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Can you declare war on the party and sunder the players items, weapons, and armor with out breaking PFS protocol? This used to be frowned upon on the message board here and I am hearing plenty of stories of sundering items at Gen Con by friends that went there.
Speaking of sundering items, can a player destroy items that the opponents use and still get them after the game. Thinking of the sunder feat and the shatter spell and the like.
Over coming the encounter and getting the items was a rule that has been taken out. If one of the monsters teleports away with some of the unique magic items in the adventure then, no one gets anything that creature had. That has happened to me.
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Wow, it used to be frowned upon. They have changed the rule where you don't need a magical weapon to destroy another magical weapon. A giant with his large sized great axe or sword can now destroy any magical weapon no matter how magical it is. Maul of the Titans has gotten stronger.
Where does it say in the guide that you get the items on the chronicle sheet whether you destroyed the stuff or not? If you don't mind, page and paragraph for heading off any arguments in the future. I appreciate it.
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Wow, it used to be frowned upon. They have changed the rule where you don't need a magical weapon to destroy another magical weapon. A giant with his large sized great axe or sword can now destroy any magical weapon no matter how magical it is. Maul of the Titans has gotten stronger.
Where does it say in the guide that you get the items on the chronicle sheet whether you destroyed the stuff or not? If you don't mind, page and paragraph for heading off any arguments in the future. I appreciate it.
First, you should stay within the guidelines of the normal tactics given to the NPC by the author/editor, so sunder won't be the first place the NPC should go, unless that is written into their tactics. Also remember that the NPC, unless they have the Improved Sunder feat, will provoke an AoO from their target, and that any damage done inn that AoO also gets added to the target's CMD vs the sunder attack.
Second, it is on page 21 in the current, 5.0, version of the guide, right-hand column, the section starting with the word Note:, in the 3rd paragraph, and the second half of the following paragraph:
Note: You may use any item that you find during the scenario for free until the end of the scenario, but you must purchase the item when the scenario is over in order for your character to be able to continue to use the item. This rule is most applicable to consumables such as potions, scrolls, and so on, but also applies to weapons, magic items, and so on.
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If during a scenario you find the +1 frost longsword from the example above and decide to use it until the end of the adventure, but then you get disarmed or it gets sundered, you are still able to buy that item off the Chronicle sheet at the end of the scenario.
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Hopefully, if they sundered actual PC equipment, the GM remembered that Mike Brock said that all the PC needs to do is pay for the Make Whole casting to get it fixed.
I believe Mike said they could simply pay for the repair. There are rules for that when the caster level for Make Whole is over 20. The book says paying half the cost of the item will repair it.
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Can you declare war on the party and sunder the players items, weapons, and armor with out breaking PFS protocol? This used to be frowned upon on the message board here and I am hearing plenty of stories of sundering items at Gen Con by friends that went there.
You're supposed to run the tactics as written, so not unless the scenario tells you to.
Speaking of sundering items, can a player destroy items that the opponents use and still get them after the game. Thinking of the sunder feat and the shatter spell and the like.
Yes. Its one of the reasons that sunder is a better idea in pfs than most games.
Over coming the encounter and getting the items was a rule that has been taken out.
If, for example,
your players manage to roleplay theirway through a combat and successfully
accomplish the goal of that encounter
without killing the antagonist, give the
PCs the same reward they would have
gained had they defeated their opponent in
combat.
I think its still there.
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I've heard some stories of disintegrate targeted at a weapon rather than a person. Basically, the way I would look at it is this:
- does the enemy have any feats that make sundering a good tactic?
- is the enemy's weapon made out of adamantine?
- does the enemy have any spells or spell-like abilities that would target weapons?
- does the enemy have tactics that indicate it would be a good idea?
If the answer to any of those questions is 'yes', then there's one more question to ask:
- would the enemy be okay with destroying a piece of loot?
If yes, then I feel fine sundering. If no, then I can still sunder down to 1 hp, or go with something like disarm instead. Weapon cord users beware though: you don't get disarmed. :)
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Zarconww
A lot of people complained that a lot of stuff that was on the chronicle sheet was stuff you could already buy at that level given a reasonable amount of fame (mithril chain shirt, for example, which is an always available item) so maybe they are finally listening and not including that stuff.
You don't get to add your heal skill to hit / damage, you don't get to add your craft weapons to sunder. Not unless you can find a feat or archetype that does it.
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Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
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Special material items and ammo, as well as +1 weapons and armor, are largely "Always Available" and thus will not appear on a chronicle. Never have. The only special material that's an exception is dragonhide.
Spellbooks and formula books have never been on a chronicle, just like a witch's familiar isn't. If you find one and can copy spells from it your GM will have to tell you at the table, probably at the end of the scenario, what spells were in it, watch you make your Spellcraft checks (assuming that Take 10 won't be good enough, which for most casters it should be), and record the total copying expense on your chronicle. Just like any other looted item, you can't simply keep the book, it has to get turned in to the Society.
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Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
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A lot of people complained that a lot of stuff that was on the chronicle sheet was stuff you could already buy at that level given a reasonable amount of fame (mithril chain shirt, for example, which is an always available item) so maybe they are finally listening and not including that stuff.
Incorrect assessment. For example, on tier 7-11 scenarios a Cloak of Resistance +1 has always been and will continue to be listed on chronicles. A Ring of Protection +1 is another example. Yes, by that point a character should have the Fame to not require it to be on a chronicle, but since it's a Wondrous Item (or ring) it isn't in the Always Available category. At what point do you cut off things that aren't Always Available and don't bother listing them? You don't. If a magic item or dragonhide can be looted from a scenario it will be listed on the chronicle unless it's Always Available. The cutoff point for one character will be very different than for another and you cannot make any Fame assumptions. This policy is consistently followed in all PFS scenarios and modules, and I don't see any reason to change it. If you don't want it on your chronicle you can just line it out yourself.
The one big improvement that's been made lately is listing more "special" items like partially-charged or higher CL wands, intelligent magic items, etc., things you can never get otherwise regardless of your Fame. However, these are in addition to all the other items normally listed on a chronicle, not in lieu of.
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Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
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Hmmm, lots of +1 mithral shirts on chronicles, and other examples of always available items. I don't have my sheets with me to see if this has been "fixed" in year 5, but I know earlier years listed always available items, which seemed redundant. I've seen +1 rings as well I know.
Are you sure about that? I just went through every scenario's chronicle sheet from Seasons 0-3 (not including retired scenarios) and I found exactly four times that an Always Available item was listed. Three of those times were in Season 0, when mithral armor might not have been listed as Always Available yet. I'm not sure, I didn't start playing PFS until Season 1. The fourth time was probably an oversight in Season 1, and nothing since then.
+1 mithral shirt in #0-13
mithral shirt and +1 mithral shirt (different tiers) in #0-17
+1 mithral chain shirt in #1-35
I think people see the +1 for certain cloaks, rings, and amulets and forget that rings and wondrous items are never Always Available...
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Has anyone thought of using shatterspike with improved sunder for characters lvl 4-5?Would it work? Or do I not fully understand sundering....
Shatterspike is a +1 long sword but when sundering it is a +4 long sword.
Also can you sunder monks because they count as weapons?
As in "when sundering it would be +3 more Sunder"? Sure.
Can't Sunder unarmed strike and if you could it would have infinite hitpoints and never break.
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Thank you for clearing that up, if I had 18+ fame I understand what your saying but I don't so I was trying to come up with a lower lvl strategy for damaging enemy weapons so they have the broken condition causing less damage (or less uses for magic items like staffs or wands) or are just destroyed.
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Thank you for clearing that up, if I had 18+ fame I understand what your saying but I don't so I was trying to come up with a lower lvl strategy for damaging enemy weapons so they have the broken condition causing less damage (or less uses for magic items like staffs or wands) or are just destroyed.
You can buy adamantine weapons without fame restrictions, and the rule about requiring a higher enhancement bonus on your weapon to affect an enchanted weapon got silently removed a few printings ago (of the CRB). It's still going to be the biggest bang for your buck for sundering IMO.
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the rule about requiring a higher enhancement bonus on your weapon to affect an enchanted weapon got silently removed a few printings ago (of the CRB).
That rule was originally why I decided to make a sundering Magus, since they can effectively enchant their weapon above a +5.
I only learned earlier this year that rule had disappeared, and I still encounter people who believe it is still the case.
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So if it's adamantine it does auto damage to weapons and such?
Normally, when you sunder, whatever damage you roll gets lowered by the hardness of the item you are trying to sunder. If your weapon is Adamantine, you can ignore any hardness ratings less than 20.
So, steel normally has a hardness of 10, Mithral 15, wood 5, stone and silver 8, and so on. That means an Adamantine item being sundered by an Adamantine weapon still has its hardness of 20 subtracted from your damage.
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But is it more effective than a shatterspikeUnless you're having trouble rolling a high enough sunder check in the first place, or are sundering something with hardness 2 or less, then yes, adamantine is better than shatterspike.
Or the item has a hardness of 20 or higher, in which case the +4 bonus from Shatterspike would make the chance of damage better...however all of these are corner cases usually (except maybe not being able to make the attack roll to start...)
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My dice hate me and I have a low lvl character so knowing this what would you choose?
If I wanted to sunder, I'd go admantine. At least later on you can increase the enhancement to make up any possible difference.
Shatterspike, as a named weapon, can not be upgraded and is always going to be a +1 longsword, except when sundering.
He means it is a specific weapon in the list. It is not just an enhancement you can add to any weapon.
For example the shocking burst property is not a specific weapon. It is an enhancement that I can add to any +1 or better magic weapon.
The shatterspike is a specific weapon. So in PFS you can't make say, an +3 adamantine shatter spike.
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Hopefully, if they sundered actual PC equipment, the GM remembered that Mike Brock said that all the PC needs to do is pay for the Make Whole casting to get it fixed.I believe Mike said they could simply pay for the repair. There are rules for that when the caster level for Make Whole is over 20. The book says paying half the cost of the item will repair it.
I specifically asked Mike about the make whole ruling here.
As you can see, you can repair any item with make whole, regardless of the needed caster level.
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I am missing what is the ruling, can you elaborate your reply?The biggest problems, from what I get is:
1) it is possible to repair an item with make whole if that require a caster above level 20?
2) We can hand wave who did the work, but we can find someone capable to do that "on the field" in the first hamlet we find or we should do that between missions?
1) Yes
2) No, it should be done between missions.