But I don't want to play that character


Pathfinder Society

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Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Good morning,

Legal character question.

Going to be playing Fangwood Keep this weekend. I have an inquisitor 3 and a bard 5, both of which are legal.

Problem is, I don't want to play them.*

Now normally I'd not worry, grab a Kyra or Harsk out of the closet and take them for a spin, applying it to a different PC when they hit level 4.

Here's my questions.

Since I have a legal character(s) in that range, can I play an iconic?

If I play an Iconic, can I apply it to a brand new level one, like I could a Scenario.

Related: If I can, how do I apply it? 1 XP 500 gold, 2 PP?

Just curious.

*

Spoiler:
Yes I'm boon shopping, both the in range characters could use the boon, but I've been playing with another Lore Warden concept and the idea of making a dueling school that 'pays prestige' is kind of cool.

3/5

The Guide wrote:
For modules and Adventure Path content below 9th level, if you do not have a character in the correct level range, you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character

From the language on Pg. 28 of the guide it doesn't sound like you have the option to play a pregen if you've got a character in that range. Pg. 29 has the answers for gp, XP, and PP.

~NPEH

Liberty's Edge

Nathan is right, if you have a legal character within level range, you must use that character. You can only use pregens if you are GMing a group of 3, or if you have no character at all in level range.

Grand Lodge

I agree with Nathan. You should play one of the characters you have in the level range.

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Regarding the quote from the guide, the fact that you can use a pregen to play if you don't have a suitable character does not imply that you can't play a pregen if you do have a character.

There are good reasons to do so. It's useful to be able to fill out a table with a suitable class that you don't yourself have a character of. It's also nice to be able to play in an unexpected game that crops up even if you don't have your own characters with you.

You should have followed Admiral Hopper's advice.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You know, I don't think that sentence in the guide was meant to restrict it like that. (I know that is WHAT it says, I think think it wasn't the intention to limit it like that). It's pretty silly.

What if out of all 4 players, noone has a healer in range? Noone could switch to Kyra? Or if ALL 4 players only have a Wizard in range? Or 4 life oracles?

Matthew, I think you left your character sheets or chronicle sheets for your Bard and Inquisitor at home that day. Or (for the inquisitor) you left the APG at home and don't have a legal source for the class at the table.

I for one think the option to play a pregen is always acceptable.

Matthew Morris wrote:

If I play an Iconic, can I apply it to a brand new level one, like I could a Scenario.

Related: If I can, how do I apply it? 1 XP 500 gold, 2 PP?

This is in the Guide, Page 29 under Legal Pathfinder Society Characters:

GP is reduced to 1,398 (or 699 for slow track). 3xp and 4pp as usual for modules.

The Exchange

If you are playing with a proxy and the proxy dies does that apply to the character that would gain from the proxy? Why should I be able to use a junky substitute and apply the gains to my actual PC? That seems wrong to me....no risk, no reward. Who would ever risk their favorite character if they can just get proxies to do the work for them with no true drawback?
I don't know if it's legal but to me it's a work-around and a cheat.

The Exchange

Fake Healer wrote:

If you are playing with a proxy and the proxy dies does that apply to the character that would gain from the proxy? Why should I be able to use a junky substitute and apply the gains to my actual PC? That seems wrong to me....no risk, no reward. Who would ever risk their favorite character if they can just get proxies to do the work for them with no true drawback?

I don't know if it's legal but to me it's a work-around and a cheat.

You still have to put a character number on the sign-in sheet when you play a pregen. If the pregen dies, so does the character number that you wrote down.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I agree with CRobledo, both in content and tone. Play a pre-gen, if it gives you joy.

Spoiler:
Bear in mind that the boon you're looking for won't kick in until 4th level at the earliest. (4 PP + 6PP + 6PP) But you already knew that.

Liberty's Edge

What about this from the guide (emphasis mine)?

The Guide said wrote:
If you don’t have time to create a new character or simply wish to try out a new character class, you may choose to use one of several level-appropriate pregenerated characters available at paizo.com/pathfindersociety or from your local event coordinator.

Seems to me that you can play a pregen whenever you want.

Silver Crusade

Equal opportunity access to Seela! Hell ya!

3/5

I didn't even look on page 6. Just looked at Chapter 6, so whoops, my bad.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Thank you, gentlemen, for the guide page reference, I missed that when I read through. (Interesting that it's a net less gold for running 3 tier 1 scenarios, then again you didn't burn any consumables)

@Brock, I assume you mean "easier to ask forgiveness than permission." That does occur to me, but I thought it best, in the spirit of organized play, to be as legal as possible.

@Fakey, If my generic Lem/Kyra/Harsk/Seoni dies, I apply it to my 09 number, which is already conviently named 'Doornail" I don't plan to, for example, apply it to my "About to turn level 2 sorcerer."

@Chris, yeah I know. :-) Normally I'd not be playing at all, but am putting off leaving for Florida for a day because it's a first time GMing for one of our group, and I want to be supportive.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I don't understand how any of this has anything to do with making one of those characters a paly. d-:

Dark Archive

Drogon wrote:
I don't understand how any of this has anything to do with making one of those characters a paly. d-:

I approve of this post.

The Exchange

Matthew Morris wrote:

Thank you, gentlemen, for the guide page reference, I missed that when I read through. (Interesting that it's a net less gold for running 3 tier 1 scenarios, then again you didn't burn any consumables)

@Brock, I assume you mean "easier to ask forgiveness than permission." That does occur to me, but I thought it best, in the spirit of organized play, to be as legal as possible.

@Fakey, If my generic Lem/Kyra/Harsk/Seoni dies, I apply it to my 09 number, which is already conviently named 'Doornail" I don't plan to, for example, apply it to my "About to turn level 2 sorcerer."

@Chris, yeah I know. :-) Normally I'd not be playing at all, but am putting off leaving for Florida for a day because it's a first time GMing for one of our group, and I want to be supportive.

Yeah but if you have to put the character's number on the sign in sheet then it wouldn't apply to your "about to turn level 2 sorcerer" because you would have put down 09 for Mr. Doornail before the game started. Unless you are assigning effects to whichever character you wish after the game which is not legal. The character should be chosen before the game, as you sign in on the sign in sheet.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Fake Healer wrote:
Unless you are assigning effects to whichever character you wish after the game which is not legal. The character should be chosen before the game, as you sign in on the sign in sheet.

FAQ to the contrary

3/5

Fake Healer wrote:

If you are playing with a proxy and the proxy dies does that apply to the character that would gain from the proxy? Why should I be able to use a junky substitute and apply the gains to my actual PC? That seems wrong to me....no risk, no reward. Who would ever risk their favorite character if they can just get proxies to do the work for them with no true drawback?

I don't know if it's legal but to me it's a work-around and a cheat.

I think it's a fine trade. If all you do is play proxies, then your "favorite character" remains academic, and you never get to play your character. Terrible price to pay for your character living 100% of the time, imho.

5/5

It's a compromise Fakey to help tables to make (with a pregen), instead of having people walk away because they won't risk their real character dying from using a pregen.

The topic here is another compromise, between forcing bad table dynamics on people that care about that sort of thing, and allowing the cherry-picking of pregens and where to assign credit.

Of course (*peering around*), if it gets abused, the option may be removed.


Thinking about this over lunch, it also occurred to me that there may just be people who DONT want to play a character they have in range. I have a witch at 4-5 (can't remember exactly) that I just got tired of playing, and would rather play a pregen than play her again.

I'd hate if I was "forced" to play her instead of a pregen just because I made her once...

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

The Fourth Horseman wrote:
Fake Healer wrote:

If you are playing with a proxy and the proxy dies does that apply to the character that would gain from the proxy? Why should I be able to use a junky substitute and apply the gains to my actual PC? That seems wrong to me....no risk, no reward. Who would ever risk their favorite character if they can just get proxies to do the work for them with no true drawback?

I don't know if it's legal but to me it's a work-around and a cheat.
I think it's a fine trade. If all you do is play proxies, then your "favorite character" remains academic, and you never get to play your character. Terrible price to pay for your character living 100% of the time, imho.

I've found slow advancement is great for that.

For example I ran Broken Chains and applied it to Ksenia, because the idea of her being an Eagle Knight makes me laugh. So when I hit 6th level, I went to slow advancement for when I play her, so she didn't jump straight to 7th level from Broken Chains. Net result, I get the GM credit for Broken Chains, and Ksenia still gets to 'be there' for three scenarios for 6th level. :-)

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Drogon wrote:
I don't understand how any of this has anything to do with making one of those characters a paly. d-:

Perils of posting on the work PC, no spell check in IE.

The Exchange

I just see it as a good way to get through the weak areas certain builds may have like lower levels until a PRC or multiclass build comes into it's own. I just don't think that a Pregen should be able to help elevate an existing character...that's like me learning to fight in a warzone because I know a dude that just came back from war. If the actual character isn't involved it just seems cheesy.....guess it's just me. Carry on.

Silver Crusade

I would NEVER use Seela to "power level" all my multi-classed PCs. <Glances around nervously>

Sovereign Court

Just make sure you don't accidentally forget your character at home and end up having to play a pre-made anyway. ;3


Fake Healer wrote:
I just see it as a good way to get through the weak areas certain builds may have like lower levels until a PRC or multiclass build comes into it's own. I just don't think that a Pregen should be able to help elevate an existing character...that's like me learning to fight in a warzone because I know a dude that just came back from war. If the actual character isn't involved it just seems cheesy.....guess it's just me. Carry on.

You can already do this with GM credit.


Which is important, because without GM incentives, everyone wants to play, and no one wants to judge.

Silver Crusade

Nah, I'm okay with either. When I GM, it gets done my way :)

Silver Crusade

I have a lv 9 druid that I have no intention of ever playing again. Is it my understanding that if I play in a 7-11 and do not have a lv 7 character that I am forced to play my druid and assign credit to this character even though he is retired? Is there an official way I can retire a character so I am not forced to do this?


Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:
Which is important, because without GM incentives, everyone wants to play, and no one wants to judge.

Nope, I'd still GM.

Dark Archive

You are never required to apply credit to a specific character. You just can't use a pregen that is the same level as your character and then apply the credit to that character anyway.


Fake Healer wrote:
I just see it as a good way to get through the weak areas certain builds may have like lower levels until a PRC or multiclass build comes into it's own.

Aaaah, you mean easy mode.

Gotcha.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Mike Brock has told the Venture Officers that if you have a character in the level range for a scenario ro module then you cannot play a pregenerated iconic character, then you must play your actual character.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, you can choose to play a pregen, but if you are going to apply it to your inquisitor or bard, then you can not. The Fangwood Keep chronicle sheet is for a new character or character that not yet reached the level requirement. No bait and switch.


Michael Eshleman wrote:
Mike Brock has told the Venture Officers that if you have a character in the level range for a scenario ro module then you cannot play a pregenerated iconic character, then you must play your actual character.

link?

Once again, I would hope this is NOT the case because the first time someone tells me I can't play in a 5-6-7 module with a pregen because I have a 5 witch I NEVER INTEND TO PLAY AGAIN, I would rather leave.

Also:

The Guide wrote:
If you don’t have time to create a new character or simply wish to try out a new character class, you may choose to use one of several level-appropriate pregenerated characters available at paizo.com/pathfindersociety or from your local event coordinator.

Scarab Sages

CRobledo wrote:

You know, I don't think that sentence in the guide was meant to restrict it like that. (I know that is WHAT it says, I think think it wasn't the intention to limit it like that). It's pretty silly.

What if out of all 4 players, noone has a healer in range? Noone could switch to Kyra? Or if ALL 4 players only have a Wizard in range? Or 4 life oracles?

Matthew, I think you left your character sheets or chronicle sheets for your Bard and Inquisitor at home that day. Or (for the inquisitor) you left the APG at home and don't have a legal source for the class at the table.

I for one think the option to play a pregen is always acceptable.

I agree

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dhjika wrote:
CRobledo wrote:

You know, I don't think that sentence in the guide was meant to restrict it like that. (I know that is WHAT it says, I think think it wasn't the intention to limit it like that). It's pretty silly.

What if out of all 4 players, noone has a healer in range? Noone could switch to Kyra? Or if ALL 4 players only have a Wizard in range? Or 4 life oracles?

Matthew, I think you left your character sheets or chronicle sheets for your Bard and Inquisitor at home that day. Or (for the inquisitor) you left the APG at home and don't have a legal source for the class at the table.

I for one think the option to play a pregen is always acceptable.

I agree

Also agreed.

Michael Eshleman wrote:
Mike Brock has told the Venture Officers that if you have a character in the level range for a scenario ro module then you cannot play a pregenerated iconic character, then you must play your actual character.

I don't see what a course of action like this would solve. It would just encourage people to lie about their characters.

Person who wants to play pregen: "Oh, well I can play a level 1 pregen. I have a level 5 but I don't want to play him in the 1-2 subtier. That wouldn't be fun for anyone."
Another player: "You need to play your character in level range if you have one."
Person who wants to play pregen: "Oh, sorry, I just noticed this chronicle sheet that levels him from 5 to 6. Woops! My bad. Guess I can't play that 1-5 after all with him in the 1-2 subtier after all. Level 1 pregen it is!"

How this should have gone:

Person who wants to play pregen: Person who wants to play pregen: "Oh, well I can play a level 1 pregen. I have a level 5 but I don't want to play him in the 1-2 subtier. That wouldn't be fun for anyone."
Another player: "Alright, that sounds completely reasonable."
...And then everyone proceeds to have a good time.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Michael Eshleman wrote:
Mike Brock has told the Venture Officers that if you have a character in the level range for a scenario or module then you cannot play a pregenerated iconic character; you must play your actual character.

I hope that's not true, or that Mike has reconsidered since then. There are all sorts of good reasons not to play a given character in a particular game. (At one time, I drew up about 13, off the top of my head. CRobledo already put his finger on one of them: party balance, and someone else mentioned another: dissilusionment with the given PC.

Here's another: "I've played through part of a series, like 'Rats of Round Mountain' or 'Devil You Know', with my summoner. I want to finish that series with the same PC. If I play this particular adventure with that character, he will level out of Tier."

Or "My character in level range for this module is a summoner. This GM hates summoners." Or "Each of the other four players brought a 4th or 5th-level PC to this notoriously difficult Tier 1-5 scenario. I'd rather participate with a 4th-level pre-gen than scramble to survive with my 1st-level summoner.")

All other things being equal, it's better to play an actual character rather than a pre-gen. But all other things are rarely equal. Requiring the players to use actual character will result in players choosing to leave the game, when they could have enjoyed a great session with a pre-gen.

5/5

Pretty sure others are correct, that *playing* a pregen is always an option. Applying *credit* from a pregen is restricted to characters of lower level than the pregen (for them to apply when reaching the level of the pregen).

Dark Archive

I'm pretty sure the intent of Mike's post is so that people do not play a pregen as a safety measure against losing a character that could legally play the same scenario.

It should not be a matter of having to use a character you do not want to use, especially if you plan to apply the credit to an alternate character anyway.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

So, Adam, I guess I don't understand the campaign rules. Let's suppose I'm running Thornkeep level 3 (for characters level 3-5). You and Majuba come to the table, each with a 3rd-level PC, but after you see the other PCs, you each say you would rather play a 4th-level pre-gen.

Should I require you to play the PCs you brought?

I don't want to be in the situation where I rule that I trust you have a good reason, and you can play a pre-gen, but I think Majuba is trying to avoid risk to his PC, so he has to play his character.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Chris Mortika wrote:

So, Adam, I guess I don't understand the campaign rules. Let's suppose I'm running Thornkeep level 3 (for characters level 3-5). You and Majuba come to the table, each with a 3rd-level PC, but after you see the other PCs, you each say you would rather play a 4th-level pre-gen.

Should I require you to play the PCs you brought?

I don't want to be in the situation where I rule that I trust you have a good reason, and you can play a pre-gen, but I think Majuba is trying to avoid risk to his PC, so he has to play his character.

I think the idea is that they could play pregens, but the credit couldn't go to the legal PCs they brought - it would have to go to a lower-level (or new) PC.

5/5

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Chris Mortika wrote:

So, Adam, I guess I don't understand the campaign rules. Let's suppose I'm running Thornkeep level 3 (for characters level 3-5). You and Majuba come to the table, each with a 3rd-level PC, but after you see the other PCs, you each say you would rather play a 4th-level pre-gen.

Should I require you to play the PCs you brought?

I don't want to be in the situation where I rule that I trust you have a good reason, and you can play a pre-gen, but I think Majuba is trying to avoid risk to his PC, so he has to play his character.

But just look at Majuba's face! The crazy eyes, the shifty expression. I can just tell he's trying to pull a fast one on you. Whereas Adam's entire face looks like it is made of solid stone or metal of some sort. That's a face I can trust not to try to Bluff me.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Matthew Morris wrote:
Drogon wrote:
I don't understand how any of this has anything to do with making one of those characters a paly. d-:
Perils of posting on the work PC, no spell check in IE.

Hey! Someone fixed your title! How did you acquire that kind of influence? I've seen terrible TERRIBLE wording/spelling/grammar within titles that just lingers seemingly forever, to the point I end up hiding the thread 'cuz I just can't take it. This one, at least, was amusing in its result...

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Huh, I flagged the OP as having a markup/display issue. Didn't really think it'd work, but I guess it did?

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Jiggy wrote:
I think the idea is that they could play pregens, but the credit couldn't go to the legal PCs they brought - it would have to go to a lower-level (or new) PC.

The pe-gens are 3rd level; they are lower-level. Or do you mean "low enough so as not to be legal for the adventure"?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Chris Mortika wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
I think the idea is that they could play pregens, but the credit couldn't go to the legal PCs they brought - it would have to go to a lower-level (or new) PC.
The pe-gens are 3rd level; they are lower-level. Or do you mean "low enough so as not to be legal for the adventure"?

Yeah, that. Apply the credit to a new PC or a PC who is otherwise too low to play the adventure; basically, pretend the legal PC doesn't exist.

That way, you can accommodate awkward situations, but also don't allow people to credit an in-tier PC without playing them.

Scarab Sages

Since the Fangwood Keep Module is 3-5, the OP can only apply this chronicle sheet to characters of 1-2 levels, if the OP decides to use a level 4 pregen.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Cao Phen wrote:
Since the Fangwood Keep Module is 3-5, the OP can only apply this chronicle sheet to characters of 1-2 levels, if the OP decides to use a level 4 pregen.

Nods I know that. Good to have it clarified though.


Cao Phen wrote:
Since the Fangwood Keep Module is 3-5, the OP can only apply this chronicle sheet to characters of 1-2 levels, if the OP decides to use a level 4 pregen.

Once again, source? The guide clearly states (p 29 under Applying Credit) that a player playing a pregenerated character can do so and hold the credit until the time the other character reaches the level of the pregen played. That tells me he can apply it to any character of levels 3 or lower. ( by the strictest reading; I actually think any character 4 or lower qualifies, for cases like I presented above like party balance)

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