I'm completely in love with the game.
I haven't seen a post about this yet, so I'm gonna throw it out there. Has anyone else noticed that the backs of the cards are darker/lighter than others? We can sometimes tell if a card comes from the base set or one of the expansion sets based on the back coloring. We've even gone as far as to have to close our eyes to draw a random card from the deck as to not go after the better loot.
I think Paizo has said they printed the entire base set and all the expansions in one go. I wonder how QA didn't catch this. I mean, it's not like they ran over to a Kinkos or something. If WotC can print millions and millions of MTG cards with the same back, I'm sure Paizo can easily print theirs more uniformly.
/rant
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Yeah, I've noticed that there are color differences but I've intentionally not looked at which cards are which, because I'd rather not know. I'm actually not sure if it's really widespread or just a few cards here and there, since the difference is relatively slight, and I have them sleeved, which makes it harder to tell.
The difference is usually minor on my cards, but I have a Blessing of Erastil that's hugely different in color from the rest.
I can generally tell which card is which now in certain runs, right down to if it's the villain, a monster, an ally or even a blessing. It's a skill I picked up from my childhood of trying to be a magician and doing tons of card tricks. It's drove me and my friends nuts because I honestly can't help it. I've resorted to having to buy coloured sleeves for the entire set.
Expensive but I really enjoy this game but my perception is ruining it for me so it was my only option.
I find that you really have to be paying attention to notice. I just get on and play.
My game came with 4 cards creased. If you lined them up next to each other, the defect worked its way from one card straight through the other three. If I had steamed them, the cards would have been misshapenly long. I had three potion of healings that were visibly marked. I sent Paizo a quick email and the next day customer service was in contact with me to fix my problem. Great response time, courteous and helpful. +1 awesome.
The reason the colors vary is because they use two different printers. As for some of them being different sizes, I haven't noticed anything.
My copy arrived recently. There were some cards damaged slightly, which would be an issue if It was a competitive game. I did not see any mis-prints. They were all playable enough for me with the bulk clear sleeves I'm using. In the future I'll probably go with an opaque sleeve solution if it comes to that.
Thus far, we've only used one printer for the actual card game. (We used a different printer for the *demo decks* we sent to retailers—the demo decks differ very obviously in color and very slightly in size compared to the finished game.)
Well I don't know what to tell you Vic, I mean take a look at This Link.
I've personally noticed all the villains and allies have darker backs.
Chief Technical Officer
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Ranseur, the photo you've got is definitely not normal.
Each Base Set box encompasses seevral different press sheets worth of cards, and it seems likely that one of your sheets was running off-color. Please drop a note with your details to customer.service@paizo.com and link to your photo!
Wasn't there an issue with first/second printings as well?
Adventure deck 2 for us came in a noticeably different style of box (side opening instead of top, taller tab) and the card backs are much lighter
- it makes it a real pain during adventure 2 scenarios - you can instantly tell a deck 2 card (and therefore whether it could be the henchman/villain or not) - it's hard not to be swayed by that kind of information, when deciding whether to explore again etc.
Adventure deck 2 for us came in a noticeably different style of box (side opening instead of top, taller tab) and the card backs are much lighterMy character add-on deck was side opening too; is the colour difference like the picture I posted above? The base set is on the left and the character add-on on the right.
I'd say it's pretty similar to that picture - (obviously it's hard to be 100% certain without knowing exact light levels/monitor settings etc.)
Side opening boxes are the second printing. They should also day printed in USA vs printed in China (which is where the first printing was done.)
I think what you have might be the best you can get. There are no first printing character add-on decks from China anymore (unless you can find a store that happens to have them in inventory still). And the Base Set has NOT yet been reprinted a second time, so it is only available as the first printing. So there really isn't anything Paizo can replace for you. All they have is the same thing you have.
There is a long thread about the second printing here.
The basics of it are that the game was way more popular than Paizo anticipated. So they used up the first printing copies very quickly. The success of the game gave them the confidence to move forward with additional adventure paths. They decided to move printing from China to the US to get better and more consistent quality. But that means the Chinese printings and US printings have some differences.
If you totally can't stand the difference, then I think you only have two options: Try to hunt down first printing copies by checking lots of stores and second hand markets (like ebay) or sleeve the cards.
I've sleeved my cards, even though I've got first printing copies of everything. I did so for a few reasons:
1. I play the game quite a bit and the sleeves make the cards hold up. I don't know if it was me or the cards, but before I sleeved I was nicking them up.
2. Errata. Sleeving allowed me to make these to cover all the errata that deal with the powers on the cards (probably the most important).
Granted, it is a time and monetary commitment to do so. But it was well worth it for me. If you do sleeve you will also need to do something about the insert, but there are options for that too (foam board, deck boxes, wooden inserts, etc.)
I hope that helps in some way.
Sorry to see you go.
Skull and Shackles (which comes out this summer) shouldn't have these issues since it will be entirely from the US printer. You might want to check that out still, even if you don't want to continue with Rise of the Runelords.
And in the winter there will be a third adventure path that should also be free from these issues. (About six months ago Vic mentioned they'd probably be announcing what the third one was going to be in six months. So maybe we'll know soon. Though with all the other work they've been undertaking, its understandable if they haven't been quite focused on that yet. I think Skull and Shackles just went to the printers last week.)
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Chief Technical Officer
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Thanks for the comprehensive explanation, I can't help but be irritated that Paizo seem to have garnered a lot of understanding for their situation whilst we get to like it or lump it.
Believe me, we're not any happier than you are about the fact that changing printers means there's a distinction between 1st printing and 2nd printing cards... but I will note that one of the reasons we have changed printers is that the US printer should be able to deliver greater color consistency than the Chinese printer could. Remember, the problem at the start of this thread was people having color variation *within the same boxed product*, and this change will help solve that problem.
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Chief Technical Officer
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And the Base Set has NOT yet been reprinted a second time, so it is only available as the first printing.
Second printing Base Sets should be showing up at retailers in the next week or two. We're still shipping first printing Base Sets for paizo.com orders, but we're also getting down to the end.
And the Base Set has NOT yet been reprinted a second time, so it is only available as the first printing.Second printing Base Sets should be showing up at retailers in the next week or two. We're still shipping first printing Base Sets for paizo.com orders, but we're also getting down to the end.
So it has finally happened? Congrats! Does that mean everything that has been released has been released in a second printing (i.e Base Set through Deck 5)?
Lollingsgrad: It looks like this means if you sell your copy of the Base Set, you can collect the game in all second printings now.
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Discounts would be cool, and with all the other great stuff Paizo has done, actually a possibility. I have all first prints to so I wouldn't take advantage of this, but it would be cool.
Replacements on the other hand, would get expensive. The base set retails for $60, giving those for free for anything other than the customer mailing in a sealed copy of the first printing that they can sell probably isn't financially feasible.
Can someone help with this situation over here in the UK please? I've been looking everywhere for the Base Set and am now delighted to see that it is going to a second printing. Can anyone tell me when it might arrive in the UK? I've been in contact with the UK distributor and they have no dates at the moment (not even sure that they knew it was coming!)
Regarding the expansions, if I buy the forthcoming 2nd print Base Set in the UK, will the backs of the cards in the expansions over here match or will I need to wait for 2nd prints of those too?
I can't say when it will arrive in the UK, though from Vic's comment above it shouldn't be too long. All second printings were done by the same printer, so if you buy all second printings the card sizes and backs should match.
I am pretty sure decks 2 through 5 have all now been issued in second printing, but I will find a thread to confirm that. (Deck 2 is the only one I'm not 100% sure on.) So you should be able to pick up the decks now and wait for the impending base set release.
But, there is a chance a retailer will still have a first printing in stock, so you might want to double check. All second printings say printed in USA and open on the side. All first printings say printed in China and open on the top.
Discounts would be cool, and with all the other great stuff Paizo has done, actually a possibility.Paizo does seem to have gotten a lot of goodwill from their customers. This is my first experience of them and as you can tell it hasn't gone so well. Out of curiosity, what have they done that makes you say they've done a lot of great stuff?
I'd say the following things:
1. Their interaction with their customers. Vic (who posted above) is the Chief Technical Officer at Paizo. If you looked through the forums you'd also see posts by Mike Selinker (PACG's main designer) as well as Chad Brown, Tanis O'Connor, and Brian Campbell (all on the design team). They all seem to enjoy playing PACG just as much as I do. That means they card about PACG not just as a product, but as a game. That is the real reason they switched to a US Printer. The Chinese cards weren't a high enough quality.
I think they went with the Chinese printer to start with to save costs, because they had no idea how well the game would sell and wanted to minimize their risk if they could. Once it was a hit they could have stuck with the Chinese printer, but they switched to a US printer. Even if you buy only Chinese printed cards, you will notice color saturation problems. They probably could have made more profit sticking with the Chinese printer, but they switched to US printers to increase the quality, potentially sacrificing some profit (I have no idea the inner workings of Paizo, so I'm just guessing here.) If you look through all the threads about the cards (there is one about issuing updated cards that had an errata were Vic talks about how the cards will be different) you'll see they didn't take the change between the printings lightly. It looks like they really thought about it.
And the isn't just true of the card game. There is a thread in the RPG forum where you can ask the creative director questions, whether they be related to the RPG or not. And he seems to do a great job answering them.
2. They are extremely helpful. I've called multiple times. Every time I've called during office hours (they open at 10 Pacific time) the phone has never rang more than 3 times and I've always had my question answered on that call. For instance, I asked about the possibility of a friend and I doubling up on a subscription (basically one of us getting two of each item) and if that would save us on costs. They told me the shipping price (2 decks cost the same to ship as 1) and how to set it up (it isn't a normal thing you can do, but they would set it up for me).
3. Looking over the customer service threads, I think they do a good job offering reasonable accommodations when Paizo makes a mistake. I see them giving credits for shipping the wrong product and letting the customer keep the product. I see them rushing missing parts of orders out the door. I see them taking great care when packing up shipments.
And they have been doing it for a while.
You can see some of the compliments they get here:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2io2f?Kudos-to-the-Paizo-warehouse-staff#1
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2irc1?CSWarehouse-people-at-Paizo-rock#1
In this one you'll see the CEO even lends a hand when extra help is needed in the warehouse.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2msgg?A-huge-thank-you-to-the-people-doing-the# 2
I remember seeing a thread one time about a customer's 500th order or something. One of the warehouse staff made a goblin mask for them by decorating a paper plate and included it in their shipment as a way of saying thanks for being a long time customer.
So basically, everyone in the company seems to care about you and about the products they sell. That doesn't mean their products won't have mistakes or that there won't be errors from time to time. But in the long run, they seem to do what they can to make their products and service have the best quality they can have.
I second Hawkmoon on this one. I had a small issue with two blessing of Gozreh being miscut in my AP4 and they had two replacements sent out within a day and I had the cards by Saturday after I posted a thread on Wednesday. The times I called into customer service they were super helpful and made me feel valued as a customer.
I am very happy that I stumbled upon this game and this company and have faith that future printings will be more consistent.
I am fine with the fact that the overwhelming popularity of the game kind of caught the team by surprise to an extent and that the printing changes that ensued created a small, but meaningful difference in some of the product, but to me it does not make me enjoy the game itself less and I am again, very confident that subsequent AP's will be far more consistent.
This company cares, and their initial offering in the deckbuilding/card game genre, to me, has been nothing short of a success. I look forward to my future relationship as a customer with Paizo. :)
For me the color differences between 2nd printing and 1st are glaring and make it very difficult to play without knowing when a certain expansion's cards, particularly the villains, are coming up. I made the mistake of buying a few expansions at once and, lo and behold, they are of mixed printings! So I'm going to have a half dark back and half light back. For me, these differences are disrupting and obvious.
Its looking like people have solved this with opaque deck protectors. I have never played a game enough to warrant card sleeves but I guess I'm going to have to drop $70 or so on some.
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I too have a rather severe color difference in my cards as well, but since I never bothered learning which card has which back that doesn't bother me, plus I plan to sleeve them all eventually.
My real gripe is that I have a ton of actually damaged cards straight from the box, most of the expansions I have bought have had one or two cards that have had portions of their backs removed, like they were taped and then had the tape removed along with portions of the picture. Which makes those pretty easily marked. I just remove them since so far none have been villain or henchman cards, and since I intend to sleeve them all eventually I guess it wont matter too much, but still.
The worst damages for me were the sins of the saviors set where it looked like a lot of the cards had been drawn on with a green pencil or crayon, Since they are fine lines that don't mess with the card text I just deal, but I spent a lot of money thus far on this game, and while it is a ton of fun, I am not very pleased with the quality control demonstrated by the printers.
My real gripe is that I have a ton of actually damaged cards straight from the box, most of the expansions I have bought have had one or two cards that have had portions of their backs removed, like they were taped and then had the tape removed along with portions of the picture. Which makes those pretty easily marked. I just remove them since so far none have been villain or henchman cards, and since I intend to sleeve them all eventually I guess it wont matter too much, but still.
The worst damages for me were the sins of the saviors set where it looked like a lot of the cards had been drawn on with a green pencil or crayon, Since they are fine lines that don't mess with the card text I just deal, but I spent a lot of money thus far on this game, and while it is a ton of fun, I am not very pleased with the quality control demonstrated by the printers.
With something like that you should return them to the store for a replacement. The retailer can return them to the distributor, who can return them to Paizo.
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They have long since been opened and played, couldn't return them if I wanted. Though it is nothing card sleeves wont fix (which I plan to do anyway), with the exception of the green pencil/crayon stuff on the front.
I just wish it hadn't happened, again its a gripe not me raging, though were I Paizo, I would demand that the quality care get stepped up a notch. Since I get damaged cards quite frequently I can't imagine it is a rare occurrence, and something like that might affect future sales.
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sorry it took so long to reply but I just now had time to get online and check my posts.
Pyris,
I've not seen defects as you describe. Please do drop a note to customer.service@paizo.com. I don't care when you bought them!
Sure thing; I will type them a letter as soon as I finish typing this one.
Edit: Typed up and sent.
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The card back color difference between my Character Add-On and Base Set (light backs) and 2-5 of the RotRL adventure decks (dark backs) has caused problems for me. When shuffling an escaped villain into location decks with blessings, chances are he's dark and the blessings are light, so I need to literally stare upwards at the ceiling or shuffle with my eyes closed to not know which deck he's going into.
It's something I can live with, but it's definitely something that has caused noticeable issues with gameplay. I also know which cards tend to be more valuable before they're turned up, since AP boons are usually better than the core set.
This seems to be an old discussion, but I just started with the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path. I also have Deck 2. I have experienced most of the concerns voiced here and have sent an email to the address Vic suggested. Will cross fingers and update as I go through the process.
Rise of the Runelords has two separate printings which have slightly different card sizes and slightly different card back colors. There was the Chinese first printing and the US second printing. You can verify which printing each of your components are by looking at the box. For the base set the printing location is on the underside of the box, for the add-on deck and adventure decks it is located on the back. Furthermore, for the add-on deck and adventure decks, the Chinese 1st printing has its opening flap at the top whereas the US 2nd printing has the opening flaps on the sides.
When purchasing the rest of your adventure decks, be sure to get the printing that matches your game to avoid this issue in the future, or just sleeve your cards. If you order your adventure decks on paizo.com you should be getting exclusively the US 2nd printing. Other adventure paths (Skulls & Shackles, Wrath of the Righteous) do not have this printing issue and everything you buy should match.