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So if it's adamantine it does auto damage to weapons and such?Normally, when you sunder, whatever damage you roll gets lowered by the hardness of the item you are trying to sunder. If your weapon is Adamantine, you can ignore any hardness ratings less than 20.
So, steel normally has a hardness of 10, Mithral 15, wood 5, stone and silver 8, and so on. That means an Adamantine item being sundered by an Adamantine weapon still has its hardness of 20 subtracted from your damage.
Keeping in mind that it's still up in the air whether an adamantine weapon gets the chart's hardness or adamantine's hardness.
:(
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No. No it is not.Keeping in mind that it's still up in the air whether an adamantine weapon gets the chart's hardness or adamantine's hardness.
:(
I would compeltely agree with Big norse wolf, but some DMs do not refer to all the charts when looking at an items hardness. Then use the omission off of one chart but included in another chart they are required by RAW to review as definintion to make a ruling.
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27 FAQs later and it's still pretty inconclusive.No. No it is not.Keeping in mind that it's still up in the air whether an adamantine weapon gets the chart's hardness or adamantine's hardness.
:(
Hence why I said "Adamantine item", and not "Adamantine weapon".
The rules really are still up in the air whether you use the chart, the text, or some combination thereof.
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Also, for anyone reading this and wanting to contribute, here is the question we're looking to have answered.
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27 FAQs later and it's still pretty inconclusive.No. No it is not.Keeping in mind that it's still up in the air whether an adamantine weapon gets the chart's hardness or adamantine's hardness.
:(
The response was *headdesk*
I don't think you can get a response of *headdesk* if the rules are that convoluted and contradictory to common sense.
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As you've stated before, different sides will interpret *headdesk* differently.
This is why I utterly loathe when the staff response is "no reply necessary". It seriously makes my blood pressure go through the roof.
Right, But which of these do you think is worthy of a headdesk?
Yes Virginia, your adamantite mace is just as hard as adamantite.
Yes virginia, because the item appears a chart as a common weapon, even non standard versions of those weapons must maintain the same hardness.
While the second answer would not be completely outside the preview of some of the rules wackiness, it would in no way, shape, or form rise to the level of *headdesk*
The first one would though.
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Look again at the question we've posed for FAQ.
I am recieving information that weapons made of Adamantine have normal hardness. The logic is that the "Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points" chart does not include something for weapons but does for armor. So special mat weapons are steel hardness.
Thats the OP in that topic. So yes, some people are disputing the mace.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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It is not inconclusive so much as people stubbornly using omission to make a ruling.
IE the rules do not say I can not flap my arm to fly thus I can
Yes they do.
under character creation. Based on your race, you are given a set of speeds. For most races, this is X Land. (Some monster races get burrow, or swim or fly in addition or instead of.) Then, some skills might give you additional speeds (such as swim or climb.) Magical items or spells can give you more. You can use any movement speed you posses to move. You cannot use movement speeds you do not posses.
You (assuming you are not a winged race) do not have a Fly speed, so no you cannot flap your arms and fly.
Please don't make up silly gaps in the rules to try to claim other people's arguments are silly.
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We finally have an FAQ about the adamantine issue! :)
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2n9&page=3?Adamantine-weapon-hardness#107
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I'm super thrilled they finally got around to it. Now we just need to find out how to make weapons out of multiple materials, whether or not a Dwarven Waraxe can be all metal, and how to price out a Klar.
Multiple materials: no, albeit not very logical. Eligible swaps are based upon primary material of construction. This may not be spelled out universally for all materials, leaving loopholes/exploits.
All metal: no. Same reason.
Klar: no clue.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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From the example posted,
For a weapon that isn't entirely made of the same material (such as a wooden-hafted weapon with a metal head), if that material isn't the standard material for that weapon, use the hardness from Table 7–13 for the weakest material in the weapon instead of the default hardness on Table 7–12. For example, an ice-hafted (hardness 0) steel-headed (hardness 10) battleaxe has hardness 0 overall because it is only as strong as its weakest part. Likewise, an ice-hafted adamantine-headed battleaxe has hardness 0, just like its ice counterpart. ("Use the weakest material" is a relative term, as a battleaxe probably includes a small amount of leather, but its primary materials are wood and steel, so wood is its weakest material.)
I take that wood hafted weapons (and presumably Klars) have *two* primary materials. Replacing the haft primary material affects weapon hardness, replacing the head primary material affects damage.
given that, I don't see why you couldn't pay both upgrade costs and upgrade both. (sadly, there is no upgrade cost for ironwood.) So you could have a mithral / whipwood halberd.
Won't get you more hardness, but would get you +5 hp and +2 CMD vs sunder.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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That comes down to the question of:
"is the waraxe wood hafted or steel hafted."
If it is steel hafted, then yeah, just make it all one thing for 3K. If it is wood hafted, you cannot swap out wood for metal. (Except Ironwood, which as far as I can tell is not PFS legal.)
For one thing it would completely throw the balance off.
So, what we need is a list of which weapons are wood hafted, and which are steel hafted, and then for those that have historically been made in both, we need the cost difference and stat difference for swapping from one to the other.
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It's really just one more thing to FAQ on the rules forum. Each weapon released should have its materials defined explicitly.
However, battleaxes and waraxes are definitely wood hafted. The description of the battleaxe gives it a long wooden handle, and a dwarven waraxe is basically a large battleaxe with a thicker handle.
In Ultimate Equipment, the pictures will frequently show whether a weapon is hafted with wood or metal. As a rule, very few are hafted with metal; some give the choice to the wielder (eg. the light mace).
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it also says the battle axe "The wooden haft may be protected and strengthened with metal bands called langets." So it could potentially have a metal haft.
So I would still argue as above until there is a more definitive ruling. Although I could totaly understand disagreement.
Langets. Having two (or four) strips of metal that protect part of the haft is not the same thing as having a metal haft.
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it also says the battle axe "The wooden haft may be protected and strengthened with metal bands called langets." So it could potentially have a metal haft.
So I would still argue as above until there is a more definitive ruling. Although I could totaly understand disagreement.
Langets. Having two (or four) strips of metal that protect part of the haft is not the same thing as having a metal haft.
Wikipedia is hardly a rule source for pathfinder. If I have to split hairs for the PCs. I will side on their behalf. That is my choice as a DM. If other DMs choose it differently I respect their choice.
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Wikipedia is hardly a rule source for pathfinder. If I have to split hairs for the PCs. I will side on their behalf. That is my choice as a DM. If other DMs choose it differently I respect their choice.it also says the battle axe "The wooden haft may be protected and strengthened with metal bands called langets." So it could potentially have a metal haft.
So I would still argue as above until there is a more definitive ruling. Although I could totaly understand disagreement.
Langets. Having two (or four) strips of metal that protect part of the haft is not the same thing as having a metal haft.
It is not "Wikipedia is a rule source", it is applying the rules. As you pointed out the rules say: "The wooden haft may be protected and strengthened with metal bands called langets."
You have changed them to "The wooden haft may be replaced with metal and I call that langets even if langets are something totally different."It would be more honest to say "in my world the haft are made in metal, even if the rules say that they are made in wood". But this is the PFS forum. You are arguing pro table variation.
You allow a metal haft for the dwarven waraxe, the player go and play with another GM, an enemy try to sunder the waraxe and the the player say "my waraxe haft is made of adamantiun and has hardness 20". Rule argument ensue and all the other players and the GM lose playing time.
Don't seem a good idea.
Spend three grand and make the weapon Imperivous?
Impervious
Price +3,000 gp; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Weight —
An impervious weapon is warded from damage and decay. A metallic weapon cannot rust and a wooden weapon cannot rot or warp, even by magical or supernatural means. An impervious weapon gains double the normal bonus to its hardness and hit points for each point of its enhancement bonus. The break DC for an impervious weapon and the wielder's combat maneuver defense against sunder maneuvers against the impervious weapon each gain a bonus equal to twice the weapon's enhancement bonus.
Construction Requirements
Cost +1,500 gp
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fabricate, make whole
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Spend three grand and make the weapon Impervious?
IIRC, my Magus' +3 Impervious Adamantine Dwarven Waraxe (complete with Fortifying Stone) has a hardness around 37, and 100+ hit points. In combat I often use my Arcane Pool to up that to +5, which pushes the hardness to 45.
But, that's only if you consider it a "metal hafted weapon". If you consider it a "wood hafted weapon", it's hardness suddenly drops by 15.
I haven't met anything yet that's been able to scratch it, but I'm playing in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament in an hour and a half, so perhaps my precautions will come into play.
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Spend three grand and make the weapon Impervious?IIRC, my Magus' +3 Impervious Adamantine Dwarven Waraxe (complete with Fortifying Stone) has a hardness around 37, and 100+ hit points. In combat I often use my Arcane Pool to up that to +5, which pushes the hardness to 45.
But, that's only if you consider it a "metal hafted weapon". If you consider it a "wood hafted weapon", it's hardness suddenly drops by 15.
I haven't met anything yet that's been able to scratch it, but I'm playing in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament in an hour and a half, so perhaps my precautions will come into play.
The important thing is that even with a mean GM like me who would say there are only wooden-hafted dwarven waraxes, you still have enough hardness that adamantine weapons have no advantage over you. So good on you, and I hope your precautions pay off! :)
Keep in mind that without Improved Sunder, those tactics guarantee AOO's from the PC's. And you don't have license to alter NPC feats just so you can indulge a wish to go wholesale destruction on PC items.
It only guarantees AoOs if the PCs in question threaten - which most bow wielders do not. My Bard/Archer seems to draw the majority of Sunder attempts for this very reason.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Just finished the Ruby Phoenix Tournament. Awesome scenario. We had a lot of memorable moments. And without any spoilers I'll say I'm glad I brought a Sunderer =).
I'm currently playing a Sundering Grappling specialist. I'm happy to say I've never played a Scenario I wasn't glad I brought myself. ;-)
There isn't anything like the thrill of stopping a CR 9 encounter in tier 6-7 with one hit on the first round. If they don't have Improved Unarmed Strike or some Improved {CMB} that is useful, when their weapon is gone the fight is over.
Got to give some GM's props. I had one Disarm me (provoking an AoO) to take my weapon from me after I sundered his. I just grappled him the next round.