One of the big hooks for Archaeologist is being a psuedo-caster with a load of rogue-like skills, especially Disable Device. This is reinforced from second level onward due to Clever Explorer & Trapfinding. Only one problem: Bards don't get D.D. making these abilities useless, given it's a trained-only skill and all. Is this a misprint, an obscure rule that gives Archaeologists proficiency at 2nd level since they get a Misc bonus at that point, as intended, or some other possibility I'm overlooking?
you can train for / put ranks in any skill, but since it is not a class skill for the Bard you do not get the +3 class skill bonus.
For my archaeologist I got around it with the Vagabond Child trait which also gave me an additional +1 trait bonus........
They are intended to not get DD as a class skill. However, check out the PF rules for skill points. They've changed since 3.5.
Like Deylinarr was saying you can use some Traits to pick up additional class skills.
Seems an odd trade-off in addition to the loss of sneak attack, but RAW is RAW I suppose. Thanks for the clarification and work-arounds.
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3.5 rules did away with the 3.0 restriction on some skills being usable only by one or two classes.
PF goes further, by removing the doubled costs, and restriction on max ranks in cross-class skills.
Anyone can buy ranks in DD and Use Magic Device (which in 3.0, used to be only trainable by Rogues and Bards, if I recall correctly).
So now there's nothing preventing a level 10 Archaelogist having 10 ranks in Disable Device. He simply won't have the one-time +3 class skill bonus.
It's intentional that Archaeologists don't get DD as a class skill. Their version of Trapfinding lets them disarm in half the normal time and they can always take 10 on DD checks. So, ordinarily the check will be 3 less than a Rogue, but the results will be faster and they can take 10.
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Eh, it won't actually be 3 less than the Rogue. They also get a bonus to Disable Device equal to half their Bard level, so they'll match the Rogue at 6, and be better past that. Of course, they can still take a trait to gain it as a class skill and be even better than the Rogue...
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Sneak Attack is unreliable damage. So, no big loss. Bard is just better in all things, compared to the Rogue.
Just like every other class.
You do know that you can put ranks into any skill, at the cost of one skill point?
None of that half a rank crap of 3.5, or any other exclusive bullcrap.
If it's a class skill, it gets a +3 bonus, and that's the whole difference between class skills, and non-class skills.
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You people are all crazy!
The reason they don't get D.D. as a class skill is because they get /every/ skill as a class skill when Jack of All Trades comes rolling in at level 16.
You don't need to go running and trying to get it a class skill. Though you could get it earlier, you'd just be out a trait at later levels.
Eh, it won't actually be 3 less than the Rogue. They also get a bonus to Disable Device equal to half their Bard level, so they'll match the Rogue at 6, and be better past that. Of course, they can still take a trait to gain it as a class skill and be even better than the Rogue...
Rogues add 1/2 their Rogue level to DD checks.
Trapfinding: A rogue adds 1/2 her level to ... Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1).
You people are all crazy!
The reason they don't get D.D. as a class skill is because they get /every/ skill as a class skill when Jack of All Trades comes rolling in at level 16.
You don't need to go running and trying to get it a class skill. Though you could get it earlier, you'd just be out a trait at later levels.
Yeah, but you have to wait until level 16. That's most of your useful adventuring career gone by.
Anyway to reiterate, the lack of class skill is intentional because Archaeologists are supposed to be a little bit worse than the Rogue at DD. Plus, their version of the ability gives them extra bonuses to DD.
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You people are all crazy!
The reason they don't get D.D. as a class skill is because they get /every/ skill as a class skill when Jack of All Trades comes rolling in at level 16.
You don't need to go running and trying to get it a class skill. Though you could get it earlier, you'd just be out a trait at later levels.
Yeah, but you have to wait until level 16. That's most of your useful adventuring career gone by.
Anyway to reiterate, the lack of class skill is intentional because Archaeologists are supposed to be a little bit worse than the Rogue at DD. Plus, their version of the ability gives them extra bonuses to DD.
Yep. But you do get it. Everyone kept saying how bards don't get it..
Anycase with Clever explorer
*half his class level on Disable Device and Perception checks.
This actually gives you a flat bonus to perception, not just to locating traps.
* can disable intricate and complex devices in half the normal amount of time (minimum 1 round)
Quick Disable, but for other devices. Most of the time its going to be traps, but there might be something I'm over looking.
*open a lock as a standard action.
Fast Picks Rogue Talent
*At 6th level, an archaeologist can take 10 on Disable Device checks, even if distracted or endangered, and can disarm magical traps.
Minor version of Skill Master.
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While there may be plenty of workarounds, it's silly that a class with a special ability relating to traps doesn't get Disable Device as a class skill.
Its just that they get it later. Honestly, I don't think any Bard archetype has any changes to their class skills if they keep JoAT. I might be wrong there though.
I also think that it's an oversight but as others said it doesn't matter.
The developers may not have realized it, but the designer has said that it was intentional they don't get it. At least at the time he sent it in.
I don't think it would be an unreasonable house rule to swap Performance as a class skill for Disable Device.
The developers may not have realized it, but the designer has said that it was intentional they don't get it. At least at the time he sent it in.
That he did. He also said that at the time it was sent in, they really weren't allowed to change around class skills (because that would entail reprinting the entire Class Skills block). So it wasn't an oversight at all. It was intentional that they do not get DD as a class skill.
Now, part of that reason may have been influenced by the word count limits imposed by editors, but a lot of it was also the "They get to disable traps, but they shouldn't be quite as good at is as Rogues" idea.
It seems odd to have an archaeologist that casts magic spells. I would have preferred if they had swapped out spellcasting for something else.
Well, the original direction was 'more rogue-like bard'. I wouldn't take much stock in the name, although when many ancient civilizations were themselves magical and influenced by magic, the scholars of those civilizations make sense to be magical...
With the archaeologist I'm currently playing, I took a trait to get Disable Device as a class skill. In a game I ran, I would rule that Archaeologists lose Perform as a class skill, and gain Disable Device.
Part of the problem was that the format for what was allowed to be done in archetypes wasn't set in stone at the time.