I am getting ready to start a new campaign. My players are pretty universally uninitiated in the rules (one of the reasons I chose ot run a game; I don't like running games). One of my players is a Diva, as in the "LOOK AT ME IN EVERY SINGLE SCENE AND EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE WAY!!!" to whit, he has proposed three characters that are essentially the same, "inquisitive, playful prankster with different skill sets based on model number." They are Elf, Drow and Kitsune. All are C/N (and that my friends is a whole other conversation!). In regards to one I have already told him, "Drow is not a good choice." He replied with "depends on what part of Golarion you are in. Katapesh it would be fine, blah blah blah." I told him point blank that I don't want his character to be the center of attention in every encounter (social) by default.
As a GM he really shines as the *storyteller*, huge involvement in dialogue, actions, and all that. As a *referee* he is mediocre. This is why, again, I volunteered to run a game-to give him more practice with the system :) (for the record: I beleive that the system is a firm framework in which to play a game that is part stroytelling, part tactical and part character development. Firm, not rigid.) I really look forward to being a player with him when he has some better grasp of the rules. :)
Now, I need kid gloves. I don't like to say NO in game, but I see it coming. A whole lot of "wait your turn Jim, Joe is talking to the mayor." I want to clear the air on what I expect before the game. I suspect that Diplomacy is going to become the Skill du Jour. I am familiar with how Diplo works, (it takes time, it is limited and is *not* mind control) but this is going to be a fight and I know it. (Worst thing about being a grognard? having been there and done that. :/ )
Why am I talking about this now? What are some of the tools you have used in play to deal with Snowflake McSpecial? How about a Diva?
Going with the Deflate a Snowflake thread here last week, I will probably do a lot of /ignore the Snowflake McSpecial aspects.
Shokk Colla!
Penny, I suspect he will. And of course (for Redjack, too) the game will be structured to provide limelight to everyone. My concern is when Diva decides, "I have to break into the mayor's house. It's cute, fun and what my character would do." And then before the next player can 'take their turn' "Now I want to go to the Temple of Erastil and troll the pries that thinks women shouldn't be adventurers." and then and then and then... My worry is not so much that he will take advantage of his stage time, but that he demand other's stage time as well.
This is a fun situation, or can be. If it's truly as bad as you say, try giving him choice, after choice, after choice. Each time, he gets to choose between getting something good... or getting attention. Once the aversion therapy has gone on far enough, he might even get the hint. Note that spending a lot of time on punishing him isn't going to work, because it's a perfect reward just the same. Also make sure the other characters get what they should anyway.
I was thinking for his 'extra curiculars' to simply have him roll one die, tell him the total results; "You rob the mayors house. You get 20Gold, but had to make off before the guards found you."
And, yes, discussing his antics at table is a *terrible* way to resolve it; it's attention that way, too.
A much easier solution would be to discourage or simply not allow splitting the party.
You can then much more easily orchestrate appropriate limelights and avoid him going off on his own tangents. Don't forget that most skillmonkey characters (which he seems to be) are incredibly vulnerable if they're caught while soloing. Personally, I see very few PCs that successfully pull off pull off solo scouting or even adventuring without getting into serious trouble (in one of my campaigns one of the PCs, playing an Assassin of course, went rogue in the first session, getting himself executed in the process when the rest of the PCs refused to help him after he tried to assassinate some guy who slighted him).
This could also extend to non-stealthy solo activities. If the party is for example hounded by an organization, bounty hunters or whatever, it would be quite dangerous for any PC to be on their own. If the PCs are together, it's harder for any single PC to grab the spotlight.
As a semi-side note it is very important that you do not allow players to use Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate against one-another. This player sounds like he might try to manipulate the party to get his own way.
Most importantly, as has been suggested before, take him aside to talk to him like an adult. Just ask him if he'd appreciate it as a player (and/or as a GM) that someone else would constantly try to grab the attention and try to outshine him.
[edit]: To be honest, your player sounds kinda petty. Not sure if I'd like to have him in my group. He sounds a bit like a self-involved teenager. Seriously, don't allow him to play CN!
[edit2]: maybe an idea to have a conversation with the group as a whole before you start playing so you can explain that it's your plan to give everyone equal time in the spotlight. You could also have player feedback moments at the end of sessions or adventures in which the players can give feedback to one-another and you. (there are many guides for giving feedback within a team on the internet, some are excellent and I might use them in my next group)
Penny, I suspect he will. And of course (for Redjack, too) the game will be structured to provide limelight to everyone. My concern is when Diva decides, "I have to break into the mayor's house. It's cute, fun and what my character would do." And then before the next player can 'take their turn' "Now I want to go to the Temple of Erastil and troll the pries that thinks women shouldn't be adventurers." and then and then and then... My worry is not so much that he will take advantage of his stage time, but that he demand other's stage time as well.
An easy way I found that cuts that down is to in rp situations after a certain mount of time, cut from person to person. That person says he's going to go break into the mayors house. Say okay and then cut to the next person and say the person took off what are doing? Geg back tothe person have him roll to break in. Then cut to next person and so on and so on.
Eventually the person is getting what they want to do but its taking them longer to do so which leads to them being more selective in where and what they decide to garner attention.Do let him get some lf it out hut keep a rein on it. Dont let him do so many tbings in his turn without stopping and going to next person. Ud be surprised in how someone off robbing a place where another players like I dunno I guess I wanna go down this ally to where something happens.
A lot of times when u give someone a little bit of time and then cut it to the next person, the group will take care of ur work for u. If it not fun for them, tbey will break off and go tbeir own way which can lead to yhe other person a while to figure out exactly where theyve gone to catch up and such.
Just keep rotating from person to person. Usually tbat way divas can have their spotlight and the party can keep playing.
My worry is not so much that he will take advantage of his stage time, but that he demand other's stage time as well.
Well, here's something that worked out for me yesterday...
Go around the table and structure the session as if it were turn-based. All those side-antics of this diva, they all take time. So, you can tell your players that you're going around the table to reconcile the timeline. I used phrases like "Okay, while Jeff's doing that, let's check in with Margaret..."
So, now you have an OOC and IC justification for going around the table. If the diva interjects, just mention the timeline.
-Matt
I was thinking for his 'extra curiculars' to simply have him roll one die, tell him the total results; "You rob the mayors house. You get 20Gold, but had to make off before the guards found you."
And, yes, discussing his antics at table is a *terrible* way to resolve it; it's attention that way, too.
This is a solid plan. I've learned to cut down on individual time as well doing this. Failure would also be something like losing so and so HP and having angry citizens who don't trust the party.
He wants to feel cool and do neat stuff that doesn't necessarily advance the plot or boil down to just killing things and taking their stuff. This can be a good thing, but you are correct that too much can take away time from other players and prevent the plot of the game from moving forward.
I suggest giving his character out of game time and encouraging him to create and share a journal of his exploits. Make sure to give him some brief time to summarize what he has done at the start of each session. If the other players can read it also (online, in an email, or just having copies) that is even better. Maybe other players will also get in on the actions.
Then, you can also use these journals to populate you world, provide ideas for adventures, etc. etc.
For this to work the player probably needs small tangible rewards, a bit of money, some fame etc. but nothing too unbalancing and a fair amount of praise/notice at the table etc.
Redjack's good advice above... Important to make sure the campaign has lots of areas where other people can shine, and areas where his particular skillset doesn't come into play as much.
Then again some parties love a drama queen er uh.. party face. so they don't have to.
Fun to subvert a willing party face to their face though. Have a guy who specifically takes an interest in another party member instead. Yes yess. You're clearly very chatty. But who is this wonderful creature over here?
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As a GM, you need to take control of the game and give his/her time to each player. It does mean showing some authority here and there. It also means you should give this diva player his time to shine too. So that he does not feel that you are specifically giving him an unfair treatment.
One way to do it is to check with him how he wants to have fun playing this character so that you can provide it to him. Then do the same for all the other players too. This shows that you are indeed in it for the "fun for all" philosophy and goal.
Honestly, I would be FAR more worried if he played a combat monster with zero social ability and relied on his OOC personality to steal the spotlight in social situations too. The kind of PC he wants to build seems tailor-made to be the face of the party. If no other player is particularly interested in this role, then all should be well ;-)
lol Raven, you are right, it could be much much worse. Like I said, I do like the player, I just have some worries and wanted to come to the All-Knowing-Internets for some tools :)
to everyone, Thank you for the helpful advice. What I have gleaned is: rotate play, give a little to everyone, and above all-keep *playing* :)
