane Wing May deflect one attack per round while fighting defensively or using total defense
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Deflect Arrows (1/round) While have an empty hand, negate one ranged weapon hit you are aware of (unless from a massive weapon).
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Exploit Weakness +12 (Ex) At 4th level, as a swift action, a martial artist can observe a creature or object to find its weak point by making a Wisdom check and adding his monk level against a DC of 10 + the object's hardness or the target's CR. If the check succeeds, the mar
Fast Movement (+30') The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Flurry of Blows +7/+7/+2/+2 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full rd action.
Hardy +2 Gain a racial bonus to saves vs Poison, Spells and Spell-Like effects.
High Jump (+9/+29 with Ki point) (Ex) +9 to Acrobatics checks made to jump.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Improved Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead. If you fail you take half damage.
Improved Trip You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when tripping.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Lorekeeper +2 for Knowledge (History) checks relating to dwarves and their enemies. These checks can be made untrained.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Pain Points (Ex) At 3rd level, a martial artist's advanced knowledge of humanoid anatomy grants a +1 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls and increases the DC of his stunning fist and quivering palm by 1. This ability replaces still mind.
Physical Resistance 1 (Ex) At 7th level, if a martial artist suffers any effect that causes ability damage, ability drain, or temporary ability score penalties, the effect is reduced by 1 point. This reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 7th (to a maximum redu
Slow and Steady Your base speed is never modified by encumbrance.
Stability +4 Gain bonus to CMD vs bull rush/trip while standing on ground.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Stunning Fist (9/day) (DC 18) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun, Fatigue, Sicken) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Unarmed Strike (1d10) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.

--------------------

Ranger CR 8
XP 4800
Female Hobgoblin Horizon Walker 3/Ranger (Skirmisher) 6
NE Medium Humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +13
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 33, touch 18, flat-footed 29 (+7 armor, +4 shield, +3 Dex, +4 natural, +4 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 114 (9d10+60)
Fort +12 (+4 vs. hot or cold environments and to resist damage from suffocation), Ref +10, Will +4
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 70 ft.
Melee Light Shield Bash +17/+17/+12 (1d3+7/x2) and
+1 Scimitar +16/+16/+11 (1d6+6/18-20/x2)
Ranged Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +3) +14/+14/+9 (1d8+3/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemies (dwarves +4, humans +2)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +9; CMB +15; CMD 32
Feats Endurance, Improved Shield Bash, Missile Shield (1/round), Power Attack -3/+6, Shield Focus, Shield Master, Toughness, Two-weapon Fighting
Skills Acrobatics -1 (+15 jump), Bluff -1 (+3 vs. dwarves, +1 vs. humans, +3 vs. plains natives), Climb +8, Escape Artist -1, Fly -1, Handle Animal +3, Heal +5, Knowledge (geography) +12 (+16 vs. dwarves, +14 vs. humans, +14 while in forest terrain, +14 while in mountainous terrain, +16 while in plains terrain, +16 vs. plains natives), Knowledge (nature) +12 (+16 vs. dwarves, +14 vs. humans, +16 vs. plains natives), Linguistics +5, Perception +13 (+17 vs. dwarves, +15 vs. humans, +15 while in forest terrain, +15 while in mountainous terrain, +17 while in plains terrain, +17 vs. plains natives), Ride +5, Sense Motive +1 (+5 vs. dwarves, +3 vs. humans, +5 vs. plains natives), Stealth +15 (+17 while in forest terrain, +17 while in mountainous terrain, +19 while in plains terrain), Survival +13 (+17 vs. dwarves, +15 vs. humans, +15 while in forest terrain, +15 while in mountainous terrain, +17 while in plains terrain, +17 vs. plains natives, +16 to track), Swim +5 (+9 to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion); Racial Modifiers +4 Stealth
Languages Common, Dwarven, Goblin, Thassilonian
SQ combat styles (weapon and shield), favored terrains (forest +2, mountainous +2, plains +4), hunter's bonds (companions), hunter's tricks (4/day), hunter's tricks (surprise shift), terrain dominances (plains +4), terrain masteries (plains), track, wild empathy
Combat Gear Potion of barkskin +4, Potion of bear's endurance, Potion of bull's strength, Potion of shield of faith +4; Other Gear +1 Agile breastplate, +2 Light steel quickdraw shield, +1 Bane (Dwarf) Arrows (50), +1 Scimitar, Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +3), You have no money!
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
+1 Bane (Dwarf) Arrows - 48/50
Hunter's Tricks (4/day) (Ex) - 0/4
Missile Shield (1/round) - 0/1
Potion of barkskin +4 - 1/1
Potion of bear's endurance - 1/1
Potion of bull's strength - 1/1
Potion of shield of faith +4 - 1/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Endurance +4 to a variety of fort saves, skill and ability checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Favored Enemy (Dwarves +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Dwarves).
Favored Enemy (Humans +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Humans).
Favored Terrain (Forest +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Forest).
Favored Terrain (Mountain +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Mountain).
Favored Terrain (Plains +4) (Ex) +4 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Plains).
Hunter's Trick (Surprise Shift) (Ex) The ranger can move 5 feet as a swift action. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity and does not count as a 5-foot step.
Hunter's Tricks (4/day) (Ex) Various tricks.
Hunting Companions (1 rounds) (Ex) Grant half favored enemy bonus to allies in 30' as move action.
Improved Shield Bash You still get your shield bonus while using Shield Bash.
Missile Shield (1/round) 1/round, when hit by a ranged weapon, take no damage.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shield Focus +1 Shield AC
Shield Master No off-hand penalties for shield bashes, add a shield's enhancement bonus to attack rolls.
Terrain Dominance (Plains +4) Use fav. terrain as enemy bonus vs. terrain natives.
Terrain Mastery (Plains) (1 rds) Grant allies bonus in terrain.
Track +3 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Wild Empathy +5 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.

--------------------

Vamp CR 9
XP 6400
Female Human Vampire (Azlanti) Antipaladin 8
CE Large Undead (augmented humanoid, human)
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +18
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 40, touch 23, flat-footed 33 (+7 armor, +5 Dex, -1 size, +10 natural, +7 deflection, +2 dodge)
hp 120 (8d10+72); fast healing 5
Fort +20, Ref +17, Will +13; +4 bonus vs. channeled energy
Defensive Abilities channel resistance +4; DR 10/magic, 10/silver; Immune disease, undead traits; Resist cold 10, electricity 10
Weakness vampire weaknesses
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft.
Melee +1 Cold Iron Nodachi +23/+23/+18 (2d8+31/18-20/x2) and
Slam (Vampire) +16 (1d8+15/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks antipaladin channel negative energy 4d6 (5/day) (d, blood drain, children of the night (1/day), create spawn, dominate (dc 21), energy drain (2 levels) (dc 21), smite good (3/day)
Spell-Like Abilities
At will—Detect Good (At will)
Antipaladin Spells Prepared (CL 5):
2 (3/day) Desecrate, Undetectable Alignment (DC 19)
1 (3/day) Murderous Command (DC 18), Bane (DC 18), Command (DC 18)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 28, Dex 20, Con —, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 24
Base Atk +8; CMB +16 (+20 Overrunning); CMD 42 (44 vs. Overrun)
Feats Alertness, Charge Through, Combat Reflexes (6 AoO/round), Dodge, Greater Overrun, Improved Initiative, Improved Overrun, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack -3/+6, Toughness, Weapon Focus (Nodachi)
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+16 jump), Bluff +26, Climb +8, Escape Artist +4, Fly +2, Knowledge (history) +3, Knowledge (nobility) +3, Knowledge (planes) +3, Knowledge (religion) +6, Linguistics +6, Perception +18, Ride +4, Sense Motive +21, Stealth +19, Swim +8; Racial Modifiers +8 Bluff, +8 Perception, +8 Sense Motive, +8 Stealth
Languages Abyssal, Azlanti, Common, Giant, Goblin, Infernal, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ aura of cowardice, aura of despair, aura of evil, change shape (dire bat or wolf, beast shape ii), channel negative energy, cruelties (shaken [dc 21], staggered [dc 21]), fiendish boons (weapon [1/day]), gaseous form (at will), shadowless, spider climb, touch of corruption (4d6) (11/day), unholy resilience
Combat Gear Potion of barkskin +4, Potion of cat's grace, Potion of enlarge person, Scroll of Bull's Strength, Scroll of Eagle's Splendor; Other Gear +1 Mithral Breastplate, +1 Cold Iron Nodachi, You have no money!
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Antipaladin Channel Negative Energy 4d6 (5/day) (DC 21) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Aura of Cowardice (Su) Enemies within 10 ft. are not Immune to fear and take -4 to saves vs. fear effects.
Aura of Despair (Su) Enemies within 10' take a -2 penalty on all saving throws.
Aura of Evil (Ex) The antipaladin has an Aura of Evil with power equal to her class level.
Blood Drain (Ex) Suck blood for 1d4 CON dam when pin foe and gain 5 Hp.
Change Shape (dire bat or wolf, beast shape II) (Su) You can change your form.
Channel Negative Energy (Su) You can channel negative energy to heal the undead and injure the living.
Channel Resistance +4 +4 bonus to save vs. Channel Energy.
Charge Through You can make a free overrun as part of a charge.
Children of the Night (1/day) (Su) Call forth rats, bats or wolves as a standard action.
Combat Reflexes (6 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Create Spawn (Ex) Opponents killed by Energy Drain rise 1d4 days after burial.
Cruelty (Shaken) (8 rds) (DC 21) (Su) When you use your Touch of Corruption ability, you may also make your target shaken for 1r/Antipaladin level

You may only apply a single Cruelty ability to each use of Touch of Corruption, chosen when used.
Cruelty (Staggered) (4 rds) (DC 21) (Su) When you use your touch of corruption ability, you may also make your target staggered for 1 rd per 2 Antipaladin levels

You may only apply a single Cruelty ability to each use of touch of corruption, chosen when used.
Damage Reduction (10/magic) You have Damage Reduction against all except Magic attacks.
Damage Reduction (10/silver) You have Damage Reduction against all except Silver attacks.
Damage Resistance, Cold (10) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Cold attacks.
Damage Resistance, Electricity (10) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Detect Good (At will) (Sp) You can use Detect Good at will (as the spell).
Dominate (DC 21) (Su) As a standard action, can use dominate person on foe in 30 ft.
Energy Drain (2 levels) (DC 21) (Ex) Foes hit by the listed attack take neg levels, gain 5 temp hp for each drained.
Fast Healing 5 (Ex) You heal damage every round if you have > 1 Hp.
Fiendish Boon (Weapon +2) (8 minutes) (1/day) (Sp) You can enhance your weapon for 1 minute per level one or more times per day.
Gaseous Form (At will) (Su) Can assume gaseous form, except with 20 ft speed and perfect maneuverability.
Greater Overrun Foes you overrun provoke AoO if they are knocked prone.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Improved Overrun You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when overrunning, and foe can't choose to avoid you.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Scroll of Bull's Strength Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Scroll of Eagle's Splendor Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Shadowless (Ex) A vampire casts no shadows and shows no reflection in a mirror.
Smite Good (3/day) (Su) +7 to hit, +8 to damage, +7 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spider Climb (Ex) A vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though under the effects of a spider climb spell.
Touch of Corruption (4d6) (11/day) (Su) You can inflict 4d6 damage, 11/day
Undead Traits Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects
Unholy Resilience (Su) You gain your Charisma Bonus as a bonus to all saving throws.
Vampire Weaknesses (Ex) Certain items or actions can ward off a vampire, while others destroy it.

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Side Question: Does a Human-Bane weapon affect half-elves and half-orcs?

[Tels]

Oserath wrote:

Side Question: Does a Human-Bane weapon affect half-elves and half-orcs?

Yes it does. Half-elves and Half-orcs are treated as human and elf/orc. They are doubly vulnerable as both human and elf/orc bane weapons function against them. However, you can't double up a bane weapon on 1 enemy. So a +1 Human Bane, Orc Bane weapon doesn't function as a +5 weapon that deals an extra 4d6 points of damage against a half-orc.

Additionally, in the post I made up-thread, I linked to a post I made about a 10th level party of bounty hunters. Check out that post, and check out the thread it's posted in. It's actually got a very similar question. We helped mdt come up with a group of 4 sisters that challenged a party of 6. Due to some bad choices on the parties side, the party lost the fight.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

Think how much better a party does when they ambush some monster as opposed to when the encounter comes at them completely unexpectedly.

A one level difference is not that much. When you can pick the place, circumstances, time, pre-buffs, etc... You (the NPC's in this case) can perform as if they were much higher level.

I have found you have to be very careful to not TPK the party.

[Rerednaw]

Oserath wrote:

I'm currently DMing a Rise of the Runelords campaign and so far my party has had a pretty easy time tearing through most combats. We are almost done the third book at this point. I'm planning to ambush the party with an evil party while they travel before the fourth book.

I was curious if any DMs had much experience with throwing a rival party against your PCs. I also will gladly take opinions about how to combat them.

The PCs:
** spoiler omitted **

My current planned evil party: (I'm planning on running them at a level below the PCs)
** spoiler omitted **...

I don't see full progression casters on the PCs side...is this deliberate?

I have had plenty of experience throwing the Linear Guild against the PCs.
Since you are addressing your biggest disadvantage which is action economy, it should be more of a closer fight, all other things being equal.

In addition, you are giving your NPCs the added benefit of pre-buffing, something Pathfinder has moved away from. If that means your Evoker is getting 2 free rounds of massed AoE damage, it's really going to hurt.

I noticed you went Sorc1/Wiz 8. You know it's possible for a 9th level wizard to throw a Quickened* Fireball (10d6, avg 35) and a Maximized* (or Empowered Intensified) Fireball (avg 60 )in a single round. 95 hp save for half is fairly decent shock value. Without items.

*Stack traits to drop the spell slot on metamagics by 2 with Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter. Now Quickened is level +2. And Maximize is level +1.

If you want to use items I suppose if you give him a familiar to fire up a Lesser Goblin Drum (2,000 gp). That bumps it up to 115 hp save for half. Granted it's not the 200-300+ to a single target that some (martial) builds can do. The downside of a goblin drum is the 30 foot range (and move action, but that's what the familiar is for.) I'd rather be flying and a long way away from all the martials.

CL is 10+ for a 9th wizard with the right feats/traits. Even two fliers from opposite directions with a similar offensive build can be quite troublesome if they get the drop. Or ideally, have the ground team (with some kind of fire-resistance/immunity via race or potions, or have them as expendables) engage the party and then have the aerial strikes come in. Nessian Hell Hounds would be an interesting ground diversion. Though it really depends on the story and how likely the NPCs would be able to get this kind of aid.

A cautionary note. Another advantage you have is the ability to custom-build a NPC party for high-synergy. Players can do this as well of course, it's just in my experience that you rarely see a full party of builds that complement each other. With this it is very possible to easily have a TPK-worthy NPC party even if that was not your goal.

[Oserath]

The PCs had a controller/debuffer sorcerer for a while (my character), but we switched up DMs and so the party is currently quite martial. The Oracle is 2 levels behind on full casting, but ultimately has stellar saves, and some more useful martial capability thanks to his paladin dip.

I thought Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter didn't stack.

The enemies getting prebuffing will be offset by the fact that the party will probably have some buffs up, since I will have the vampire's wolves harry them shortly before the assault. (Possibly with an additional dire wolf or two.)

I'm not looking for a TPK, just something that gets them out of the mindset that they can take on anything. I think ideally, a kill or two would probably illustrate that point.

RotRL spoiler:

Spoiler:

These guys dropped in on top of a fortress full of ogres, and cleared the top floor, which had multiple bosses, in one single combat, comprising all of the rooms.

[Rerednaw]

Oserath wrote:

The PCs had a controller/debuffer sorcerer for a while (my character), but we switched up DMs and so the party is currently quite martial. The Oracle is 2 levels behind on full casting, but ultimately has stellar saves, and some more useful martial capability thanks to his paladin dip.

I thought Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter didn't stack.
...** spoiler omitted **

:) To the bane of GMs who hate meta-magic builds everywhere, those two traits currently stack. Well unless they were recently changed. :)

There are several threads on the subject.

Without knowing the characters stats is ~100 (remember save half) points of damage at 10th level is a TPK?** I figure most of the party will be making one or both of those saves anyway. And I'm not counting resistances, evasion, or any number of tricks they have at their disposal.

What my suggested build will do is set up very nicely or possibly provide a potential KO for one or perhaps two of the party. Which was the intent right?

<**My 4 level druid in LG took 100 hp *after* making the save. Now that was just plain nasty. :) >

As for the party's mindset of being able to take on anything...well I'm a firm believer in "heroes." They *are* better than most, and I like the PCs to be the movers and shakers in the world. Not Drizzt's pet's pet follower. I feel the same when I am a player. I know the DM can say "rocks fall you die" or introduce a DMPC who is better than all of us combined. Personally not my cup of tea.

I am not familiar with RotR (hoping to play it)...but clearing an entire level with multiple bosses? Was it a matter of tactics and possible PC optimization? Luck? Or just good planning? Or a bit of all of that? Still aren't they heroes? This is what heroes *do* They beat the odds.

I just had something similar happen in the AP I am running. Party made their way into a fortress (good use of disguise and bluff). They got halfway unless they got caught. As a result the defenders were badly out of position and rather easily defeated. Warm fuzziness abounded.

By contrast, when the party fought against a group of warriors in an inn they did not fare as well. That's right the party faced basic vanilla NPC warriors with crap gear...and the PCs almost got their clocks cleaned. I had the warriors aid each other, flank, and coordinate. It was like fighting the Borg. They won, but it was close.

Whatever you decide hope it works towards enhancing both the story and fun :)

[strayshift]

Terrain. Let your party move 'into' the battle then seal half of them off - wall spell or some such equivalence. The sealed individuals should then face further separation (wall spell again) into groups of 1-2 before a mass attack against the smaller faction.

Allow your players to fully know this and plan their tactics accordingly - at their level dispels will not work as well as a repeated casting and isolation of party members.

If faced with a TPK then perhaps retreat is the better option...

[Broken Zenith]

I wrote a whole article about having a rival party, including what to do and what not to do! You can read it here.

[Alexander Augunas]

I didn't read your exact scenario, so forgive me if you touch on any of my advice.

An "evil opposites" encounter is quite possible, but its also quite challenging. This is why.

I am going to assume that you are going to equip your evil opposites like PCs, not NPCs. If you equip them like NPCs, the encounter will be more in favor of the PCs; simple Math provides this.

Basically, if you have two class-based humanoids at the same level with wealth appropriate for their level, both characters have an identical CRl that CR is equal to the character's Level. Now, multiply that by four and you have an encounter with a CR that is equal to the level of one of those characters +4. For example, everyone (PCs and opponents) are Level 8 with PC-equivalent wealth, then the encounter is effectively a CR 12 encounter. At CR +4, this would be an encounter that is harder than any listed in the Core Rulebook, and generally speaking there is a probable chance that the encounter will expend 100% of your party's resources. Since HP is a resource, that means TPK.

While I personally think that throwing a CR +4 encounter at your players is a good thing, it is important to know the mathematical implications.

[Bobo Rolliolis]

Have some fun with the sorcerer doing some shock and awe magic on them, then as the smoke clears, the antipaladin emerges in all his intimidating glory. He challenges the Oracle/Paladin to a duel, the terms of the fight are that the others won't be involved. Seal the deal with a handshake (then secretly roll fort saves, since antipaladins can carry diseases, then reveal the results after the fight).

The duel happens, then the rest of the anti-party launces a surprise attack. The party doesn't know how many enemies there are, so have some fun harassing them from cover.

Even if the party wins, the diseases should reap some sorrow on them, and depending on how you feel about screwing with Paladins, maybe have the anti-party surrender if things go south.

But for BONUS points, equip the anti-party with some cursed gear, this way when the party kills them and loots them, their WBL will be kept in check a bit more, and the party will again suffer.

The party may be unstoppable in combat, but there's plenty of other ways to make them hurt. Crafty ways like diseased handshakes and cursed gear should put them on edge a little :)