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drbrain |
Just recently played the start of a PFS campaign at my FLGS. I built a sort of odd Bat Shaman Druid and I'd like some help planning for the future to make him as cool as possible.
Nahaak "Speaks With Shadows"
Lvl 1 Human(Shoanti) Druid (Bat Shaman)
STR: 13
DEX: 15
CON: 12
INT: 13
WIS: 15
CHA: 12
Druid Doman: Night
FEATS:
-Point Blank Shot
-Precise Shot
-Blind Fight (from Night Domain)
Traits:
Shoanti Tattoo
Heirloom Weapon (Proficiency-Longbow)
WEAPONS:
Longbow
Club
Scimitar
Shoanti Bolas
That's the basics I've got so far. I added "Heart of the Wilderness" to his Human racial traits as well. I intended for him to be a sort of shamanic hunter, his main mode of attack being the longbow (which I will have Masterwork Transformation cast upon ASAP), and using his druid spells for support and utility. I'd like to stay a primarily ranged character, as the rest of the party are primarily melee (Samurai, Rogue, and melee focused Cleric). I can still rebuild, since I'm level 1, so aside from wanting to stay ranged and a Bat Shaman I'm not super attached to anything else here. Any advice for the future of this character?
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Atarlost |
Hmm. That actually looks like a shaman archetype that doesn't completely and hopelessly suck. Color me surprised.
Your long term plan should probably be casting since you don't really have anything to boost your archery. It's also possible your heirloom could be lost or damaged and you can't replace it. I'm also not sure if you can get it enhanced in PFS. I'd look at it as a first half plan that probably won't scale well into the second half. The wildshape delay hurts a little getting Natural Spell, but you do get one of the best casting forms a little early even so. PBS and precise shot don't have to be wasted. You don't have many touch spells, but there are a couple potential gems.
Produce Flame is core and pretty sad except that as an instantly replenishing thrown weapon it's compatible with rapid shot and iteratives. At level 8 one casting will get you 2 full rounds of 3 attacks with rapid shot and one round sans your iterative with each doing 1d6+5 or 1d6+6 within 30' That should be competitive with archery. Less damage since it doesn't work with deadly aim, but it's a touch attack so it'll do better against high AC enemies and if you're spending your time as a bat it's something you can do without shifting form.
Spit Venom (UM) gets little from PBS, but being able to ignore the penalty for firing into melee with precise shot will be worthwhile. Your rogue friend will thank you for memorizing this spell frequently since it's a no save no SR 1 round blind and most foes are denied their dex bonus when blind. The venom itself isn't spectacular, but it should severely impair anything with a weak fortitude save.
With a long term casting emphasis in mind I'd drop strength to 12 (the only reason to get 13 strength is power attack and you don't want that) and dump charisma to 7 to get wisdom to 18 (assuming it's currently a raw 13 with +2 racial). If you have a domain and are not emphasizing summoning there's nothing worth having charisma for on a point buy druid. If you do want to stay archery heavy you should do the same thing but pump dexterity to 18 instead.
Either way your level 3 feat should probably be rapid shot and your level 7 natural spell. Going for archery your level 5 and 9 feats are deadly aim and manyshot. If you plan on spending most of your time in bat form you probably want natural speech at level 9 instead and probably spell focus evocation or conjuration or transmutation at level 5.
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drbrain |
As for my heirloom, I can have one item with Masterwork Transformation cast on it, and it's a 2nd level spell on pretty much every spell list. I shouldn't have much trouble finding an NPC to mumbo some jumbo over it, or just wait till level 3 to zap it myself. I can then enchant it as I like, if I'm not mistaken. Unless I'm somehow barred from even casting that on it. I shouldn't really even need Natural Spell/Natural Speech too badly, since at level 5 my Totem Transform lets me grow wings and fly for flying caster purposes in a fight, and it's 1min/level per day. Any other uses of bat form would usually be as an "eye in the sky" between fights right?
Only reason I thought I might need a little Charisma was in case I had to Wild Empathy something. Then again, I guess dealing with animal NPCs is what Charm Animal is for, when you get down to it. My summoned bats will attack without me having to Charisma check against them won't they?
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Tom S 820 |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/ghoul_PATH.jpg)
Just recently played the start of a PFS campaign at my FLGS. I built a sort of odd Bat Shaman Druid and I'd like some help planning for the future to make him as cool as possible.
Nahaak "Speaks With Shadows"
Lvl 1 Human(Shoanti) Druid (Bat Shaman)
STR: 13
DEX: 15
CON: 12
INT: 13
WIS: 15
CHA: 12Druid Doman: Night
FEATS:
-Point Blank Shot
-Precise Shot
-Blind Fight (from Night Domain)Traits:
Shoanti Tattoo
Heirloom Weapon (Proficiency-Longbow)WEAPONS:
Longbow
Club
Scimitar
Shoanti BolasThat's the basics I've got so far. I added "Heart of the Wilderness" to his Human racial traits as well. I intended for him to be a sort of shamanic hunter, his main mode of attack being the longbow (which I will have Masterwork Transformation cast upon ASAP), and using his druid spells for support and utility. I'd like to stay a primarily ranged character, as the rest of the party are primarily melee (Samurai, Rogue, and melee focused Cleric). I can still rebuild, since I'm level 1, so aside from wanting to stay ranged and a Bat Shaman I'm not super attached to anything else here. Any advice for the future of this character?
To many odd stats
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Tom S 820 |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/ghoul_PATH.jpg)
Eldritch Hierage feat chain to get (Shadow bloodline) powers like:
Shadowstrike (Sp): At 1st level, you can make a melee touch attack as a standard action that inflicts 1d4 points of nonlethal damage + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. In addition, the target is dazzled for 1 minute. Creatures with low-light vision or darkvision are not dazzled by this ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Drop "Precise Shot" to Skill Focus (Stealth)
Use Focused Study abilty for humans Skill Focus (Stealth) so the long term feat tax of Eldritch Hierage feat chain is tax free.
Focused Study: All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, such humans gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.
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Tom S 820 |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/ghoul_PATH.jpg)
You will never have enough feat to make you a good archer. So do not try. Try hitting touch AC as much as you can with things like Produce Flame and Shadowstrike.
With this guy you should start the fight Hidden and attack a target with your Shoanti Bolas trip and trip the target and leave them for the other melee to finsh off. While you you move on to other tagets with your range touch attacks. This give you a reason not to have Precise Shot because you are never attacking the one that melee are piling on. Also if thier is no targets for you move on to then move in to melee to give basic flank and aid other to your melee guys so they finsh off the down target. -4 AC vs melee prone, -2 AC flank, +2 to hit form Aid other that is a +8 point swing you gave to your melee ally. In my group we call it set the "Pick" so the melee can take Power attack "Shoot". It called team fighing or team play.
I'd like to stay a primarily ranged character, as the rest of the party are primarily melee (Samurai, Rogue, and melee focused Cleric.
With out see the other build I would say you party is a melee and up close type of fighters 60 ft or less. ie Charge and the melee fight is on. So having long range shot with the long bow maybe nice it gose against the strength of the rest of the party and yours with wild shape. For you I would think about a Pilum as the Heir loom weapon.
Pilum
This tip of this heavy javelin is designed to break off and embed itself into a shield once it reaches its target.
Benefit: Like ammunition, a thrown pilum that hits its target is destroyed. If you hit an shield-using opponent with a pilum, he loses the AC bonus from that shield until he takes a standard action to pry out the remnants of the pilum.
Pilum 1d8x2 20ft
Or make Shoanti Bolas the heirloom weapon so it +4 to trip CMB roll.
There by let you switch Shoanti Tattoo trait to Strong Arm, Supple Wrist.
Strong Arm, Supple Wrist
You have been trained in the javelin and the spear, and know how to make the best use of your momentum.
Benefit: Whenever you move at least 10 feet before making an attack with a thrown weapon, you add 10 feet to the range increment of the weapon thrown.
Restriction: You can only gain this benefit once per round
This Range set of weapon mess up bad guys action ecomany or they suck.
-2 or more to AC for no shield or give up move action to get rid of the pilum in the shield. So no full attack on a round = win for the party.
-4 to attack rolls or stand up proking AoO form you and you and your allies. So no full attack on a round = win for the party.
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RainyDayNinja RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 |
![Grigori](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9032-Grigori.jpg)
I agree that you're wasting a lot of your build points on odd stats that aren't helping you. Plus, I'm not sure how much good the 13 Int and 12 Cha are doing you, especially since you don't have an animal companion. And if you want to stick to buffing and utility with your spells, you don't need much Wis. I'd recommend stats more like: 12/17/14/11/14/10
And with no buffing spells, medium BAB, and no bonus feats, your archery is going to be subpar; you can probably only afford to take Deadly Aim OR Rapid Shot, not both. I'd probably pick up one of those at level 3, and Weapon Focus at level 5 (or possibly the other way around).
And there's a trait for Andoran characters (and possibly another one for worshippers of Erastil as well, IIRC) that gives proficiency with longbows. If you take that instead of Heirloom Weapon, you won't run the risk of losing that one specific bow, and can spend 2PP to pick up a masterwork composite longbow, to save yourself some cash early on.
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Tom S 820 |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/ghoul_PATH.jpg)
Only reason I thought I might need a little Charisma was in case I had to Wild Empathy something. Then again, I guess dealing with animal NPCs is what Charm Animal is for, when you get down to it. My summoned bats will attack without me having to Charisma check against them won't they?
There is no handel animal roll needed for any Summon type of spell.
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Tom S 820 |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/ghoul_PATH.jpg)
Debuff Druid spell list is small but it there.
1st
Entangle
Mudball
Ray of Sickening
Weaken Powder
2nd
Pox Pustules
Accelerate Poison
binding-earth
Frigid Touch
Pernicious Poison
Tar Ball
3rd
Contagion
Nature's Exile
Pup Shape
Poison
4th
Moonstruck
Touch of Slime
5th
Old Salt's Curse
6th
Plague Storm
Sirocco
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drbrain |
I do like some of Tom's suggestions for a more control based build. A few things though:
-I can't Heirloom in Shoanti Bolas, they're exotic. I sort of want to keep them though for the control potential, since we don't have a bard who can cast grease everywhere.
-The longbow is something I'm attached to mostly for flavor purposes. The Shoanti clan he's with are archers/hunters, and having a solid ranged attack I don't need to burn spells for seemed snazzy. Better than toting a sling, anyway :P If it's really going to hurt me that awfully much, I guess I'm willing to drop it for spearchucking, but if the difference is marginal, then I'd like to keep the bow. Looking at the factions again, I could see him fitting in with the Andoran, since they're enemies of Cheliax and so are the Shoanti, so the bow proficiency trait works there.
I played my first game claiming Grand Lodge as my faction. Can I still change before level 2 without penalty?
I feel like I should apologize for my wonky stats for some reason lol. I'm a little new to Pathfinder Society, though I've played Pathfinder at home before, and I'm the kind of guy that doesn't want to be absolutely poop at something just in case it's my (insert skill check I'm bad at here) that becomes clutch for the party. I will be adjusting them in a more focused manner though :)
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Tom S 820 |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/ghoul_PATH.jpg)
Wasting trait to get long bow for flavor is not that big deal. I see where you are coming from. Look at wildshape and your spells that is where your strenght is form. Wild shape it strong melee for most Naturel Attacks use your full BaB. I do not know of any wildshape forms that are good for archer.
Archer long term you will need to add one of the following class: Fighter, Ranger, and/or Barbarian. To keep it strong but, if you take one of those class to add to your druid then you will truely waste abilty to use the long bow via Heirloom weapon due to the fact that they all give profecnty with a long bow.
Ranger/Druid is a classic combo or Druid / Barbarian they both have some abilty to work with wildshape.
To me I see this guy if straith druid wild-shaping in to bat form flying over the battle field and droping spells like a jet plane drops bomds. Also you can drop Summon Nature Alley in the back field like falling paratroopers to help with your party main thrust vs the bad guys to flank them. But that my point of view. The Long bow gives you range but long term you will not need it. It will sit there and collect dust.
If there is 4 or 5 fight per mod it range will come in to play 1 per mod. 3 mod per level time 12 levels mean your bow range will be usefull about 36 maybe fights for the whole build. Your range touch stuff even thou limted by it short range will be more usefull long term about 3 or 4 per mod. There for 3.5 x 3 x 12 = 126 vs 36. That is greater by factor of about 3 times.
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Atarlost |
As for my heirloom, I can have one item with Masterwork Transformation cast on it, and it's a 2nd level spell on pretty much every spell list. I shouldn't have much trouble finding an NPC to mumbo some jumbo over it, or just wait till level 3 to zap it myself. I can then enchant it as I like, if I'm not mistaken. Unless I'm somehow barred from even casting that on it. I shouldn't really even need Natural Spell/Natural Speech too badly, since at level 5 my Totem Transform lets me grow wings and fly for flying caster purposes in a fight, and it's 1min/level per day. Any other uses of bat form would usually be as an "eye in the sky" between fights right?
Only reason I thought I might need a little Charisma was in case I had to Wild Empathy something. Then again, I guess dealing with animal NPCs is what Charm Animal is for, when you get down to it. My summoned bats will attack without me having to Charisma check against them won't they?
Totem transformation is measured in minutes. Wildshape is measured in hours and you look like a harmless diminutive flying mammal. You will want to be in wildshape for the second half of your PFS career.
And you will not summon bats more than once for kicks. There is only one bat and it's not one of the stand out summons. If you're not in this for totem transformation and the night domain you're wasting your time and should run another (or no) archetype. If you did summon anything it would, indeed, attack whatever was closest with no input from you.
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Tom S 820 |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/ghoul_PATH.jpg)
If was me I would Shoanti Tattoo or Heirloom Weapon (Proficiency-Longbow) one or the other but not booth.
I like Shoanti Tattoo for the Range attack weapon and the Big Freken Hammer( realy just so I can say "I hit with Big Freken Hammer!"lolol).
Heirloom Weapon weapon strength now come in the fact it +1 with and AoO and +2 on CMB roll. So I would chose a Weapon that give either reach and/or plus to CMB rolls as well.
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![]() |
![Fiendish Halfling](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9423-FiendHalfling_90.jpeg)
If you want something off the wall Go Halfling Monk 1, Bat Shaman 6. Go for at least an 18 starting Dex (16 before racial) and grab weapon finesse, piranha strike, risky striker and natural spell by 7. (Array something like 10/18/14/12/14/9) At level 7 turn into a dimunitive bat and flurry for +14/+14 for 1d2+16 damage while flying around with a +29 stealth score and dropping spells when you don't feel like going into melee. Enjoy that AC of 24 before any gear or spells too. The size/dex bonus from size will easily overcome the penalties for not having precise shot with your produce flame shooting bat.
Don't forget to ride around on your dire bat pet at level 1.
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Vazt |
![Zon-Kuthon](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PriestZonKuthon_final.jpg)
Focusing too much on ranged combat with this character seems like a mistake, unless I am not seeing something. Your free blind-fighting feat is for melee so it seems like you would want to be anti-range/caster focused. Use obscuring mist to shut down anyone not involved in the main melee (keeping it away from your melee folks). Then, you swoop in and maul them with your concealment advantage. You are the scout of the group. Aware of hidden enemies through blindsense and hidden through the night domain. I would play to those strengths rather than staying away from the melee.
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morrissoftxp |
agree, too may odd stats, at most u should have 1 to 2 stats odd so you can make it even at 4th and 8th level. Or if you don't plan to put points into odd stats you should have maybe 1 stat that't odd.
everything else looks good. I would have 10 or less Cha, slightly higher dex and wis and str of 14 or so. if you are using 25 point bye
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drbrain |
Altarlost:"And you will not summon bats more than once for kicks. There is only one bat and it's not one of the stand out summons. "
That's where you're wrong. Bat Shamans can apply certain templates to their summoned bats. At level 5 using SNA 3, I can summon one regular Dire Bat or multiple Young Dire Bats, Giant or Advanced templated Dire Bats starting at level 7 using SNA 4, and Giant Advanced Dire Bats starting at level 9 using SNA 5. And, if I read everything right, I should be able to use, for example, SNA 5 to summon multiple Giant or Advanced Dire Bats.
Admittedly the summons aren't my focus here, but I do get a few options when it comes to the size and strength of summoned bats. plus, they get temporary HP so that's cool.
I'm pretty adamant about archery as my default attack. produce flame is cool, don't get me wrong, and seeing it has convinced me to take Rapid Shot as my 3rd level feat so i can be a gatling gun with either if need be, but the whole point of the bow is that ultimately I can trick it out to be better than firebombing and it's one less "mandatory" spell.
One idea has also convinced me to get Natural Spell at level 7:
-Change into Dire Bat
-Cast Lockjaw on self
-grab Medium or smaller bad guy
-Fly up
-let go
-laugh as bad guy goes splat
-repeat steps 3 through 6 for each applicable enemy as desired
-laugh again
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Tom S 820 |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/ghoul_PATH.jpg)
Grapple
Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.
If that going to be your schick I implore you to take a level of
Barbarian for rage to boost your STR. Also to lower your DEX and Raise your STR because your CMB suck being 3/4 per level +1 for STR. Becasue that cool idea but you build dose not suport that tacit well.
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drbrain |
Grapple
Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.
If that going to be your schick I implore you to take a level of
Barbarian for rage to boost your STR. Also to lower your DEX and Raise your STR because your CMB suck being 3/4 per level +1 for STR. Becasue that cool idea but you build dose not suport that tacit well.
Well it's not going to be my signature move or anything, and they don't get the grapple break attempt until the end of my movement, if I read that correctly. They are welcome to force me to let go when they're already 10-20 feet off the ground hahaha.
On another note, I'll be posting a revised level 1 build and plans for the future later today.
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Tom S 820 |
![Ghoul](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/ghoul_PATH.jpg)
It before you put them in the hazardous loction so before your movement.
Also you if you are moving them up while grappeled you have to worry about your Carrying Capacity to lift them off the ground. Again higher STR.
Not only can you fly up you can drop them on some one as well! :)
Take out 2 foes with one attack.
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drbrain |
NEW LEVEL 1 BUILD!
Human Druid (Bat Shaman)
STR: 14
DEX: 17
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 14
CHA: 9
Faction: Andoran
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Blind Fight
Traits: Shoanti Tattoo, Hunter's Eye (Longbow)
Weapons:
Longbow
Club
Scimitar
Shoanti Bolas
Armor:
Leather Armor
Future Plans:
My first Prestige purchase will probably be a 2 STR masterwork composite longbow, and I might use my gold to pick up a better scimitar if I can swing it. First big magic item purchase is probably going to be an Efficient Quiver.
As for feats, you've convinced me to take Rapid Shot at level 3. I was originally going to buff my INT and take Focused Shot, but I guess I'll have to save that for an Arcane Archer someday :)
Level 7, I'll probably take Natural Spell, but idk what I'll want at level 5.
Any suggestions for my level 5 feat or future magic items?
Oh, also, I've been debating on whether I should buy a shield for when I have to get in melee. Anyone got any thoughts on that?
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drbrain |
Dump the charisma harder. You were raised by bats.
lol I wasn't raised by bats necessarily, I just like them better than people :3
I guess since he's from the spooky night hunter barbarian tribe, I could get away with a little less CHA. I'm just the kind of guy that hates dumping stats that hard I suppose. I'll see what it'd get me and go from there. I'll probably dump it to 7 and buff either WIS or STR. That'll give me two stats to put my ability boosts into later. Since I'm focusing more on control spells, and since my domain gives me stuff like Sleep and Blindness, probably WIS for the boost to spell DCs later. If I go STR, I'll probably slap Adaptive on the composite bow when I can.
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Atarlost |
Altarlost:"And you will not summon bats more than once for kicks. There is only one bat and it's not one of the stand out summons. "
That's where you're wrong. Bat Shamans can apply certain templates to their summoned bats. At level 5 using SNA 3, I can summon one regular Dire Bat or multiple Young Dire Bats, Giant or Advanced templated Dire Bats starting at level 7 using SNA 4, and Giant Advanced Dire Bats starting at level 9 using SNA 5. And, if I read everything right, I should be able to use, for example, SNA 5 to summon multiple Giant or Advanced Dire Bats.
That doesn't make them good summons. It will always be weaker than ground based summons and most uses that take advantage of flight also require handle animal, which you can't afford the stats for. A summoning druid just requires a different build. And a different totem because you've chosen a strong contender for the worst summoning totem with only one creature on the list.
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drbrain |
Like I said, I don't intend to focus on summoning anyway. I'm the ranged/control guy in a party that's already got enough stab and smash.
However, the invisibility power combined with the ability to summon bats as a standard action instead of a full round (remember, summoning doesn't break invisibility) will, I suspect, lead to more than a few very surprised rooms of bad guys in my future :3