Okay, so I am trying to figure out a relatively reliable way to play a mostly large character in PFS. At as low levels as possible. Not too worriesd about reach weapons (15-20' reach isn't necessary, it would be cool, but not really the primary goal). Trying to be large without changing forms, too - just a side note, this is why I am leaving out a lot of the polymorph spells/abilities.
Plant/Growth domain allows for 1 round of large as a swift action, 3+WIS/day. (Several races can add 1/2 to the #/day, as a racial favored class bonus for either druid or cleric. Can double up the uses by taking 1 level or more in both classes. Possibly also possible to grab other classes/PrCs which grant the domain as well, for yet more uses/day (but inquisitor is out, as combined with cleric - they stack; inquisitor/druid is possible instead of cleric/druid, though) This is available at 1st level, but is very restricted in usage (action economy, requires swift action every round; also limited #/day)
Living Monolith requires 6th level plus some unusual prerequisites (a language and some skills as well as AB). It is also a swift action to engage, but lasts 1 minute/'CL' (I assume Caster Level is equivalent to levels in the prestige class; it is possible to be equal to character level instead. That would enhance this greatly, but still wouldn't carry from one combat to the next in most circumstances. Still lends more credence to being 'large all the time' though.)
Spell Casting - many classes can cast the Enlarge Person spell, and use it in a wand or on scrolls. It is (barring a few exceptions - alchemist the only one that springs to mind) a full round casting time and lasts 1 minute/CL. Any items (potions/scrolls/wands) last 1 minute/use, as in PFS caster level is always minimum on items.
Potions - I mentioned wands and scrolls along with spell casting, but they require a casting class (or decent UMD). With a potion, anyone can chug it. And it is a standard action (move with Accelerated Drinker, swift with Fast Drinker (though this requires 3 levels of monk and 18 Con)) Lasts 1 minute, like the wands and scrolls. Would get very expensive to use this as the primary means of staying large at all times...
Other Items - including Staff of Size Alteration, Titanic Armor, and Staff of Mithral Might (and possibly a few others) add other ways to temporarily increase to Large.
One item, Juggernaut's Pauldrons, actually seems to allow for permanent enlarge person on yourself, even if not a 'person'. Of course, at 40,000 GP, these will come into play late in the game and I am hoping to start this as early as possible.
Am I missing any PFS legal means to reliably embiggen oneself?
...and to preemptively answer the inevitable* question of "What is it you really want to do, or why do you want to be large?" - the main goal is really to be large as often as possible. The side effect benefits (enhanced strength and reach, etc.) are nice, and I would not mind finding ways to capitalize on them, but the main/primary goal really is just to be large as much as possible.
*I understand why this question is inevitable. It really does help you to help me, if you know my goals. If I were just going for the reach, there are other easier means to accommodate. And etc. But really, I do just want to be large.
For potions you want a tail, tentacle, or other limb and and the accelerated drinker trait. (alchemist isn't a bad choice on this character for a few reasons)
Druid turning into a large critter can be large 24/7.
A Empyreal Sorcerer/Monk multiclass can do this fairly well. Have 1 (and only 1) level of Sorcerer, and know Shield and Mage Armor. That way, you can use wands of Enlarge Person in the 1st round of combat, cast Mage Armor (Pre-Combat buff best used with extend metamagic feat+magical linage/rod), and cast shield in combat if you need to be the "tank". The monk lets you effectively run around with 0 ASF, gives you some melee capability, and has some nice synergy. Just use a wand all the time.
As to the druid; I don't want to be a critter, I want to be a large humanoid.
The familiar could be another way to work it. Isn't using a wand still a full round action, though? As the spell is cast as a full round action, so wands and scrolls are too?
Also, a wand has 50 charges, and as it is limited to CL 1, it would last for 50 minutes total. I am not looking for only being large in combat, but as close to 24/7 as possible... so it would require 29 wands a day to use that as the sole tactic for staying large. In one day I could have instead purchased a staff or other item.
Still, for combat only, those are good suggestions, and thank you for them! One minute is long enough for most combats, and at 2-4 combats (or fewer) a day, a wand is a great solution.
One thing I am wondering is why there are no rage powers for barbarians which lets them 'hulk up' during a rage. It almost seems sacrilegious to omit those.
Alchemist does seem to be the better choice; with the standard action 'casting time' for the extracts. Could also grow a tentacle or an arm to hold a potion in, without binding up another hand/arm (though I would prefer to look less... monstrous... than that; 3 arms or a tentacle don't go with the concept of trying to stay humanoid...). There is also an extract that allows you to drink a potion without actually using up the potion... while it is a bit of a waste of a 2nd level extract to duplicate a 1st level spell; it does allow for more enlarging in the day.
One thing I am wondering is why there are no rage powers for barbarians which lets them 'hulk up' during a rage. It almost seems sacrilegious to omit those.
Barbarian rage powers are all (Ex), at least in the CRB. (Ex) abilities are non-magical. Physically growing larger tends to scream magic.
I'm sure that there are counter examples of rage powers that are either not (Ex), are which also seems like it should scream magic; I'm not a rules resource encyclopedia kinda guy. Maybe enlarge gets more scrutiny when suggested by authors because it is a pretty powerful melee buff that can be leveraged through other rules resources as well.
Summoner, for the first few levels you can play your eidolon as the character with you always casting enlarge on him. At level 8 he is constantly largest a later point you can be permanently large with greater aspect, but most PFS characters do not make it to that. You can build your eidolon into a assimar like character.
Well, summoner is another option; but the spellcasting is rather limited... just a few spells/day for a few minutes each... not really any better than just being a sorcerer or wizard and enlarging myself. At/after 8th level, that would be better - but by then I should be able to afford an item that allows for more or less 24/7 large size too.
As to the druid; I don't want to be a critter, I want to be a large humanoid.
Too bad this is for PFS, with its level cap and all, because I have been tossing the idea around of a druid that could be large all day and retain a humanoid...ish... shape.
I was mostly looking at elementals, particularly the earth elemental, since they can have a humanoid shape and have simple weapon proficiency when in such a shape. Combined with the fact that they have a language, and suddenly most of the problems I have with druids as a 'critter' class goes away (need for wild speech, focus on natural weapons). Unfortunately, large elementals are only an option for wildshape at level 10.
I also liked the idea of possibly buying large size equipment to wear while going around as an earth elemental all day (mostly going with earth both due to aesthetics and the fact that their element is not as...ephemeral as the others). I am unsure whether equipment like that would interfere with earthglide though.
Enlarge Person+ Wand and UMD or one casting level is probably the most consistent way to go, and since its a 1st level spell its not that expensive-- and it enlarges your equipment with you so you don't have to pay extra for larger gear.
With the Druid route, the Mask of Giants is an item that lets you wildshape into a giant as well; but based on its cost you would be 7th+ before you could afford it.
True but mask of giants gives limited actual bonuses from being giant sized, the primary reasons for mountain druid are to use the Regeneration mechanics with a form like Rock Troll (for Regen 5/Sonic or Acid) then resist energy your two weaknesses during combat (for 30 resist to Sonic and Acid) and basically be nigh impossible to kill in combat.
Generally though the mechanics to be a large sized PC are for levels 12-16 which fall outside of the normal range of PFS.
Okay, so I found the answer to one of my questions above... pearls of power do not work for alchemists; however they have an equivalent item, the Boro Bead.
I also ran across the preserving flask, formula alembic, and admixture vial in the search. Not that those are particularly relevant. I could have him hide during downtime, and preserve some extra extracts with a few preserving flasks; however I for some reason doubt PFS rules would allow for that. The Formula Alembic would simply allow for learning new formula, and only those on the standard formula list... so while beneficial to the character, irrelevant to this thread. And the admixture vial could be used to add an extra effect onto an enlarge; but again mostly irrelevant to this thread.
As far as I have found so far, extracts themselves cannot be extended, but a potion could be (in a couple of ways). So that is a small benefit - though it would be much better with an extract whose duration is actually based on my level, rather than a potion which always has a base 1 minute duration.
So the druid 1 / cleric 1 / alchemist 2, with a decent (+3) WIS and INT could get 12 rounds a day, with 12 swift actions. Plus 5 castings of the spell as a full round action, all with a 1 minute duration; and 3 as a standard action with a 2 minute duration. With the Extend Potion discovery, 3 potions a day could be extended to 2 minutes each (move action to drink with accelerated drinker).
Aside from the character as presented above, while vastly incomplete, would be very hard to complete in any optimal way, we are still only looking at 18.2 minutes/day in large for, at a cost of 150GP/day (for the 3 potions).
For combat purposes, that is significant and almost worth it if the build is properly engineered to take advantage of the large size and uses the remaining unspent resources well enough.
But since my goal is to be large as often as possible, including out of combat situations... it falls flat on its face. Even only taking into account the daylight hours of a given day, that is still less than 1/40th the duration desired.
With further financial investment, for pearls of power and/or boro beads, the overall duration can be further extended - but still not by a significant amount.
One of my repeat characters throughout the various systems I have played is an oversized human, of dubious and multiple lineages, but instead of 1/8 this and 1/16 that and 1/2 the other, he is just a human overall. He is taller than most humans, though the max height would work; however he is more than double the typical maximum weight, as a grossly obese man, with the blubber hiding thick layers of well developed muscle (and also a denser than standard bone structure).
...
Typically, I would have him stand around 7' or so, give or take a few inches, and be between 600 and 1,000 pounds (depending on his strength that incarnation; muscle does weigh roughly 8 times the same volume of fat, after all).
Maybe I'm missing something. I didn't see it--may have missed it--but Permanent Enlarged Person costs 2500 gp, right?
You can't have permanent spells in PFS:
Guide to Organized Play wrote:
All spells and effects end at the end of a scenario with the following exceptions:
A character may have one each of the following spells that carries overs from scenario to scenario: continual flame, masterwork transformation, secret chest, and secret page.
Is there a particular reason you want to be large OoC in PFS?
A reason? There needs to be a reason?
Well, as a player that had a similar desire (as well as having to deal with a rough housing 8 year old cousin that was literally put on steroids, so large enough to outweigh my grandmother), I can say that being larger than your opponents just rocks. Sure, there are the advantages like boosts to strength and expanded reach, but at the end of the day, being large just gives you a nice feeling of power. It is easy and fun to give into that power. Why do you think most giants in the game tend to be mostly known for how they smash smaller races? (other than the "enemy" centered nature of bestiaries)
Drawing upon classical mythology, the Greeks believed that humans during the "age of heroes" were simply just larger and more powerful than later generations. Being large gives you a semi-divine prescence. You are literally larger than life.
Although the need to do this in PFS, which is not as easy to work with when doing these kinds of character concepts, probably comes from sheer availability of games.
One of my repeat characters throughout the various systems I have played is an oversized human, of dubious and multiple lineages, but instead of 1/8 this and 1/16 that and 1/2 the other, he is just a human overall. He is taller than most humans, though the max height would work; however he is more than double the typical maximum weight, as a grossly obese man, with the blubber hiding thick layers of well developed muscle (and also a denser than standard bone structure).
...
Typically, I would have him stand around 7' or so, give or take a few inches, and be between 600 and 1,000 pounds (depending on his strength that incarnation; muscle does weigh roughly 8 times the same volume of fat, after all).
Maybe I'm missing something. I didn't see it--may have missed it--but Permanent Enlarged Person costs 2500 gp, right?
You can't have permanent spells in PFS:
Guide to Organized Play wrote:
All spells and effects end at the end of a scenario with the following exceptions:
A character may have one each of the following spells that carries overs from scenario to scenario: continual flame, masterwork transformation, secret chest, and secret page.
Yes. The character in question is technically medium sized (any biped from 4' to 8' tall is Medium, not Large; and as far as I can tell, weight does not affect size category at all) - outside of personal issues by various other players/DMs, I would just go with him as described and be okay with it.
But given that he really is that much heftier than a standard person; making him actually Large sized would not be unreasonable. Add a few inches of height, and everything is golden. In fact, a typical dwarf on the short end of the scale, which is enlarged (x2 height, x8 weight) would be just about the perfect size - though he isn't really a Large dwarf, I can toy with mechanics and whatnot to fit things together as needed)...
[edit] To respond to your point, "...PFS rules don't allow for custom sizing of characters outside of their standard limitations." - That is simply not the case. It was demonstrated in another thread that the suggested ranges are that; suggested. Players frequently violate the suggested means for determining height/weight with no auditing or negative implications. Neither PFRPG or PFS has hard limits on physical description (though size categories do have the aforementioned 4'-8' limit for medium character's height). But since it became obvious that more than one pair of panties would get twisted if I were to deviate to that extreme, and it may instigate the imposition of such a hard restriction within PFS, I would prefer to not be 'that guy'. So I will either find an alternate means of playing him, or not play him in PFS. :)
To respond to your point, "...PFS rules don't allow for custom sizing of characters outside of their standard limitations." - That is simply not the case.
I wasn't looking to argue semantics, just trying to help people avoid wasting their time giving suggestions that wouldn't help you achieve your goal.
That said,
Vital Statistics wrote:
The following section determines a character's starting age, height, and weight. The character's race and class influence these statistics. Consult your GM before making a character that does not conform to these statistics.
(emphasis mine)
And unfortunately, in this case, your GM is the Campaign Coordinators. Barring an answer from them, you're at the mercy of your table GM.
