| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
For what it's worth, the first part of my campaign log (up until the point where my group fell apart...about 2/3 of the way through) is here. Here is a link to the campaign's website, which has A LOT of resources I put together...most of it is stuff you probably don't need, like a new class and a new oracle mystery, but there are expanded versions of Larissa's journal and Vanthus's diaries, map scans, and (if you're interested) the rest of the campaign log.
As far as general stuff goes, towards the end of the first thread I linked to, you will find some plot changes I made. If you search on the boards you will find a lot more, but obviously I think mine are the best ;) (In particular, the alterations to Rowyn's sabotage made for great roleplaying...and I was really looking forward to the end of the campaign, having rewritten a lot of the politics involved...)
I will say that I trawled these boards to compile a 300 page or so document of posts with ideas I later went through looking for changes to make to the campaign...that took a long time, but it was definitely worth it, because there are a LOT of good ideas on here.
Possible pitfalls:
1) The players must LOVE Lavinia and HATE Vanthus. Period. Those two PCs motivate like 75% of the campaign. If the players don't care about them you will have a hard time convincing them to do certain things...like sail to the Isle of Dread (installment 3), attack Scuttlecove (installment 8, I think), or sail into the Abyss itself to break into Demogorgon's personal prison to rescue Lavinia (installment 9). Personally, I just enforced that all PCs must be good-aligned. This prevented a few sticky moral issues from causing a rift between PCs based on alignment (which usually turns into a rift between players) and gave them a lot of reasons to do certain things which advanced the plot and helped everyone have a good time.
2) The wreck at the end of installment 3, and the subsequent journey to Farshore, present their own set of problems...you can just kill all the NPCs (except the 4 mentioned in the adventure), and if you play them smart, the bar-lguras will kill EVERYONE. I added together the PCs' Profession (sailor) checks, divided by 2, and allowed that many NPCs to survive (in my case, all of them). That isn't as much of a logistical headache as it seems, because most of them are non-combatants. Allowing the party to bond with Farshore's future citizens gives them added motivation to save the colony.
For the same reason, I had Lavinia be aboard the Sea Wyvern when the first storm stranded it in the sargasso, after which she remained with the party throughout the second storm, the wreck, the overland trek across the Isle, and the rescue mission in Fogmire. I strongly recommend this, because otherwise the party will not have much contact with her at all. Since Vanthus is gone for the whole space between installments 2 and 5, the party will forget about him unless you are careful (or unless they really hate him - which they should). It really helps later to have Lavinia become a familiar presence. Plus, you can use this opportunity to display her leadership qualities and resourcefulness. That way, the party will be a lot less likely to view her as a figurehead and/or damsel in distress, which will come in handy later when Vanthus comes back for her.
3) Just to repeat: Vanthus and Lavinia are the core of the campaign. In particular, it's a loooong time between the incident at Kraken's Cove, where the party is first exposed to the horrible danger of the shadow pearls, and the siege of Farshore, which is the next time we see them again. The Savage Tide gets sort of forgotten between installments 2 and 5, and if that was the party's motivation for doing anything, they will lose that motivation long before Vanthus shows up in Farshore with a shadow pearl. It's only late in the campaign that Demogorgon even comes into focus as the villain. 2/3 of the campaign revolves around helping Lavinia and chasing down...and always failing to catch...Vanthus. (Until they finally kill him...and he comes back.)
A lot of people say that the end of the campaign falls off, and their players stopped caring. It's really easy to let what should be an epic invasion of the Abyss turn into a generic "attack monsters" series of dungeon crawls. The key to avoiding this is to keep things personal and build up to the shadow pearl conspiracy as a natural and gradual extension of chasing Vanthus and saving Lavinia.
Phew, that's a lot. See the links above and/or the rest of the boards for more ideas. It's worth taking the time to do! I don't check these boards all that often, but next time I come by I will check and see if you have any specific questions.
I agree with the advice above. You can spice things up by adding more savage creatures to remind the PCs about the savage tide. Also, do yourself a favor and read the whole campaign through at least once before starting it, so that you can foreshadow certain things. I foreshadowed for one that Vanthus had been having contact with demons and this was a prime motivator for my campaign.
Also on the Lavinia thing, remember that - unlike most of the other NPCs - she is NOT a noncombatant. Following the events of Bullywug's Gambit she stops taking Aristocrat levels and starts leveling up in a combat class - the STAP book gave her Swashbuckler levels, but in my old game she went into Swordsage due to being combat-trained by the party's Ninja|Swordsage gestalt. Have her approach a combatant PC she's friendly with sometime between Chapter Two and Three - or sooner if you think it'd make sense - for combat training, and as she gains levels (pick a class you think fits her - don't be afraid to rebuild the NPC Lavinia provided if something in your group fits her better than Swashbuckler!) have her fight alongside the party. This will, as Vermilleo said, reinforce that she's not just some damsel-in-distress and is a capable and willing adventurer in her own right.
I definitely like the idea of her getting to trek across the island with the PCs. I didn't do that last time but I will have to make a point of it this time around.
Also on the Lavinia thing, remember that - unlike most of the other NPCs - she is NOT a noncombatant. Following the events of Bullywug's Gambit she stops taking Aristocrat levels and starts leveling up in a combat class
I just removed - sorry, "retrained" - her Aristocrat levels. In my campaign she ended up with (I believe) a level or two each of Fighter and Rogue (some swashbuckler-y archetype, forget which) followed by a lot of Duelist. At some point in there she picked up an enchanted pistol and the party theurge, with whom she ended up being romantically involved, made her an enchanted rapier (named Osprey, if anyone is interested :). She ended up killing Vanthus with that rapier during the Siege of Farshore, literally at the last possible second before his nightmare mount would have ethereal jaunted him to safety. :D
While we're on the subject of removing Aristocrat levels, I did the same thing to Vanthus. At the end of the day he was a Lemorian Antipaladin9/Assassin5 with all kinds of poison and magic items. The last round of combat with him was probably the single most epic round of combat I have ever DM'ed. :D
I think Rowyn Kellani had Aristocrat levels too...can't remember. By the time she showed up on the Sea Wyvern she was a Rogue2/Bard(Sandman)10 with about 12,000 gp of poison. >:D
Also on the Lavinia thing, remember that - unlike most of the other NPCs - she is NOT a noncombatant. Following the events of Bullywug's Gambit she stops taking Aristocrat levels and starts leveling up in a combat classI just removed - sorry, "retrained" - her Aristocrat levels.
While we're on the subject of removing Aristocrat levels, I did the same thing to Vanthus.
Same!
I think Rowyn Kellani had Aristocrat levels too...can't remember. By the time she showed up on the Sea Wyvern she was a Rogue2/Bard(Sandman)10 with about 12,000 gp of poison. >:D
Nah, she was Rogue 2/Bard 3 in TINH, no NPC class levels. Which since I was doing Gestalt I just made her Rogue 5|Bard 5.
|
I also ran this to completion under 3.5 with 4 players + GMPC (no one wanted to play the healer). I'm not aware of any handbook similar to what you linked. If you have any specific questions, the best thing to do is search this subforum and if you can't find a satisfactory answer, start a thread on the subject.
Vermilleo and Orthos give some good advice on PC love/hate for Lavinia/Vanthus, respectively. Things start getting whacky when the PCs have to hoof-it across the IoD.
-Skeld
I ran the campaign through to completion and compiled a journal of the entire thing. I start doing more DM commentary later in the journal that might be helpful.
It's been a while since I ran it, but it was probably my favourite campaign. I recall having to restat a number of the villains in the later part of the game. There were a lot of 3.5 spells that were starting to wreak havok on the enemies in higher level play- such as the various orb spells and bolt of glory. They got rid of most of those in pathfinder, which I'm thankful for.
Here's a link to my journal
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, I received a PM asking for specific details of the stuff I did. So here is at least some of it (more to follow later, eventually, when I have more time). Note: some of the stuff I have here was taken from or inspired by other threads on these forums. I don't really remember who or where. So while some of this is my own stuff, not all of it is. Anyone who recognizes anything, feel free to post links to the original threads :)
Also...this is long, rambling, and full of probably too much detail. But if you're not interested, just ignore this post (:
General
You can foreshadow quite a few events in the campaign before the party ever meets Lavinia. For example, if any of the party has adventurer or sailor relatives or backgrounds, you can drop hints about the legendary Isle of Dread, Journey's End, island-sized turtles big enough to swallow whole ships...and of plenty of other red herrings, such as ghost ships, krakens, sea serpents. If none of them have the appropriate background, just have them overhear it as part of a conversation between sailors or something. One thing I specifically recommend is to foreshadow the Crimson Fleet and the Sea Wyvern in this manner, maybe among merchants talking about a recent pirate attack somewhere.
You can also introduce some of the NPCs in this way. Avner Meravanchi ran into (and was a jackass towards) my party early on as they made their way to Vanderboren Manor, and didn't remember them at all the next time he saw them.
Prologue
At the very beginning of the campaign, I ran a prologue encounter taking place one year before the events in TINH. Several members of my group had played through the Age of Worms with me, and with the Wormfall Festival playing such a large part in TBG, I thought it would be a good place to sort of put the major players in the same place.
Basically, I had all the PCs be present in Sasserine when Kyuss broke free from his prison. From the jungles to the west, hordes of undead spilled forth to destroy the city, etc. The PCs (none of whom knew each other, except for two with shared backstory) found themselves fighting to survive against a horde of zombies (which, since zombies are pretty weak, they killed pretty easily). They kept looking for safety when they saw a nobleman being assaulted by a Spawn of Kyuss. After a long, difficult fight against the Spawn and a few zombies (Spawn of Kyuss are CR 5 if I remember correctly), they killed it and were just barely able to save the nobleman's life by cutting the Kyuss worm the Spawn had infested him with out of his flesh before it reached his brain.
Guess who the nobleman was? Vanthus Vanderboren, of course! :D
As an aside: Vanthus's backstory, as expanded on later in the campaign, seemed to imply that he should still have been on the Isle of Dread when this happened. They started figuring something was fishy when they found that out. (This was before the party found out about him summoning Pazuzu - or, as originally written, General something-or-other, some commander in Demogorgon's army - in Farshore.)
Another aside: my original plan was to keep increasing the difficulty of the encounters until the party died, eventually stomping them with an overworm if they lasted long enough. I ditched this idea for obvious reasons and I recommend you avoid it, too. Bad way to start the campaign :C
There Is No Honor (TINH)
When Lavinia asked them to help her save her brother from the bad crowd he'd fallen in with, they recognized him from the prologue. Right there, they all had an expectation that he would be (i) an important NPC, and (ii) an ally.
Also, as mentioned elsewhere, I had Vanthus dragged off to the Isle of Dread by his parents for character development (rather than being sent to some random place - I don't even remember where the original AP said he was) while Lavinia went to Thenalar Academy. I figured this fit much better for all kinds of reasons. This didn't really come into play much until later in the campaign, but I added one detail when the party gets into Vanderboren Vault under Castle Teraknian. When they left the vault with Lavinia's treasure and debt notes and stuff, one of the PCs started feeling horribly depressed every time someone mentioned "Vanthus" or "Vanderboren." They eventually discovered there was a locket of a small girl in that PC's pockets. She was an intelligent item with very few abilities beyond empathy/telepathy, 30' sight, and the ability to dimension door herself once per day. Vanthus picked her up on the Isle of Dread from one of Xiureksor's half-dragon kids. (Xiureksor, one of the Infamous Seven, played a large part in the campaign.) She helped him break into his Uncle Ventrue's secret room in Farshore, where he found the Book of Infinite Spells that let him summon his first demon lord...he brought her back with him to Sasserine and used her to help him break into the vault, then abandoned her. She was kind of naive and romantic and sort of in love with him...when she found out about all his dastardliness, she had a breakdown and eventually became Lavinia's sort of adopted sister.
Anyway, the point of all that rambling is that she was seemingly not very important at the beginning but tied into a lot of stuff that happened on the Isle of Dread later, as well as a lot of the stuff that Vanthus had done.
Lastly, Parrot Island...
When the party started looking around for Vanthus, I had Vanthus (disguised as a mute beggar) follow them around along with the shifty fellow who led them to Parrot Island in the first place. (As I recall Vanthus was waiting there. I could be wrong...but anyway, having him literally within arm's reach the whole time they were looking for him just rubbed salt in the wound later.) Here's what happened after he stabbed the informant and tossed him down to his death:
********************************************
A shadow blocks off the sunlight in the shaft, and a mocking voice spirals down from above.
"So, these are my sister's pets...a pity. You should have stayed away from us. I had hoped to one day receive you in our manor and thank you properly for saving my life. Unfortunately, circumstances make that unlikely, so please accept both my gratitude and my regrets. I do not believe we shall meet again."
Vanthus stands and retrieves a small object from his sabretache, staring it contemplatively before letting it fall. "Something for the ferryman," he calls, a moment before it strikes the floor with a metallic clank. "Give my regards to Penkus!"
In a moment he has closed the trap door and you hear an ominous grinding coming from above.
********************************************
The thing he tossed down was a bag full of platinum coins from the Abyss, used there to pay Charon and the ferrymen. This was, perhaps, going to come back waaaaaay at the end of the campaign, when the party actually runs into Charon, but sadly, we never made it there.
The informant was stabbed to death with silver needles. When the party left for Kraken's Cove, they had an opportunity to hear that Keltar Islaran (I think was his name) - the Harbormaster - had been murdered the night before in the same fashion. Vanthus killed him to help Rowyn consolidate her hold on the harbor trade.
Also, politics: see this post. This is another opportunity to make Lavinia a contributor to the party's exploits, not just a beneficiary.
Lastly: Churtle the kobold. You can, of course, do whatever you like with her. However, in my experience, PCs love quirky kobold henchmen, I don't know why :) Also, if you decide to go really overboard with Rowyn's sabotage during TSWW, Churtle's expertise in poison can, you know, provide an out for you so everyone doesn't die horribly of poisoning. My PCs were properly paranoid so it wasn't an issue with them, but...
The Bullywug Gambit
Not much worth changing here, in my opinion:
1) "Random encounter" - while on their way to Kraken's Cove, the party spots a troupe of bullywugs in the distance, slopping their way through the marsh in the general direction of Sasserine.
2) Harliss will come back as an ally later in the campaign...if possible, you should make sure that she and the PCs part on good terms. If any of your PCs are sailors or reformed pirates, they may even recognize her. One of my PCs (who had issues roleplaying from the very beginning...but that's another story) threatened Harliss with violence unless she helped them. I have just one recommendation: if someone in your group is stupid enough to do that, well...I mean, don't kill everyone, but, you know, humiliate them. There are plenty of times in the future when the party is going to have to deal with people more powerful than them. This is an excellent place to emphasize the importance of Diplomacy.
3) If you're interested in the obyrith conspiracy I wrote about somewhere else on here, it's easy enough to drop a few Dagon references among the bullywugs, especially Bua Gorg.
4) I had Fleur (the locket I mentioned above) really ingratiate herself to the party by dimension dooring into Drevoraz's face when the fight started, giving Lavinia an opportunity to get to safety, grab a rapier, and start killing bullywugs. I also had Bua Gorg fill the room with fog cloud and enlarge himself. The suddenly huge bullywug rampaging through the party in cramped quarters was very memorable.
5) The encounter with Diamondback. See this post.
6) Kraken's Cove is one of the very, very few on-screen appearances of the Savage Tide. Since stopping the Savage Tide is, well, the whole point of the campaign, you should make it as memorable as possible. Make the savage creatures dangerous and dramatic and make it clear that the contagion will spread beyond the 1-mile radius of the initial Savage Tide. For this particular reason I also had another shadow pearl go off in a city the PCs passed in TSWW, just so, you know, they don't forget about it by ToD when Vanthus and the Savage Tide make a reappearance.
7) Finally - just as with the Savage Tide, Vanthus disappears for a looong time here. Just make sure the PCs don't forget about him.
Eh, such a long and disorganized post. Really, if you want to know what I did, you should just read the posts I made :P But I will try to post more later anyhow. I guess this is much shorter, huh...
Please, keep it coming! I'm heavily hoping to use some of these ideas to patch up some problems I had with my original run of the AP and augment the parts I didn't have problems with when I run it again.
I started this in 3.5 and converted to Pathfinder.
A lot of the stuff about Lavinia and her brother has been said.
Like all AP try and tie your characters to the campaign. I had a half elf who's parents had retired to a new colony similar to Farshore which the Crimson fleet destroyed. This information came out in drips throughout the campaign. The sorcerer had a favourate uncle who turned out to be a necromancer. They came across his trail several time before he turned up as a statue at the basilisk lair.
I had recurring encounters with the Scarlet Brotherhood right the way up to IOD (just to spice things up really)
It's been a long time since i ran this campaign but from my experience I found cutting out the last several adventures was a good decision for my group as the campaign is long and turns into a slog and can cause player burnout.
I recommend doing some big cuts to Lightless Depths as it drags especially after Tides of Dread (which is probably the high point of the campaign)
I ended the campaign a bit after Serpents of Scuttlecove though I did run parts of Into the Maw to rescue Lavinia and have the party kill of Vanthus. There was no show down with Demogorgon but did have a showdown with his chosen avatars (two buffed up glabrezu demons, called the Twins - one apish, the other reptilian) with a ticking clock to stop the Savage Tide. We ended around 15th-16th level. This took us through 1 and a half years of play.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My biggest recommendation is to break up the campaign a little bit and let the party go off he rails for a while. As it stands things move along at a relatively rapid from one isolated adventure location to the next, without much chance for the PCs to interact with the wider world or pursue their own agenda. This is fine at the lower levels, but when you start getting a little further up there it can be difficult for the PCs to feel like 'big damn heroes' when their only fan fair is in an isolated colony and they are firmly on the rails. As it stands, having a bunch of nobodies’ defeat Demogorgon after assembling an alliance kind of strains my disbelief as well as mitigates what should be one of the awesome parts of such an epic AP.
Ideally you could slip off the rails a little bit after The Bullywug Gambit, after Tides of Dread, then again after City of Broken Idols for detours wherever the party would like, before picking back up with the main plot.
After Bullywug you can let the party explore Sasserine a little more, perhaps go on a quest nearby. They could investigate Vanthus’ past if interested in that, or simply adventure some. They can use this time to build relationships in Sasserine with its factions, shore up with Lavinia, and meet some new people. It also gives Lavinia some time to get over the assault on her home and murder of her friend before she rushes off into a major sea voyage.
After Tides of Dread the party could explore the Isle a bit and perhaps return to Sasserine to spread word of their exploits, gather supplies, and gain some allies before they eventually descend into The Lightless Depths. If you let them interact some after Bullywug this is great time to highlight how much the characters have grown since that time. People interacting with factions have moved from blips to major powers. Wizards are now among the most powerful in the Witchwardens, Fighters are now fully fledged demonslayers with the Church of Whirling Fury, and priests are now the equal or nearly so of high priests. Let them revel in that for a bit. Let them explore the Isle without a timer hanging over their head – hunt the Infamous Eight, explore Rakasta ruins, start enterprises, and so forth. The last time they journied across the Isle they were shepherding a bunch of noncombatants and were shadowed and harassed the entire time. Let them see what there is here without that. Let them seek out Opar or the lost Olman Village. There is a ton of history surrounding the Isle of Dread, and it seems a waste not to let the party get a taste of it.
After City of Broken Idles the party is probably in the 15-16 range - big movers and shakers - and you could probably fit in a regional plot that brings them to the attention of some other big movers and shakers and lets them make some connections with some big names they could potentially add to Enemies of my Enemy later (e.g. the Circle of Eight, the Chosen, head honcho Pathfinders depending on your setting). My GM transplanted Freeport over Sasserine and ran a powered up Freeport Trilogy for us at this level, where the party saved Sasserine, and subsequently made contact with Tenser and a few other power players as a result. They assumed leadership positions in the organizations they were a part of in Sasserine, became heroes to the entire city, and were able to rest and refit.
The other advantage these breaks have, beyond recharging players, is that they let you as a GM recharge yourself. They let you go off the rails a bit and explore different locations, themes, and NPCs from the published stuff without having to make large changes to the plot of the main adventure.
Definitely agree with Peter. I had them investigate the plantation Vanthus was sent to, to see if there were any clues as to what sent him off the rails. Vanthus was using this are for weapon running to savages (lizardmen I think).
I also brought in some character driven stuff that faced them off against the Scarlet Brotherhood (a good reason to leave town)
Definitely agree with Peter. I had them investigate the plantation Vanthus was sent to, to see if there were any clues as to what sent him off the rails. Vanthus was using this are for weapon running to savages (lizardmen I think).
I also brought in some character driven stuff that faced them off against the Scarlet Brotherhood (a good reason to leave town)
And an even better reason to show up later 5-6 levels stronger. A big part of high level game play for me is showing character growth. The transition between insurmountable challenges into manageable ones, or difficult challenges into trivial ones.
If all the party ever does is face level appropriate foes you are missing out on part of what makes the higher level stuff so dynamic in my mind. At low levels a party has to be careful, at high levels they can have swagger. At low levels they are played out after a few encounters - at high levels they can manage enemy after enemy (if they vary in ELO). As frustrating as it was at the time, the most iconic high level experience I recall wasn't against a bunch of high CR enemies, it was against legions of lower level & middling level encounters. I think only the most difficult encounter was actually EL = or greater than party, but fighting through everything else was so much more satisfying than a bunch of CR = APL encounters that were each slug outs.
One of many recommendations I can offer is to beware pcs who take levels in the druid class. While druids shine fantastically throughout this AP, they can wreck havoc on outdoor locations, such as The Wreck, abode of the Crimson Fleet. The player of the storm druid in my campaign dropped a Control Weather spell that lasted for days to cause torrential rain flooding the Crimson Fleet base. Once they found out where the base was, the storm druid effectively leveled the place with 5 control winds spells, one stacked on top of the other, for 600 feet in every direction, with a whirlwind spell in the centre to suck up hapless pirates. The storm druid was the only one who could see (more than 5 feet anyways) due to the torrential rain, hurricane winds, and flying debris everywhere.
It was only afterwards, much to my regret, that I realized in PF, dispel magic allows you to dispel a magical effect without having to pinpoint its source or point of origin, so long as your dispel magic targets the ongoing area of effect (which the control weather and control winds were certainly eligible targets). D'oh!
CB out.
One of many recommendations I can offer is to beware pcs who take levels in the druid class. While druids shine fantastically throughout this AP, they can wreck havoc on outdoor locations, such as The Wreck, abode of the Crimson Fleet. The player of the storm druid in my campaign dropped a Control Weather spell that lasted for days to cause torrential rain flooding the Crimson Fleet base. Once they found out where the base was, the storm druid effectively leveled the place with 5 control winds spells, one stacked on top of the other, for 600 feet in every direction, with a whirlwind spell in the centre to suck up hapless pirates. The storm druid was the only one who could see (more than 5 feet anyways) due to the torrential rain, hurricane winds, and flying debris everywhere.
It was only afterwards, much to my regret, that I realized in PF, dispel magic allows you to dispel a magical effect without having to pinpoint its source or point of origin, so long as your dispel magic targets the ongoing area of effect (which the control weather and control winds were certainly eligible targets). D'oh!
CB out.
2 things to say:
1) That is smart of them, I would have allowed it, ohoho
2) I did exactly the same thing to my PCs every chance I got :P
I'm into my 5th run of this path. I have finally taken the plunge by switching over to PFRPG. So far it has been easy to convert. Ultimate Combat adds black powder and cannon to the mix which makes for very piraty roleplay. My current group is making their way back from Kraken's Cove. They are trying figure out how to sail the Sea Wyvern with a crew of 6.
Mechanically, boggards are the best for replacing the bullywugs. The savage fever is really scary if you only describe the symptoms as they progress. The key to that of course is making the saving throws in secret. The DR is an outstanding way to level the playing field especially if you have PC's that are not rich in magic weapons.
I borrow heavily from Pirates of the Inner Sea, Skulls and Shackles, Master and Commander of the far side of the World, and Pirates of the Caribbean. These are numerous ways I like to add flavor. Gunslingers, Buccaneers, Swashbucklers are all very good classes to run in the STAP.
and Paladins don't fit in well with the overall tone of the game, which is quite piratey.
Ken
Only the first four or five chapters. After that, Paladins fit more than anything, and a lot of the piratesque nature of the plot goes along the sideline.
Who can really say that a paladin cannot be a "pirate". History shows there were many religious figures aboard ships. Additionally, paladins would generally fall into the profession of "privateer" carrying letters of marque. They could be sanctioned by their church even.
Heck they could even be compared to Spanish Conquistadors...bring religion to the savages of the world.
2 things to say:
1) That is smart of them, I would have allowed it, ohoho
2) I did exactly the same thing to my PCs every chance I got :P
Yup, I allowed them to do the control weather, control winds, and whirlwind spells. It did not help (for the pirates, that is) that while the hurrican winds were in effect, the druid also dropped four sirocco spells upon the Wreck itself.
I meant to get "revenge" afterwards with the orlath demon but the little buggers got stupidly lucky with the dismissal spell by the oracle. She's a heal-bot and dismissal is one of the few offensive spells she got. It made their night, and I'm glad they had a great time. :)
CB out.
If you allow paladins, do not forget that this will create problems in Enemies of my enemy and Prince of Demons because of the Orcus plot. Of course it will be less of a problem if you stop at Tides of Dread.
AoW is harder than Savage Tide by a large measure. STAP certainly has some rough parts ('Here there be Monsters' and 'City of Broken Idols'), but no where near the TPK fest that's
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
Tankard, others have already converted STAP to Pathfinder. My best advice is to lean on our work! I've converted the latter chapters, and TBA has done the earlier ones. PM me your email address and I'll send you a link to my conversions.
As for the district feats to traits, I don't think it would be too unbalanced--but I would require everyone to take a district feat for one of their traits. If you think they're too powerful, just make them count for both of a starting character's traits instead; in this case, PCs could only get other traits by taking the Additional Traits feat.
Yup, like Bell said, a fair number of us have done conversions of the Savage Tide, myself included, although I have only completed from Serpents of Scuttlecove (because that's where we made the changeover from 3.5 to PFRPG) up to The Wells of Darkness. I intend to finish the rest of the adventures in the path but I want to be more familiar with the mythic rules first.
Swapping out the feats listed in the Guide for traits instead is a good idea. I also recommend the Story feats listed in Ultimate Campaign. Those really serve well for an adventure path.
The only real caution I would advise is having an imbalance in alignments between characters. The entire adventure path is literally a CN's wet dream to cause mischief and trouble for the rest of the party if he does not care about the welfare of the group. Also, one of the primary themes of the AP is "the lesser of two evils." With really good roleplaying and wise tactics, it is possible to not make deals with evil characters, but the hurdles to overcome will be bigger.
Try to avoid running big battles with multiple characters involved. Whenever possible, break it down so that the majority of it is running in the background with the focus on the pcs fight. Try to keep the pcs together whenever possible as well.
Finally, MUSIC! A good soundtrack is a massive tool in getting the right mood for this AP. Golismorga itself is a fun encounter if you do small little things to create the tension.
Above all, have fun! Strive to keep the players engaged in the storyline just as much as you keep them engaged with fights. Once in a while, give them a cutscene with foreshadowing of stuff that happens maybe 3 or four adventures down the road. Done right, this AP is probably the most enjoyable of the ones they published in Dungeon magazine.
If you want my conversions, PM me and I'll forward them to an e-mail address of your choice.
Cheers!
CB out.
The only real caution I would advise is having an imbalance in alignments between characters. The entire adventure path is literally a CN's wet dream to cause mischief and trouble for the rest of the party if he does not care about the welfare of the group. Also, one of the primary themes of the AP is "the lesser of two evils." With really good roleplaying and wise tactics, it is possible to not make deals with evil characters, but the hurdles to overcome will be bigger.
Honestly, this adventure path epitomized the reason that I always require good-aligned PCs.
A lot of people may disagree with me about "limiting player options," but I do so for precisely the same reason I enjoy video games with some restrictions more than just pure open sandbox games. The key is that everyone needs to have a good time, and the restrictions should be more like guidance than true railroading.
Honestly, if you just say at the beginning of the campaign, "I think this campaign is tailor-made for heroes" and nudge them a bit, a lot of people will be, like, "the DM, who knows everything about the whole AP, and who knows me personally, is telling me we will have more fun this way - therefore, I will trust the DM and play a hero." (Obviously this only works if your players trust you - you, not the "evil DM who wants to kill us all" - and if you know them...but if neither of those is true, what are you doing playing with these people?!)
I have also had plenty of experience with people who ALWAYS want to play neutral-aligned characters. It has never gone well. Ever. It may be a stereotype, but people who always play neutral characters because "it's how they play" are usually going to be the people who don't prioritize the other players. Obviously, not everyone agrees with me, but as I said, I have had enough very unpleasant experiences that I am convinced of this. I've also never said "all good players!" and had it backfire!
As it applies to the STAP - yes, the storyline is geared towards "choosing the lesser evil" and making compromises with evil creatures. But depending on how resolute (and ingenious...and lucky) they are, the players can still muscle through without compromising their morality too much. I would be very careful if phrases like "for the greater good" start cropping up...after all, the slippery slope is very slippery...if the party is going to make certain choices, make sure they know exactly how good (or evil) those choices really are. You diminish the importance of those choices and the overall drama of the campaign if you give them an easy way out all the time...but don't punish them for being decisive. Being a hero is difficult (even an anti-hero), but it should be rewarding.
Try to avoid running big battles with multiple characters involved. Whenever possible, break it down so that the majority of it is running in the background with the focus on the pcs fight. Try to keep the pcs together whenever possible as well.
Again, this is just my experience, but I found that a lot of the potential "big encounters" can actually be livened up a lot if you drag NPCs in. There are 2 caveats to this:
1) Only fights where the PCs are involved. During the Siege of Farshore (note those capitals! that was one of the highlights), I ran stuff for the massively expanded invasion. Not everyone or everything, but what happened was the party all split up and led different militia groups or just killed stuff on their own, so it was like running several combats simultaneously. (By prerolling a lot of stuff beforehand and figuring out one NPC group's actions while the PCs in another group was deciding what to do, I was able to avoid too much combat drag. I also had a few set pieces to haul out at the right time.) Everyone had so much fun with the Siege, both in terms of planning (several sessions' worth), the preliminary engagement at sea, then splitting up to fight the necromancers attacking the graveyard, the flight of wyverns and paratrooper hadozee pirates, the flesh golems, six Lemorian half-fiend captains, and finally Vanthus and his shadow pearl. (See the campaign website for more details.) Anyway. There were a lot of NPCs fighting "in the background" that I explicitly rolled for, and depending on how well or poorly they did against whatever they were fighting, the party could prioritize its own actions. It made for a very organic battle full of surprises, victories, and memorable moments. (I was looking forward to repeating all of this on a grander scale at the climactic invasion of Gaping Maw, but...sadly, we never got there.)
2) Only NPCs the players care about. If you play it right, you can get the PCs really involved with the crew of the Sea Wyvern and the Blue Nixie in TSWW. I chose to roleplay all of the Sea Wyvern's crew (made-from-scratch NPCs), and the party got very attached to them. It really gave that added emotional edge during Rowyn's attacks (especially because of the expanded nature of said attacks...see the campaign log :). During the Journey's End encounter and the shipwreck on the IoD, the party's efforts directly influenced whether and how many of said crew lived. (All of them. They tried REALLY HARD.) The crew, in turn, saved the party a few times, or at least helped. (Rowyn would have killed a few more people if not for the brave efforts of the crew.) This is a great way to pull the party out of the fire if they need it, a great roleplaying opportunity, and a great way to remind the players that their actions have consequences - after all, the NPCs can help, but if the players make a dumb decision everyone might die. You really don't want to overdo it and just use the NPCs as deus ex machina every time the players screw up, but it can be really rewarding for the players to (for example) come up with a plan that REQUIRES the NPCs to pull off something dangerous. You can really build up a sense of camaraderie if you do this right, which of course adds a lot of urgency if something (for example, Olangru!) goes horribly, horribly wrong. You have to really pick up on the NPCs your party gets along with, and it's sort of a balancing act to be subtle enough in spotlighting them while keeping the PCs in the limelight. But it is so worth it! :D
Finally, MUSIC! A good soundtrack is a massive tool in getting the right mood for this AP. Golismorga itself is a fun encounter if you do small little things to create the tension.
We made a Spotify playlist. Vanthus has one with "One-Winged Angel" and a few other boss music themes (the Ultimecia theme from FFVIII?) and a lot of Hollywood Undead, Papa Roach, Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, Stone Sour...Marilyn Manson! Basically songs about killing things, burning things, and getting away with murder :P
Lavinia had a much more ladylike playlist with a few emo Evanescence songs.
The party as a whole had a playlist...everyone had their own signature song that we played at random times...so yeah, music. Right. A must-have! (Look, CB, we agree about something! :)
Above all, have fun! Strive to keep the players engaged in the storyline just as much as you keep them engaged with fights. Once in a while, give them a cutscene with foreshadowing of stuff that happens maybe 3 or four adventures down the road. Done right, this AP is probably the most enjoyable of the ones they published in Dungeon magazine.
Again...couldn't agree more. The Savage Tide was really the best thing Paizo ever did. (Of course, I modified certain parts of it to "make it more awesome," in my opinion, and there were a few...weird...choices the developers made, but overall...!)
I would also like to say something about the end of the campaign. A lot of people are talking about how it should end after Scuttlecove. I completely disagree with that. Yes, keeping the pacing steady and keeping the party interested in everything can be difficult in this campaign - but that's what the job of a DM is! Done well, the party should be just as pumped up about rescuing Lavinia from Divided's Ire as they were about, say, chasing down Vanthus after he locked them under Parrot Island.
I've heard a lot of comments to the effect that the campaign doesn't tie together well enough ("The Abyss? We're going to the Abyss?! What?! I thought we were just after pirates!") but I disagree. It does, however, take a lot of very thorough foreshadowing - you want the party to remember things whose significance they didn't understand at the time, but which at later installments mesh together with the unfolding plot. Foreshadowing will make or break the party's interest in the late-campaign installments...foreshadowing, and character interactions with the NPCs. They have to really care about the NPCs. :)
Happy gaming!
We made a Spotify playlist. Vanthus has one with "One-Winged Angel" and a few other boss music themes (the Ultimecia theme from FFVIII?) and a lot of Hollywood Undead, Papa Roach, Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, Stone Sour...Marilyn Manson! Basically songs about killing things, burning things, and getting away with murder :P
My GM used Cry Little Sister as Vanthus' theme. He used Celes Theme for my (female) noble wizard PC.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
In one of the Dungeon mags, James Jacobs actually posts his STAP soundtrack track list. Some of them are hard to find, but in general, you can Youtube them.
EDIT: It was Dragon 355. See this thread: Music for the Savage Tide.
We made a Spotify playlist. Vanthus has one with "One-Winged Angel" and a few other boss music themes (the Ultimecia theme from FFVIII?) and a lot of Hollywood Undead, Papa Roach, Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, Stone Sour...Marilyn Manson! Basically songs about killing things, burning things, and getting away with murder :PMy GM used Cry Little Sister as Vanthus' theme. He used Celes Theme for my (female) noble wizard PC.
Dark Messenger for Vanthus here. My entire STAP playlist is pretty much taken from Final Fantasy 7-9 and Chrono Cross. (Worry not lovers of the SNES-era FFs, they were used/are to be used in a different campaign ;) )
The soundtrack for Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag is really good for some of the sailing and jungle themes found throughout the first half of the AP.
When my DMs ran it (played through twice), they used a lot of 'Pirates of the Carribean' 1-3 soundtracks, which also worked fairly well.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One of the music tracks I used was Frog's theme song from Chrono Trigger for whenever the pcs started a quest or embark on a journey. I guess I have a soft spot for classics.
CB out.
I ran War of the Wielded(dungeon adventure taking place in sasserine) as a drop in between chapter 2 and 3. One of my PC's was able to keep Saberhawk and still uses him to this day. (in chapter 8 now)
I took it as an opportunity to add a few more dealings with the various houses of the Dawn Council and to help the PC's get stronger ties to their various factions.
I expanded on the Tamoachan sidetrip in chapter 3, by pulling out the old 1st edition adventure and letting them explore further inside. It also allowed me to foreshadow tidbits of lore and forgotten magic from my overhaul mentioned below.
I gave the Olman of the Isle a complete rework, and gave them a magic system that was not found elsewhere. (It was a heavily overhauled/homebrewed varient of Incarnum/Binders) and when my PC's showed a great amount of interest in the locals, i added in another dozen subquests relating to the tribes in chapter 5(Tides of dread)
I had the PC's gain help from the Olman for the final fight of Chapter 5 one tribe at a time, having to do various tasks/solve specific tribal problems to gain their support.
I laid the foundation for Malcanthet's involvement much earlier, by making one of the recurring NPC's and game start friends a Thrall of hers (PrC)
One of my PC's was a sorcerer, and didn't know what bloodline he wanted so i 'gave' him one. Serpentblooded, from a yuan ti clan i made that was a former rival of the 7th coil. This led to extra fun with subplots in town as well as when in scuttlecove.
One of my PC's (druid) converted to worshipping Tlaloc during chapter 3. As such he was tasked with the quest of recovering/destroying Tlaloc's Tear in book 6 as a way to bypass the 'why should we break this' obstacle some others have mentioned. Destroying it frees the divine power he has invested into it and allows him to return to power among the rest of the Olman Deities.
Hmm. Those are all i can think of offhand, tho there are prolly more. Hope they help with the idea jogging on your end.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My GM used Cry Little Sister as Vanthus' theme.
Interesting choice...I like it :) I liked having multiple "themes" for Vanthus, though...he was too multifaceted a character (killing, betrayal, murder, hate, vengeance, arson, family, demons, pirates, uh...etc. :) to tie down with just one song.
:P
Since it just came up on the Pandora station I'm listening to at work, I was reminded...another one I liked for him was "A Demon's Fate" by Within Temptation.
Actually, there were a lot of them. I might just post the contents of my Vanthus playlist on here when I get home, for those who are interested...if I remember.
Referring to something earlier about not allowing paladins, I am running Tides of Dread right now, and one of the PCs is a paladin. However, this is a very strong Player who is a great roleplayer. I actually told her when the campaign began that playing a paladin would present some very serious challenges for her down the road, but she said essentially that she didn't want it to be easy. During HTBM, her PC was captured by Olangru, and I had the Player play an NPC, Captain Amella Venkalie, to whom I had been giving rogue levels. The party rescued the paladin, and it was a very thrilling adventure.
As for druids, I agree that they are potentially extremely powerful on and around the Isle of Dread, where dinosaurs roam. But the way I figure it, every class can have a chance to shine in this campaign. Those disallowing druids may not be considering the later adventures in the Abyss, where, I have no doubt, my paladin PC will shine.
Finally, let me second what everyone said about Lavinia and Vanthus. In my campaign, using Pathfinder rules, Lavinia has become the girlfriend of a male witch PC. It's been a lot of fun, because they have really grown to care about each other. When the party reached Farshore after IoD, she ran to him and hugged him, and it was a touching, tearful reunion. Oh, and just FYI, I went a different direction than most above - I gave her bard levels. It made sense to me, given that there is specific mention of her having learned violin at Thenalar Academy.
Well, I have to be the only person here whom ran it with a lawful evil party. Even in the evil party campaign I would echo that one of the most important things is establishing the connection with the NPCs (Vanthus must die was exclaimed many a night). Second, I would agree that you need to read through the entire campaign at least once to set up some foreshadowing (I used dreams and ritual induced visions to slip information about the abyssal connections). The issue with the evil party was making sure that you had someone taken in the later books that the party would actually chase into the abyss (in my case it was a PC who had been killed and resurrected by Vanthus [even evil characters can be loyal to their friends plus KILL VANTHUS!]).
One of my PCs was lawful evil. She had a strong connection with Glasya, and of course devils do not want a savage tide. It will disrupt all their fiendish political manipulations on prime material worlds.
This turned out to be a very strong motivation for her, also because she wanted to make a career and win Glasya's favor.
My GM used Cry Little Sister as Vanthus' theme.Interesting choice...I like it :) I liked having multiple "themes" for Vanthus, though...he was too multifaceted a character (killing, betrayal, murder, hate, vengeance, arson, family, demons, pirates, uh...etc. :) to tie down with just one song.
:P
Probably why I had a second one as well.
:P
- emphasize the weirdness of the underground environment in TLD; it really freaked my players out;
- your players do not need to do the whole of CoBi. My group used teleports a lot and therefore some of the encounters were skipped. However, they did all the important encounters in the order they chose, and it gave them the idea they were in control. So let your players control the pace of this one.