Is there a way for an alchemist to make an alchemical golem?
1. Craft(alchemy) 5 ranks
2. Master Craftsman
3. Craft Wondrous Item
4. Craft a homebrew variant of golem manual for alchemical golem
5. Craft the alchical golem using the manual and a high UMD
6. Profit! I mean golem :)
Actually they can. Having spell-like abilities qualifies you for feats, prestige classes and the like as though you were a spellcaster, so you just need a race that has one of those.
To put everything together into the correct answer: By RAW, an Alchemist with no spell-like abilities cannot qualify for magic item creation feats; if the Alchemist is of a race that grants them a spell-like ability then they can qualify (assuming the SLA meets the feat's prerequisites).
However, if this is not a PFS table, the FAQ does state that while the RAW is clear, it does cut of some thematically-appropriate ideas (like the alchemical golem from the Alchemist) and that they could be sensibly allowed as a house rule. Personally, this is the direction I take on the matter.
I thought alchemists were spell casters, thatbthey cast their spell when they drink the potion or extract?
They would be very limited to what they can craft because they would have to rely on scrolls and wands and sla.
That was my impression of it but I have been wrong many times before.
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No, according to the FAQ Here , they are not spell casters and cannot take the crafting feats. Even though they realize thematic issues may arise.
There has been some official answers stating alchemist doesn't qualify for item creation feats, they get brew potion in spite of this as an exception.
Actually son that's not totally right. Alchemists can't take craft wondrous item because they aren't spell casters.
Tell me: what does Master Craftsman do? it allows non-spellcasters to take craft wondrous items.
To put everything together into the correct answer: By RAW, an Alchemist with no spell-like abilities cannot qualify for magic item creation feats; if the Alchemist is of a race that grants them a spell-like ability then they can qualify (assuming the SLA meets the feat's prerequisites).
However, if this is not a PFS table, the FAQ does state that while the RAW is clear, it does cut of some thematically-appropriate ideas (like the alchemical golem from the Alchemist) and that they could be sensibly allowed as a house rule. Personally, this is the direction I take on the matter.
PFS has an "ABSOLUTE BAN ON ALL CRAFTING" so it would be impossible to craft one no matter what any FAQ says about crafting.
And by RAW they could take Master Craftsman, like everybody else with 5 ranks in a craft or profession skill.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Actually, I just noticed that the Golem Manuals require Craft Construct, and although the rules only say that the item creation feat being used can't replaced with a +5 DC(supported by FAQ), it's unclear about items requiring two item creation feats.
So the revised suggestion:
1) Buy Golem Manual - Alchemical Edition
2) Build your golem
3) Celebrate with its bombs as fireworks.
Alternatively, there's always "Ask your GM. Then beg your GM. Then bribe your GM"
I, for one, allow alchemists to take item creation feats.
| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Thematic, and other problems..
Hey, wait a minute. You're right! Those make no sense if alchemists are not able to take that Craft Wondrous Item feat.
Hey, wait a minute. You're right! Those make no sense if alchemists are not able to take that Craft Wondrous Item feat.Thematic, and other problems..
I believe it means that the npc creating the items would have to have alchemist class lvls along with a caster class legel to apply for the wondrous feat.
That's good to know about the alchemists and crafting feats though.
I built a level 16 alchemist with the feats: Skill Focus: Alchemy, Master Craftsman (Alchemy), Craft Magic Arms & Armor, Craft Wondrous Items.
Character has Craft: Alchemy +35 and can create even a belt of physical perfection (DC = 36, CL 16 +5, +15 for not having the spells bear's endurance, bull's strength and cat's grace, only as extracts which do not count).
Can I now use "craft: alchemy" for creating both arms & wondrous items?
RAW it seems plausible from the text in "Master Craftsman".
From a roleplaying perspective: the character also has Craft Armor +27, Spellcraft +27, Craft Weapons +27.
As I must use Craft: Alchemy (in this case), as by the text of Master Craftsman to create such an item, I think I can use it for both types of items (wondrous & arms and armor)
Or would you rule I had to take "Master Craftsman" more than once?
RAW; you can't take master craftsman more than once.
I think the intent of it is, that you can only create the items that already allow a craft skill check to replace the spellcraft skill check.
So craft(alchemy) might be of limited use - it's only mentioned for potions(and wondrous items if argued well).
The craft and profession skills for each item catagory are listed in the CRB pages 550-553.
I would allow you to use craft(alchemy) to craft at a(nother) penalty; like +10 DC or double time or something.
[But I'll allow almost anything if it's cool]
Master Craftsman + Craft Wondrous Item feats seems like it would work Preserving Flask and Admixture Vial.
But constructs are still a problem. Master Craftsman says you can't make Spell Trigger or Spell Completion items. The Golem Manuals are spell trigger items.
^^ That's true, I missed that part (too).
Homebrew:
Alchemist Discovery: Golem Crafter
- done
:)
RAW; you can't take master craftsman more than once.
I think the intent of it is, that you can only create the items that already allow a craft skill check to replace the spellcraft skill check.
So craft(alchemy) might be of limited use - it's only mentioned for potions(and wondrous items if argued well).
By RAW, no.
Lets say you take the Master Craftsman feat, because you have Craft(Armor) with 5 ranks. Then you must take either Craft Wondrous Items, or Craft Arms and Armor. Now, since you have you are under the impression that you can only use the Feat Craft Arms and Armor, and only to create magical armor. As far as I understand, that is not correct at all. You could take Craft Wondrous Items (which is decidely not amor) and craft any wondrous item using your Craft(Armor) skill to replace your caster level check made to craft the item. Otherwise, all the wizards need to start investing in a whole lot of crafting skills to make all the items they craft (if were keeping it fair).
Tl;dr
If you have Master Craftsman and Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Arms and Armor feats you can craft any wondrous item, magical weapon, or magical armor using the Craft skill you used to qualify for Master Craftsman.
Well... I used the word "intent"(on purpose), and when I used that word(on purpose), I meant it as "not specifically RAW".
Wizards can always, always, ALWAYS use spellcraft, read the listed skills on CRB pages 550-553: All items allow spellcraft skill checks and it is listed explicitly. So wizards and other regular crafters would not need to invest in specific craft skills.
I don't see where it says that Master Craftsman allows you to use profession(baker) to craft any wondrous item, armor and weapon you feel like(with the feats). But I may just have missed that part. If it's not there then I don't think your way is RAW - because, you know, not written.
My take is that yes, your a craftsmen specifically of armor. So you make mundane armor and not weapons. But, your such a good craftsman there is something magical about your work. Something magical enough that you can imbue into anything with sufficient effort. Otherwise the feats craft arms and armor or (especially) craft wondrous items is still terribly bad for non casters as they'll only be able to craft one subset of items. Which means they get half or less utility from a feat spent than casters do. And they had to pay another feat entry tax on top of it. I don't believe that was the intention at all.
If the Master Craftsman feat allowed you to make magical items out of items of the same type as your craft skill without needing an additional feat then I would say that it makes sense. As written master craftsman just lets you qualify for Craft Wondrous and Craft Arms and Armor where you wouldn't before.
I suppose that's a fair point.
But craft(alchemy) is so easy to boost to insane levels... :(
Yes, but every spell needed that you don't possess adds +5 to the DC to craft the item. Which adds up very quickly.
Thematic, and other problems..
You made my day by pointing that out.
Well, as a human alchemist..
+1/2 level to craft alchemy
+Alcehmist level to Craft Alchemy
+Ranks to craft alchemy
+int mod
+crafters fortune
+class ability..You know.. This /could/ mean you could, at level 18, make a full suit of armor as a standard action or whatever the instant alchemy is.
You use your craft alchemy skill in place of the spellcraft check that would normally be used to craft the item. Instant Alchemy does not apply to arms/armor/wondrous items because they are not alchemical items. You merely are using your craft skill in place of a spellcraft skill.
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You use your craft alchemy skill in place of the spellcraft check that would normally be used to craft the item. Instant Alchemy does not apply to arms/armor/wondrous items because they are not alchemical items. You merely are using your craft skill in place of a spellcraft skill.Well, as a human alchemist..
+1/2 level to craft alchemy
+Alcehmist level to Craft Alchemy
+Ranks to craft alchemy
+int mod
+crafters fortune
+class ability..You know.. This /could/ mean you could, at level 18, make a full suit of armor as a standard action or whatever the instant alchemy is.
darn. That would have been kinda cool for all the extra effort you had to go through.
