So we've beaten the poor horse dead about gms who wont let folks play what they want and players that wont let gms run the settings or stories they want...
It follow then that several things players and gms have always wanted to try have never been allowed...
This thread is their home.. The place for all your wish-I-could-have-had/done/played concepts... Repeatedly dashed against the rocks of fiat in either direction.
What thing have you been denied... Unfairly or not!
Illithid paladin.
Gnoll paladin. Because no one ever allows gnolls in their games, since they aren't exactly statted up as a playable race (though they have a very very minor write-up in the ARG somewhere in the Race Builder section. This character is a 2-prong one as well. Not only is he a race that isn't allowed, but he's a class that doesn't mesh well with the majority of players I am always around, who ALWAYS play CN, and the majority is played as sociopathic douchebags, and I don't want to put up with the hassle that a LG paladin placed in a party of 3 CN sociopathic douchebags would entail.
It's why I hate paladins being relegated to LG only. It would be easier if they were any good, as it is easier to change the paladin than it is to change a player's playstyle comfort zone.
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A dragon.
Most of my homebrew races. So far I've been allowed to try only two of them out.
Sadly, one of said campaigns was a 4e one and I kinda screwed up with the character.
I have been working on a few gnoll cultures for my homebrew world.
Adjule could try that gnoll paladin if I were the DM at his table.
Anything science fiction or science fantasy...
I've always wanted to run/play a sci-fi game (shadow run, WH40k settings, stat-wars ect.) but my gaming group is pretty anti-anything not standard fantasy.
Though I get to push it a bit once we get to rasputin must die in RoW.
Campaign: Elemental focused mystery and research campaign.
Character: Undead houri minotaur.
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A system other than DnD/Pathfinder.
My heart goes out to you. (no sarcasm)
I love Pathfinder, but I definitely don't think it should be the "default role playing game" of all groups. It plays much better when people are actually seeking out the weirdness that PF has on offer.
I've been that guy who plays on tilt against the game system, and I've had them as players too. Try. Try very hard not to be that guy. Try to like PF for what it is. Find another group on the side and get the yearning out of your system. All your sessions will be better for it.
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Interesting, I guess I've never been "denied" any character I wanted to play because I've never actually started working on a character until I had the GM's guidelines on what was or wasn't acceptable.
Also interestingly, I have never found this to be remotely limiting in my building of unique, interesting and fun to play characters.
When the GM has expressed a willingness to expand their campaign, for example by accepting custom races, I've then worked with the GM to flesh out the race before I used the race to build a character.
Just wondering, for those of you who have been denied a chance to play a character, at what point did you create the character's concept? Did you do it in a vacuum, just working on a character concept outside of the context of any actual game world?
In other words, do you have this idea in your head of some character concept that you just want to play without really worrying about where you might play them?
I suppose I have an easy out. When I want to really just explore some interesting concept, I tend to do so within the context of my own gaming world and tend to work them into that world as NPCs. I've done that for a whole lot of unique NPCs and monsters.
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Never got to GM my "Treasure Island" adaptation set in Warhammer 40K's universe, featuring scums of the Underhive on planet Necromunda. And zombies.
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Pirates. Despite really wanting to try out the Skull and shackles AP my group might not be up for it. One guy refuses to play anything but good hero types. Another guy who is incapable of playing a character that is not good, as anything but an evil sociopath d-bag murderer. We can play any other type of system, coc, BRP, Traveler, SW, etc etc. and everything works out fine. When it comes to fantasy all bets are off and all characters are caricatures.
Never gotten to GM a serious game.
In other words, do you have this idea in your head of some character concept that you just want to play without really worrying about where you might play them?
Speaking just for myself, it's a mechanical issue. Playing a dragon (by which I mean one of the True Dragons, not just a critter with the Dragon type) character has been something I've wanted to do for some time. I actually worked with one of my old GMs on getting a nerfed-down-to-playable version of one ready for a campaign... only to have the campaign die before it even started.
It's a trick to get a Dragon to a point where it won't overshadow or outdo the other party members, while at the same time won't be useless or lag behind, and all the while not removing anything about it that makes it a Dragon.
I had an idea for a one-off adventure of plane-traveling pirates that was going to climax with the party killing a city-sized aboleth and plundering his treasure. Sadly time conflicts sunk the game before it began and it never got beyond a couple players coming up with tentative character ideas.
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My greatest broken dream, that may actually finally get granted, is to be the player again.
For most of the past ten years, I've been on the DM's side of the screen. I love it, my players enjoy my games, and I don't want to give it up. But, I'd like more experience on the other side, too.
A break from doing all the prep work I like having for games. A chance to remember the player's perspective & see if I can't improve my own GMing based on that perspective.
I could have written this myself, but change the ten years to more like twenty. I think I've been a player maybe four or five sessions in that time.
In fact, most of my gaming for the better part of 32 years has been as GM.
I was lucky enough after a similar length of time to find another gamer who enjoyed being the GM as much as I do, so my GM/Player ratio dropped from 100/0 to roughly 60/40, and now that feels almost like I'm playing too much. I feel a little guilty about it even. But it's fun.
In other words, do you have this idea in your head of some character concept that you just want to play without really worrying about where you might play them?Speaking just for myself, it's a mechanical issue. Playing a dragon (by which I mean one of the True Dragons, not just a critter with the Dragon type) character has been something I've wanted to do for some time. I actually worked with one of my old GMs on getting a nerfed-down-to-playable version of one ready for a campaign... only to have the campaign die before it even started.
It's a trick to get a Dragon to a point where it won't overshadow or outdo the other party members, while at the same time won't be useless or lag behind, and all the while not removing anything about it that makes it a Dragon.
Back in Second Edition, I was in a group where we had a Silver dragon. The book says the dragon likes the shape of humans. So we had a character in the group that changed to a dragon every so often. It was like "Ok now I'm Pi$$ed! Next thing you knew, Big Silver Dragon :D
Of coarse we were pretty high level in those days, so I am not sure what it would take for such a thing in PathFinder.
For a thing that I missed out on that I wished I didn't would have to be Ringworld. I have that game sitting still and I have long loved Larry Niven's books. I bought the game when it came out. (there was a supplement that I never got). I've run Champions once, but found I am more a player of all games than a GM.
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In other words, do you have this idea in your head of some character concept that you just want to play without really worrying about where you might play them?Speaking just for myself, it's a mechanical issue. Playing a dragon (by which I mean one of the True Dragons, not just a critter with the Dragon type) character has been something I've wanted to do for some time. I actually worked with one of my old GMs on getting a nerfed-down-to-playable version of one ready for a campaign... only to have the campaign die before it even started.
It's a trick to get a Dragon to a point where it won't overshadow or outdo the other party members, while at the same time won't be useless or lag behind, and all the while not removing anything about it that makes it a Dragon.
Hey Orthos, I have some playable dragon rules you can use at some point if you like. Just send me a PM if you're interested and I'll send you the link.
I had a Copper Dragon cohort once(my character was a 18th level Half-dragon Ranger), it was pretty nifty.
I've been pretty fortunate. I can't recall off the top of my head any concepts I haven't been allowed to play. But, like AD said above, I build my characters within the guidelines laid out by the DM for the setting, so it's never been an issue.
I've tossed around some joke builds that get shot down pretty quick(Illumian "arcane spellcaster"), but those are extreme cases where the character was never going to get statted up anyway, meant as a joke in the first place.
I always build my characters within the guidelines set by the DM as well. Would I enjoy playing a gnoll paladin? I am not sure. Closest thing allowed by most DMs is the aasimar and tiefling, if they go by the Blood of Angels/Fiends books saying that aasimar and tiefling don't need to be human. Then I could just make a tiefling who appears like a gnoll (or an aasimar that does) and play it that way.
That's one way I wanted to play a homebrew race of mine, but I felt like I was lying to myself.
If the character is a race X, then it cannot be an Aasimar or Tiefling painted to look like said race X.
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Oooo yes, a cute pastel-pink and lion-cut gnoll with a halo!
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One thing I'd like to run is a game of D&D/PF, without the assumption of active deities or easily accessed divine magic.
Not that it can't exist, but that it shouldn't be a player choice that they are 'beloved of the gods' (and if that's not a special snowflake concept, I don't know what is), more that it should be something that is unlocked in game, as a boon, while doing that deity's work. (And that it could be lost when not doing the deitiy's bidding).
Something along the lines of the fickle Greek pantheon, where the PCs could benefit from various effects normally covered by the divine spells, while under their patron's protection, without any of them being 'clerics', or being able to take such effects for granted.
Not that I've proposed such a thing and had it shot down, more that I know so many players consider the presence of a cleric in the party to be such a non-negotiable, that it's hardly worth bringing the subject up.
How would that even work? D&D just doesn't seem to support that kind of system as well as a game like GURPS could.
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So we've beaten the poor horse dead about gms who wont let folks play what they want and players that wont let gms run the settings or stories they want...
It follow then that several things players and gms have always wanted to try have never been allowed...
This thread is their home.. The place for all your wish-I-could-have-had/done/played concepts... Repeatedly dashed against the rocks of fiat in either direction.
What thing have you been denied... Unfairly or not!
Oh, dear, how long a list am I allowed? ;)
Right now I'm playing a cleric, but I secretly would really like to play a druid too. I still want to continue playing the cleric, especially because he's become integral to the adventure module. But I also want to run the druid in the same campaign. I wish I could run both, or alternate them. But I'm not sure how my DM or fellow players would feel about me having two PCs.
Someday I'd like to play a half-drow. I'm not sure any of my DMs would ever allow it.
I want to run a wizard who's actually effective. I love playing spellcasters, but I suck at playing them.
I'd really like to try a campaign in the Lord of the Rings setting, but not during the events of the books. I'd also like to play in several different types of superhero campaigns: Victorian, pulp, or one with Justice League/Avengers level PCs. And a steampunk fantasy campaign.
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One that comes to mind is kind of a d20-modern (with FX)/FR-crossover port that I wanted to GM for the longest time in the 3.X era. Magic and monsters existed, but they were generally kept on the "down-low" for "reasons" (I had them once, but have forgotten them over the years - I wonder where they're written and if I could find them again).
The players were going to be various monsters-cum-mortal races (especially humans) - think of a "mutants" type of thing - of various kinds who were being exploited by powerful groups (specifically and especially this group of extremely human-supremacy punks called the "Crimzon Mayjehs" or something*) who were going to bind some of these creatures, rip parts of their essences out, and create their own "god"-being. Of course, they would summon and bind some of the PCs first into doing their tasks - namely getting rid of "evil creatures" - but, of course, the PCs wouldn't know the end goal.
In the end, it generated lots of interest, but never went anywhere, sadly.
* Based on a combination of the Crimson Brotherhood from Greyhawk and the Red Wizards of Thay from FR. Only as punks and gangs.
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Another one was this war-situation where three people groups - elves (of a CG - leaning toward CN - Corellon), humans (of the lawful evil Zarus), and orcs (of the chaotic evil Gruumsh) - were about to go to war.
Mostly it was between elves and orcs with humans usually with the elves, but sometimes switching sides in order to preserve "balance". It's bloodwar-like in antiquity (though a shorter time-scale, naturally), and there were lots of little details (all of the leaders of all three races were templated/monster-variant versions of some sort or another) and I'd statted up half-breeds. There was something about the four remaining dragons or something, and fighting off Tiamat, and it was currently a peace time. I don't know, it's been forever. I remember each race also had some sort of monstrous symbol - the elves' had a Stone Giant and an Ogre Mage, I think, while the humans had a Gray Render, and the orcs a Mind Flayer and Dark Naga. I don't remember if those creatures were considered myth or were common. Anyway. I liked it. It just never happened. We moved away from that group, and it was forgotten.
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There was one I don't recall well at all, I wanted to GM that dealt with three major threats rising: a powerful dragon, necromancers, and some sort of evil overlord-like guy. The PCs were to be recruited and set to take care of the problems according to their research and ideas. (Behind the scenes: if they ended one threat, the other two would become more powerful, due to extra time.) The computer I had that on died. I only recently found most of my notes.
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There was one that revolved around a looming war between the gods of snakes and scaled things in general, and the gods of darkness. Never materialized any interest.
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Another one I wanted to run was where one of the PCs was a Song Dragon with All the Powers of Chaos (tm) [gestalt barbarian-bard, with wild mage prestige, and various chaotic magic items]. Or the one with the ghost-inhabited Flesh Golem.
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One idea I had involved all "wizardry" ("arcane spell-casting") coming only from ancient remnant arcane items, meaning that they had to hoard their remaining power. There was something else going on in the background, though, and of course those "mages" had to use their power to overcome the various tasks at hand...
(No interest whatsoever.)
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There was the other idea I had to run a game that only had arcane spell-casters of some sort in it. High mortality expected, but the PCs in total could never have more than five of a "given" class in their group (meaning that once number five died, the class was unavailable for good) or something, if I recall. I think I excluded the spell-thief, though I can't recall why.
(Generated some interest, but that fizzled for a normal campaign.)
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There was one I wanted to GM involving catfolk (the 3.5 version) and their clan, a nearby gnoll clan, and a looming threat from orcs.
(It never got off the ground, and life got in the way and we forgot.)
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The biggest loss, to me, though was one where I had totally re-balanced the game around NPC-classed characters. Magic was wild, dangerous, and problematic (and tended to send people into insanity if they didn't do it right), and mages were few and far between. Magic functioned differently, commoners were beefed up a tad, and generally the only classes that existed were slight variants of the NPC classes... and prestige classes (which the GM controlled - I changed many of the prerequisites for those I allowed to permit this). Meaning, of course, that PCs would probably want to take them. There was epic conspiracies,
and a breakdown of local reality. A kidnapped and tortured
Heavily themed on post-WW1 type stuff (the "last war" kind of thing), but with less modern tech, and before Eberron existed.
Elves and trolls and drow were kind of all mixed in there as the same creature(s), sort of. Something about ogres too, maybe, but the more magical kind. Dwarves may or may not be included along with duergar into that "race". All very magical, very fey, very Other. And "monsters".
Lycanthrope was its own kind of thing.
Orcs were something or another specific that I can't recall (perhaps related to lycanthropy or something, I don't know).
Anyway, I'd created a world-map (long lost and/or destroyed, probably) a highly detailed suite of political and social interactions; relocated most all extraplanar creatures that would be appearing (gith, for example) successfully into the world at large; heavy themes of half-breeds and "purity"; racial equality (goblins, orcs, trolls, etc); fully fleshed out ancient "fairy tales" from various races; gnomes replacing/subsuming/being subsumed by the Chinese cultures; world-travel; most permanent magic items being more rare, cursed in some way, but also more powerful (think "Lord of the Rings" sort of stuff but with D&D flavor and traits); and ultimately the PCs
Oh, and Aberrations are The Worst Thing Ever (tm). Also Warlocks exist, but they're really freackin' insane, stupid, and murder-happy. Also they might turn into an Aberrant, Undead, and/or Fiend spontaneously by using their powers, becoming super-evil, and threatening the stability of the world at large. Also they create Wild Magic zones.
All sorts of stuff like that. I'm really, really sad that I never got to run that thing. Could have been amazing, if I did it right.
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To play, there are three ideas that I never got to play, and one idea that I did, but had to self-nerf and then retire for the sake of the campaign. I never ever pushed or even asked for these ideas to be allowed, even to try, though. They're rather strictly solo-campaign type things anyway, and not the sort of stuff GMs would generally take too very kindly.
1) A boy who (in a fairly exclusively NPC-classed world, except, again, for prestige classes) gains therianthropy. He can level up by putting his XP into one of two tracks: his lycanthropy (becoming a lycanthrope of different kinds, but only gaining the benefit in those forms) or his class levels (constantly available, but weaker without prestige). I would so have run something similar for someone else just to try this. It looked so cool.
2) A guy who was part of an "adventuring" troup of second-level NPC classes, who, through a terrible mistake (and taking on something far above their pay-grade), becomes a powerful undead. Shunned by his former companions (who still respect the man he was) the lich-like vampire-guy becomes a first level wizard (instead of a second level adept).
3) A Dark Knight kind of character (like Final Fantasy style Dark Knight, not Batman - this was long before those movies) who was a living shade and a devil. A master of mounted combat, he was a once-mortal man who sold his soul at the behest of his king to the land's dark masters to become a Dark Knight. Sent on a supposed peace mission as he speaks out against the increasingly warlike ways (though respectfully and always willing to serve first), he is betrayed and thought killed. (Very based off of the opening of Final Fantasy II/IV, if you know it.) The world is very different from the FF world, though it's inspired by a combination of that world, Forgotten Realms, and heavily home-brewed stuff), and the story (presumably) goes in tremendously different directions from that otherwise similar origin (starting with him being bound with a Gal-Ralan that inhibits almost all of his darkness powers).
You can see why no GM has ever stepped up to go, "let me GM that!" I suspect. :)
4) The only one I got to play is a 3.5 psion who used some dubious (at best) tricks (that could technically be read to function this way, RAW, though certainly not RAI; basically using Wish spells to alter a few magical and psionic effects slightly) to end up with all 38 mental ability scores, a whole suite of spell-like and supernatural abilities, a metric ton of feats (especially crafting feats), and most of the benefits of a number of templates without actually having the templates (and thus bypassing the Level Adjustment). They were going to go psion/wizard/cerebromancer but have full manifesting and spellcasting through tricks. I never asked to play it, and never really expected to, though I had fun with it and talked about it. Eventually, a GM asked me to play it, despite how over-powered it was, despite me making sure a few times that it was okay first. So that's how I got to play Kingmaker. You see the problems immediately, I'm sure. It was our first PF game. Around the end of book two, the beginning of book three, I retired him to make a "twin golem" that "shares experiences" with him (meaning they both level up at the same time, but he stays at home and runs the kingdom, while the golem-twin - far less powerful - goes around and adventures), effectively retiring the character.
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While I'm thinking about it, there are two campaigns I wish could be resurrected.
#1 was a D&D game that we started not long after 3E was released. We only had the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual to work with. We had a really cool group of players who all came up with interesting personalities for our characters. I was running a sorcerer, which was something rare and unusual in that world. My PC was the foster brother of my husband's PC, who started out as a fighter and later took some levels in monk. We had a lot of fun with their relationship because his PC was the muscle guy and mine was the wimpy spellcaster, and we both belonged to sort of a ghetto crime family. One of the other players was running a rogue who had a secret identity, and a third player was playing a wizard who did a lot of potion brewing and item crafting and had a booth in a bazaar. He even made a miniature of his shop!
The DM designed his own world setting. Our adventures all took place in a vast ancient city, which kept abandoning parts and expanding off in new directions, so the party could walk for a week and still not leave their city. The whole city was a great setting, full of mysterious ruins to explore and distant neighborhoods our characters had never seen. It was exciting.
After we'd been playing for a while I got seriously ill and couldn't play for several months, and the DM didn't want to run without me, so he put the game on hiatus. After I recovered, we played a couple of times, but the DM had lost interest in the story he was telling (he has a habit of doing that) and the game just died. My character had just died and been raised by an unknown benefactor when that happened. I never got to find out what the DM intended for him - I think maybe he was going for an explanation of where my PC's sorcerous power came from. If we'd continued, I would have liked to run it in 3.5 and rework my PC as a warlock. The DM is a published writer now, and I keep hoping maybe someday he'll write some stories set in that city.
Campaign #2 was a Champions! game, set in the San Angelo city setting that had just been released at the time. I've played quite a few superheroes, but my character in that game was the best-designed and most fun to play of them all. The DM was also really great at setting interesting challenges and using any character background in the game. My PC's powers had a mysterious origin and he was hinting that some secret organization might be behind it, when the campaign came to an abrupt end due to some personal issues the DM was experiencing at the time.
I think he always associated that campaign with a troubled time in his life, so he never wanted to resurrect it. But I loved that character and was really looking forward to finding out what the DM was going to do with her story. I know all the other players still miss that game, too.
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My insurance agent will be contacting you regarding my claim for damages to my face as it hit that wall of text!
sure I stayed glued to it for a long time, but still, you know. still
*Ahem*
(Glad you liked it! Sorry about the out-of-place, but convenient joke! Super-sorry about the tvtropes link in the "Ahem"!) :D
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How would that even work? D&D just doesn't seem to support that kind of system as well as a game like GURPS could.
True, but try getting people to trust a system other than their beloved D&D. This is a problem I've seen since I first began gaming.
People having systems they'd like to play sitting on the shelf, because they could never get a significant majority to buy into giving it a fair hearing, or if they did, it was grudging, for a few weeks, to fill in time before someone could run D&D again."D&D! Everyone's second-favourite system!"
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As to how a campaign would work without clerics, this was in the days of AD&D, so many of the 3E APL, CR and WBL assumptions weren't around.
There was nothing even close to a CR guideline, as the game back then relied on the GM to be able to eyeball the creature's abilities and weigh them against his players' PCs.
And one look at the pregen PCs in the back of any TSR module proved that they were expected to take on level 9+ adventures with just a +1 weapon and armor, maybe one potion apiece if they were lucky.
I was prepared to alter the creatures encountered, and to shift some of the divine spells to being arcane, or common-sense, intuitive alchemical items ("drink the blood of the minotaur to gain his strength for the coming trial"), so the PCs could still benefit from the effects, but not milk them as daily expectations.
As to why anyone would go to the trouble, well, there's been threads in the 'What bugs you about Golarion' threads, regarding how they like some of the ideas introduced in the setting (Rahadoum and Razmiran), but how these adventure ideas and campaign concepts can't really be explored properly, if the setting includes visibly active deities. Or clerics who from first level, can make them do what he tells them.
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And one look at the pregen PCs in the back of any TSR module proved that they were expected to take on level 9+ adventures with just a +1 weapon and armor, maybe one potion apiece if they were lucky.
Uphill, in the snow, both ways?
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
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And you had to pay the dungeon owner, to let you get killed in there!
But yes, it does sound a bit 'Four Yorkshiremen' sketch, but the point I was making was not how badass we were, or better players, but that the early game assumed all GMs were having to tailor the monsters to their PCs. So it seems second nature to me, to ignore CR, or at least take it with a huge pinch of salt, and focus on what the creature actually does.
There seems to be too much reliance on CR, these days, as though it existed in a vaccuum, and isn't dependent on the PCs or genre expectations in use.
Low-wealth game - don't use creatures that require magic items to beat, or amend their CR accordingly.
Reduce access to certain classes or abilities - see above.
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I seem to be full of "gee I wish I could do that".
I've long wanted to play in a campaign in an Oriental setting - D&D Oriental Adventures, Tian Xia, or something else, I don't care. I'm a huge fan of Chinese, Japanese and Korean fantasy films and I'm a little weary of the traditional psuedo-European trappings of many fantasy RPGs.
I also harbor a vague secret desire to play Talislanta, just because it's not at all the traditional type of fantasy. It would be a pain in the neck for miniatures (I think there were some Talislanta-specific minis at one time, but they're long out of print), but it would be fun to not always being playing elves/dwarves/halflings/humans fighting ogres/trolls/gnolls/etc etc.
I seem to be full of "gee I wish I could do that".
I've long wanted to play in a campaign in an Oriental setting - D&D Oriental Adventures, Tian Xia, or something else, I don't care. I'm a huge fan of Chinese, Japanese and Korean fantasy films and I'm a little weary of the traditional psuedo-European trappings of many fantasy RPGs.
I also harbor a vague secret desire to play Talislanta, just because it's not at all the traditional type of fantasy. It would be a pain in the neck for miniatures (I think there were some Talislanta-specific minis at one time, but they're long out of print), but it would be fun to not always being playing elves/dwarves/halflings/humans fighting ogres/trolls/gnolls/etc etc.
These were two of the challenges I faced when cooking up my group's homebrew world; we tackled the first by making sure we had an Asian-themed region (later dubbed the Senkaku Islands, yes after the real-world disputed territory), and the latter by creating and/or using a ton of unusual or homebrewed races.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder.
Pathfinder's a broken dream?
in lack of play, or failure to become what you've hoped?
Almost complete lack of play.
Almost complete lack of play.
I hear you :(
Plenty of opportunities on my side, never the time or the schedule to commit.
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My tale is about the module I never got to run.
Back in 1983 I started writing a module( that's what we called em back then) that was the epic conclusion to the "ultimate" campaign.
Expedition to the astral castle, the epic conclusion to our campaign never came to fruition due to me over thinking it and thinking I could submit this to TSR and live out the rest of my days playing D&D.
It still sits in my garage, the pages slowly turning yellow.=(
I played a non-combatant in NWoD. I was a Frenchman who was a kind of mummy (we were using the new rules). I didn't have any crazy powers and totally enjoyed roleplaying this character. Everyone else was totally into hack 'n slash, so my poor Henri Ptolemaigne never lived up to his potential. Except for the bad accent. I totally overdid that.