Arcane Duelist (bard) build


Advice


In a spell of bad luck (not an actual spell) one of my characters died, got resurrected, broke his leg, got it healed, and then managed to take 8 Con damage, all in 3 consecutive sessions. Given his condition, I've opted to roll up a new character for the campaign, and I figured I’d share it on here to organize my thoughts and ask for advice.

For what it's worth, the current party composition includes a Sorcerer, Fighter, Rogue, and Cleric. The Rogue took a 1 level dip in Wizard, and is going into the Arcane Archer Archetype, and the Cleric has started multiclassing into rogue (I think). There's also a Druid and Barbarian who occasionally join us. I'm building a level 10 Arcane Duelist Gnome who goes by Shrimpy. His backstory is underdeveloped, but part of the idea is that he’s a traveler/treasure hunter type guy with some history with pirates.

Gnome Racial Traits (* Alternate Racial Trait)
Racial Modifiers: +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, –2 Strength
Small: +1 size bonus to AC, +1 size bonus on attack rolls, –1 penalty to CMB and CMD, a +4 size bonus to Stealth
Slow Speed: 20 feet Low-Light Vision: See twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light
*Magical Linguist: +1 to the DC of spells cast with the language-dependent descriptor or those that create glyphs, symbols, or other magical writings and +2 racial bonus on saving throws against such spells
*Spell-like Abilities: 1/day—arcane mark, comprehend languages, message, read magic
*Eternal Hope: +2 racial bonus on saving throws vs fear and despair effects. 1/day, reroll natural 1 on d20
Keen Senses: +2 racial bonus on Perception checks
Obsessive: +2 racial bonus on a Craft or Profession skill of choice
Weapon Familiarity: Treat any weapon with the word "gnome" in its name as a martial weapon
Languages: Begin play speaking Common, Gnome, and Sylvan, and with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc
Favored Class Bonus: +1/level to total bardic performance rounds per day.

Rolled Stats: 18, 17, 12, 11, 15, 15 (we roll 4d6, remove the lowest, and reroll 10s and under)
After racial bonuses and bonus int and cha at lvls 4 and 8, I end up here.
Str (-1) 9 (-2 racial)
Dex (+4) 18
Con (+3) 17 (+2 racial)
Int (+3) 16 (+1 at 4)
Wis (+1) 12
Cha (+5) 20 (+2 racial) (+1 at 8)

At levels 12, 16, and 20 I'll probably stick the bonus stat into dex, dex, then con, unless I decide I want that con sooner for fort saves or HP.
I’m not 100% sure if I want to go with the -1 Str and +1 Wis mods, or swap those stats and have a 0 mod in both. I feel like the wisdom is more useful for will saves and skills, like Sense Motive and Perception. Strength would only help my CMD, and the off chance that I ever have to climb or swim, in which case I could Inspire Competence in myself.

For feats I’ve selected the following (B = Bonus feat from the Arcane Duelist archetype):

B1 Arcane Strike
1 Weapon Finesse
B2 Combat Casting
3 Two-Weapon Fighting
5 Step Up
B6 Disruptive
7 Craft Wondrous Items
9 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
B10 Spellbreaker
11 Discordant Voice
13 Weapon Focus (Rapier)
B14 Penetrating Strike
15 Critical Focus
17 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
B18 Greater Penetrating Strike
19 Staggering Critical

Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, and (Greater) Penetrating strike are great bonus feats to have. Disruptive and Spellbreaker drive home the idea that the Arcane Duelist is meant to deal with enemy casters, so I grabbed Step Up to get the most out of them.
I decided to go with a dex build because the racial penalty to Strength is no fun, and I should be able to make my Arcane Bonded weapon Agile pretty easily. This also makes a TWF build possible, and the dex bonus to AC partially makes up for my lack of shield. Bard guides I’ve read discourage TWF, but it looks pretty good to me. I can dual wield rapiers and make them both Keen and Agile, probably giving them energy burst abilities later on. 15-20 threat range goes a long way for a two-weapon fighter; especially since my group houseruled that a critical threat is an auto hit, even if it’s not a natural 20. That’s also why I grabbed Critical feats. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting might not be worth the feat, and could be traded out for some other good late game feat, or used to make room for Quickdraw which could be important, as mentioned below.
I grabbed Craft Wondrous Items so that I can get cheaper magic goodies, and my party should love me as well. I can already add abilities to my Arcane Bonded Weapon myself.
I didn’t grab any Metamagic feats because Metamagic Rods seem more practical for a caster with only 6 spell levels.

For Skills, Here’s what I’ve thrown together for level 10:

(6 + Int) * 10 = 90 Ranks
Skill: ranks(total bonus)
Acrobatics: 3(10), Appraise: 4(10), Bluff: 7(15), Climb: 1(3), Diplomacy: 7(15), Disguise: 2(10), Escape Artist: 3(10), Intimidate: 7(15), Knowledge (Arcana): 1(7), (Dungeoneerng): 1(7), (Engineering): 1(7), (Geography): 1(7), (History): 1(7), (Local): 1(7), (Nature): 1(7), (Nobility): 1(7), (Planes): 1(7), (Religion): 1(7), Linguistics: 4(10), Perception: 10(16), Perform (sing): 10(18), (wind instruments): 1(9), (string instruments): 1(9), Sense Motive: 6(10), Spellcraft: 10(16), Stealth: 3(14), Use Magic Device: 1(7)

I don’t usually drop 1s in all my class skills, but since bards get more ranks than most classes I figured he can afford to. I need max ranks in Spellcraft for crafting Wondrous Items, and 10 ranks in Perform (sing) for Discordant Voice. Intimidate is mostly for Rallying Cry, and the rest for their usual uses.

For Spells, Here’s what I’ve selected for level 10:

0-Level Spells (Cantrips): Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Mending, Prestidigitation, Summon Instrument

1st-Level Spells: Grease, Saving Finale, Moment of Greatness, Charm Person, Disguise Self

2nd-Level Spells: Create Treasure Map, Glitterdust, Silence, Locate Object, Mirror Image

3rd-Level Spells: Haste, Slow, Good Hope, Exquisite Accompaniment

4th-Level Spells: Virtuoso Performance, Wandering Star Motes

After level 10 I’ll probably grab the following:

11 1st: Silent Image, 4th: Shocking Image, Swap: 2nd Mirror Image for Invisibility
12 4th: Dimension Door
13 3rd: Dispell magic, 5th: Greater Heroism, Cloak of Dreams
14 2nd: Suggestion, 5th: Shadowbard, Swap: 4th Virtuoso Performance for Wall of Sound
15 5th: Deafening Song Bolt
16 4th: Hold Monster, 6th: Brilliant Inspiration, Project Image
17 3rd: Confusion, 6th: Euphoric Tranquility, Swap: None
18 6th: Irresistible Dance
19 5th: Song of Discord
20 4th: Greater Invisibility, 6th: Overwhelming Presence Swap: 2nd Invisibility for Alter Self

This means that by level 20 my spells will be the following:

0-Level Spells (Cantrips): Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Mending, Prestidigitation, Summon Instrument.

1st-Level Spells: Grease, Saving Finale, Moment of Greatness, Charm Person, Disguise Self, Silent Image

2nd-Level Spells: Create Treasure Map, Glitterdust, Silence, Locate Object, Suggestion, Alter Self

3rd-Level Spells: Haste, Slow, Good Hope, Exquisite Accompaniment, Dispell magic, Confusion

4th-Level Spells: Wandering Star Motes, Shocking Image, Dimension Door, Wall of Sound, Hold Monster, Greater Invisibility

5th-Level Spells: Greater Heroism, Cloak of Dreams, Shadowbard, Deafening Song Bolt, Song of Discord

6th-Level Spells: Brilliant Inspiration, Project Image, Euphoric tranquility, Irresistible Dance, Overwhelming Presence

Here are the Magic Items I’d like to get eventually.

Weapons: Two +5 Agile Keen Elysian Bronze Rapiers with +3 in other abilities (302,640g) (Arcane Bonded weapon is half price)
Armor: +5 Mithral Agile Breastplate with +5 in abilities (104,400g)
Total: 407,040g (Could be more if I choose to add abilities with a flat gp cost, such as Glamered or Spell Resistance)

Wondrous Items
Belt: Belt of Incredible Dexterity (4-36k), Meridian Belt (1k, 1.5k to combine)
Body: Resplendent Robe of the Thespian (75k)
Chest: Shirt of Immolation (8k), Tunic of Careful Casting (5k, 7.5k to combine)
Eyes: Pirate's Eye Patch (2.6k), Eyes of the Eagle (2.5k, 3.75k to combine)
Feet: Jaunt Boots (7.2k), Boots of the Cat (1k, 1.5k to combine)
Hands: Glove of Storing (10k), Deliquescent Gloves (8k, 12k to combine)
Head: Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5k), Circlet of Persuasion (4.5k, 6.75k to combine)
Headband: Headband of Alluring Charisma (4-36k)
Neck: Amulet of Natural Armor (2-50k), Hand of Glory (8k, 12k to combine)
Rings: Ring of Protection (2-50k), Ring of Energy Shroud (19.5k), Ring of Foe Focus (10k), Ring of Spell Storing (50k, or 18k for minor)
Shoulders: Cloak of Resistance (1-25k), Pauldrons of the Serpent (3k, 4.5k to combine), Cloak of Fiery Vanishing (2.6k, 3.9k to combine)
Wrist: Duelist's Vambraces (8k), Spellguard Bracers (5k, 7.5k to combine), Bracers of the Glib Entertainer (7.9k, 11.85k to combine)
Rods: Persistent Metamagic Rod (32.5k, or 9k for lesser), Lesser Quicken Metamagic Rod (35k)
Slotless: Handy Haversack (2k), 2X Scabbard of Keen Edges (16k each) ( Stone of Good Luck (20k)

Total: 591.55k (including combined items and maxed out items, such as Ring of Protection)

Some of these have much higher priority than others, and some are just relatively cheap things mostly for flavor. Theoretically, I could even stick +1 str ability on my belt for 1.5k to get rid of that ugly negative modifier.

Here are other rods that peak my interest: Immovable Rod (5k), Extend Metamagic Rod (11k, or 3k for lesser), Dazing Metamagic Rod (54k, or 14k for lesser), Piercing Metamagic Rod (11k, or 3k for lesser)

(Using Metamagic Rods (with the exception of Quickening) would increase cast time to a Full Round Action, so I’m not sure they’re worth it)

Here are some other slotless items that peak my interest, mostly for cheap: Page of Spell Knowledge (1-36k) , Volatile Vaporizer (2.2-3.8k), Snapleaf (750g), Bottle of Messages (300g), Iron Rope (750g), Stubborn Nail (100g), Wasp Nest of Swarming (1k)

I should be able to save around 250k crafting the Wondrous Items I want. Assuming my DM gives us recommended gold, I think I should be able to get all of this stuff by level 20.

With my 62k 10th level starting gold I’ll be able to buy the following:

Mithral Agile Breastplate (4,400g)
+1 Agile Elysian Bronze Rapier (5,320g) (crafted)
+1 Agile Elysian Bronze Rapier (9,320g)
Lesser Quicken Metamagic Rod (35,000g)
Handy Haversack (1,000g) (crafted)
Masterwork Spellcraft Tools (50g)
Masterwork Lute (100g)
Adventuring Gear (1,285g)

boring junk:
bedroll, belt pouch, blanket, canteen, coffee pot, coffee grounds(5lbs), compass, cot, explorer’s outfit, fishing kit, flask, flint and steel, grappling hook, grooming kit, hammock, ink, inkpen, iron pot, jewelry, journal, mess kit, mirror, patchwork cloak, rope, sheriff's whistle, skeleton key, small tent, smoked goggles, spell component pouch, spyglass, trail rations (5 days), Umbrella, weapon cord

That seems to cover the essentials and leaves me with 5,520 pocket change. I could grab some of those cheaper Wondrous items or save up for something bigger.

I’m not exactly sure how I’m going to make the Metamagic Rods work. I could hold it in my offhand and drop it after use, before drawing my second rapier, or retrieving it from a glove of storing as a free action.
I could try to sacrifice a feat for Quickdraw and start combat with the Metamagic Rod, and then drop it or store it in a glove of storing before drawing my offhand for the rest of the fight.
I’ve also flirted with the idea of enchanting the metamagic rod as a light mace and using it as my offhand weapon, but the rapier would be much better with increased crit range, and benefiting from my weapon focus and penetrating strike feats.
Any other Rods I might get would have to sit in my Handy Haversack and drawn as a move action, before taking up a full Round Action the next round to use.

For the big fights I could try to start with something like this:

Move Action: Inspire Courage Bardic Performance
Swift Action: Quickened Haste (Lesser Metamagic Rod)
Standard Action: Virtuoso Performance or Shadowbard (Bladethirst or Inspire Heroics)

Then engage the enemy in melee in the 2nd or 3rd round, after I’ve got some good Bardic Performances and other buffs/debuffs going.

That pretty much sums it.

I’d like a general review on my feat/spell selections and such.
Comments? Questions? Suggestions?


It occurs to me that the called ability would be another good option for my metamagic rod problem, and would negate the need for quickdraw. On the other hand, I'm not sure if a feat is worth the ability cost.


Hi sk8r_dan_man !

I’m gonna leave you some input. Hope you find it useful. :)

Sorry to say, I think you got some major problems with your build.

  • First is your lack of str. You won’t be dealing any damage at all and you have problems with encumbrance. Carrying capacity will be a problem even if you use Mithral Armor.

  • Second: rapier isn’t a light weapon so if you are going to use TWF you get huge penalties on your attacks.

  • Third: Not all bards have to be melee experts, but the Arcane Duelist is a melee archetype so I suggest you rebuild it from the ground. You don’t need more than 11 wisdom so something like this:

    Edit:

    Str: 18 (18 -2 racial + 1 level 4 +1 level 8.) You should boost it more by getting a belt.
    Dex: 15
    Con: 14 (12 +2 racial (or swap with int if you like)
    Int: 15 (or swap with con)
    Wis: 11
    char: 19 (17 +2 racial +1 at level 12)

    or:

    Str: 18 (18 -2 racial +2 belt.) or get a +4 belt.
    Dex: 16 (15 +1 level 4)
    Con: 12+2 racial (or swap with int if you like)
    Int: 15 ( or swap with con)
    Wis: 11
    char: 20 (17 +2 racial +1 at level 8)

  • Forth: There are times when you want to be able to use a rod and cast a spell: TWF pretty much makes this impossible. Since you will be able to use heavy armor and cast spells in heavy armor I suggest you drop the high dex build and use a two-handed weapon or a really cool one-handed weapon that you can swing in two hands if need be. Also if you drop the TWF chain you can grab some more useful feats.

  • Fifth: Weapon Focus is a rather weak feat. I suggest you remove it and pick some other feat. As A buffer you want to go first: Improved initiative is rock solid feat.
    Other feats: Discordant Voice isn’t bad. Power attack is also very nice (if you boost your str). Combat reflexes isn’t bad. Blind fight is also good and a very underrated feat. Heavy armor prof so you can get mithral full plate (Yes I know you get the feat for free later, but if you really love heavy armor :D). Or you can pick some archer feats so you can attack flying creatures. Don’t use cross bow or long bow. Short bow with strength bonus is fine. Deadly aim helps with damage and you already have arcane strike.

    Spells: You want Dimension Door, Heroism and feather step as soon as possible. Yes I know you have good hope, but you should also pick heroism and have it (and Feather step) always on. Use a Metamagic, Extend, lesser rod.

    Magic items:
    Must have: Metamagic, Extend, lesser – get two rods. Always buff yourself with Heroism and feather step.

    Ring of spell knowledge 2: I love this ring: Get shield as soon as possible. If you can’t afford the ring right now, get a wand.
    When you can afford it: Glove of Storing + Metamagic, Quicken, lesser rod.

    Must have wands:
    Long strider
    Mage armor
    CLW

    Other good wands:
    See invisibility
    Barkskin (make the group pay and buff everyone in the party).

    Scrolls: You want at least 2 scrolls with See invisibility if you can’t afford a wand. Get them from a wizard or sorcerer with spell level 2. Generall Advice: get a lot of utility scrolls.

    Skills: I agree you can add a rank in all knowledge skills so you can use them all, but adding ranks to all skills is bad. Skills like Escape Artist are pointless unless you max them out. You really should max out use magic device. Great if you want to use wands or scrolls, but also great if you want to simulate race or even alignment. So: Don’t spread out all skills. It is fine to spread out some of them, and yes you don’t have to max out all skills, not even perception, but you do want to max out UMD so you eventually get +19. With +19 you will never fail using a wand even if you roll 1.

    I’m not sure why you max out perform (sing). No need to. One rank is enough. Maxing out Intimidate is good so you can use Rallying Cry to greater success when needed.

    Question: why do you have more than two rings. are you using house rules? Ring of Energy Shroud isn't rally Worth it. Get some wands with resist energy instead.

    There are a loot more advice I can give you, but I first gonna wait for your respons.


  • BTW, What is "Masterwork Spellcraft Tools"?

    Edit:
    You really don'ty need more than 18 char at level 10 so perhaps 15 + 2 char is enough. Me, I like high char. :)

    But 17 +2 char also means you don't have to get a +2 headband of char. I guess you could swap char for dex. So dex 17 and char 15 +2.

    Edit 2:
    Advice nr 2: Try to focus on your 10 level char and how he/she will be built and what itmes he/she will be using at level 10.

  • How much cash are you going to have at level 10?
  • How much Wondrous Items will your GM let you Craft?


  • Thanks for the reply, but I think you missed a few crucial parts of my build.

    Zark wrote:
  • First is your lack of str. You won’t be dealing any damage at all and you have problems with encumbrance. Carrying capacity will be a problem even if you use Mithral Armor.
  • You seem to have missed the fact that my rapiers will have the Agile ability, which lets me use my dex mod for damage instead of str. If that wasn't the case, then I probably would have gone with more of a str build like you said, but it's not. With Weapon Finesse and Agile weapons, I don't need str for much of anything. I might have encumbrance problems, but if my DM chooses to enforce those rules (we usually don't) there are items to fix that, like the Heavyload belt.

    Zark wrote:
  • Second: rapier isn’t a light weapon so if you are going to use TWF you get huge penalties on your attacks.
  • TWF with the feat is -2 for all attacks, and -4 for offhand attacks if it's not a light weapon. If I used a light weapon, like a dagger, in my offhand it would only be a -2, but wouldn't benefit from my weapon focus (rapier). Effectively, a dagger would only be +1 attack bonus better than an offhand rapier, and since a keen rapier is 15-20 threat range and we houserule that ALL critical threats are auto hits (as I said in my original post) a rapier is generally going to hit more than a light weapon, and do more damage. I thought about using a lighter offhand, but it doesn't seem worth it.

    Zark wrote:
  • Third: Not all bards have to be melee experts, but the Arcane Duelist is a melee archetype so I suggest you rebuild it from the ground.
  • Zark wrote:
  • Forth: There are times when you want to be able to use a rod and cast a spell: TWF pretty much makes this impossible. Since you will be able to use heavy armor and cast spells in heavy armor I suggest you drop the high dex build and use a two-handed weapon or a really cool one-handed weapon that you can swing in two hands if need be. Also if you drop the TWF chain you can grab some more useful feats.
  • I hope you're not forgetting that the Arcane Duelist doesn't need a free hand to cast spells. Mixing in a Lesser Quickening Rod does have a few problems, as I mentioned, but it's not impossible. If I'm mostly just buffing up the party for the first round or two, I can manage to get off a quickened spell with the rod and still have both weapons in hand when I'm ready to attack.

    I think one of the main reasons I jumped at the opportunity to make him a TWF build was because of the 30% threat range on keen rapiers that I probably wouldn't use on many other characters.

    I probably won't even bother with any Heavy armor. I can't use it now, so I'd just be wasting money buying a new set that will just weigh me down more and only give me a +1 AC over what I've got, along with a bigger ACP. Plus I just don't picture Shrimpy as a full plate kind of guy.

    I'm not proficient with any Two handed weapons. Of the few weapons I am proficient with, the Rapier seems the best, as tempting as the Gnome Hooked Hammer might look. The rapier also just fits Shrimpy's style better than a longsword.

    Zark wrote:
  • Fifth: Weapon Focus is a rather weak feat. I suggest you remove it and pick some other feat. As A buffer you want to go first: Improved initiative is rock solid feat.
    Other feats: Discordant Voice isn’t bad. Power attack is also very nice (if you boost your str). Combat reflexes isn’t bad. Blind fight is also good and a very underrated feat. Heavy armor prof so you can get mithral full plate (Yes I know you get the feat for free later, but if you really love heavy armor :D). Or you can pick some archer feats so you can attack flying creatures. Don’t use cross bow or long bow. Short bow with strength bonus is fine. Deadly aim helps with damage and you already have arcane strike.
  • I might not have bothered with Weapon Focus if I didn't need it for Penetrating Strike. I did have my eye on Improved Initiative, and I still might swap out Greater TWF for it.

    I just took another look at Blind fight, and although it would be nice in case an invisible attacker sneaks up on me, that's about it, and I have spells to deal with invisible foes.
    I might carry around a shortbow and arrows just in case, but I've got spells to fall back on when enemies are out of reach.

    Zark wrote:

    Spells: You want Dimension Door, Heroism and feather step as soon as possible. Yes I know you have good hope, but you should also pick heroism and have it (and Feather step) always on. Use a Metamagic, Extend, lesser rod.

    Magic items:
    Must have: Metamagic, Extend, lesser – get two rods. Always buff yourself with Heroism and feather step.

    Ring of spell knowledge 2: I love this ring: Get shield as soon as possible. If you can’t afford the ring right now, get a wand.
    When you can afford it: Glove of Storing + Metamagic, Quicken, lesser rod.

    Must have wands:
    Long strider
    Mage armor
    CLW

    Other good wands:
    See invisibility
    Barkskin (make the group pay and buff everyone in the party).

    Scrolls: You want at least 2 scrolls with See invisibility if you can’t afford a wand. Get them from a wizard or sorcerer with spell level 2. Generall Advice: get a lot of utility scrolls.

    I think I'll switch Dimension Door and Wandering Star Motes.

    With Snapleaf, there's no need for feather fall, at least for myself.
    I might take you up on that extended heroism idea, but I'm not sure I wanna give up any of my 2nd level spells.

    If I do decide to grab heroism, I won't bother with a Ring of Spell Knowledge when I can get a Page of Spell knowledge for 2/3 the price that doesn't take up a ring slot.

    As for those wands, Mage Armor doesn't stack with other armor bonuses, and there are a lot of other items that do what longstrider does, without UMD. CLW is a great wand, but our cleric usually has us covered, and Soothing Performance seems pretty great. If we do need wands for anything, the Sorcerer should be able to use them, but we rarely ever bother with them. That's one of the main reasons I didn't bother listing any wands or scrolls.

    Skills: I agree you can add a rank in all knowledge skills so you can use them all, but adding ranks to all skills is bad. Skills like Escape Artist are pointless unless you max them out. You really should max out use magic device. Great if you want to use wands or scrolls, but also great if you want to simulate race or even alignment. So: Don’t spread out all skills. It is fine to spread out some of them, and yes you don’t have to max out all skills, not even perception, but you do want to max out UMD so you eventually get +19. With +19 you will never fail using a wand even if you roll 1.

    Zark wrote:

    I’m not sure why you max out perform (sing). No need to. One rank is enough. Maxing out Intimidate is good so you can use Rallying Cry to greater success when needed.

    Question: why do you have more than two rings. are you using house rules? Ring of Energy Shroud isn't rally Worth it. Get some wands with resist energy instead.

    I put 10 ranks in sing because it's a prerequisite for discordant voice.

    I selected 4 rings because the Meridian Belt lets you wear 4 at once, and the Hand of Glory even lets you wear another.
    Ring of Energy Shroud is more for the aura than the energy resistance, though come to think of it, I'm still not sure if the energy resistance type is related to the energy shroud type. Any extra ring slots will probably just be filled with Rings of Protection.

    Zark wrote:

    BTW, What is "Masterwork Spellcraft Tools"?

    Edit:
    You really don'ty need more than 18 char at level 10 so perhaps 15 + 2 char is enough. Me, I like high char. :)

    But 17 +2 char also means you don't have to get a +2 headband of char. I guess you could swap char for dex. So dex 17 and char 15 +2.

    Edit 2:
    Advice nr 2: Try to focus on your 10 level char and how he/she will be built and what itmes he/she will be using at level 10.

    How much cash are you going to have at level 10?
    How much Wondrous Items will your GM let you Craft?

    "Masterwork Tool" is an item in Ultimate Equipment. It basically says that Masterwork Tools can be made for any skill, as long as it only applies for a certain application of that skill. "Masterwork Spellcraft Tools" is just a name I gave to the Masterwork version of the tools I use to craft wondrous items.

    Since I can basically dump strength, charisma is really my second best stat. The higher my charisma, the higher the save DCs for my debuffs, and that's pretty important, I think.

    I already said in my original post that I'll be starting with 62k at level 10 (recommended wealth for that level).

    With that remaining 5,520g I'll probably craft my +2 Cloak of Resistance and Pirate eye Patch for looks. ;)

    I expect my GM should let me craft as much as I can, as long as I obey the rules and spend the time ingame doing it. I probably won't get everything I listed (like maxing all the scalable items), but I should be able to get the essentials.


    sk8r_dan_man wrote:

    Thanks for the reply, but I think you missed a few crucial parts of my build.

    Yes I did miss the agile thing.

    I still think you should get Improved initiative. Especially since you rely on dex.

    sk8r_dan_man wrote:
    With Snapleaf, there's no need for feather fall, at least for myself.

    Not feather fall. I said Feather Step.

    Also check out the ring, don't forget about scrolls and wands.

    Edit:

    sk8r_dan_man wrote:
    Effectively, a dagger would only be +1 attack bonus better than an offhand rapier

    No it is +2 better. I think I rather pick short sword, but if rapier is what you want gp for it.

    Best of luck.


    Ok slightly cheese filled suggestion here.

    As a gnome you can take the tinker racial ability then by throwing a rank on craft weapons you can make a pair of wakizashi which you are proficient in as you made them thusly bypassing the whole dual wield rapiers issue.


    I don’t know if I could be that polite to someone giving me extensive, detailed, completely wrong advice, sk8r. Well done.

    Anyway, your build is solid. I’ve a few suggestions, but you should have no problem contributing to your party’s success. Especially in comparison to some others in your party...cleric multiclassing into rogue, eh? Huh.

    Spells: I’m fond of all the great immediate spells that bards get. True, you plan to use your swift actions on rod-quickened spells much of the time, and Arcane Strike most of the rest of the time, but you’d still be wise to get one or more of Liberating Command, Timely Inspiration, Windy Escape (very nice in an auto-confirm crits campaign), Gallant Inspiration, and Foe to Friend. They’re not flashy spells, but if you have them when you need them, you’ll win encounters. I also recommend the Triple Time masterpiece as a way to boost your entire party’s speed. As a melee fighter with poor move, you’ll find Bladed Dash and/or Jester’s Jaunt fine ways to get into flanks and get out of trouble. Finally, an Unseen Servant can help you juggle metamagic rods and weapons to some degree, and is generally quite useful.

    Skills: You can’t Inspire Competence in yourself. You can Gallant Inspiration yourself, however. Consider putting some points into a visual performance so you can effectively use the Distraction performance against illusions, etc.

    Feats: I like Lingering Performance, not so much for the conservation of performance rounds as for keeping a performance going after a finale. Quickdraw is the only way I see you making metamagic rods work with rapiers.

    If you can talk your GM into letting you make both ends of a Gnome Hooked Hammer bonded weapon Agile, I’d really advise you to try that out. You get double the discount for enchanting it, you can inflict different damage types, you take less two-weapon penalty, your feats apply to both ends, and you can drop a metamagic rod and two-hand-grip your GHH with two free actions...the only downside is getting bigger crits instead of more frequent crits, and that’s potentially a new world of fun.

    Good luck, and enjoy!


    Zark wrote:
    No it is +2 better. I think I rather pick short sword, but if rapier is what you want gp for it.

    Two weapon fighting with 2 rapiers would drop my mainhand/offhand by -2/-4. Factoring in weapon focus, it's effectively a -1/-3. Using a dagger or short sword offhand would only be a -2 penalty for being light, but that's only 1 better than what I do with rapier, and rapier would benefit from penetrating strike and higher threat range, while another weapon wouldn't. That's what I meant.

    Also, I probably will end up swapping out Greater TWF for Improved Initiative.

    Bertious wrote:

    Ok slightly cheese filled suggestion here.

    As a gnome you can take the tinker racial ability then by throwing a rank on craft weapons you can make a pair of wakizashi which you are proficient in as you made them thusly bypassing the whole dual wield rapiers issue.

    What dual rapier issue would the wakizashi fix?

    I AM proficient with rapiers as a bard, if that's what you're thinking.

    Emmit Svenson wrote:
    Spells: I'm fond of all the great immediate spells that bards get. True, you plan to use your swift actions on rod-quickened spells much of the time, and Arcane Strike most of the rest of the time, but you'd still be wise to get one or more of Liberating Command, Timely Inspiration, Windy Escape (very nice in an auto-confirm crits campaign), Gallant Inspiration, and Foe to Friend. They're not flashy spells, but if you have them when you need them, you'll win encounters. I also recommend the Triple Time masterpiece as a way to boost your entire party's speed. As a melee fighter with poor move, you'll find Bladed Dash and/or Jester's Jaunt fine ways to get into flanks and get out of trouble. Finally, an Unseen Servant can help you juggle metamagic rods and weapons to some degree, and is generally quite useful.

    I like the immediate spells too, but I'm pretty sure Windy Escape is a spell exclusive to Sylphs.

    Our houserule isn't that critical threats are automatic critical hits; rather it's that they count as an automatic hit, just as a nat 20 normally would. We still have to confirm to see if the hit is critical or not.
    Timely Inspiration would be nice for when an ally narrowly fails a trap search or something, but it's otherwise a pretty low bonus that doesn't stack with inspire courage.
    I didn't grab Liberating command because I figured grease should be good enough, but maybe not.
    Gallant Inspiration is just a more powerful Timely inspiration.
    Foe to Friend was one of the last spells I cut from my list. I figured I have better crowd control spells, and my 5th level spells per day are probably better spent on other spells. It's still very tempting though.

    I only looked at spells from PRD so I didn't know about Bladed dash. That's a very intriguing spell. Dimension door is probably just about as good as Jester's Jaunt, and not worth sacrificing one of my great 3rd level spells. I'll more likely use magic items like Jaunt boots to improve my mobility.

    Unseen Servant certainly does seem useful, but it'd still be a move action to take weapons or items from it, right? That's no better than my Handy Haversack. I guess it could pick up anything I might drop, but I'm not sure I'll have to.

    I might still get some of these spells you've mentioned through a page of spell knowledge, if I decide I need them.

    Emmit Svenson wrote:
    Skills: You can't Inspire Competence in yourself. You can Gallant Inspiration yourself, however. Consider putting some points into a visual performance so you can effectively use the Distraction performance against illusions, etc.

    I didn't even think about distraction. I'm not sure if it'll ever come up, but maybe I'll stick a few points in dance or juggle or something.

    Emmit Svenson wrote:

    Feats: I like Lingering Performance, not so much for the conservation of performance rounds as for keeping a performance going after a finale. Quickdraw is the only way I see you making metamagic rods work with rapiers.

    If you can talk your GM into letting you make both ends of a Gnome Hooked Hammer bonded weapon Agile, I'd really advise you to try that out. You get double the discount for enchanting it, you can inflict different damage types, you take less two-weapon penalty, your feats apply to both ends, and you can drop a metamagic rod and two-hand-grip your GHH with two free actions...the only downside is getting bigger crits instead of more frequent crits, and that's potentially a new world of fun.

    I considered Lingering Performance, but I only grabbed one finale spell, and I have Exquisite Accompaniment if I need to conserve performances.

    With a glove of storing it pretty much comes down to dropping the rod or getting quickdraw, unless my DM let's me swap items with the glove as one free action, storing and retrieving at the same time. Is it worth the feat to not have to drop my rod? Maybe, maybe not. Which feat could I swap out for quickdraw?

    That Gnome Hooked Hammer is very tempting, but I'm afraid it doesn't quite add up. Different damage types is negligible once I get Penetrating Strike. Bigger critical does sound cool, but I'd only threaten crits 1/6 as often (1/3 with imp critical) and only crit for 1.5-2x more damage than rapiers. Also consider that my rapiers will double crit more often too (I think that's a houserule for consecutive critical rolls), so the higher crit multiplier of GHH really can't compete with the crit range of keen rapiers. I'm also not even sure if I could get both ends agile, but probably not.
    Ultimately I'd only gain cheaper enchantments, 2 less penalty for offhand attacks, and never have to drop my quickening rod (with glove of storing). GHH has potential, maybe for a str based char, but I see the rapiers coming out on top this time.

    Thanks for the ideas!


    Material cost of this spell is rich...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Create Treasure Map
    Components V, S, M (powdered metal and rare inks worth 100 gp)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ... I suppose you are assuming that you'll get it back by finding the treasure.


    I'm going to add my input here. Zark added a few things I would've said, but there are other important things to consider that he either skipped over or I simply disagree with:

    Priorities are what will allocate your stats. You want to have more crowd control, buffing, and debuffing power? Charisma is your #1, being able to lock down enemies, debuff them into dust, and make your allies titans is the Bard's primary function, so I second this. But, if you want to have more defense, Reflex Saves (which are already good to start), and Attack/Damage bonuses, Dexterity will be your #1. The opposite becomes your secondary.

    That being said, I'd recommend the Halfling over the Gnome, or even the Azata-Blooded Aasimar (which is better, since no statistic penalties, and significantly better abilities to work with), since the boost to Constitution isn't really warranted, given your array, and if you want Dexterity to be your go-to, not having the +2 to make it a 20 to begin is really going to hurt your melee effectiveness. But, it's your call, and if being a Gnome is that important, then I suppose a lack of some peak effectiveness can be spared.

    By the weapons of choice, it appears you want to be Crit Fishing. Bards aren't really the class to do it, but if you want to melee, that's the best option you got. I think having Rapiers to use is a pretty weak subject, and they aren't Light weapons, meaning TWF penalties are going to be through the roof; -4 to-hit on a 3/4 BAB class is going to hurt your odds of being effective in melee combat tremendously. The houserule would really be the only saving grace of your attacks.

    There is the Wakizashi, an Exotic Light weapon which does 1D4 (given your size, it's that much), but still has the 18-20/X2 multiplier you are looking for. Compared to Weapon Focus, taking a Proficiency feat in place of that for the Wakizashi to give both of your weapons an effective +2 to hit (in other words, reduced TWF penalties) is a lot more bang for your buck than having a +1 to hit for one single type of item.

    Regarding feats, I personally don't bother with Craft feats unless you're a Wizard who can get them for free, but if you want it and your group is fine with that, go for it. I also don't see much of a point of Step Up, since by the time it may become relevant, Spellcasters will be leaps and bounds ahead of you in terms of preparedness; you'd have to lock them down first with a spell, and by the time they're locked down and the group can focus, he's a dead dude. Problem is, for my build to work, those are gonna have to go. I'd recommend snatching Weapon Proficiency (Wakizashi) instead of Step Up for the +2 to hit, and the CWI should instead be Improved Initiative. Weapon Focus would help you out quite a bit, given you're 3/4 BAB, though it's not really worth a feat, when you can get the Additional Traits feat, bumping up your Initiative by 2 (stacks), as well as another cool trait. Or better yet, If you want to deal more actual physical damage, pick up Piranha Strike. It's Power Attack, but only for Light Weapons, so you don't need that 13 Strength. Just BAB +1 and Weapon Finesse IIRC are the pre-reqs, so you get +2 damage for your main hand and +1 for your off-hand, increasing by that per +4 BAB you possess.

    Getting 9 skills per level is a really nice perk; I wish my Bard could be that cool. I recommend Acrobatics/Escape Artist, UMD, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcane or Planes), Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Perception as skills to max out. From there, you can dip points into whatever suits your fancy, so you get 1 skill point per level to dip into stuff.

    Your spell list is all sorts of wonky. I'm assuming you picked several utility spells since that's what you feel would be the only time to cast spells. Very odd, since you get several unique buffs. Of course, if you were an Azata-Blooded Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity Racial Trait, you would be able to take the Human FCB, granting you an extra spell known per level, this problem would be avoided entirely.

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