Good precedent. A houserule could establish that 'punt' is also a movement-based maneuver, a sub-maneuver of Bull rush. If a bull rush is dealt to a creature one size category smaller than the initiator, said target takes damage equal to an unarmed attack from the initiator. The unarmed attack is considered as if by 1 size category larger for each size category smaller the target is from the initiator.
Empowered Punt would require Improved Bull Rush and BAB +6, and would deal damage as if a melee attack with the equipped weapon.
Violent Rush would allow Bull Rush to deal damage as specified above.
That allows for more damage with bull rush, but doesn't really result in the "send your opponent flying across the room" result that I was shooting for with punt. However, I agree that punt is pretty much just an addition to bull rush rules.
This is basically Awesome Blow. I would look into that if I were you (it's a feat and a class ability for Brawlers and Brothers of the Seal).
You're right. I'm pretty sure I've seen that feat before, but I forgot about it.
The distinction would be that this only works on creatures at least two size categories smaller than you, rather than just one, and you don't need to sink two feats into it.
Awesome blow is great and all, but for tiny and smaller creatures (assuming you're medium sized yourself), I don't think it should really require special training (two feats) to kick a rat across the room. That seems like something just about anyone should be able to attempt. You could just use a bull rush attempt, but the distance you can bull rush is disproportionate to the size of the creature, even with size penalties to CMD. Also, you can't normally usually use a weapon for a bull rush attempt.
Admittedly, I used bull rush rules as the basis for the punt rules, with a few changes and additions.
After a bit of research, I was surprised not to find anything to this effect; not even on the forums. So I'd like to discuss how we should do this here.
I propose the following rules for punting as a combat maneuver:
Punt:
You can attempt to punt a creature as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack. You can only punt an opponent who is at least two size categories smaller than you. A punt is an attempt to knock an opponent back, off their feet, through the air. Although the name implies it to be an unarmed maneuver (with the foot), any bludgeoning melee weapon may be used in a punt attempt (subject to GM discretion). If you do not have the Improved Punt feat, or a similar ability, initiating a punt provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.
If your attack is successful, your target takes normal weapon damage and flies back 5 feet. For every 5 by which your attack exceeds your opponent's CMD you you can make the target fly back an additional 5 feet. For every size category by which you exceed your opponent beyond 2, this distance is doubled. For example, an opponent 3 categories smaller is knocked back twice as far, 4 categories smaller is knocked back 4 times as far, and 5 categories smaller is knocked back 8 times as far. If your attack fails, your movement ends in front of the target.
An enemy flying through the air as the result of a punt does not provoke an attack of opportunity because of the movement. If the enemy flies into a square occupied by another creature and both can't occupy the same space (because of size), you must immediately make a punt check against that creature. You take a –4 penalty on this check for each creature being pushed beyond the first. If you are successful, that creature is pushed as if by a bull rush attempt (even though punt maneuver bonuses are used for the check), but additional creatures can't be pushed further than the distance of the original punt victim.
You cannot punt a creature through a square that is occupied by a solid object or obstacle unless it can fly over or past that object(DM discretion). If the punted enemy does collide with a solid object, then they take damage equal to 1d6 bludgeoning damage for every 10 ft remaining in their distance.
At the end of the movement, the punted enemy (but not additional pushed enemies) may make an acrobatics check (DC 10 + the amount your punt check exceeded their CMD) to avoid falling prone. If they succeed, they're instead staggered for one round. If the enemy has a flight speed, they use fly instead of acrobatics. Failure means they begin falling; otherwise they're staggered for 1 round. If they collided with a solid object before ending movement, then the DC is 25, as usual for colliding with a solid object.
For example a dwarven fighter is being attacked by a bat. He makes a punt attempt against the bat with his warhammer, and succeeds by 6. The bat takes the dwarf's usual weapon damage. Because the bat is Diminutive in size, it flies back 20 feet (base 5ft + bonus 5ft =10ft x 2 for size = 20ft). The bat can only travel back 10 feet before it collides with a wall, so it takes 1d6 bludgeoning and movement stops. Miraculously, the bat is still alive (must be someone's familiar) so it attempts a DC 25 fly check, but fails and falls prone next to the wall.
To those of you Orc barbarians who love kicking around goblins, I say use bull rush, or grapple and throw them, because even the strongest men can't really kick a 30-40 pound object any significant distance through the air (though a giant could). Punting small woodland creatures, over-sized insects, or pixies, however, seems feasible.
Here are a couple feats to go with punting:
Improved Punt (Combat):
You are skilled at punting smaller foes across the battlefield.
Prerequisite: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing a punt combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to punt a foe.
Greater Punt (Combat):
You can aim a punted enemies towards other enemies
Prerequisites: Improved Punt, base attack bonus +6, Str 15.
Punted enemies can function as an improvised thrown weapon, that can only be aimed at anyone in a cone shaped area in the direction between you and the punt victim, up to the distance determined by the punt check.
After succeeding on a punt check, make your ranged attack against an opponent in range. If you get bonuses to attack with the weapon used in the punt check, that applies to the ranged attack, but not to damage. You still take increment penalties for ranges further than 10 feet. The damage is equal to that of an unarmed strike from a creature of that size plus 1/2 your strength modifier. This attack and damage is used instead of the extra punt checks normally applied to push back additional creatures.
Here are a few things I'd like advice about:
Should it really provoke an attack of opportunity, and if not, what should Improved punt do, if anything?
Greater Punt is just a cool idea, if not very realistic. Is it too much, or should it work differently?
Should the punted enemy get the acrobatics check to avoid falling prone, or not?
I think the Fly check for flying creatures is still appropriate, because they're used to flying across the room, and can react better to the situation, but, I can't imagine many creatures other than a cat landing on their feet after being violently smacked across the room. At the very least, they should be staggered for one round.
What's a better word for this sort of maneuver, other than punt? Swat? Whack? Knockback?
Any other questions, comments or suggestions are welcome! :D
I was wondering this exact same thing the other day. When I'm looking through the feats for my characters, I nearly always skim right past these save boosts to get to the good stuff that's more specific to my character.
It's not a bad idea, but I always thought the problem with sneak attack was that it did damage and nothing else.
Thats one of the popular arguments, but what "the problem" is depends on the viewpoint of the person talking about sneak attack. The complaints I remember are:
-Situational (need flanking or loss of dex bonus)
-Immune creatures (slimes, et al)
-Not enough damage (need huge weapon or two weapons)
-Its only damage (injured creatures still function at 100%)
-Low attack bonus (rogues don't have full-BAB)
-Ranged SA is hard (no flanking)
I kind of dig some of the issues. In my perfect little world, a warrior like the fighter should win in a straight up fight, and a warrior like the rogue should win when there is an advantage to exploit. We're not quite there yet.
I think it's pretty good the way it is, though I've admittedly never played a rogue.
I think of sneak attack as the martial equivalent of a save or die spell. You can't use them all the time, and they don't always work, but when they do, the damage is huge. For sneak attacks especially, I'm in favor of the Massive Damage rules, requiring a fort save to avoid death if you take too much damage from a single blow. A knife in the kidney should be lethal, at least some of the time.
Obviously some creatures are going to be immune to precision damage, just as some are immune or highly resistant to other damage types.
I'm not sure if I can agree that the damage is too low, considering it's still a lot more than any other martial class can dish out in a single blow, without additional feats that the rogue can also take. Sneak attacks can be applied to every hit in a full attack action, in the right situations.
I could agree with the "it's only damage" argument, except that that's the case with all HP damage in PF. There's no penalty for being injured, unless dirty tricks or sub-targeting are used. There's definitely room for improvement in this area of the game, but it's not a problem exclusive to sneak attack. There are at least a few rogue talents that add extra effects to sneak attack, though there should probably be a few more.
As others have said, Sorcerers and Bards are about the only arcane casters that might exist in that sort of world.
If you want to tone down the magic a bit though, I'd suggest giving sorcerers the spell progression that bards normally get, so they only get up to 7th level spells, but they'd still have the same spell list. 8th and 9th level spells would just be unheard of.
As for bards, maybe give them 1/2 spell progression that sorcerers normally get, maxing at 5th level spells, or possibly removing their spell casting and substituting a full BAB progression, or more/better performances.
My main concern though regarding magic is magic items. What's available? If you're not going to give them magic items, then you're going to have to tone down the CR of encounters to compensate, because magic items make a huge difference in mid-high level.
I saw those encounter tables, but I personally don't think I'd ever use them, because the level range is too great. At best, I'd just use them to get an idea for the different creatures in that sort of environment, but I wouldn't risk rolling some CR 10 baddie for a lvl 5 group, or a bunch of 1/3 CR goblins for them either.
One of your parents was a gifted spellcaster who not only used metamagic often, but also developed many magical items and perhaps even a new spell or two—and you have inherited a fragment of this greatness. Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level.
Bold mine.
The spell's actual level is 1 lower when calculating the final adjusted level, not 1 lower for each metamagic applied to it.
I don't know where the metamagic master ability comes from, but I expect it functions the same, and I'm not sure if the two even stack, though they might.
As others said above, you should read how Maximize and Empower work. When both are used on the same spell, they apply separately, so if it would normally deal 4d6, then it instead deals 24+(4d6)/2 with both metamagics applied.
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons that are not light weapons. An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger. In addition, any bull rush combat maneuver the wielder attempts while wielding the weapon gains a bonus equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus; this includes all bull rush attempts, not only those in which a weapon is used, such as Bull Rush Strike, Shield Slam, or Unseat
It's not exactly the same as what you were going for, but it does function to maximize a weapon's base damage. Ignoring the bonus to bull rush, you could apply a similar effect to a gnome weapon. Just make it a small battlaxe, that deals the damage of a medium sized battleaxe.
Or, you could make it do the damage of a small battleaxe, but with a higher crit range, or crit multiplier, as another idea.
Or, going with the whole wood chopping idea, give it a bonus to sunder attempts against wooden objects.
Personally, I don't see the "ignores strength penalties to damage" as a very useful property, because any gnome looking for a melee weapon probably has the strength to use one effectively.
I noticed that you added a lot of homebrew material to the tool, and found the thread where you pulled all that new material from.
I'm all in favor of more qualities, disadvantages, and governments, but the modifiers granted by these new features seem underdeveloped, in my opinion, and might not work for everyone.
I propose that you add a "custom" option to the list of qualities, disadvantages, and governments, so that we can easily add our own homebrew material, or modified versions of those that you've added. The interface could look something like this:
:
Add information below and Save Changes to add a new custom quality/disadvantage.
Name:
Description:
Modifiers: Corruption: (-5 to +5) Crime: (-5 to +5) Economy: (-5 to +5 Law: (-5 to +5) Lore: (-5 to +5) Society: (-5 to +5)
Danger: (-10 to +10) Base Value: (-30% to +30%) Purchase Limit: (-50% to +50%) Spellcasting Level: (-3 to +3)
Other:
Modifier selections would be drop down menus, except for "Other" which would be a text box.
I don't think you should necessarily remove the homebrew material from the tool, because most of them are quite good, but you should at least denote them as 3rd party content.
If possible, you could even let us save custom made features to our accounts to be listed among other qualities/disadvantages/governments when making other settlements.
On the topic of rolling stats, what my group does is we roll 4d6, and take the sum of the highest 3 for the attribute, and then reroll any attributes that are 11 or lower, so that everyone has at least a +1 in each ability (before applying penalties). Put a minimum on how low a random attribute can be, to prevent some unlucky players from being stuck with a lot of below average stats.
Still, it's possible, and even quite common, for players to end up with a lot of low stats, near the minimum, so after all 6 attributes are tallied up, we rule that the player can choose to reroll all 6 of them, or stick with what they've got.
I'm not sure this is the best way to do it, but I go along with it. I usually keep rerolling all of my stats until I get at least one 17 or 18 for my main stat.
Of course, this still leaves players open to the possibility of several 16+ stats, and it's technically possible to just keep rerolling until you get all 18s.
When it's my turn to DM, I'll probably rule that every time you reroll your 6 stats, one of the new stats takes a cumulative -1. This way players can't easily keep rolling forever until they get a few 17s and 18s, without seriously nerfing some of their other stats, which is similar to the point buy method, but still leaves the excitement of random chance, and a smaller range of possible stats.
The effects of sitting or kneeling are listed in the Combat chapter and are essentially half those of being prone (-2 AC versus melee, -2 to melee attacks, +2 AC versus ranged). I don't think it's specified, but I've said that it's a free action to kneel or sit and a move action that provokes AoO to stand up from such.
Before anyone else mentions it, the effects and action economy of riding a mount are considerably different.
Sounds good to me, except I'm not sure that standing up from a chair should necessarily consume a whole move action. A player should be able to stand up from a chair and still be able to move at least half their movement speed as the same move action, in my opinion. Either way, any player should be able to reduce standing up from sitting or kneeling to a swift action with an acrobatics check (maybe DC 5 or 10). I'm also not sure dropping to your knees or butt should be a free action, but I guess that depends on the situation.
Per Kayerloth's comment, one might think that aging effects should apply here, but they don't affect things like movement speed or any other actions, so even a venerable adventurer can be expected to be reasonably fit. They do take penalties to physical stats though, so an acrobatics check to stand up in one swift motion would naturally be more difficult for an older character.
If a magic item gives skill bonuses it costs (bonus squared)x100.
But what if the item only gives a bonus to part of the skill? Like a bonus to survival for tracking only but nothing else.
It sounds to me like what you're looking for isn't necessarily a magic item at all.
Masterwork Tool:
Price 50 gp; Weight 1 lb.
This tool is perfect for its intended job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). The bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items do not stack.
Several common items already count as masterwork tools for particular skills. These are the alchemist's lab, climber's kit, disguise kit, healer's kit, masterwork musical instrument, and masterwork thieves' tools. Therefore, there is no masterwork climber's kit, masterwork healer's kit, and so on—those items are already the best available for general checks with the relevant skill.
Some skills have no appropriate tool or masterwork tool—no nonmagical item exists that grants a bonus for all uses of that skill. For example, just because a certain perfume is favored by local nobles (granting a +2 circumstance bonus on Diplomacy checks to influence them) doesn't mean that perfume has the same effect on a member of the thieves' guild, a foreign berserker, or a medusa. Likewise, just because a fake beard woven by dwarves out of the beards of famous dwarves may grant a +2 circumstance bonus on Use Magic Device checks to emulate the dwarven race doesn't mean the beard has any effect on using that skill to activate elven items or paladin items, or to decipher a written spell.
Individual GMs may want to allow masterwork tools for other skills at the listed cost. The circumstance bonus for such a tool should never be more than +2. The tool should either have a limited number of uses (such as the disguise and healer's kits) or only apply to certain aspects of the skill (such as the balancing pole's bonus on Acrobatics checks to traverse a narrow surface or the magnifying glass's bonus on Appraise checks for detailed items).
In this case, you could talk to your DM about getting some tool that specifically helps you with tracking creatures (get creative). You can only get a +2 with this, but it's much cheaper than a magic item and it doesn't consume a worn item slot.
For magic items though, skill bonus are quite cheap. A +2 survival, for example, would only cost 400 gold. Per the rules, you could even get skill bonuses added to any existing wondrous item for a 50% price increase, or (bonus squared)x150, which is still very cheap compared to other magic items. You should talk to your DM about this first though, because you'll probably have to have it specially made, and the function of the magic item should make sense. For example, it wouldn't make sense to get goggles of +5 jump.
I don't think I've ever used the core rules for town wealth. We always just asked our DM if there was a blacksmith or magic shop in town, and if so, then we bought what we needed. I can see it working alright with a normal 4 player group, but when you've only got one character, the majority of the items randomly generated in a town are going to be useless to that character, and you might be wasting your time generating them. If your PC is newer, or doesn't care as much about itemization, then I imagine it could be quite interesting to wander into the local magic shop and find that there are x, y, and z items available. I still think you should give them the option to buy whatever they can afford within the price range, even if that means there's a 25% chance it's unavailable, or they have to wait for someone to craft it for them.
Because witches have to learn (or rather teach their familiar) the majority of their spells from scrolls, like a wizard, then you need to decide how much you want to railroad her build through itemization. I think she should be able to buy whatever spell scrolls are available when she can afford them, and there's always that 25% chance that what she wants won't be available in that village. Also remember that she has to spend time burning and feeding all those scrolls to her familiar, so be sure to discuss what she's doing in her downtime. She is still greatly limited by the number of spells she can prepare per day, so you might as well let her expand her options to her heart's desire.
Still, I can think of a couple good options for you to limit the availability of magic items in your village.
The rules say that if you want a low magic world, you can just halve the wealth and number of items in a given town, so you can do that if you like. She'll still be able to buy any 1st or 2nd level scroll in your village though.
A really simple adjustment in line with the "low magic world" idea would be to decrease the availability chance of items she wants to 60% or maybe even 50%. You should let her try again though after a few days, if she's going to be staying in the village for a while.
You could also say that the 500gp limit for the village is the total wealth not counting the random magic items that you generate. As such, she could only buy up to 500 gp worth of items, with 75% chance of availability, before there's only the randomly generated items left. You can then restock the village every few days or so if she's going to be staying there a while.
Or, you could say that the 500gp items rule only applies to mundane items, and she can only get magic items like scrolls if you randomly generate them as part of the town's magic items. This could turn out quite badly for the PC though, because there's only a 35% chance that a minor magic item will be a scroll (even smaller chance for medium or major items), and then she has to hope that that scroll is of a witch spell!
Maybe instead of generating random magic items for the village, you just roll for the number of magic items in the village, and say that's the maximum number that she can buy, while still incurring the 75% availability chance. In your village, this would mean she can only buy up to 2d4 (average 5) minor scrolls (lvl 0-3) and 1d4 (average 2.5) medium scrolls (lvl 2-5) assuming she's not interested in any other magic items. At least in this case, you've set a limit to the number of items she can buy.
At 3rd level she should only have about 3,000gp worth of equipment. Assuming she's already spent about 500-1000 gp on her current gear, she can only afford about 2-2.5k worth of items anyway. You can limit how much she can spend by limiting how much money you gains from loot.
I really don't think you need to limit her access to scrolls past the 75% availability chance that's already in place, but hopefully I've given you some good ideas on how to go about it if you choose to.
And could go with two minds (two heads 4 arms sounds fun) but then comes negative stuff of he might get confused what of you confuse/knock out one mind. And so on so yes still one mind
Now I really want to see 2 players playing as 2 halves of the same 2 headed person. This comes to mind.
Isn't praying to gods to receive the blessings of spell effects EXACTLY what a divine caster does when they cast a divine spell? Why introduce a new skill something for somethign that already exists.
I agree. Ain't skills all about "realistic" stuff ...except Use Magic Device and stuff ;) Seems silly you'd have gods giving you freebies just for praying for them. Otherwise EVERYONE takes prayer as a skill. Heck I'd take skill focus and whatever it takes to get free spells! Let's not have another Iajutsu Focus!!
Point is. This just seems like you're just trying to turn the cleric class feature of spells --> skill.
In case you missed it, I posted above that prayer points would require costly rituals to recharge, so the blessings of the gods are hardly freebies.
Also, I'd like for this not to be a gate way to free spells. Spells were just an easy way to quantify blessings and calculate DCs for the mechanics of the skill, and not really part of what I intended. Really, a character can pray for anything appropriate to their god, and make a skill check against a DC based on the power and specifics of their prayer to see if their god favors their request. The DM can get creative and come up with whatever they think is appropriate. Maybe the blessing duplicates a spell, or maybe it doesn't. Even so, it's going to be a less powerful effect than a cleric could give you.
Isn't praying to gods to receive the blessings of spell effects EXACTLY what a divine caster does when they cast a divine spell? Why introduce a new skill something for somethign that already exists.
Simply because any character can worship a god. If their god doesn't have an impact on their lives, why would they worship them?
The difference is that divine casters commit their lives to the faith, and channel the powers of their gods into their works. Prayer just makes the aid of the gods available to any character who chooses to worship them, and to a much lesser degree. Prayer grants access to fewer blessings more slowly than any caster, and the skill check can me failed.
I don't want to take anything away from the divine casters with this. In fact, I'd like for this to help them just as much, if not more than other characters. At the same time though, this can serve as a weaker substitute for a group lacking a divine caster.
For the most part though, I just feel like worshiping a god should have some mechanical purpose for all classes, even if just for certain campaigns.
I was hesitant at first, but I'm leaning towards the idea that characters should have to pay to recharge their prayer points.
If a character wants to have the aid of their god at their disposal, they should be willing to make a sacrifice to them, like a tithe.
To keep it simple, and similar to the price of divine scrolls (on average), I think 100 gp per prayer point worth of incense, herbs, or other sacrifice appropriate to your god is a good number.
With this in place, characters could recharge their prayer points as often as they're willing to pay, and spend the time doing it.
Here's a new idea for how this could work. These changes give prayer less versatility, because characters can't be sure what they're going to get. It's less like casting free spells, and more like praying for divine intervention, as intended.
Prayer points can be restored each day through 1 hour of worship, just as described in my original rules.
Attempts to restore points multiple times in the same day is difficult, and requires a wisdom check against DC 10 + current prayer points. If successful, the character regains 1 missing prayer point.
To use prayer points, the PC spends a full round action praying for a blessing from their chosen deity.
The PC can be as vague or specific as they like in their prayer, but specific requests cost more prayer points, and effectively have higher DCs.
The base prayer point cost is 2 x prayer level. Prayer level (equivalent to spell level) still can't be more than 1/4 character level.
Prayers for any blessing cost +0 points
Prayers for a specific type of blessing (self buff, ally buff, enemy debuff, enemy damage, etc) cost +2 spell points
Prayers for a specific spell or effect cost +4 spell points
DC = 15 + prayer points spent
The DM chooses which blessing is granted upon a successful prayer check (or can even roll a random spell if they wish). The spell should ideally be chosen from one of the deity's domains, and the spell level should be appropriate to the number of prayer points the PC spent. The DM is free to come up with their own blessings of similar power if there is no appropriate spell among the deity's domains. The domains are more like guidelines for blessings, than the hard and fast list of options.
For example
Suppose my 10th level monk and his party find themselves up against a room full of ghosts. My monk decides to pray to his god, Erastil, for the power to slay them. I'm only 10th level so I can't pray for more than a 2nd level blessing (1/4 character level). I've got 10 ranks in prayer, and thus 10 prayer points. I spend 4 of them praying for a 2nd level blessing. My request was for a specific kind of blessing (more power) so it costs me 2 more spell point, for a total of 6. This makes the DC 21. I roll an 11 and add my prayer modifier of 13 (10 ranks + 3 wis mod) for a result of 24. Success!
The DM looks at Erastil's domains and sees that the 2nd level spells are Hold Animal, Shield Other, Align Weapon (good), Align Weapon (law), and Barkskin. None of these would give me the power I prayed for, and Ghostbane Dirge would be ideal, but doesn't really fit Erastil's personality. The DM sees that the plant domain gives a power called Wooden Fist which seems appropriate, and grants that effect to my monk as if he was a 5th level cleric for 5 rounds (1/2 character level). I gain +2 damage on my unarmed attacks for 5 rounds.
Alternatively, the DM could have granted me the benefit of a different domain power (like touch of good or touch of law), or made up a different bonus equivalent to a 2nd level spell from a 5th level cleric.
Initially, the idea didn't even involve spells. The skill was just suppose to let players pray to their gods for appropriate blessings. I figured most of the blessings that you might pray for could be duplicated by divine spells, so that became an easy way to quantify the power and DC of prayers.
Quote:
If you're absolutely adamant you do not want to introduce a cost to this, then prayer points will need to be far more limited. A mere 1 hour of downtime to restore them is insufficient. Refreshing your prayer points should be a once-per-week event. If it's going to be daily, then some form of limitation or price is necessary. Having any spells granted by prayers count against your next day's spell slot allotment would be one possible solution.
Maybe there could be some cost for prayers, but I'd like to avoid that extra complication. I'll agree that it should probably take longer to recharge prayer points. I also kind of like the idea of a once per week event, except for the extra book keeping that that would require. I will probably make prayers cost twice as much, as the current rules seem to offer too many prayers per day.
A magical item that boosts prayer? That sounds a little odd, even if that is how it apparently works in the real world....
I'm not for a prayer skill because that gives those who pray an inherent advantage over those who don't in a much different capacity than those who use disable device over those who don't.
You can create magical items that boost any skill. I don't see why this skill should be any different in that respect.
Each skill has its place, and some are always going to be more useful than others. Comparing the advantages of prayer to disable divice is like comparing apples and oranges. For the best comparison, you should probably take a look at Use Magic Device and tell me why a skill that gives any player access to spells is a bad idea.
UMD requires a scroll, wand, or other such item to activate. That requires a monetary investment (or treasure find) before you can use the skill, and even then the kinds of effects you can reproduce are limited by the items currently in your possession. The skill you've created is far broader, replicating a large list of spells with no forethought or investment required. It can also be used repeatedly throughout the day with no additional cost.
What you've done here is really weird. It uses skill ranks like a skill, is dependent on class level like a class feature (or possibly a feat), and behaves more like a magic item. I'm also concerned that this is a bit of an unnecessary buff to divine casters, and also favors the wisdom-based ones over the charisma-based ones.
Spellcasters can already do something similar to your "prayer" skill by investing cash in scroll and wands, and unless the player in question is inexperienced or a cheapskate that's a fairly normal kind of item to have in your inventory. It's an intentional counter-balance; if you want to stretch your spells-per-day allotment (either for more variety or more castings) you need to shell out the cash to do so. A little number crunching indicates a 4th level Cleric with maxed ranks in this skill should be able to handle an average of 3 CLW's per hour via prayers. This is completely out of line when compared to the "heal" skill and what it can do, and more comparable to magic items.
My suggestion is to forget the skill and create an item for this purposes. It should have a cost-per-use associated with it to keep it balanced (probably in the form of offerings during the "recharge" process), and it's cost-per-use should be roughly on par with a wand. The costing formula per charge for a wand is spell-level*caster-level*15
Thanks for the feedback.
However, I think UMD is much more versatile than Prayer. You can get wands/scrolls for any arcane or divine spell at any level, while prayer would only apply to certain divine spells, and the 1-4 level spells that prayers can get you would be cheap as wands or scrolls anyway. You can only pray as many times per day as you can afford with your prayer points. One change I might make is to have prayers cost twice as many points as prayer level instead, to help balance it out, reducing possible prayers per day.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is a lesser metamagic rod of quicken spell.
The ability to swift cast 3 spells per day up to level 3 is super great for a bard. Many of your best spells are 3rd level (haste, slow, good hope, exquisite accompaniment, confusion). If you fork out the extra dough for a medium metamagic rod of quicken spell, you can use it on any of your spells, but I think a lesser rod is good enough, and 2 would help you more than one medium rod.
It's hard to make metamagics work on a bard without rods because you only have up to 6th level spells, making level adjustments hurt. Other good metamagic rods include Persistent, Extend, Dazing, and Piercing. A glove of storing is a great way to keep your rod of choice handy.
As for a few other items, a tunic of careful casting will help with your concentration checks, and the usual ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, and cloak of resistance are great for any class.
Common soldier praying as a battle is about to begin, might get bless spell with a DC 17 prayer check after one minute, lasting for one minute.
A powerful cleric might manage to cast a breath of life in time with a DC 34 prayer check [15 + 2*5 (level) + 9 (reduce time to 1 round)].
How often do you know that you're going to have to fight in approximately 2 minutes? You rarely have 1 minute to prepare, and still be able to benefit from that spell 1 minute later. Spells that take up to a minute to cast either last for hours, or are very powerful.
By that rule you'd pretty much have to be a dedicated divine caster to benefit from prayers, which rather defeats the point.
Majuba wrote:
I could see prayer points being per level instead of per day, if you gave this as free instead of spending skill points.
"Choose one domain of your god" sounds like a good starting point. I do think classes with the Aura class feature (like Clerics and Paladins) should be able to use this for any spell on their list, or perhaps any domain spell.
The limited spells and effects you could get from prayers would be similar to a domain spell list, but just having each player pick a domain of their god wouldn't quite work. You'd only get 9 spells, four of which are of spell level 6+ (never accessible by my 1/4 char level rule) and the option of praying for something that isn't a spell wouldn't really make sense. I think it's better for the characters to have access to many low level spells and effects that fit a similar theme than to gain one specific spell of each level, all the way up to 9th.
This skill would already give divine spell casters access to more low level spells per day. I don't think it should let them cast extra high level spells as well.
The Prayer takes 1 round per level of desired effect
Pretty much what I was about to suggest. "Praying time" (i.e. casting time) should be longer - maybe start at 1 minute, but reduceable by increasing the DC. Or perhaps meeting the DC takes 1 minute, reduced by 1 per point over (minimum "1 round"). Double time if moving and praying.
I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but I don't see why they should take longer to cast, especially up to a minute! The duration is already shortened because most spells last rounds/caster level and prayers have 1/2 caster level. The DC is also pretty hard to hit, so it's not easy to make every prayer attempt successful unless you're a divine caster already, and/or invest in feats or magical items to boost your prayer modifier.
If you get ambushed by a gang of orcs, you might want to pray for your god's blessing, but you're not going to waste 10 rounds doing it. Spells already have their effects balanced to their casting times, so I see little reason to change that, especially when prayer attempts can be failed.
This seems overpowered for a skill, and I don't like the fact that a skill can grant you magical spells. That's not what skills do.
What does Use Magic Device do then?
I think the rules I've come up with quite reasonably prevent this skill from being over powered. If you think I'm wrong, then perhaps you could come up with some more balanced rules, or explain why the idea won't work.
Don Hastily wrote:
I do see a use for these rules. If you wanted to start a campaign setting where EVERY character can ask his god for help, these rules would be a good start.
That's pretty much what I'm after. Divine casters aren't the only ones who worship gods, so everyone should be able to ask their god for help, if they invest their time and effort into prayerful worship. This would be a good skill for any religious character.
As he watched the giants march ever closer over the hill, the Barbarian prayed to Gorum for strength in battle. Seeing his faith, Gorum granted him his blessing, and the benefits of the Deadly Jaugernaut spell.
This is the idea behind this new skill. Characters who otherwise wouldn't have access to divine spells can pray to their deities for certain appropriate blessings.
I'm unsure how exactly I'd like the skill to work, but here's my idea so far.
Prayer (Wis) is a class skill to all divine casters.
Characters can use this skill to cast certain divine spells appropriate to their deity, as prayers. These prayers do not need to be prepared or learned as a divine caster's spells. The prayer's level is the same as the equivalent divine spell level. If the spell is a different level for different divine caster classes, the lowest level counts as the prayer level.
Save DC of prayers is 10 + prayer level + Wis.
The character must beat a DC of 15 + 2 x prayer level, or there is no effect.
Concentration checks do not apply to spells cast as prayers, and neither does Arcane Spell Failure chance.
The prayer's level can't be more than 1/4 the character's level.
The caster level of the prayer is 1/2 character level.
Characters gain "prayer points" equal to the number of ranks in this skill.
Using this skill consumes a number of prayer points equal to the level of the prayer (minimum 1), even if it fails.
Prayer points are regained after one hour spent in reverence and prayer, or less time at an appropriate altar or with the aid of a divine caster of your deity. Divine casters regain prayer points when preparing their spells, without needing to spend extra time.
Which spells can be cast as prayers depends on the character's deity, and would be a limited list, kind of like a domain spell list. I'm not sure how exactly I'm going to decide which spells can and can't be accessed with this skill, except by reading up on the PC's diety, and judging if the spell is appropriate. Not every deity is going to grant you Summon Monster and Cure Wounds spells, for example.
The prayer doesn't even have to be limited to a specific spell. It could be something like, "I'm praying I don't trigger any traps on this lock" and the DM could grant them a bonus depending the level of the prayer, which is equal to the number of prayer points spent. These sorts of non spell prayers are typically a standard action with a rounds/caster level duration, like most spells, but could be different at DM's discretion.
In a 3.5 campaign consisting of a Minotar, Dwarven Dragon Shaman, and Vampire (all some alignment of evil except for the vampire), I figured this would be a great chance to try out a Necromancer, with all of those cool spells and abilities that are harder to make work in a good aligned party.
After reaching 3rd level my friend playing the vampire decides he's not so fond of his character choice, and opts to reroll a new character, which we're all cool with. At first I was somewhat relieved, because that Vampire didn't like the idea of my dark magic fiddling with the undead.
Then I just found out that the new character he's chosen is a Lawful Good Paladin/Cleric/Monk who's all about healing and cleansing the world of, well, people like my Dread Necromancer. As you can understand, this is a big wrench in my plans for this character. To the same token though, he's also wanted to play a character like his for a while too, and the rest of the party could benefit from a good healer.
I don't want to ask him to pick a different character, and he hasn't asked me to either, but I really don't see how we can make this work. What made him think that his character could fit in this party is beyond me, but he's made his decision, and I'm genuinely scared for my character's future now.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. How can we coexist?
In case it helps, here's my character's back story.
David Frankenstien:
My grandfather was a great wizard and innovator in the necromantic arts. In the pursuit of a more powerful form of arcane resurrection and immortality, he performed many dark experiments in the house where my father, Frodrick (yes, like from the movie "Young Frankenstein") grew up. Whether from some dark ritual or just prolonged exposure, my father gained a certain affinity for negative energy. After meeting the love of his life, my mother, he cut all ties from the family business so that he could be with her.
I lived a mostly normal life, except for a strange condition that prevented wounds from healing by most clerical means, though my father was able to heal me, somehow. About a month ago I discovered an old journal/magic book stored away that revealed the truth to me about my grandfather, and incite into my condition. I got caught attempting some of the magic described in the journal, and when our ties to Necromancy were revealed, we were forced to flee the country.
While at sea, our ship was attacked by pirates and my mother and I kidnapped. I became separated from my mother a short while later, and I haven't seen either of my parents since.
I was taken to a pirate island and found work with a party of adventurers, continuing my grandfather's work in the dark arts.
Side Note: I actually started out playing as Frodrick at level 1, and what turned him back to Necromancy is a slightly different story. Unfortunately, he tragically died to a high damage crit, escaping from prison with the rest of the party. They later met up with David at level 2 on the pirate island, so I could still play a Necromancer.
I agree about the lost crit chance, and would only expect to see people use this feat on attack rolls when they really need to land that hit, like to finish off a monster's last bit of HP, or to apply a weapon ability or poison or something like that.
I see this as a really powerful feat for a skill monkey, especially if your group uses critical failure rules. Even if you could still crit on a 3 or 18 with this feat, the chances are greatly reduced.
I'd also probably use this to reduce the uncertainty for saves that I have high bonuses for. With an 80% chance at a 7-14 roll, I can save with greater confidence.
Even without knowing the exact DCs you're up against, you do know which skills and saves you're good at, and can tell when a roll close to 10 should be good enough. The idea is that you're so skilled at certain tasks, that you can reduce the variability of your results. You're consistently good, even if not great.
Most of us have probably heard about the option of rolling 3d6 in the place of a d20 roll.
I had an idea to make this option available through a feat.
Feat:
Equilibrium
You can focus to perform adequately at most tasks, neither great, nor poor.
Benefit: You can choose to roll 3d6 instead of a d20 on any attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. This allows you to perform more consistently, rolling 7-14 over 80% of the time. On attack rolls, you cannot miss on a natural roll of 1, nor threaten a critical hit on an attack unless your weapon normally would threaten on an 18 or lower.
To put things in perspective, here's a chart demonstrating the chance of success, depending on the roll result needed.
Chart:
The left column is the minimum roll result needed for success.
The middle column is the chance of success on a normal d20 roll.
The right column is the chance of success on a 3d6 roll (rounded to the nearest .1%)
As you can see, this feat is beneficial when you only need a 10 or lower to succeed. As such, one might choose to use this feat when they have a particularly high modifier, to hopefully minimize their chance of failure.
For example, this feat is great for saving throws, when you already have a high bonus, like a rogue making a reflex save.
Another example is certain skill checks. Using this feat is similar to taking 10, except there's still a small range of uncertainty, and they don't need to be free of distractions or threats. You can think of it as a "take 7" feat, with a 90.7% chance of success, that you can use at any time.
A fighter with high attack bonuses could also use this to minimize his miss chance, and the cost of critical chance.
As a feat, should it have a prerequisite, like 13 Wis?
Do you think you would ever take this feat? Why or why not?
Would it be better as a default option, item ability, or spell?
No it is +2 better. I think I rather pick short sword, but if rapier is what you want gp for it.
Two weapon fighting with 2 rapiers would drop my mainhand/offhand by -2/-4. Factoring in weapon focus, it's effectively a -1/-3. Using a dagger or short sword offhand would only be a -2 penalty for being light, but that's only 1 better than what I do with rapier, and rapier would benefit from penetrating strike and higher threat range, while another weapon wouldn't. That's what I meant.
Also, I probably will end up swapping out Greater TWF for Improved Initiative.
Bertious wrote:
Ok slightly cheese filled suggestion here.
As a gnome you can take the tinker racial ability then by throwing a rank on craft weapons you can make a pair of wakizashi which you are proficient in as you made them thusly bypassing the whole dual wield rapiers issue.
What dual rapier issue would the wakizashi fix?
I AM proficient with rapiers as a bard, if that's what you're thinking.
Emmit Svenson wrote:
Spells: I'm fond of all the great immediate spells that bards get. True, you plan to use your swift actions on rod-quickened spells much of the time, and Arcane Strike most of the rest of the time, but you'd still be wise to get one or more of Liberating Command, Timely Inspiration, Windy Escape (very nice in an auto-confirm crits campaign), Gallant Inspiration, and Foe to Friend. They're not flashy spells, but if you have them when you need them, you'll win encounters. I also recommend the Triple Time masterpiece as a way to boost your entire party's speed. As a melee fighter with poor move, you'll find Bladed Dash and/or Jester's Jaunt fine ways to get into flanks and get out of trouble. Finally, an Unseen Servant can help you juggle metamagic rods and weapons to some degree, and is generally quite useful.
I like the immediate spells too, but I'm pretty sure Windy Escape is a spell exclusive to Sylphs.
Our houserule isn't that critical threats are automatic critical hits; rather it's that they count as an automatic hit, just as a nat 20 normally would. We still have to confirm to see if the hit is critical or not.
Timely Inspiration would be nice for when an ally narrowly fails a trap search or something, but it's otherwise a pretty low bonus that doesn't stack with inspire courage.
I didn't grab Liberating command because I figured grease should be good enough, but maybe not.
Gallant Inspiration is just a more powerful Timely inspiration.
Foe to Friend was one of the last spells I cut from my list. I figured I have better crowd control spells, and my 5th level spells per day are probably better spent on other spells. It's still very tempting though.
I only looked at spells from PRD so I didn't know about Bladed dash. That's a very intriguing spell. Dimension door is probably just about as good as Jester's Jaunt, and not worth sacrificing one of my great 3rd level spells. I'll more likely use magic items like Jaunt boots to improve my mobility.
Unseen Servant certainly does seem useful, but it'd still be a move action to take weapons or items from it, right? That's no better than my Handy Haversack. I guess it could pick up anything I might drop, but I'm not sure I'll have to.
I might still get some of these spells you've mentioned through a page of spell knowledge, if I decide I need them.
Emmit Svenson wrote:
Skills: You can't Inspire Competence in yourself. You can Gallant Inspiration yourself, however. Consider putting some points into a visual performance so you can effectively use the Distraction performance against illusions, etc.
I didn't even think about distraction. I'm not sure if it'll ever come up, but maybe I'll stick a few points in dance or juggle or something.
Emmit Svenson wrote:
Feats: I like Lingering Performance, not so much for the conservation of performance rounds as for keeping a performance going after a finale. Quickdraw is the only way I see you making metamagic rods work with rapiers.
If you can talk your GM into letting you make both ends of a Gnome Hooked Hammer bonded weapon Agile, I'd really advise you to try that out. You get double the discount for enchanting it, you can inflict different damage types, you take less two-weapon penalty, your feats apply to both ends, and you can drop a metamagic rod and two-hand-grip your GHH with two free actions...the only downside is getting bigger crits instead of more frequent crits, and that's potentially a new world of fun.
I considered Lingering Performance, but I only grabbed one finale spell, and I have Exquisite Accompaniment if I need to conserve performances.
With a glove of storing it pretty much comes down to dropping the rod or getting quickdraw, unless my DM let's me swap items with the glove as one free action, storing and retrieving at the same time. Is it worth the feat to not have to drop my rod? Maybe, maybe not. Which feat could I swap out for quickdraw?
That Gnome Hooked Hammer is very tempting, but I'm afraid it doesn't quite add up. Different damage types is negligible once I get Penetrating Strike. Bigger critical does sound cool, but I'd only threaten crits 1/6 as often (1/3 with imp critical) and only crit for 1.5-2x more damage than rapiers. Also consider that my rapiers will double crit more often too (I think that's a houserule for consecutive critical rolls), so the higher crit multiplier of GHH really can't compete with the crit range of keen rapiers. I'm also not even sure if I could get both ends agile, but probably not.
Ultimately I'd only gain cheaper enchantments, 2 less penalty for offhand attacks, and never have to drop my quickening rod (with glove of storing). GHH has potential, maybe for a str based char, but I see the rapiers coming out on top this time.
Thanks for the reply, but I think you missed a few crucial parts of my build.
Zark wrote:
First is your lack of str. You won’t be dealing any damage at all and you have problems with encumbrance. Carrying capacity will be a problem even if you use Mithral Armor.
You seem to have missed the fact that my rapiers will have the Agile ability, which lets me use my dex mod for damage instead of str. If that wasn't the case, then I probably would have gone with more of a str build like you said, but it's not. With Weapon Finesse and Agile weapons, I don't need str for much of anything. I might have encumbrance problems, but if my DM chooses to enforce those rules (we usually don't) there are items to fix that, like the Heavyload belt.
Zark wrote:
Second: rapier isn’t a light weapon so if you are going to use TWF you get huge penalties on your attacks.
TWF with the feat is -2 for all attacks, and -4 for offhand attacks if it's not a light weapon. If I used a light weapon, like a dagger, in my offhand it would only be a -2, but wouldn't benefit from my weapon focus (rapier). Effectively, a dagger would only be +1 attack bonus better than an offhand rapier, and since a keen rapier is 15-20 threat range and we houserule that ALL critical threats are auto hits (as I said in my original post) a rapier is generally going to hit more than a light weapon, and do more damage. I thought about using a lighter offhand, but it doesn't seem worth it.
Zark wrote:
Third: Not all bards have to be melee experts, but the Arcane Duelist is a melee archetype so I suggest you rebuild it from the ground.
Zark wrote:
Forth: There are times when you want to be able to use a rod and cast a spell: TWF pretty much makes this impossible. Since you will be able to use heavy armor and cast spells in heavy armor I suggest you drop the high dex build and use a two-handed weapon or a really cool one-handed weapon that you can swing in two hands if need be. Also if you drop the TWF chain you can grab some more useful feats.
I hope you're not forgetting that the Arcane Duelist doesn't need a free hand to cast spells. Mixing in a Lesser Quickening Rod does have a few problems, as I mentioned, but it's not impossible. If I'm mostly just buffing up the party for the first round or two, I can manage to get off a quickened spell with the rod and still have both weapons in hand when I'm ready to attack.
I think one of the main reasons I jumped at the opportunity to make him a TWF build was because of the 30% threat range on keen rapiers that I probably wouldn't use on many other characters.
I probably won't even bother with any Heavy armor. I can't use it now, so I'd just be wasting money buying a new set that will just weigh me down more and only give me a +1 AC over what I've got, along with a bigger ACP. Plus I just don't picture Shrimpy as a full plate kind of guy.
I'm not proficient with any Two handed weapons. Of the few weapons I am proficient with, the Rapier seems the best, as tempting as the Gnome Hooked Hammer might look. The rapier also just fits Shrimpy's style better than a longsword.
Zark wrote:
Fifth: Weapon Focus is a rather weak feat. I suggest you remove it and pick some other feat. As A buffer you want to go first: Improved initiative is rock solid feat.
Other feats: Discordant Voice isn’t bad. Power attack is also very nice (if you boost your str). Combat reflexes isn’t bad. Blind fight is also good and a very underrated feat. Heavy armor prof so you can get mithral full plate (Yes I know you get the feat for free later, but if you really love heavy armor :D). Or you can pick some archer feats so you can attack flying creatures. Don’t use cross bow or long bow. Short bow with strength bonus is fine. Deadly aim helps with damage and you already have arcane strike.
I might not have bothered with Weapon Focus if I didn't need it for Penetrating Strike. I did have my eye on Improved Initiative, and I still might swap out Greater TWF for it.
I just took another look at Blind fight, and although it would be nice in case an invisible attacker sneaks up on me, that's about it, and I have spells to deal with invisible foes.
I might carry around a shortbow and arrows just in case, but I've got spells to fall back on when enemies are out of reach.
Zark wrote:
Spells: You want Dimension Door, Heroism and feather step as soon as possible. Yes I know you have good hope, but you should also pick heroism and have it (and Feather step) always on. Use a Metamagic, Extend, lesser rod.
Magic items:
Must have: Metamagic, Extend, lesser – get two rods. Always buff yourself with Heroism and feather step.
Ring of spell knowledge 2: I love this ring: Get shield as soon as possible. If you can’t afford the ring right now, get a wand.
When you can afford it: Glove of Storing + Metamagic, Quicken, lesser rod.
Must have wands:
Long strider
Mage armor
CLW
Other good wands:
See invisibility
Barkskin (make the group pay and buff everyone in the party).
Scrolls: You want at least 2 scrolls with See invisibility if you can’t afford a wand. Get them from a wizard or sorcerer with spell level 2. Generall Advice: get a lot of utility scrolls.
I think I'll switch Dimension Door and Wandering Star Motes.
With Snapleaf, there's no need for feather fall, at least for myself.
I might take you up on that extended heroism idea, but I'm not sure I wanna give up any of my 2nd level spells.
If I do decide to grab heroism, I won't bother with a Ring of Spell Knowledge when I can get a Page of Spell knowledge for 2/3 the price that doesn't take up a ring slot.
As for those wands, Mage Armor doesn't stack with other armor bonuses, and there are a lot of other items that do what longstrider does, without UMD. CLW is a great wand, but our cleric usually has us covered, and Soothing Performance seems pretty great. If we do need wands for anything, the Sorcerer should be able to use them, but we rarely ever bother with them. That's one of the main reasons I didn't bother listing any wands or scrolls.
Skills: I agree you can add a rank in all knowledge skills so you can use them all, but adding ranks to all skills is bad. Skills like Escape Artist are pointless unless you max them out. You really should max out use magic device. Great if you want to use wands or scrolls, but also great if you want to simulate race or even alignment. So: Don’t spread out all skills. It is fine to spread out some of them, and yes you don’t have to max out all skills, not even perception, but you do want to max out UMD so you eventually get +19. With +19 you will never fail using a wand even if you roll 1.
Zark wrote:
I’m not sure why you max out perform (sing). No need to. One rank is enough. Maxing out Intimidate is good so you can use Rallying Cry to greater success when needed.
Question: why do you have more than two rings. are you using house rules? Ring of Energy Shroud isn't rally Worth it. Get some wands with resist energy instead.
I put 10 ranks in sing because it's a prerequisite for discordant voice.
I selected 4 rings because the Meridian Belt lets you wear 4 at once, and the Hand of Glory even lets you wear another.
Ring of Energy Shroud is more for the aura than the energy resistance, though come to think of it, I'm still not sure if the energy resistance type is related to the energy shroud type. Any extra ring slots will probably just be filled with Rings of Protection.
Zark wrote:
BTW, What is "Masterwork Spellcraft Tools"?
Edit:
You really don'ty need more than 18 char at level 10 so perhaps 15 + 2 char is enough. Me, I like high char. :)
But 17 +2 char also means you don't have to get a +2 headband of char. I guess you could swap char for dex. So dex 17 and char 15 +2.
Edit 2:
Advice nr 2: Try to focus on your 10 level char and how he/she will be built and what itmes he/she will be using at level 10.
How much cash are you going to have at level 10?
How much Wondrous Items will your GM let you Craft?
"Masterwork Tool" is an item in Ultimate Equipment. It basically says that Masterwork Tools can be made for any skill, as long as it only applies for a certain application of that skill. "Masterwork Spellcraft Tools" is just a name I gave to the Masterwork version of the tools I use to craft wondrous items.
Since I can basically dump strength, charisma is really my second best stat. The higher my charisma, the higher the save DCs for my debuffs, and that's pretty important, I think.
I already said in my original post that I'll be starting with 62k at level 10 (recommended wealth for that level).
With that remaining 5,520g I'll probably craft my +2 Cloak of Resistance and Pirate eye Patch for looks. ;)
I expect my GM should let me craft as much as I can, as long as I obey the rules and spend the time ingame doing it. I probably won't get everything I listed (like maxing all the scalable items), but I should be able to get the essentials.
A shield or suit of armor with this special ability is covered with jagged burrs and razor-sharp serrations that saw and grind whenever the wearer is grappled or entangled. Any creature succeeding at a grapple combat maneuver check against the wearer takes damage equal to the armor or shield's enhancement bonus (with each successful check) as the barbs and blades bite into it. This special ability counts as armor spikes for the purpose of making attacks on the wearer's turn.
It occurs to me that the called ability would be another good option for my metamagic rod problem, and would negate the need for quickdraw. On the other hand, I'm not sure if a feat is worth the ability cost.
In a spell of bad luck (not an actual spell) one of my characters died, got resurrected, broke his leg, got it healed, and then managed to take 8 Con damage, all in 3 consecutive sessions. Given his condition, I've opted to roll up a new character for the campaign, and I figured I’d share it on here to organize my thoughts and ask for advice.
For what it's worth, the current party composition includes a Sorcerer, Fighter, Rogue, and Cleric. The Rogue took a 1 level dip in Wizard, and is going into the Arcane Archer Archetype, and the Cleric has started multiclassing into rogue (I think). There's also a Druid and Barbarian who occasionally join us. I'm building a level 10 Arcane Duelist Gnome who goes by Shrimpy. His backstory is underdeveloped, but part of the idea is that he’s a traveler/treasure hunter type guy with some history with pirates.
Gnome Racial Traits (* Alternate Racial Trait)
Racial Modifiers: +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, –2 Strength
Small: +1 size bonus to AC, +1 size bonus on attack rolls, –1 penalty to CMB and CMD, a +4 size bonus to Stealth
Slow Speed: 20 feet Low-Light Vision: See twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light
*Magical Linguist: +1 to the DC of spells cast with the language-dependent descriptor or those that create glyphs, symbols, or other magical writings and +2 racial bonus on saving throws against such spells
*Spell-like Abilities: 1/day—arcane mark, comprehend languages, message, read magic *Eternal Hope: +2 racial bonus on saving throws vs fear and despair effects. 1/day, reroll natural 1 on d20
Keen Senses: +2 racial bonus on Perception checks
Obsessive: +2 racial bonus on a Craft or Profession skill of choice
Weapon Familiarity: Treat any weapon with the word "gnome" in its name as a martial weapon
Languages: Begin play speaking Common, Gnome, and Sylvan, and with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc
Favored Class Bonus: +1/level to total bardic performance rounds per day.
Rolled Stats: 18, 17, 12, 11, 15, 15 (we roll 4d6, remove the lowest, and reroll 10s and under)
After racial bonuses and bonus int and cha at lvls 4 and 8, I end up here.
Str (-1) 9 (-2 racial)
Dex (+4) 18
Con (+3) 17 (+2 racial)
Int (+3) 16 (+1 at 4)
Wis (+1) 12
Cha (+5) 20 (+2 racial) (+1 at 8)
At levels 12, 16, and 20 I'll probably stick the bonus stat into dex, dex, then con, unless I decide I want that con sooner for fort saves or HP.
I’m not 100% sure if I want to go with the -1 Str and +1 Wis mods, or swap those stats and have a 0 mod in both. I feel like the wisdom is more useful for will saves and skills, like Sense Motive and Perception. Strength would only help my CMD, and the off chance that I ever have to climb or swim, in which case I could Inspire Competence in myself.
For feats I’ve selected the following (B = Bonus feat from the Arcane Duelist archetype):
Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, and (Greater) Penetrating strike are great bonus feats to have. Disruptive and Spellbreaker drive home the idea that the Arcane Duelist is meant to deal with enemy casters, so I grabbed Step Up to get the most out of them.
I decided to go with a dex build because the racial penalty to Strength is no fun, and I should be able to make my Arcane Bonded weapon Agile pretty easily. This also makes a TWF build possible, and the dex bonus to AC partially makes up for my lack of shield. Bard guides I’ve read discourage TWF, but it looks pretty good to me. I can dual wield rapiers and make them both Keen and Agile, probably giving them energy burst abilities later on. 15-20 threat range goes a long way for a two-weapon fighter; especially since my group houseruled that a critical threat is an auto hit, even if it’s not a natural 20. That’s also why I grabbed Critical feats. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting might not be worth the feat, and could be traded out for some other good late game feat, or used to make room for Quickdraw which could be important, as mentioned below.
I grabbed Craft Wondrous Items so that I can get cheaper magic goodies, and my party should love me as well. I can already add abilities to my Arcane Bonded Weapon myself.
I didn’t grab any Metamagic feats because Metamagic Rods seem more practical for a caster with only 6 spell levels.
For Skills, Here’s what I’ve thrown together for level 10:
I don’t usually drop 1s in all my class skills, but since bards get more ranks than most classes I figured he can afford to. I need max ranks in Spellcraft for crafting Wondrous Items, and 10 ranks in Perform (sing) for Discordant Voice. Intimidate is mostly for Rallying Cry, and the rest for their usual uses.
For Spells, Here’s what I’ve selected for level 10:
Here are the Magic Items I’d like to get eventually.
Weapons: Two +5 Agile Keen Elysian Bronze Rapiers with +3 in other abilities (302,640g) (Arcane Bonded weapon is half price)
Armor: +5 Mithral Agile Breastplate with +5 in abilities (104,400g)
Total: 407,040g (Could be more if I choose to add abilities with a flat gp cost, such as Glamered or Spell Resistance)
Wondrous Items Belt: Belt of Incredible Dexterity (4-36k), Meridian Belt (1k, 1.5k to combine)
Body: Resplendent Robe of the Thespian (75k)
Chest: Shirt of Immolation (8k), Tunic of Careful Casting (5k, 7.5k to combine)
Eyes: Pirate's Eye Patch (2.6k), Eyes of the Eagle (2.5k, 3.75k to combine)
Feet: Jaunt Boots (7.2k), Boots of the Cat (1k, 1.5k to combine)
Hands: Glove of Storing (10k), Deliquescent Gloves (8k, 12k to combine)
Head: Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5k), Circlet of Persuasion (4.5k, 6.75k to combine)
Headband: Headband of Alluring Charisma (4-36k)
Neck: Amulet of Natural Armor (2-50k), Hand of Glory (8k, 12k to combine)
Rings: Ring of Protection (2-50k), Ring of Energy Shroud (19.5k), Ring of Foe Focus (10k), Ring of Spell Storing (50k, or 18k for minor)
Shoulders: Cloak of Resistance (1-25k), Pauldrons of the Serpent (3k, 4.5k to combine), Cloak of Fiery Vanishing (2.6k, 3.9k to combine)
Wrist: Duelist's Vambraces (8k), Spellguard Bracers (5k, 7.5k to combine), Bracers of the Glib Entertainer (7.9k, 11.85k to combine)
Rods: Persistent Metamagic Rod (32.5k, or 9k for lesser), Lesser Quicken Metamagic Rod (35k)
Slotless: Handy Haversack (2k), 2X Scabbard of Keen Edges (16k each) ( Stone of Good Luck (20k)
Total: 591.55k (including combined items and maxed out items, such as Ring of Protection)
Some of these have much higher priority than others, and some are just relatively cheap things mostly for flavor. Theoretically, I could even stick +1 str ability on my belt for 1.5k to get rid of that ugly negative modifier.
Here are other rods that peak my interest: Immovable Rod (5k), Extend Metamagic Rod (11k, or 3k for lesser), Dazing Metamagic Rod (54k, or 14k for lesser), Piercing Metamagic Rod (11k, or 3k for lesser)
(Using Metamagic Rods (with the exception of Quickening) would increase cast time to a Full Round Action, so I’m not sure they’re worth it)
Here are some other slotless items that peak my interest, mostly for cheap: Page of Spell Knowledge (1-36k) , Volatile Vaporizer (2.2-3.8k), Snapleaf (750g), Bottle of Messages (300g), Iron Rope (750g), Stubborn Nail (100g), Wasp Nest of Swarming (1k)
I should be able to save around 250k crafting the Wondrous Items I want. Assuming my DM gives us recommended gold, I think I should be able to get all of this stuff by level 20.
With my 62k 10th level starting gold I’ll be able to buy the following:
That seems to cover the essentials and leaves me with 5,520 pocket change. I could grab some of those cheaper Wondrous items or save up for something bigger.
I’m not exactly sure how I’m going to make the Metamagic Rods work. I could hold it in my offhand and drop it after use, before drawing my second rapier, or retrieving it from a glove of storing as a free action.
I could try to sacrifice a feat for Quickdraw and start combat with the Metamagic Rod, and then drop it or store it in a glove of storing before drawing my offhand for the rest of the fight.
I’ve also flirted with the idea of enchanting the metamagic rod as a light mace and using it as my offhand weapon, but the rapier would be much better with increased crit range, and benefiting from my weapon focus and penetrating strike feats.
Any other Rods I might get would have to sit in my Handy Haversack and drawn as a move action, before taking up a full Round Action the next round to use.
For the big fights I could try to start with something like this:
Move Action: Inspire Courage Bardic Performance
Swift Action: Quickened Haste (Lesser Metamagic Rod)
Standard Action: Virtuoso Performance or Shadowbard (Bladethirst or Inspire Heroics)
Then engage the enemy in melee in the 2nd or 3rd round, after I’ve got some good Bardic Performances and other buffs/debuffs going.
That pretty much sums it.
I’d like a general review on my feat/spell selections and such.
Comments? Questions? Suggestions?
there is an item in the APG that causes damage to people that grapple them. I think it is the fish hook vest or something, it is just like 1 damage.
That's interesting.
As I said, there are better ways for low CMD characters to deal with grapplers (a shirt of Immolation, for example). I'm just entertaining the idea that Armor spikes should have some effect like that too.
Sure, I could use my armor spikes to make attacks against my enemy, except I'd take a -2 for being grappled, and another -4 for not being proficient with martial weapons. At that rate, there's little point in having spikes at all.
I noticed that they don't cause automatic defensive damage. I just think that they probably should, at least in certain situations, such as when the armor is glamered, or something is trying to swallow you whole!
Come to think of it, I wonder about magic items that can be improved, such as the Amulet of Natural Armor.
Could I give a Hand of Glory the ability of a +1 Amulet of Natural Armor for 3k (normally costs 2k) and then upgrade the AoNA to +5 later for the usual price?
Shouldn't armor spikes provide some sort of defense against grapplers?
As a small character (gnome) I have little interest in grappling my opponents, and I'm even less interested in them grappling me! I'm sure there are plenty of wild beasts out there who'd happily gobble me up if given the chance, and I don't like that. Looking at what the CRB says about Armor spikes, they seem to only function for the character dominating the grapple. I suppose it makes sense that anything trying to grapple me would avoid any spikes on my armor, grabbing me elsewhere, but what if my armor is Glamered? You can't tell me that an orc trying to pin a gnome in traveler's clothes is going to be able to avoid the armor spikes hidden under the illusion, right?
Sure, there are other (even better) ways for low CMD characters to hinder grapplers, but I think armor spikes should be an valid option. After all, porcupines do it.
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.
Since it seems it's always the price of the new ability that gets increased by 50% it would be most efficient to buy the most expensive item for that slot first. Right?
For example: Suppose I want to combine a Quick Runner's Shirt(1k), Shirt of Immolation (8k), and Tunic of Careful Casting(5k). The cheapest way to do this would be to buy the Shirt of Immolation for 8k, then add the Tunic and Quick Runner's Shirt for 7.5k and 1.5k respectively.
That's a great question. I too would like to know.
Exquisite Accompaniment is a nice 3rd level spell that effectively makes it so that you don't expend daily performances to maintain a performance; only to start a new one. I believe you could use it with Virtuoso Performance to maintain two bardic performances for free, until one of the spells wears off. Of course, it'd take 2 rounds to get both spells and performances going, but then you're good to go.
Harmonic Spell is pretty nice, but you might as well just get Extra Performances, unless you cast a lot of spells to make Harmonic Spell more useful.
Virtuoso Performance is an awesome spell, but I'd probably only use it until I can cast 5th level spells at lvl 13 and pick up Shadowbard, and then swap out Virtuoso Performance for a different 4th level spell at lvl 14.
If you're a multiclass Bard, that might not be so easy.
As a level 10 Arcane Duelist with Arcane Bond I can enchant my bonded weapon to have up to +3 enhancement, and any abilities I can afford, adding +5 for every requirement I don't meet.
PRD wrote:
A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.
Does lowering the caster level like this lower the DC to craft it?
How can I have someone else supply the required spell?
Do they have to spend the spell every day that is spent crafting the item, just as I would?
Do they have to spend all that time with me while I'm working on the item?
Can they still assist me if it's my Arcane Bonded weapon?
If I'm in the process of enchanting a weapon, can I still use it as usual when I'm not working on it?
Of course, I wouldn't benefit from the enchantment until I've completed it.
Looking at crafting magic weapons specifically, here's what PRD says.
Creating Magic Weapons:
To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the weapon or the pieces of the weapon to be assembled. Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon, and the masterwork cost is added to the total cost to determine final market value. Additional magic supplies costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic weapon—half the base price of the item based upon the item's total effective bonus.
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any melee or ranged special weapon abilities.
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the weapon, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the weapon triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the weapon's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)
At the time of creation, the creator must decide if the weapon glows or not as a side-effect of the magic imbued within it. This decision does not affect the price or the creation time, but once the item is finished, the decision is binding.
Creating magic double-headed weapons is treated as creating two weapons when determining cost, time, XP, and special abilities.
Creating some weapons may entail other prerequisites beyond or other than spellcasting. See the individual descriptions for details.
Crafting a magic weapon requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp value of the base price.
Item Creation Feat Required: Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft, Craft (bows) (for magic bows and arrows), or Craft (weapons) (for all other weapons).
My first question regards this bit:
PRD wrote:
The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
1. Does this mean that a 9th level caster can add enhancements or abilities to any weapon with an enhancement and/or ability bonus up to +3, or that they can only add up to that many enhancements to a weapon at a time?
For example: Suppose I'm a 9th level caster with a +3 Keen Flaming Burst rapier. Can I further enchant that rapier, or does it already have as many enchantments as I could give it?
2. Can I somehow borrow spells from an ally, if I don't know them?
For example: If I'm a bard who wants to put a flaming enchantment on his weapon, is there some way I can borrow a necessary spell from an ally wizard, sorcerer, druid, or cleric, or can I simply not apply that enchantment because there's no way for me to learn it myself? I recall reading about people using spells from scrolls for enchanting with spells they can't know or prepare, but I don't know if that's actually possible, or how it works, since u need to spend that spell every day spent crafting the item.
3. Why does a player need "a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools?" I guess the heat source kind of makes sense, but if I already have the masterwork weapon I'm enchanting, why do I need weapon crafting tools? Do I have to take the weapon apart to enchant it or something? How do I know which tools I need? It's not that big of a deal, but it seems a bit odd to me.
4. I recall people saying that it's possible to have a +1 weapon with +9 worth of abilities, but wouldn't that require the enchanter to have a level 27 caster level? Shouldn't the maximum abilities on one weapon be +6 (Caster level 18 requirement) excluding epic levels?
5. Is there any way to remove enchantments or abilities already on an item?
What are the rules regarding characters who can craft magic weapons through an Arcane Bond?
Arcane Bond wrote:
A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a wizard with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger. The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the wizard who owns it. If a bonded object's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.
6. Can a character with Arcane Bond only add abilities, or can they add enchantment bonuses too?
7. How does the cost of these abilities effect price to enchant, and the value of the bonded weapon, should it be sold, considering it only applies to the person it's bound to?
8. If the bonded weapon is lost or stolen, can the new owner add new abilities to it, and if so, how does that effect the price and number of bonuses on the weapon, should the original owner retrieve it?
9. For the same reason, can these extra abilities exceed the usual maximum +10?
For example: Suppose I'm a level 15 wizard with an arcane bond to a +5 dagger. Through my Arcane bond, I add abilities to the dagger to make it a +5 Vorpal dagger. This would cost 75k gold, and take 75 days to finish, correct?
Now suppose I give the dagger to my Cleric friend (who also can craft magic weapons) and ask him to give it the holy ability. To him it's merely a +5 dagger, so can he give it the holy ability or not, and if so, does it cost him as much as a +6 ability (11k) or a +11 ability (21k)?
If he manages to give it the Holy ability, do I now effectively have a +5 Vorpal Keen dagger (total +11)? I never died or replaced the weapon, so the Vorpal ability shouldn't have gone away, right?
It's hard to give good advice without knowing the specific situation, because these sorts of problems can be very different. The most general answer is be more creative with your game balancing, and make sure everyone is having fun.
Killing them outright or taking their stuff is not a good solution. Players invest a lot in their characters, especially the OP ones. Taking away their goodies isn't going to make the game more enjoyable. If you really think that the character can't be balanced any other way, talk to the player about it first. It's as much their game as it is yours.
Before you even start the game, ask your players about the characters they'd like to play. If you disapprove of something, talk to them about it and try to make a compromise. Give them the okay on the races, classes, feats, and gear they want to pick up, and let them know before hand if you disapprove of something or don't think it's good for the game.
According to the magic item creation rules, a continuous magic item costs Spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp.
This item basically grants the weapon +1 as if under the effect of a magic weapon or magic fang spell. These are 1st level spells which can be cast at 1st level.
The item creation rules also state that if the spell normally lasts 1min/lvl, which magic weapon and magic fang do, then the cost is multiplied by 2.
Therefore, the cost should be 1 × 1 × 2,000 × 2 = 4,000gp
You could even make greater versions of the tassel based on greater magic weapon/greater magic fang.
These would cost a lot more, but you could get more powerful versions of them also.
Greater magic weapon/fang are 3rd level spells available at 5th level, and have a duration of 1hr/lvl. They also grant more than +1 at higher caster levels.
Therefore the costs should be as follows.
3 × 5 × 2,000 × 1 = 30,000gp for +1
3 × 8 × 2,000 × 1 = 48,000gp for +2
3 × 12 × 2,000 × 1 = 72,000gp for +3
3 × 16 × 2,000 × 1 = 96,000gp for +4
3 × 20 × 2,000 × 1 = 120,000gp for +5
The enhancement bonus from the tassel would only stack with weapon enhancements already on the weapon up to a max of +5, and also wouldn't help for bypassing DR, according to how greater magic weapon/fang work. You didn't mention it, but you could even stick the tassel on a quiver to grant the enhancement bonus to ammunition or thrown weapons in the quiver. Just remember that the enhancement on ammo doesn't stack with enhancement on a bow/crossbow; only the higher bonus applies.
This ultimately costs a lot more than just enchanting the weapon, but I suppose that's the price you pay to be able to apply it to any weapon. However, if you had a +1 weapon with a lot of other abilities you could stick a +4 tassel on it and ultimately save money on a +10 equivalent weapon, or even have it like a +14 weapon (+1 weapon enhancement, +9 in abilities, +4 enhancement from tassels).
That might seem a bit overpowered, but it really only mimics what an existing spell, and even various class abilities, can already do; and for a hefty cost.
By the book, XP is rewarded based on CR. If you think the extra gear you gave the creature is enough to increase it's CR, then you should increase the XP accordingly. Otherwise, there's really no reason to grant more XP, based on equipment. As you said, the loot is it's own reward.
As I recall, an NPC geared with PC wealth would have a +1 CR, and would therefore grant more XP. Based on that, you can try to determine the CR of enemies based on how much extra gear you give them, and grant XP accordingly.
If your DM is constantly attacking your PC's hair, then there is little you can do.
I have no idea why your DM would troll you like that, but maybe you should just ask.
For those asking, it's not like the DM is out to get my hair. He liked that I'd come up with such a unique idea for my character, and let go with it. He even let me pick up a homebrew feat, "braid whip" at first level, which I just took as my bonus feat for being human.
The problem is, if I try to use my hair to trip someone, and fail, I can't drop my weapon like a whip or flail. It's not unreasonable for an enemy to try to cut away at my hair if I snag him with it, and that's where my risk comes in. Any time I fail a trip with my hair, I risk losing it.
On second thought, it occurs to me that my DM may have gotten his rules mixed up. We were playing it that on a failed attempt, I still became attached to the enemy, even if I didn't fail by 10 or more, which would have tripped me instead. I don't see anything in the rules about becoming attached to an enemy on a failed trip, even if using a whip. It made sense at the time, but the rules seem to be written in my favor on this. I'll bring this to my DM's attention, and I expect he'll fix his ruling in the future.
Nonetheless, thanks for the ideas. I might still still try to work out a way to toughen my hair in case something should ever happen to it.
