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Of course, this only mostly works, since the LoH is a swift action, as is retrieving the weapon. She can then only get a standard action attack.
How is she limited to a Standard attack?
Round 1: Full attack, drop the sword, lay on hands.
Round 2: Retrieve the sword, make full attack.
Round 3: ???
Round 4: Profit.
Unless you're saying she can use a move action to retrieve the sword (a swift). Although I'd allow a move action to retrieve the sword (as that's the normal type of action for that... er... action) you can't normally take two swift actions in a round.
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Couldn't he have coughed up for a haversack? Seriously? My SO's paladin uses the weapon cord to pull some LoH tech off since she runs sword and board. Other than that, I don't like the weapon cord conceptually.
Is there some requirement outside the CRB that says you have to have an empty hand to use Lay on Hands? [Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch]
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Meridian Belt is the item. I'm unaware of any such feat.Correct, there is a feat or item that allows you to wear rings on your toes, ergo it is not allowed without the feat. But I think we all get the gist of your message without needing that example.What feat is that?
Actually the belt allow you to wear 4 rings at the same time while having 2 of them active.
The normal rule say that you can wear 2 magic rings, nothing about where you are wearing them.Meridian Belt
Price 1,000 gp; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Weight 1 lb.
This narrow cloth belt has a silver buckle in the shape of four rings. The belt allows a creature to wear a magic ring on each foot in addition to the ring on each hand, though only two rings function at any given time. As a swift action, the wearer can change which of his rings are active (both hands, both feet, left hand and right foot, and so on). For example, a creature could wear a ring of protection, ring of energy resistance, ring of swimming, and ring of counterspells, switching between any two of them as a swift action each round as it desires.
A single magic ring in each was the rule in earlier edition, but I don't see that text in Pathfinder. I suspect that people are applying it out of habit.
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Lay On Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 her paladin level plus her Charisma modifier. With one use of this ability, a paladin can heal 1d6 hit points of damage for every two paladin levels she possesses. Using this ability is a standard action, unless the paladin targets herself, in which case it is a swift action. Despite the name of this ability, a paladin only needs one free hand to use this ability.
Before people question whether something really works the way somebody says it works, I wish they'd actually look up the ability (I know, I've been at fault for making assumptions from time to time too... but...)
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Meridian Belt is the item. I'm unaware of any such feat.Correct, there is a feat or item that allows you to wear rings on your toes, ergo it is not allowed without the feat. But I think we all get the gist of your message without needing that example.What feat is that?
Actually the belt allow you to wear 4 rings at the same time while having 2 of them active.
The normal rule say that you can wear 2 magic rings, nothing about where you are wearing them.Meridian Belt
Price 1,000 gp; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Weight 1 lb.
This narrow cloth belt has a silver buckle in the shape of four rings. The belt allows a creature to wear a magic ring on each foot in addition to the ring on each hand, though only two rings function at any given time. As a swift action, the wearer can change which of his rings are active (both hands, both feet, left hand and right foot, and so on). For example, a creature could wear a ring of protection, ring of energy resistance, ring of swimming, and ring of counterspells, switching between any two of them as a swift action each round as it desires.
A single magic ring in each was the rule in earlier edition, but I don't see that text in Pathfinder. I suspect that people are applying it out of habit.
How does this disprove my permissive vs non-permissive ideas? It seems to me that it directly plays to them.
I guess if you want to wear rings on your toes instead of your fingers, you can do that; it's amusing. But when I said I suspected that I lacked the articulation to say what I wanted to say correctly, I wasn't being facetious. I was fully expecting someone to find some loophole in what I said and work their way into it. You found the toe-hole. (-:
Anyway, if I were to tell my past self to be more articulate with the ring example, I guess I'd have to go for game mechanics words instead of anatomy, and leave toes and fingers out of it.
The game permits you two wear up to two magical rings at a time to make use of their magical effects. Unless you find something that specifically permits you to do otherwise (this belt, or the rumored-but-not-confirmed feat), you are restricted by this rule. Permissive vs non-permissive in action.
The normal rule say that you can wear 2 magic rings, nothing about where you are wearing them.
I know where I'm wearing MY rings!
...on my fingers. What?
-j
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I actually spent the last 10 minutes perusing the FAQ to see if that was true. Thought I recalled somewhere that the paladin didn't need a hand free. Suppose it would have been quicker to just grab the CRB that's sitting right next to me...
I think people get that confused with Channel Energy. I have had GMs tell me I need a free hand to grab my Holy Symbol to present it, but that is not actually the rule.
A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.
That is the only rule on what is required. Nowhere does it state I need to do that with my hands. I can have my holy symbol out on my chest in view of everyone which would qualify in fulfilling that. I have had that discussion with a few GMs.
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I actually spent the last 10 minutes perusing the FAQ to see if that was true. Thought I recalled somewhere that the paladin didn't need a hand free. Suppose it would have been quicker to just grab the CRB that's sitting right next to me...I think people get that confused with Channel Energy. I have had GMs tell me I need a free hand to grab my Holy Symbol to present it, but that is not actually the rule.
A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.That is the only rule on what is required. Nowhere does it state I need to do that with my hands. I can have my holy symbol out on my chest in view of everyone which would qualify in fulfilling that. I have had that discussion with a few GMs.
So you puff your chest out everytime you channel?
The word "present" requires you to actually... you know... present it.
On your chest is not presenting. Visible is not presenting.
Do you have to use your hand? Not necessarily. If you have it on your shield, you could present your shield.
But typically, you'd need a hand free to... you know... present it.
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Andrew it does not state you need a free hand to present it, therefore you do not need a free hand. You are adding extra rules that are not there. If it needed a free hand the ability would state it.
And yeah Presenting my Holy symbol can be just me spreading my arms puffing out my chest so it is in the view of everyone. I can tie my Holy symbol to my Forehead and that would be presenting it.
Presenting pretty much means to bring it to the attention of those around you, that can be done in many ways that do not require a free hand.
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Andrew it does not state you need a free hand to present it, therefore you do not need a free hand. You are adding extra rules that are not there. If it needed a free hand the ability would state it.
And yeah Presenting my Holy symbol can be just me spreading my arms puffing out my chest so it is in the view of everyone. I can tie my Holy symbol to my Forehead and that would be presenting it.
Presenting pretty much means to bring it to the attention of those around you, that can be done in many ways that do not require a free hand.
I agree with you in principle. However, the player needs to specifically think about how they are presenting it. If its generic, as a GM, I'm going to assume its with their hand, and will adjudicate accordingly.
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Of course, this only mostly works, since the LoH is a swift action, as is retrieving the weapon. She can then only get a standard action attack.How is she limited to a Standard attack?
Round 1: Full attack, drop the sword, lay on hands.
Round 2: Retrieve the sword, make full attack.
Round 3: ???
Round 4: Profit.Unless you're saying she can use a move action to retrieve the sword (a swift). Although I'd allow a move action to retrieve the sword (as that's the normal type of action for that... er... action) you can't normally take two swift actions in a round.
Round 1: Drop sword (free), LoH (Swift), Retrieve (now a move, since swift is gone), Attack (Standard)
Rinse, repeat. Very useful if you need to LoH every round.
With a light shield or buckler:
Put sword in shield hand (free), LoH (Swift), Sword to sword hand (free), Full attack.
Rinse, repeat... better if you have iterative attacks, worse on AC by 1.
I see what you are saying, M.L., but I'd prefer to threaten if at all possible. Also, I leave open the possibility that my interpretation above is wrong, so...
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Doesn't the birthmark trait allow the character to channel energy?
If a cleric were in her home temple, and there was a massive holy symbol of her deity hangong over the altar, would that environment suffice for "presenting a holy symbol"?
I think people get that confused with Channel Energy. I have had GMs tell me I need a free hand to grab my Holy Symbol to present it, but that is not actually the rule.
A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.That is the only rule on what is required. Nowhere does it state I need to do that with my hands. I can have my holy symbol out on my chest in view of everyone which would qualify in fulfilling that. I have had that discussion with a few GMs.So you puff your chest out everytime you channel?
The word "present" requires you to actually... you know... present it.
On your chest is not presenting. Visible is not presenting.
Do you have to use your hand? Not necessarily. If you have it on your shield, you could present your shield.
But typically, you'd need a hand free to... you know... present it.
Eh, definately arguable. "Presenting your holy symbol" is a lot older in concept than any roleplaying game. You see examples in fiction of holy symbols mounted on breastplates and shields, even on weapons. And yes, sometimes hanging from a chain. Heck, in a certain other company's setting, one of their war gods has an armored gauntlet as a holy symbol - I remember a player brandishing the gauntlet to turn undead, weapon still gripped in hand, with the middle finger extended.
I could certainly see a chest mounted holy symbol being "presented" as if it were some chest mounted cannon being fired.
Expect table variation, I think.
-k
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My Paladin coughed up for an animated shield to get around that pesky problem. But also does have a weapon cord on his weapon to be safe.
Hmm... Animated Shield... ~9175gp to get +3 AC for 4 rounds... I wonder if that'd be worth if. Well, maybe once I have more than 2300gp to spend... and the Fame to pull it off.
It ain't easy being a 4th level Paladin!
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I agree with you in principle. However, the player needs to specifically think about how they are presenting it. If its generic, as a GM, I'm going to assume its with their hand, and will adjudicate accordingly.Andrew it does not state you need a free hand to present it, therefore you do not need a free hand. You are adding extra rules that are not there. If it needed a free hand the ability would state it.
And yeah Presenting my Holy symbol can be just me spreading my arms puffing out my chest so it is in the view of everyone. I can tie my Holy symbol to my Forehead and that would be presenting it.
Presenting pretty much means to bring it to the attention of those around you, that can be done in many ways that do not require a free hand.
My cleric has a holy symbol on his armor. It's always presented :)
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"Present" as a verb has the meaning to "display or show off."
So wearing it around your neck is presenting it. Holding it forth is presenting it. In both cases, the symbol is displayed.
Concealing it when you're playing Heresy of Man, pt. 1 is not presenting it.
Whenever a cleric channels in a game, if I care to use that information in someway, I ask where his holy symbol is. As long as it is somewhere mechanically visible (meaning it's also in a place I can steal, we don't have a problem.
I'd also like to say that this is a role playing game and you should go full monty and say "the power of _____ compels you!" (or something similar) but there is no requirement to do so.
The conjunction of the words "full monty" and discussion on holy symbol locations conjures images of thong mounted holy symbols.
We just need quick-breakaway pants and we could have clerics of Chippendale.
:)
-j
As long as it is somewhere mechanically visible (meaning it's also in a place I can steal, we don't have a problem.
Unless of course it's on the armor.
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There is nothing within the rules that indicate you can paint or permanently affix your holy symbol onto anything else.
In a home game, I'd have no problem letting a cleric get their armor specifically designed with an embossed holy symbol.
In PFS, you can't do it, because it isn't RAW. When it effects mechanics, it no longer is fluff.
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To expand on Andrew's point, the game already includes ways to achieve it legally.
There is the Sacred Tattoo trait.
There is the cassock of the clergy magical items (And a myriad of others that serve as holy symbols).
Just saying "hey I got this 5cp mug, it totally counts as my holy symbol of cayden" is not kosher.
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There is nothing within the rules that indicate you can paint or permanently affix your holy symbol onto anything else.
In a home game, I'd have no problem letting a cleric get their armor specifically designed with an embossed holy symbol.
In PFS, you can't do it, because it isn't RAW. When it effects mechanics, it no longer is fluff.
You can sanctify a shield for 100gp or a consecrate a weapon for 150gp...as long as you have the Adventurer's Armory anyways. Then the shield/weapon can be used as a holy symbol, among other things.
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You can sanctify a shield for 100gp or a consecrate a weapon for 150gp...as long as you have the Adventurer's Armory anyways. Then the shield/weapon can be used as a holy symbol, among other things.There is nothing within the rules that indicate you can paint or permanently affix your holy symbol onto anything else.
In a home game, I'd have no problem letting a cleric get their armor specifically designed with an embossed holy symbol.
In PFS, you can't do it, because it isn't RAW. When it effects mechanics, it no longer is fluff.
Haha! Another use for the AA :) Since I'm making my cleric's hammer holy anyway, I might as well get it consecrated as well. The Hammer of Torag indeed.
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You can sanctify a shield for 100gp or a consecrate a weapon for 150gp...as long as you have the Adventurer's Armory anyways. Then the shield/weapon can be used as a holy symbol, among other things.
I think what Andrew is saying is you NEED to have obtained one of this options, not just say your cleric of desna painted a butterfly on his breastplate .
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Haha! Another use for the AA :) Since I'm making my cleric's hammer holy anyway, I might as well get it consecrated as well. The Hammer of Torag indeed.You can sanctify a shield for 100gp or a consecrate a weapon for 150gp...as long as you have the Adventurer's Armory anyways. Then the shield/weapon can be used as a holy symbol, among other things.There is nothing within the rules that indicate you can paint or permanently affix your holy symbol onto anything else.
In a home game, I'd have no problem letting a cleric get their armor specifically designed with an embossed holy symbol.
In PFS, you can't do it, because it isn't RAW. When it effects mechanics, it no longer is fluff.
My cleric of Sarenrae has had a consecrated sword since he was able to afford it...several years ago now. It's a nice ability IMO.
so Sovereign Glue is illegal?There is nothing within the rules that indicate you can paint or permanently affix your holy symbol onto anything else.
In a home game, I'd have no problem letting a cleric get their armor specifically designed with an embossed holy symbol.
In PFS, you can't do it, because it isn't RAW. When it effects mechanics, it no longer is fluff.
Heh, that's exactly what I was thinking as well.
But then I could see GMs arguing you are defacing your holy symbol by putting a potentially destructive magic item on it. Definitely table variation on that.
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You can sanctify a shield for 100gp or a consecrate a weapon for 150gp...as long as you have the Adventurer's Armory anyways. Then the shield/weapon can be used as a holy symbol, among other things.I think what Andrew is saying is you NEED to have obtained one of this options, not just say your cleric of desna painted a butterfly on his breastplate .
Possibly...or he was unaware of the option. I just wanted to let those that might not know (like David it appears), that it could be done legally with an appropriate purchase.
My cleric of Sarenrae has had a consecrated sword since he was able to afford it...several years ago now. It's a nice ability IMO.
I actually like that idea and may do it with my Paladin that I am creating.
What is the cost involved in having a consecrated weapon?
It's a flat 150gp, plus the AA.My cleric of Sarenrae has had a consecrated sword since he was able to afford it...several years ago now. It's a nice ability IMO.I actually like that idea and may do it with my Paladin that I am creating.
What is the cost involved in having a consecrated weapon?
Ok, thank you. And already own AA.
]
Oh you can steal that. You just have to kill the PC first ;)
Heh, yeah, that will always work. :)
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You can sanctify a shield for 100gp or a consecrate a weapon for 150gp...as long as you have the Adventurer's Armory anyways. Then the shield/weapon can be used as a holy symbol, among other things.There is nothing within the rules that indicate you can paint or permanently affix your holy symbol onto anything else.
In a home game, I'd have no problem letting a cleric get their armor specifically designed with an embossed holy symbol.
In PFS, you can't do it, because it isn't RAW. When it effects mechanics, it no longer is fluff.
Fair enough. But that's much more expensive than buying a holy symbol and just saying, "Its painted on my armor."