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Yes, and you are excused. If the argument that nobody wants to play humans any more is that they are underpowered and uninteresting then you give them some other racial traits to select from that will synergize with more recent source material... pretty simple concept. Gaining appraise as a class skill via racial traits is not a reason to pick a race, gaining early entry into PrCs is.Excuse me? Are you telling us that humans need more "powerful" stuff than they already have?1. I think adding more powerful regional traits to humans would remove some of the shuffle towards the "overpowered and overpopulated" newer races.
Is this a statement from the people who play the "overpowered" new races, or from the people playing humans and why they think people play other races?
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Ye brethren, but what about us few Quaker teenagers that sneak to a game once a month when our mamma's and papa's are buying wax and wicks at the candle makers and lye soap. Nay I say does't we have the same opportunities thou hast of ever frequenting a convention. Where are our boons?
Quaker != Amish
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Amusingly, since the races have opened up, I'm looking at a Tiefling maybe. My other characters since hten are a) human witch b) half elf bard c) Dwarven inquisitor with a gnome wizard up soon and a GM credit baby that might be a tiefling bard or another lore warden. (Dexios was built with a boon prior to opening up)
Edit: so if the Aasimar/Tieflings are more powerful, I'm apparently doing it wrong.
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Is this a statement from the people who play the "overpowered" new races, or from the people playing humans and why they think people play other races?Yes, and you are excused. If the argument that nobody wants to play humans any more is that they are underpowered and uninteresting then you give them some other racial traits to select from that will synergize with more recent source material... pretty simple concept. Gaining appraise as a class skill via racial traits is not a reason to pick a race, gaining early entry into PrCs is.Excuse me? Are you telling us that humans need more "powerful" stuff than they already have?1. I think adding more powerful regional traits to humans would remove some of the shuffle towards the "overpowered and overpopulated" newer races.
The latter, I play almost exclusively humans with perfectly acceptable results, and to be honest don't really care who plays what as long as everyone is having fun.
I am realistic enough to know that individuals don't want to be told what they can not do... and once you give people something it is near impossible to take away, so the only real recourse to "fixing an issue" like having a few overpowered races (again, not something I actually have a problem with in this instance) has to be raising the bar so that the other options have the same perceived value. The apparent favored option according to this thread, taking them away, will only anger that segment of the customer base, and that isn't good for anyone.
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has to be raising the bar so that the other options have the same perceived value.Thats just kicking the arms race up a notch.
Exactly, I am not seeking a white box play experience, I play Pathfinder.
Paizo survives by constantly creating the next big thing. People can't really be shocked when that thing is successful and people want to utilize it. If past work isn't updated then eventually the perceived migration problem is only going to continue to expand and folks will spend their whole day complaining on message boards about all the kids these days and wondering why they can't just go out and mow the dang lawn already.
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has to be raising the bar so that the other options have the same perceived value.Thats just kicking the arms race up a notch.Exactly, I am not seeking a white box play experience, I play Pathfinder.
Paizo survives by constantly creating the next big thing. People can't really be shocked when that thing is successful and people want to utilize it. If past work isn't updated then eventually the perceived migration problem is only going to continue to expand and folks will spend their whole day complaining on message boards about all the kids these days and wondering why they can't just go out and mow the dang lawn already.
I feel that this slowly slid off topic until it was simply an old man rant. Possibly the most ontopic off topic comment I have ever seen.
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Myself, I would like to see a Cat Folk boon. I always like the cat person races, made some myself call the Gatius for 3.5. It would be Puuurrrfect.
Aside,
You know you can make a good catfolk-like with the raksasha tiefling? Same stat adjustments, and swap some traits to get claws or a bite.
Just sharing that thought.
A) the fact that this is possible for 98% of catfolk builds delegitimizes any argument about how making catfolk available would break things
B) Unfortunately, for the catfolk claw fighter that I've wanted to play since starting pfs, this is not an option because tieflings don't get access to the catfolk-only feats to improve their claws.
Again I ask that people remember that PFS needs to reach out to build more far-reaching communities. Part of that is allowing people in those communities who likely cannot get hte con experience that you are lucky enough to be able to attend to also participate fully in the experiences an rewards of PFS play.
+++ THIS
I really like the idea of being able to spend prestige points to unlock additional races. I play twice a week at local stores but will never be able to make a con because of my work schedule. Leave the boon system intact if you want, but give those of us who simply cannot attend conventions a chance.
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Two questions about catfolk but also many other races.
Tieflings and Assimar were mentioned as fairly common in the inner sea. Tengu and Kitsume are common on the other side of the world in Tian Xia but not in the inner sea. Therefore they were eventually included as PFS legal races in one form or another.
Catfolk have never shown up (to my knowledge) in a Golarian-ccentric item or product, be it a module or adventure path or pfs module.
Therefore, isn't annoying to ret-con the entire setting just to satisfy just few cat folk players. Doesn't it diminish the setting when the day comes and I sit down with five other 'ultra rare' changelings or GM a table entirely made up of furries?
I want to make my characters be unique individuals. But I can do that through backstory (Bone Oracle's Zombie is her dead brother that haunts her), roleplaying (I hug my eidolon) or playing 'different and rare' on my build, for example, the Elven Barbarian I'm considering.
How often is a "new unique race" a fill in or a cop out for good characterization?
Take Care,
Kerney
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Well, Kitsune have a fey and first-world affinity and could live anywhere, not just in Tian Xia.
After all, a certain Ameiko and her folk, originated in Tian Xia showed us how permeable the continents really are.
Tengu are also very common in the shackles and around there, so it´s no wonder many found their way into the inner sea region.
But i have to agree on the catfolk. I like them and think they are cool, but i´m not sure how they fit in storywise. I mean cats are totally awesome and it´s cool to play one, kind of. But they should not be free to play in PFS yet, untill further backup.
By the way, the dead sibling motive is a bit outdone i think^^
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Well, Kitsune have a fey and first-world affinity and could live anywhere, not just in Tian Xia.
After all, a certain Ameiko and her folk, originated in Tian Xia showed us how permeable the continents really are.
Tengu are also very common in the shackles and around there, so it´s no wonder many found their way into the inner sea region.But i have to agree on the catfolk. I like them and think they are cool, but i´m not sure how they fit in storywise. I mean cats are totally awesome and it´s cool to play one, kind of. But they should not be free to play in PFS yet, untill further backup.
By the way, the dead sibling motive is a bit outdone i think^^
Ye brethren, "I mean cats are totally awesome and it´s cool to play one," I keep getting stuck on that part, yet all I'm able to do is sit dreamy eyed at those that get to play them in a society setting. The grass is always greener on the other side, therefore I be Jones'n.
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Ye brethren, "I mean cats are totally awesome and it´s cool to play one," I keep getting stuck on that part, yet all I'm able to do is sit dreamy eyed at those that get to play them in a society setting. The grass is always greener on the other side, therefore I be Jones'n.Well, Kitsune have a fey and first-world affinity and could live anywhere, not just in Tian Xia.
After all, a certain Ameiko and her folk, originated in Tian Xia showed us how permeable the continents really are.
Tengu are also very common in the shackles and around there, so it´s no wonder many found their way into the inner sea region.But i have to agree on the catfolk. I like them and think they are cool, but i´m not sure how they fit in storywise. I mean cats are totally awesome and it´s cool to play one, kind of. But they should not be free to play in PFS yet, untill further backup.
By the way, the dead sibling motive is a bit outdone i think^^
Well, to be fair, there's only one person that can legally play catfolk in PFS, and that's the person that won it in the charity auction at Gencon. And I thought exclusivity was guaranteed for a year, if memory serves.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Myself, I would like to see a Cat Folk boon. I always like the cat person races, made some myself call the Gatius for 3.5. It would be Puuurrrfect.
Aside,
You know you can make a good catfolk-like with the raksasha tiefling? Same stat adjustments, and swap some traits to get claws or a bite.
Just sharing that thought.
A) the fact that this is possible for 98% of catfolk builds delegitimizes any argument about how making catfolk available would break things
B) Unfortunately, for the catfolk claw fighter that I've wanted to play since starting pfs, this is not an option because tieflings don't get access to the catfolk-only feats to improve their claws.
Point taken. I didn't know how you wanted to use the catfolk, just that if you were looking for 'cat-like PCs' the tiefling was an option.
I wasn't trying to pour water on your desire to play one, just trying to help with alternatives in the meantime. :-)
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By the way, the dead sibling motive is a bit outdone i think^^
It's not her motive for adventuring. It's how Zyphus says he loves you; bringing him back as a Zombie. They met at the premiere performance of "Among the Living".
Still, I see a lot of players who are like rocks with their human characters, not putting much thought into them and then roleplaying something 'exotic'.
That is the point.
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The "not yet appearing in the world" argument against catfolk is a solid one. There is, however, a precedent for ratfolk, and a perfectly good in-game rationale for ratfolk joining the Society. I would argue that the rationale there is better than any rationale for the tengu, since there is an established, in-game relationship between the PFS and at least one ratfolk community.
Even if the criteria is "has appeared in a scenario," I think it's worth exploring rotating in (and out) unusual races. (This would allow the coordinators to better manage the story-based reasons for suddenly adding a bunch of undines, by including an adventure at the end of the previous season featuring them. That would hold water, right?)
Swapping old ones out would serve to keep unusual races unusual. Right now, anyone can start playing an aasimar at any time, keeping the overall number in play the same or greater. They're not "unusual" any more, at least no more than halflings, elves, or gnomes (which are probably more rare in play, if anything). If that were to sunset, the number of aasimar in play would gradually decrease, making the race feel unusual again. Meanwhile, three other races (hypothetically) would ascend in prominence (say, ifrit, suli, and ratfolk). If those races only stick around for a year, people who are extra-worried about verisimilitude could just call it "confirmation bias.": "I started noticing ratfolk, and all of a sudden I saw them everywhere! There probably aren't any more than there were before, but I'm just noticing more of them. And, if there are more now, it's probably because they're coming out of (spoiler redacted) and joining the society to see the world."
It would increase the likelihood of a "menagerie table," which some people object to, but I don't see that as a bad thing. Humans, half-elves and the like can make their fortunes anywhere. Ifrits, tieflings, and ratfolk have fewer options, and would be attracted to an organization where they were more likely to be judged on their abilities than on their looks.
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Humans, half-elves and the like can make their fortunes anywhere. Ifrits, tieflings, and ratfolk have fewer options, and would be attracted to an organization where they were more likely to be judged on their abilities than on their looks.
Pathfinder society: Non discrimination in hiring since 4711 AR
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The "not yet appearing in the world" argument against catfolk is a solid one. There is, however, a precedent for ratfolk, and a perfectly good in-game rationale for ratfolk joining the Society.
Well then, obviously, you need catfolk to keep the ratfolk population in check.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Two race boons were released at Gen-Con for serious cash. I think, in deference to the people willing to lay down over $200 for the opportunity to play them, that we resist the urge to release them to general convention attendees for a year or two.
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I have sat at a table filled with unusual race / boon characters, and it has indeed felt like a circus.
I think the problem is the surfeit of boon opportunities, rather than the number of different races available.
If the campaign leadership kept the number of available boons the same, but increased their variety, we could accomodate people who want to play a rare, cool race, while still keeping the campaign human-centric. (Now, the problem is that if the campaign makes, say, minotaur PCs sufficiently rare, they'll be extra cool, but hard to get. A lot of the push behind "I think we should release #Critter as a rare playable race" loses steam if #Critter gets released but is so rare that the advocates don't all get to play one. (Goblins, Fetchlings, Catfolk...)
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Two race boons were released at Gen-Con for serious cash. I think, in deference to the people willing to lay down over $200 for the opportunity to play them, that we resist the urge to release them to general convention attendees for a year or two.
hum, I think it was 3 races? Catfolk, Vanara, changeling (or fetchling, cant remember)?
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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FWIW the three race boons went for $400 each at the charity auction.
- Wayfinder of Swords $62
- Wayfinder of Spells $72
- Wayfinder of Scrolls $70
- Changeling $400
- Catfolk $400
- Vanara $400
- Field Commission (start at 5th level) $250
- Gunpoweder Archetypes (lets you play a banned Gunslinger archetype) $325
- Former Aspis Agent (let you take levels in Aspis Agent prestige class) $210
- Assassin (lets you take levels in the Assassin prestige class) $625
- Foil Bestiary $200
- Foil CRB $250
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I hope some of the new races open up. I couldn't be more bored of the same old tolkien races. I also don't play maybe so much as many people but I do not see so many teifling and aasimar PCs that break the game and I see no Tengus.
Please allow us to play something other than the 40 year old way of seeing fantasy!
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I think the elemental races, dhampir, and the Tian Xia races should get opened up. As it stands the elementals have been in rotation as a boon for years now and it's about that time along with dhampir. As for the Tian Xia races those are ones that should have been legalized with season 3 or at the very least with the conclusion of the lantern lodges' arc. Considering how involved they were in that region it would make sense that they would have picked up a lot of recruits in that region.
As for the rest I'm cool with them staying boon only atm but I think they should become legal as time goes on, especially goblins considering how ubiquitous they have become with Paizo and the Pathfinder brand, as it stands every player I know who's even half interested in the lore paizo has laid down are itching to play one.
Also I think the big thing to remember is that even though there could end up being a lot of extraordinary races wrapped up in the pathfinder organization that's kind of the point, they are an organization of extraordinary people. I mean seriously they are made of some of the most odd and diverse people in the world and as such it would be common for them to have rare races floating around their organization especially in areas where they are common. In my mind, arguing about the races making the game feel to out there is like saying that you can't play an ex red mantis because "That's too out there from the norm".
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Open up Kobolds, but to make it interesting, to be able to actually play them, you have to first make it through The Night March of Kalkamedes with a full party of Kobolds and no rope.
The new mounted tradition boon grants access to special mounts based on race, for classes with a mount class feature.
Kobolds get access to a giant gecko.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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GMing at a local or online con will get you race boons.
Correct! And to pre-emptively counter the "my FLGS is too small for that" argument I often see, consider this.
One of my VLs, Steven Huffstutler, just finished up hosting the 3rd annual Winterfest Toys for Tots event last week, where they he created an event that went all week long and was able to qualify for convention support by having 15 tables. This allowed everyone from different schedules and locations all over Washington to participate if they wanted to!
There was even enough demand to run this years special, Siege of the Diamond City, which was great for those people that can't usually make it out to conventions.
All it took for our GMs and players to get boons this year was to just come down and play PFS. No travel time required and no cover charge. And anyone can do the same. Just get some friends together, get a space, and pick out some time in the future. If you get it to your VO with enough notice and have enough tables, you can get convention support and your GMs can earn those race boons.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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GMing at a local or online con will get you race boons.Correct! And to pre-emptively counter the "my FLGS is too small for that" argument I often see, consider this.
One of my VLs, Steven Huffstutler, just finished up hosting the 3rd annual Winterfest Toys for Tots event last week, where they he created an event that went all week long and was able to qualify for convention support by having 15 tables. This allowed everyone from different schedules and locations all over Washington to participate if they wanted to!
There was even enough demand to run this years special, Siege of the Diamond City, which was great for those people that can't usually make it out to conventions.
All it took for our GMs and players to get boons this year was to just come down and play PFS. No travel time required and no cover charge. And anyone can do the same. Just get some friends together, get a space, and pick out some time in the future. If you get it to your VO with enough notice and have enough tables, you can get convention support and your GMs can earn those race boons.
No one sent me an invite....
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And to pre-emptively counter the "my FLGS is too small for that" argument I often see, consider this.
Sorry, but we'd have to book all the tables at the comic shop for 7 and a half days to get to 15 tables.
"Why is there a crowbar in your geek bag?"
"Need to get in between the star wars figures and the pathfinder books"
Its cozy, but having a con there isn't going to happen until I can afford 40 acres and a yurt.
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And to pre-emptively counter the "my FLGS is too small for that" argument I often see, consider this.Sorry, but we'd have to book all the tables at the comic shop for 7 and a half days to get to 15 tables.
Isn't there a table downstairs that works just fine for anyone who isn't allergic to overwhelming mold? You could rent out some respirators and get 15 tables done in 5 days!
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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And to pre-emptively counter the "my FLGS is too small for that" argument I often see, consider this.Sorry, but we'd have to book all the tables at the comic shop for 7 and a half days to get to 15 tables.
It just took 5 days with our FLGS, but you don't even need to have your event at the same FLGS each day. You could do a "21 run" style gaming event where it's a new location each day. Have some of the games at home as a change of pace, too, and you could probably hit your 15 ;)
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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No one sent me an invite....GMing at a local or online con will get you race boons.Correct! And to pre-emptively counter the "my FLGS is too small for that" argument I often see, consider this.
One of my VLs, Steven Huffstutler, just finished up hosting the 3rd annual Winterfest Toys for Tots event last week, where they he created an event that went all week long and was able to qualify for convention support by having 15 tables. This allowed everyone from different schedules and locations all over Washington to participate if they wanted to!
There was even enough demand to run this years special, Siege of the Diamond City, which was great for those people that can't usually make it out to conventions.
All it took for our GMs and players to get boons this year was to just come down and play PFS. No travel time required and no cover charge. And anyone can do the same. Just get some friends together, get a space, and pick out some time in the future. If you get it to your VO with enough notice and have enough tables, you can get convention support and your GMs can earn those race boons.
Well, now I feel terrible. I'll be sure and give you notice for the next event. Besides, the golfing is probably better when there isn't a layer of snow over the course.
Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Pullman
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No one sent me an invite....GMing at a local or online con will get you race boons.Correct! And to pre-emptively counter the "my FLGS is too small for that" argument I often see, consider this.
One of my VLs, Steven Huffstutler, just finished up hosting the 3rd annual Winterfest Toys for Tots event last week, where they he created an event that went all week long and was able to qualify for convention support by having 15 tables. This allowed everyone from different schedules and locations all over Washington to participate if they wanted to!
There was even enough demand to run this years special, Siege of the Diamond City, which was great for those people that can't usually make it out to conventions.
All it took for our GMs and players to get boons this year was to just come down and play PFS. No travel time required and no cover charge. And anyone can do the same. Just get some friends together, get a space, and pick out some time in the future. If you get it to your VO with enough notice and have enough tables, you can get convention support and your GMs can earn those race boons.
I believe at Pax I said "You're always welcome to come and play."
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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No one sent me an invite....GMing at a local or online con will get you race boons.Correct! And to pre-emptively counter the "my FLGS is too small for that" argument I often see, consider this.
One of my VLs, Steven Huffstutler, just finished up hosting the 3rd annual Winterfest Toys for Tots event last week, where they he created an event that went all week long and was able to qualify for convention support by having 15 tables. This allowed everyone from different schedules and locations all over Washington to participate if they wanted to!
There was even enough demand to run this years special, Siege of the Diamond City, which was great for those people that can't usually make it out to conventions.
All it took for our GMs and players to get boons this year was to just come down and play PFS. No travel time required and no cover charge. And anyone can do the same. Just get some friends together, get a space, and pick out some time in the future. If you get it to your VO with enough notice and have enough tables, you can get convention support and your GMs can earn those race boons.
I believe at Pax I said "You're always welcome to come and play."
I think you are misremembering ;-)
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Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Pullman
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I think you are misremembering ;-)No one sent me an invite....GMing at a local or online con will get you race boons.Correct! And to pre-emptively counter the "my FLGS is too small for that" argument I often see, consider this.
One of my VLs, Steven Huffstutler, just finished up hosting the 3rd annual Winterfest Toys for Tots event last week, where they he created an event that went all week long and was able to qualify for convention support by having 15 tables. This allowed everyone from different schedules and locations all over Washington to participate if they wanted to!
There was even enough demand to run this years special, Siege of the Diamond City, which was great for those people that can't usually make it out to conventions.
All it took for our GMs and players to get boons this year was to just come down and play PFS. No travel time required and no cover charge. And anyone can do the same. Just get some friends together, get a space, and pick out some time in the future. If you get it to your VO with enough notice and have enough tables, you can get convention support and your GMs can earn those race boons.
I believe at Pax I said "You're always welcome to come and play."
I know it wasn't in regard to Winterfest, just a general invite cause it would be amazing to have you come to play at the shop!
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Well, since we're looking for opinions, I'll throw in my 2 cents.
I would love to see more race options opened up! :-)
I will freely admit that I just started in the world of RPGs earlier this year, and started Pathfinder Society in May. I am soooooo unfamiliar with everything involved with RPGs that I just want to dive in and try everything once. And well, conveniently, PFS meets several times a week, so that's several times a week I could try something new! But, unfortunately, there are some races I just don't get to try out. :-( I have to start up home games to play these races and then I miss out on playing with my PFS friends, and I longingly think about how these awesome characters would be if they played through some of the PFS scenarios. I imagine a catfolk showing up to the Blakros' Wedding would have caused an interesting stir amongst the attendees. A home-spun campaign just wouldn't appreciate it the same way people in PFS would.
That being said, I enjoy playing characters with a richly created background and I enjoy role-playing my characters to their fullest extent. Some people ask why should we have catfolk in Society play? I think 'why not'? They're curious and clever and a whole lot of fun to role-play. I love creating fun and interesting characters and I would love to have more options available.
I already have notoriety in our region for being the "tiger lady" (playing the druids with the tiger companions), it would be fun to known as the lady that also plays Catfolks. Just sayin'. I would also love to build the Kistune Oracle with the mange who is also a blight druid. Everyone stay back! Not only do I have the mange, but I'll make you sick too! Such colorful characters I could build. lolz
Please open up Catfolks? Please? I <3 Sulis too!
Thanks kids! :-)
For Jiggy's demographic: I'll celebrating my 4th anniversary of turning 29 in a couple of months. It's not polite to ask a lady her age. ;-)
please open up more Races in PFS and please bring back Vivisectionists, Master Summoners, Synthesists, Swift Action Weapon Cords, and Pre Errata Heirloom Weapon that gave you a masterwork weapon, free proficiency in that weapon, and a +1 trait bonus to attack rolls with that weapon.
i want to see open and unrestricted access to the advanced race guide and all the alternate racial traits it holds, such as darkvision for elves, drow blooded half elves, elemental kin, dhampirs, and yes, orcs, strix and merfolk too.
if you guys are worried about a circus, i will tell you, that fantasy has changed in the last 40 years, and because it might look like a group of freaks at a game table, doesn't mean every NPC has to be a circus.
the freaks, that are the eccentric minority known as adventurers, would have all drew attention, regardless of their race.
is a sylph street urchin vagabond or drow dervish any more eccentric than a summoner, druid, gunslinger or alchemist?
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please open up more Races in PFS and please bring back Vivisectionists, Master Summoners, Synthesists, Swift Action Weapon Cords, and Pre Errata Heirloom Weapon that gave you a masterwork weapon, free proficiency in that weapon, and a +1 trait bonus to attack rolls with that weapon.
I suspect that the vast majority of these will never be (re)opened, for valid game balance or campaign setting reasons. And PFS will always use the current version of a trait, so asking for an old version is futile.
As for the races: I'm a very liberal and lenient GM, and even I banned strix from my home campaign.
please open up more Races in PFS and please bring back Vivisectionists, Master Summoners, Synthesists, Swift Action Weapon Cords, and Pre Errata Heirloom Weapon that gave you a masterwork weapon, free proficiency in that weapon, and a +1 trait bonus to attack rolls with that weapon.I suspect that the vast majority of these will never be (re)opened, for valid game balance or campaign setting reasons. And PFS will always use the current version of a trait, so asking for an old version is futile.
As for the races: I'm a very liberal and lenient GM, and even I banned strix from my home campaign.
i played for a few months on another account, didn't like all the restrictions and left.
is a sylph street urchin vagabond or drow dervish any more eccentric than a summoner, druid, gunslinger or alchemist?Yes.
i don't see how
Gunslingers Carry a bunch of fancy weapons, exotic contraptions and other unique pieces of equipment, plus there is the fact they smell like gunpowder and a makeshift alchemy lab
Alchemists literally run around with such deformities as either a tumor or a second set of arms, they also happen to be a walking pharmacy that smells like an alchemy lab
summoners are literally accompanied by a freakish extraplanar pet with lotsa natural attacks, and have a visible marking somewhere on their body that gives them away.
druids are freaks in their own right, at the low levels wearing some form of leaves or hides, and eventually taking the form of animals whom wear leaves or hides, cast spells, and speak
i'd consider these a lot more freakish than a light hued and whispy sylph or a black skinned elf, not only cosmetically, but due to the stuff associated with said freaks
