Oh, and I love the moment in my last campaign where my Tiefling Vanguard (3pp spontaneous Magus basically) betrayed the rest of the party and killed them all. If it wasn't for DM interference, they would have stayed dead. And the moment was scripted with the DM so totally legit.
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And how did the rest of the party feel about that?
I wish there was a Sticky somewhere on the forum that gave a list of the various phrases such as "MAD" and "SAD" and others plus their meaning. I've only really been reading the forums frequently for a few days and it confuses me.
I like making characters with low Int because I find them fun to play.
I love the new Unchained rage mechanics. And the new stance rage powers are awesome.
Just ask away. No harm in asking.
SAD and MAD refer to Single and Multiple Attribute Dependent classes.
Some classes only need a single attribute to function, such as the wizard (intelligence). This is a SAD class. Other classes need several attributes to function, such as the paladin (strength and dex for combat, charisma for abilities). This is a MAD class.
Whenever you see something that you don't know, just ask and others will be happy to explain. :)
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So, um... I apparently have a confession that will get me shunned, because I was shunned for it just today here on these boards:
I am perfectly fine and regularly create characters with a maximum starting ability score (after racial adjustments) of 16 or 17, even with a 25 point buy. I don't feel like I need an 18 or higher at level 1 to make an effective character.
I'm with you. I very rarely go above 16. In my 12 PFS characters I have only once gone as high as 18.
I think of 14, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10 (before racial adjustments) as the perfect stat array.
I've only had two PFS characters. The first had pre-racial stats (highest to lowest) of 17, 16, 13, 12, 7, 7.
My last character had 18, 18, 8, 7, 7, 7.
I hate point buy.
I came to Pathfinder after 15+ years of GURPS. I hate anything that *isn't* point buy.
I came to Pathfinder after 15+ years of GURPS. I hate anything that *isn't* point buy.So, um... I apparently have a confession that will get me shunned, because I was shunned for it just today here on these boards:
I am perfectly fine and regularly create characters with a maximum starting ability score (after racial adjustments) of 16 or 17, even with a 25 point buy. I don't feel like I need an 18 or higher at level 1 to make an effective character.
I'm with you. I very rarely go above 16. In my 12 PFS characters I have only once gone as high as 18.
I think of 14, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10 (before racial adjustments) as the perfect stat array.
I've only had two PFS characters. The first had pre-racial stats (highest to lowest) of 17, 16, 13, 12, 7, 7.
My last character had 18, 18, 8, 7, 7, 7.
I hate point buy.
I also like stat arrays.
And dice are fine for one-off games.
Because grizzled vet is a common and fun trope that they'd like to play? But can't if their games always start at first level.
So why not simply say "I'd like to play a character that is a grizzled vet. I'm thinking starting at level four would work for that. Level one certainly won't."
If the group/GM agrees, you're all set. But if the group doesn't, and wants to start at level one, why try to still force your grizzled vet idea into the game? Come up with something else. Or talk with the GM, perhaps you can play a novice until the group hits level four, then you can retire your character and bring in your level four grizzled vet?
Because grizzled vet is a common and fun trope that they'd like to play? But can't if their games always start at first level.So why not simply say "I'd like to play a character that is a grizzled vet. I'm thinking starting at level four would work for that. Level one certainly won't."
If the group/GM agrees, you're all set. But if the group doesn't, and wants to start at level one, why try to still force your grizzled vet idea into the game? Come up with something else. Or talk with the GM, perhaps you can play a novice until the group hits level four, then you can retire your character and bring in your level four grizzled vet?
Because I'm tired of having to come up with a different character concept than the one I want to play for the sixth campaign in a row, and the group still wants to play starting at first level - primarily because we play APs and those start at 1st level.
I don't see why you can't start as a grizzled vet at first level, most default guards or soldiers or what have you are warriors not PC classes
Because I'm tired of having to come up with a different character concept than the one I want to play for the sixth campaign in a row, and the group still wants to play starting at first level - primarily because we play APs and those start at 1st level.
Maybe you need to find a different group? There seems to be a ton of games forming online at all times of the year. Or take my earlier suggestion and make a temporary character for levels 1-4, and then retire him when the group hits four and let the new guy come in. That seems like a reasonable solution that most GMs would go for.
You could reflect the grizzled vet with skills in tactics, and also explain his low bab as being rusty from lack of practice recently.
Also a trick I sometimes use is to sometimes RP knowledge before I can actually do something, then once I pick some ability up, it is like I had it all along, just never had the chance to use it. For example, my Tanya character was taught how to make Spell Cards, which requires Craft Wondrous, which of course requires level three, so I'm playing her like she already knows, but she won't have the chance to use it till after she hits level three and mechanically gains the feat.
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Because grizzled vet is a common and fun trope that they'd like to play? But can't if their games always start at first level.So why not simply say "I'd like to play a character that is a grizzled vet. I'm thinking starting at level four would work for that. Level one certainly won't."
If the group/GM agrees, you're all set. But if the group doesn't, and wants to start at level one, why try to still force your grizzled vet idea into the game? Come up with something else. Or talk with the GM, perhaps you can play a novice until the group hits level four, then you can retire your character and bring in your level four grizzled vet?
Because starting at level 4 not only allows me to play a grizzled vet (and infinitely more 'experienced' possibilities), but also allows the others to play talented farmboys.
If the want to play un-talented farmboys, then sub-optimal choices will do that just fine.
I don't see why you can't start as a grizzled vet at first level, most default guards or soldiers or what have you are warriors not PC classesBecause grizzled vets, even if they're warriors, aren't first level warriors. And you're not starting as a warrior anyway.
Sure, you can call yourself a grizzled vet if you want. You can also call write in your background that you "cut the One Ring off of Sauron's hand / slam the gate shut on Rovagug's prison / be the vital part of Asmodeus' plan to overthrow Lucifer".
Be that as it may, I definitely helped Asmodeus overthrow Lucifer. Now, I wasn't exactly there, per se. I was his prisoner. And he would talk to me about his plans and I would give pointers and ideas here and there. And it must've worked, because he rules Hell now.
Why did he talk to me and listen to me? I don't rightly know. Maybe he was bored. Maybe I intrigued him. Maybe my ideas were good. But there you have it. Believe it as you will, but I helped Asmodeus overthrow Lucifer.
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And unless you're my parent or spouse, when I say, "Thanks for the input, but I'm fine with my body and my health," I dang well expect the conversation to be dropped. And if you can't, then you probably won't be invited to my shindigs anymore.
Now, let's go get a beer. :)
That works both ways though. If your not going to do anything about your health. I don't want to hear any complaints about how bad your feeling. If one keeps telling me their knees hurt well either put up with the pain in silence. Or expect to be told to lose weight.
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Because starting at level 4 not only allows me to play a grizzled vet (and infinitely more 'experienced' possibilities), but also allows the others to play talented farmboys.
If the want to play un-talented farmboys, then sub-optimal choices will do that just fine.
That's your opinion - why should it be valued higher than the other player's opinions?
Someone else could easily make the case that the character concept they want to play can't be done below level 7 and with incredibly high stats.
The answer should be the same regardless - if the group decides to start at level one, bring a character that is suitable for a level one game or opt out of that game and look for one more to your liking.
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That works both ways though. If your not going to do anything about your health. I don't want to hear any complaints about how bad your feeling. If one keeps telling me their knees hurt well either put up with the pain in silence. Or expect to be told to lose weight.
And unless you're my parent or spouse, when I say, "Thanks for the input, but I'm fine with my body and my health," I dang well expect the conversation to be dropped. And if you can't, then you probably won't be invited to my shindigs anymore.
Now, let's go get a beer. :)
People do that?
Yeah, in that case, I'd be fine with it.
Stop complaining to me about your health problems. If you want to discuss it in an academic sense or in an advice sense, I'm happy to discuss your issues with you, explain why they occur, and give advice for how to fix it.
If you're just complaining for complaining's sake, then either do something about it or shut up. Or be prepared to hear unsolicited advice since you're giving unsolicited complaints.
The only people I'll complain about my health issues to is my wife or my parents. Anyone else, they will only come up if the conversation guides it that way, and it will be explained academically, it won't be a complaint.
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I vastly prefer Spontaneous to Prepared casters.
Confession: I hate the entitled number crunching b*&!!$%~ that seems to have infected D&D related games since 3.0 pulled new people into the game.
Weirdly enough I don't hate them per se.
I hate when they want.to play their way when I am GMing and it is specifically not a Mathfinder situation - to wit, roleplay. I have days where I want to roll dice and hack and slash, but it isn't always the mood.
I prefer the math be brought to bear in esoteric was that make me laugh before I issue forth a FFS and take everything off the rails.
Oh, and I love the moment in my last campaign where my Tiefling Vanguard (3pp spontaneous Magus basically) betrayed the rest of the party and killed them all. If it wasn't for DM interference, they would have stayed dead. And the moment was scripted with the DM so totally legit.
Was it Oked by the rest of the group? This betrays a pretty big RPG social convention, and can get you shunned.
In a 1-20 game [incredibly rare though they may be] your primary stat gets +5 Inherent Bonus from Manuals/Tomes or Wishes. This stacks with the actual increases from levels.
At level 20 your bog standard Wizard has between a 34 and 36 Intelligence, assuming they started with at least an 18. A 17 will never reach 34.
Start with 18, add 5 from levels and 5 from wishes= 28 +6 item= 34
Start with 17, add 5 from levels and 5 from wishes= 27 +6 item= 33How do you get 36??
Yar, it's possible, though given its main benefit don't show up until 20th, perhaps overkill (starting with a bought 18 never seems worth it to me).
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Confession: I'm slowly coming to despise these comments of "Yeah man I hate the people who play Pathfinder. I don't even PLAY Pathfinder."
So stop posting about it.
Also, what the hell do you need a 36 Int for anyway? Wizardly pissing contests?
Gah.
This is part of why I don't play Pathfinder.
Because it's nice to have your spells work against things actually dangerous to you.
So missng a single plus one is going to make your spells not work? Really?Because it's nice to have your spells work against things actually dangerous to you.Also, what the hell do you need a 36 Int for anyway? Wizardly pissing contests?
Gah.
This is part of why I don't play Pathfinder.
A single +1? Certainly not.
A +3 (not having Inherent from Wish/Tomes)? Starts adding up.
Another +3 (not having a +6 Headband because you're not "entitled" to have it)? Yeah, you better hope you specced into buffs and no-save spells.
Oh, and I love the moment in my last campaign where my Tiefling Vanguard (3pp spontaneous Magus basically) betrayed the rest of the party and killed them all. If it wasn't for DM interference, they would have stayed dead. And the moment was scripted with the DM so totally legit.Was it Oked by the rest of the group? This betrays a pretty big RPG social convention, and can get you shunned.
Technically it was a surprise, but I think they knew something like that was happening. My character was an NPC from a previous campaign that was evil but ended up losing his memory. The only thing they didn't like was how easily I was beating them two-on-one, but it was all cool with us.
Confession: I hate the entitled number crunching b*&!!$%~ that seems to have infected D&D related games since 3.0 pulled new people into the game.Weirdly enough I don't hate them per se.
I hate when they want.to play their way when I am GMing and it is specifically not a Mathfinder situation - to wit, roleplay. I have days where I want to roll dice and hack and slash, but it isn't always the mood.
I prefer the math be brought to bear in esoteric was that make me laugh before I issue forth a FFS and take everything off the rails.
No, its not a rollplay/roleplay false dichotomy elitism thing.
Its that I remember when Manuals, wishes, heck, magic items and boons in general were special rewards, not things that you were entitled too like level based stat increases or getting more HP or skill points when you level.
You do not just get +5 to a stat from wishes because you leveled up. You may encounter magic to get you inherent stat boosts, but you and not fsckig entitled to it!
See, to me, it's not a matter of elitism at all - it's a matter of methodology and when it is apt to apply raw math fun versus using other tools in the kit. I try to supply plenty of opportunities for both, but some people, given a hammer, refuse to use anything but a hammer, when a screwdriver or a wrench would be more apt.
Though I am right there with you on the entitlement front.
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Confession: The phrase "martials can't have anything nice" makes me sleepy. It also makes me wonder who has been playing these classes for the last 40 or so years if they suck so bad.
Confession: The phrase "martials can't have anything nice" makes me sleepy. It also makes me wonder who has been playing these classes for the last 40 or so years if they suck so bad.
It still astonishes me after all this time that so many people conflate "This sucks compared to X" with "Nobody uses that".
The iPhone is the most popular smart phone on the market despite being utter s~!$ compared to Android phones or even the Windows phone, lacking features those phones had several years prior, and then adding them with the fanfare you'd expect for a true innovation three years too late.
Popularity and functionality are not the same thing.
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Here's a twofer.
NASCAR is not a sport.
Using the word "we" when talking about your favorite sports team makes you look like an idiot.
Also, I think it's funny that my tablet almost wrote that second one by itself.
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Here's a twofer.
NASCAR is not a sport.
B-b-but muh left turns!
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We are all very proud of the USA women's Soccer team (neener neener neener!)
That's cool, but if you were parading around today saying "We won! We won!" at least give us your jersey number so we can congratulate you properly.