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I'll again quote Iomedae's text box. She's confused herself over whether or not the PCs are worthy.
“Welcome heroes. I am Iomedae. You are those who have proven most worthy to strike back against the Abyss’s latest injustice: the kidnapping of my own herald. Answer my questions truthfully and be found worthy of the great task I would set before you. Remain silent, and be known as cowards in the face of evil.”
Bolding my own.
I would argue that they PCs could be the most worthy of striking back, and still be considered unworthy of the task. "Most worthy" implies a non-binary scale of worthiness. In this, the PCs are most worthy because of their mythic tiers and all they have accomplished thus far. They are the only ones around who could possibly undertake this task. The second use of "worthy" is a binary usage, or is indicative of a threshold of the non-binary worthiness that the PCs must meet. The fact that they are highest on the scale of worthiness, or "most worthy", does not mean they pass the threshold of worthiness to undertake the task.
This is confusing and awkward wording, and they should have used different words to differentiate. Simply changing "most worthy" to "most able" completely clears up the confusion, and doesn't change the meaning by a significant degree.
Edit: typos . . .
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Would this make it better?
“Welcome heroes. I am Iomedae. You are those who have the greatest potential to strike back against the Abyss’s latest injustice: the kidnapping of my own herald. Answer my questions truthfully and be found truly worthy of the great task I would set before you. Remain silent, and be known as cowards in the face of evil.”
-Skeld
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So, I don't think anyone can disagree with the "If the PCs are uppity and openly mock her, trumpet blasts and divine light". Also, the first two questions deal trivial amounts of damage, and can be healed immediately. No PC should have trouble surviving wrong answers to those two, and they fit very well in the stern teacher rapping the knuckles or drill sergeant shouting at/punishing a recruit in boot camp.
3rd question wrong is 20d6 (Fort 25 to halve). For a level 15/tier 7 character, that fortitude save is high, but not too bad. The lowest Fort save will probably be around +10. Paladins and Fighters will probably have an easy time passing, and thus halving the damage. On top of that, assuming HP average rolls, the weakest PC should have 71 HP + 15*Con Mod. So, a wizard with 12 Con would be rocking ~86 HP. On average, the final blast does 70 damage. A lot, to be sure, but it should not be fatal. Other PCs should not care as much. Even at max damage, this would be barely enough to kill the level 7/Tier 1 Paladin in the group I DM. And even if a PC dies, they are instantly resurrected.
This all can be circumvented by the PCs acting heroic, which, you know, they should be doing. That is kind of expected in this AP. They way I read it, they don't even need to have a good plan at all, they just need to say, "We shall find a way, he no doubt has some form of weakness we can exploit". That is it! They just need to have an attitude of "We can do it! We will find a way!". On top of that, only one of the PCs really needs to respond this way, as she asks the question to the group. If none your PCs are capable of being heroic in book 5 of this AP . . . then you are running the wrong AP.
Iomedae is not a "supportive, nurturing, caring" goddess. She is a warrior goddess. She doesn't have time to coddle these warriors, and they need to step up. I don't see her as a "petulant child", I see her as a somewhat frustrated commander making sure that the people she has in front of her are right for the job. Them...
Iomadae is certainly not supposed to be nurturing - but she IS supposed to be supportive and caring. If even the good gods don't care (that's the definition of "caring"), if even they are not supportive... then who the hack is? because their clerics certainly are.
What's the point in fighting evil, in all it's myriad forms, if you are so uncaring that kidnapping a group of people who proved themselves time and again in the most dire odds, and blasting them with force if they fail to answer in the exact way you wanted to will seem reasonable to you... why even bother protect those humans? you obviously forgot how it is to be one, and causing intense, needless pain or even KILLING someone (even though they are later resurrected, I'm sure the entire process is unpleasant in the extreme) is not the best way to start remembering.Face it - if you would have seen a movie about a human doing the exact same thing Iomedae is doing (say, a high ranking military man kidnapping his best soldiers, asking them questions and torturing them when they get one wrong, "to prepare them for a mission"), you would be very comfortable with dubbing that human The Bad Guy, calling him a psychopath and cheering when the good guys catch him and stop him in the end. But somehow, because Iomadae is Good, everything she does is arbitrarily declared Good, too.
I would stress again that the issue here is not that most of us think there's a serious risk of players playing the scene poorly enough to warrant going down that path. It's that, as GMs and fans of the setting, reading that Iomadae is not only capable of such behavior but willingly enacts it on her mightiest champions with no need, and without for a moment feeling any sort of doubt or regret about it... it's disappointing.
Again, all of this can be solved by few abjustments.
1) make the pcs choose to go up. Send to them someone that says (touch me and be taken to heaven, iomedae wish to speak with you).
2) have Another celestial with iomedae who plays the "bad cop role", like a solar or a scar red planetar general. He should question the valor of pcs while the godess remains silent, listening the two parts.
3) no Celestial choir! If you wand an angry godess then punishment should be something appropriate for each pc. Like changin them into minotaurs! (Something that i would call a Smart move)
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another tact to take would be to have these not as punishments but just an aspect of having to interact with a divine being. You would need to seriously rewrite still, but what if Iomedae's voice is something that mortal ears can't really handle? Or just her presence induces involuntary awe.
As a trope it's not without precedent: In Supernatural, the pure form of an angel can burn out eyes and deafen people. In Dogma, human heads explode if they hear the voice of God.
So yeah, to capture the awe aspect of a god I would probably rewrite the beginning to more fit what I described above. That way it is not Iomedae being deliberately "cruel", so much as it is not being able to fully calibrate the power of her divinity to something a mortal can understand/easily handle.
another tact to take would be to have these not as punishments but just an aspect of having to interact with a divine being. You would need to seriously rewrite still, but what if Iomedae's voice is something that mortal ears can't really handle? Or just her presence induces involuntary awe.
As a trope it's not without precedent: In Supernatural, the pure form of an angel can burn out eyes and deafen people. In Dogma, human heads explode if they hear the voice of God.
So yeah, to capture the awe aspect of a god I would probably rewrite the beginning to more fit what I described above. That way it is not Iomedae being deliberately "cruel", so much as it is not being able to fully calibrate the power of her divinity to something a mortal can understand/easily handle.
I like your idea.
Yet for me you forget that, now by now. Pcs are no more mortals.They are something more like divine seeds that are becomes blossom. Like caterpillars in front of butterfly. They should be extremely resilient to this.
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Nope, I call a spade a spade. It's torture, plain and simple.
That's the joke dude. It's okay to laugh. ;)
another tact to take would be to have these not as punishments but just an aspect of having to interact with a divine being. You would need to seriously rewrite still, but what if Iomedae's voice is something that mortal ears can't really handle? Or just her presence induces involuntary awe.
As a trope it's not without precedent: In Supernatural, the pure form of an angel can burn out eyes and deafen people. In Dogma, human heads explode if they hear the voice of God.
So yeah, to capture the awe aspect of a god I would probably rewrite the beginning to more fit what I described above. That way it is not Iomedae being deliberately "cruel", so much as it is not being able to fully calibrate the power of her divinity to something a mortal can understand/easily handle.
My thoughts exactly, but you put them forth much more precisely.
They should be extremely resilient to this.
Maybe this is the "extremely resilient" reaction.
Face it - if you would have seen a movie about a human doing the exact same thing Iomedae is doing (say, a high ranking military man kidnapping his best soldiers, asking them questions and torturing them when they get one wrong, "to prepare them for a mission"), you would be very comfortable with dubbing that human The Bad Guy, calling him a psychopath and cheering when the good guys catch him and stop him in the end. But somehow, because Iomadae is Good, everything she does is arbitrarily declared Good, too.
I see what you call "kidnapping of his best soldiers" as the divine version of the commander walking into a room full of soldiers, saying "you three, with me", and then walking out with soldiers in tow. That trope is played out a lot in movies by the good guys. Yes, if a mortal commander randomly took 4 soldiers to a different plane of existence to give them their orders, that would be absurd. But Iomedae is a divine being. She adheres to different rules. Sending a celestial messenger is a good middle ground, but the "kidnapping" is really just a divine way of taking some of her soldiers into another room to give them their new orders. Ask any military commander if they would like the ability to instantly have any soldier they need to give orders to in their command tent immediately and not have any time pass during the meeting, and I'm guessing they would ask where to sign up. Quite frankly, if the PCs are indignant at the "kidnapping", then they shouldn't be there, or are at least likely to be the uppity PCs that get blasted for mocking the goddess. "How dare the goddess in charge of the Crusade against the Worldwound stop time and whisk me off for a private chat! Can you believe her nerve?". Any PC with proper respect for the gods should have the attitude of being honored to be taken to the realm of a god and personally talk with them.
For the "torture" portion . . . again, it is really unlikely that the PCs, if even one fits in at all with the campaign, will get hit by the 20d6 damage. The 5d6 and 10d6 are minor scratches to the PCs at this point, and a DC 25 Knowledge(religion) check should be ludicrously simple to make, and the redemption answer just requires them to deliberate a bit before answering. I don't disagree that this punishment seems somewhat out of place, but given the average military commander in modern times, do you really think they would be happy with an elite squad of soldiers saying "We have no clue if we are going to be able to do this and we don't really want to try"? Because that is the equivalent of an answer that merits the 20d6 damage. For none of the PCs to reply with any bravery or confidence.
Another thing, the damage is not that strange when you consider that:
Although Iomedae knows the PCs are powerful, she wants them to demonstrate their righteousness and valor
before her. She needs to know they can stand before a true
deity and not quail or be reduced to groveling, for if they
can withstand her presence and impress her, then surely
the taint of a demon lord’s realm will have a difficult time
corrupting or destroying them.
She wants to see if they can stand before her and withstand her. The trumpets are a part of that, and could be easily modified into withstanding hearing her "angry voice", as someone suggested earlier. The trumpet blasts are less of a "how dare you get the question wrong! I'm going to beat you now!" and more of a "well, if you can't prove your mettle via your answer, can you prove it through your fortitude?".
Also, yes the PCs have been in a demon lord's realm before in the Midnight Isle's, but Nocticula was not actively hostile to the PCs, and Baphomet is. There is a huge difference between a manipulative potential-ally demon lord, and a vicious, brilliant, angry demon lord. Some additional vetting is merited.
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Face it - if you would have seen a movie about a human doing the exact same thing Iomedae is doing (say, a high ranking military man kidnapping his best soldiers, asking them questions and torturing them when they get one wrong, "to prepare them for a mission"), you would be very comfortable with dubbing that human The Bad Guy, calling him a psychopath and cheering when the good guys catch him and stop him in the end. But somehow, because Iomadae is Good, everything she does is arbitrarily declared Good, too.I see what you call "kidnapping of his best soldiers" as the divine version of the commander walking into a room full of soldiers, saying "you three, with me", and then walking out with soldiers in tow. That trope is played out a lot in movies by the good guys. Yes, if a mortal commander randomly took 4 soldiers to a different plane of existence to give them their orders, that would be absurd. But Iomedae is a divine being. She adheres to different rules. Sending a celestial messenger is a good middle ground, but the "kidnapping" is really just a divine way of taking some of her soldiers into another room to give them their new orders. Ask any military commander if they would like the ability to instantly have any soldier they need to give orders to in their command tent immediately and not have any time pass during the meeting, and I'm guessing they would ask where to sign up. Quite frankly, if the PCs are indignant at the "kidnapping", then they shouldn't be there, or are at least likely to be the uppity PCs that get blasted for mocking the goddess. "How dare the goddess in charge of the Crusade against the Worldwound stop time and whisk me off for a private chat! Can you believe her nerve?". Any PC with proper respect for the gods should have the attitude of being honored to be taken to the realm of a god and personally talk with them.
For the "torture" portion . . . again, it is really unlikely that the PCs, if even one fits in at all with the campaign, will get hit...
A) There's a huge difference between a commander walking into a room and ordering a group of soldiers to follow, and the PCs being teleported without warning into another plane of existence. What small element of choice the soldiers had, the PCs don't.
The important thing here is that the PCs are not working for Iomedae. They are not soldiers who signed contracts and took oaths to answer to their superior officers. The PCs and Iomedae simply have a common goal. She doesn't treat them like partners, though. And the PCs should indeed be honored but again, they don't know what we, the readers of the adventure, know - that Iomedae is acting with the intention to harm them if they fail at her little game of riddle-me-this. My complaint is, and I hope that this is the last time I repeat this, of the way that we, the GMs, are presented with Iomedae. Not with the way the players will react.B) For the torture part... I know it's not doing much to the PCs, but number like 10d6 mean something in the game world. She is blasting them with sound intensive enough to deal damage like 10 stabs of a short sword, for example. That is torture. That is inflicting pain WITHOUT PROVOCATION, to good aligned people who did more to save the world than any other in their generation, and from whom Iomedae is about to demand the most dangerous mission they have done yet. That's just not a way to treat such people. In fact, if anyone treated, say, prisoners in that way, it will be considered evil and abusive.
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I would stress again that the issue here is not that most of us think there's a serious risk of players playing the scene poorly enough to warrant going down that path. It's that, as GMs and fans of the setting, reading that Iomadae is not only capable of such behavior but willingly enacts it on her mightiest champions with no need, and without for a moment feeling any sort of doubt or regret about it... it's disappointing.
It seems that the people argueing against our point seem to miss that this is the crux of the matter, not that we as individual GM's can change the depiction in the module. Having such an extremely deplorable attitude by the major LG goddess of (strong emphasis mine) justice and honor and righteousness of the setting canonized by no one less than James Jacobs as to what appears to be normal behaviour for her is extremely disappointing to me. It bears no resemblance to what I'd expect a deity of those three aspects to embody.
That's the joke dude. It's okay to laugh. ;)
I am very much not amused by this horrible characterization of Iomedae. Since when is torture acceptable for LG anyone's, much less gods?
The greater irony is that if the players fail and the Worldwound expands? Then according to James Jacobs, the isolationist elves end up working to evacuate humans and half-elves while fleeing Golarion. Because they're Chaotic Good. So a Chaotic Good group of isolationists will help neighboring nations, but a Lawful Good goddess will smack you upside the head if your answer vaguely isn't to her satisfaction or if you dare talk back to her.
Right.
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I really don't see Iomedae as coming across as a demanding, petulant child to anyone other than PCs who are uppity or mistake Iomedae for Sarenrae or Shelyn. Iomedae may not be as harsh as Ragathiel, but she is no where near as cuddly as her NG counterparts.
Jesus, if Iomedae deals 20d6 sonic damage to people she doesn't like, what would Ragathiel do? Snap a PC's neck as a warning to the others?
Between this and the Erastil controversy, I'd say Paizo is having a little bit of trouble portraying their LG deities.
Creative Director
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Frankly, I'm still kind of shocked at the way some folks have taken this encounter with Iomedae. It wasn't my intention to recast her as a goddess of torture, and I still don't think that how she's presented in the adventure does so... but I CAN see how it's possible to interpret things that way.
Again... if you're concerned that your players might see this whole encounter as overly antagonistic, then by ALL MEANS change the encounter so that you convey to the PCs that Iomedae isn't there to be their friends—she's there to make sure they're made of the right stuff to endure an adventure that may well put them in direct confrontation with a demon lord.
Remember... while this isn't the first Abyss adventure in the AP, it IS the first one that sends the PCs into a region that the realm's ruler does not want visitors in. There's a world of difference between...
Anyway, the topic is obviously one that folks want to discuss, and it's taking on a life of its own, so it's probably time to start a new thread dedicated to that topic, I guess?
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The greater irony is that if the players fail and the Worldwound expands? Then according to James Jacobs, the isolationist elves end up working to evacuate humans and half-elves while fleeing Golarion. Because they're Chaotic Good. So a Chaotic Good group of isolationists will help neighboring nations, but a Lawful Good goddess will smack you upside the head if your answer vaguely isn't to her satisfaction or if you dare talk back to her.
Right.
Holy Putting Words In My Mouth!
First... the elves aren't intended to be isolationists in Golarion. That's a trope from Tolkein that other D&D settings embraced and that we're trying to shed.
Second... That was more of an idle rumination on what the elves might do to their neighbors if they decided to evacuate Golarion.
Third... Lawful Good is not automatically "Lawful Nice."
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That's the joke dude. It's okay to laugh. ;)I am very much not amused by this horrible characterization of Iomedae. Since when is torture acceptable for LG anyone's, much less gods?
Torture isn't acceptable to LG anyones.
Whether or not what happens in this adventure is "torture" or not is, obviously, up to interpretation.
If you think it is, change it.
I don't. It's intended to be her testing the PCs... and it's not gonna happen unless the PCs fail to be "heroic" anyway. But as always... as I've said many times before...
... if it rubs you the wrong way... change it.
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That's the joke dude. It's okay to laugh. ;)I am very much not amused by this horrible characterization of Iomedae. Since when is torture acceptable for LG anyone's, much less gods?
Yes, but I don't think it's torture, not in practice, in spirit, or mechanically. It's unpleasant, but it's a god (in a very Greek sense) on a war footing, and getting annoyed by her supposed champions just not getting it. And remember, If they do get it, if they spend a little time considering her questions and their own place in the whole scheme of things, than her displeasure never rings forth from the rafters. The players are given a new, and epic, quest from the hand of a goddess, and some neat toys to help them along the way.
[trolling]And besides, if you don't agree with her characterization, change it! As DM, the power is yours! It's not that hard. Empty night, she can serve them tea and crumpets (divinely scrumptious!) if you want her to. Then she can ask them, hat in hand, if they'd be so kind as to pretty please go and save her herald. She'd super appreciate it! She'll be their friend!! And after all, the real magic is friendship![/trolling]
But seriously, there are those of us who take this whole encounter in a different light. I'm not saying that you and your group are wrong to take it the way you think they will. I disagree with it, but I can get where you're coming from. But at the same time, you're not right either. It's open to interpretation.
So, how about instead of all of us in this endless debate on how Iomedea is, or is not, presented the "right" way, we try to all collectively focus on debugging this encounter, and talking about other encounters to debug and adapt as well.
Discord's name, my groups aren't even out of book 2 yet, so I have plenty of time to soak in the comments and plug them into my adaptation.
I was hoping that there would be a sidebar or something giving some hints or advise on what Iomedae might say to any PC's with the Touched by Divinity background associated with her.
Thoughts from my fellow DM's?
Frankly, I'm still kind of shocked at the way some folks have taken this encounter with Iomedae. It wasn't my intention to recast her as a goddess of torture, and I still don't think that how she's presented in the adventure does so... but I CAN see how it's possible to interpret things that way.
Again... if you're concerned that your players might see this whole encounter as overly antagonistic, then by ALL MEANS change the encounter so that you convey to the PCs that Iomedae isn't there to be their friends—she's there to make sure they're made of the right stuff to endure an adventure that may well put them in direct confrontation with a demon lord.
Remember... while this isn't the first Abyss adventure in the AP, it IS the first one that sends the PCs into a region that the realm's ruler does not want visitors in. There's a world of difference between... ** spoiler omitted **
Anyway, the topic is obviously one that folks want to discuss, and it's taking on a life of its own, so it's probably time to start a new thread dedicated to that topic, I guess?
I think the issue at hand is that people expect a Lawful Good deity to be as good as the demon lords are hideous and brutal. If you play someone like an LG cleric or a paladin, the typical assumption is that they hold nothing more important then the word of their deity, who is presumed to be an embodiment of justice and nobility. Obviously, it doesn't mean that the deity has to be morally perfect, but it shouldn't feel like something that a PC would hesitate to sacrifice him/herself for. One way to think of it is, would Irabeth or Galfrey punch someone in the mouth for being *slightly* irreverent, or not answering a question correctly? If Iomedae is as charismatic, intelligent, and wise as the setting portrays her, can't she just lecture the PCs after they do or say something ridiculous, provided it's not REALLY stupid like attacking her? Something to the effect of, "this is why you're wrong, this is why you should stop doing it, and this is what you need to be doing instead."
I completely understand that she's written to a highly militaristic deity and necessarily harsh, but she was in the same place as the PCs before: a mythic hero putting her life on the line and facing impossible odds, fighting to preserve civilization and protect the innocent. Even if she's not going to be "friends" I do think some kinship (and gratitude) is in order. Sort of like the pride an officier feels towards his (her in this case) younger subordinates.
Sorry for the textwall Mr. Jacobs, I just wanted to give my 2 cp on the matter.
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I completely understand that she's written to a highly militaristic deity and necessarily harsh, but she was in the same place as the PCs before: a mythic hero putting her life on the line and facing impossible odds, fighting to preserve civilization and protect the innocent. Even if she's not going to be "friends" I do think some kinship (and gratitude) is in order. Sort of like the pride an officier feels towards his (her in this case) younger subordinates.
Perhaps... but then again, until this point, Iomedae hasn't really spent a lot of time in the adventure directly interacting with the PCs. That, of course, may be different in any one game... ESPECIALLY if one of the PCs in the group is her child or something like that. In such a case, you should absolutely change things around to make her more friendly—in such a case, she DOES have a pre-established direct relationship with the PCs (or at least one of them). But we don't assume that. The baseline assumption is that this is the first time she's directly encountering the PCs, and it's just not in her nature to approach ANYONE new with open arms and a smile. Iomedae isn't an optimist. She's a realist. She'll certainly have gratitude with the PCs if they rescue the herald and such... but at the start of the adventure, she's hardly in a position where the PCs have been her "younger subordinates" for long at all. Again—as written. And again—if in your game you've bolstered her role or she does have children among the PCs... she could well be friendlier.
In your opinion, if one of the PCs fell to her knees and tearfully pleaded "Righteous Inheritor! Please, I beg of you: send your Archons into the Worldwound and destroy the demons once and for all! Your people are crying out for their salvation!" Would she try to comfort them, or at least not blast them with trumpets? Because if she did blast them, she would lose all sympathy at that point.
She wouldn't blast them with trumpets, but she would be very disappointed that as so-called hero suddenly started groveling. She'd likely say as much, or something along the lines of "A proper hero shouldn't appear weak or grovel before anyone, and should seek to bring salvation to the people through their own acts of valor and courage."
The point is, Iomedae helps those who help themselves. She isn't going to fight all the battles of her worshipers for them, because A) that's not how gods do things and B) that's not a story that gives PCs something to do.
If a groveling PC continued to beg and simper at her feet, she'd get fed up and frustrated that heroes who managed to make it this far were obviously only a hair away from breaking anyway. She would likely seek proper heroes elsewhere, and the PCs would need to continue on the adventure on their own.
In any event... no two lawful good ANYTHINGS are exactly alike. There are lawful good deities out there who ARE friendly... there are plenty of Empyreal Lords, for example, and I suspect Erastil would be more kindly to his worshipers as well.
And if you think that Iomedae simply lecturing the PCs will do the trick, then go for it.
As written... her actions are really only intended to punish or motivate PCs who are disrespecting her or who are otherwise not living up to their potential.
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NOW.
Looking at the words as written...
Iomedae's first reaction to what I hope are actual heroic PCs is not to blast them. That's something she generally reserves for "proud, stubborn, or evil PCs" which may well be in the party. The adventure path works best for good guys, but we can't assume all parties are such.
And even then, an arrogant or evil or disrespectful party won't automatically get the trumpets. That happens ONLY when a PC mocks her or attacks her. In that case... her retaliation isn't evil. It's perfectly in character for her to flex her divine power to damage and hurt someone who insults or attacks her. She's good, but she doesn't suffer those mortals foolish enough to taunt her, ESPECIALLY when she approaches them first to provide aid.
Now, moving on from there... as long as no one mocks or attacks her, the only time she shows her displeasure is when the PCs fail to answer her questions to her satisfaction.
In describing how the PCs can fail these questions, I tried to develop Wolfgang's text so that it would be obvious that even a party that's not able to answer the questions but who presents themselves in the right way can pass.
In any event, as detailed in "Iomedae's Call to Glory," once all this is done, she completely restores ALL of the PCs. All damage they may have suffered is restored, and she even true resurrects anyone unfortunate enough to have died. That's not something someone who's just torturing someone for kicks would do.
And finally... remember that this is supposed to be one of the mythic trials the PCs face. If the encounter were simply "Let Iomedae give you some quests" and there was no risk of failure involved, that would essentially be a free mythic trial, and that's not what a mythic trial is supposed to be.
Anyway... that's about all I can really say at this point, I suppose. It seems that some folks have taken the encounter not in the way it was intended, and I hope my feedback and words here can help them rebuild the encounter as needed for their group so that it works fine.
The greater irony is that if the players fail and the Worldwound expands? Then according to James Jacobs, the isolationist elves end up working to evacuate humans and half-elves while fleeing Golarion. Because they're Chaotic Good. So a Chaotic Good group of isolationists will help neighboring nations, but a Lawful Good goddess will smack you upside the head if your answer vaguely isn't to her satisfaction or if you dare talk back to her.
Right.
Holy Putting Words In My Mouth!
First... the elves aren't intended to be isolationists in Golarion. That's a trope from Tolkein that other D&D settings embraced and that we're trying to shed.
Second... That was more of an idle rumination on what the elves might do to their neighbors if they decided to evacuate Golarion.
Third... Lawful Good is not automatically "Lawful Nice."
James, when is the last time you read Second Darkness? I just finished reading the AP path for enjoyment (as I very much doubt I'll ever get to run it, seeing that my RoW group meets every other month on average and the Skype group every three weeks if I'm lucky) and it did talk about how the Winter Guard was isolationist and kept trying to force the elvish rulers to maintain outdated policies and social systems.
While the Queen herself is not isolationist, there are strong elements in her society that are. And it is stated outright on page 96 of the Inner Sea World Guide "Despite their huge leap forward in civilization over the last few thousand years, humans still have a ways to come before their bizarre panoply of religions and governments has any hope of matching elven refinement. As a result, the elves' natural tendency toward isolationism continues to hold sway in Kyonin, and its closed borders are patrolled with deadly effectiveness by wraithlike bands of rangers." The book was published in 2011, assuming the copyright data is for when it was released.
And Lawful Good is not Lawful Nice. But a goddess of justice and honor and righteousness would not be the type to blast the ears of people just because they got a damn question wrong, especially if these people don't worship her.
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James, when is the last time you read Second Darkness? I just finished reading the AP path for enjoyment (as I very much doubt I'll ever get to run it, seeing that my RoW group meets every other month on average and the Skype group every three weeks if I'm lucky) and it did talk about how the Winter Guard was isolationist and kept trying to force the elvish rulers to maintain outdated policies and social systems.
That would be 7 years ago or so. But the antagonism and internet rage some folks have for the AP is something I still come across to this day, so I'm pretty sensitive and thin-skinned about what I had hoped would be a much better AP. Of ALL the APs we've done, Second Darkness is the one I'd like to revise the most. But unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen for various reasons.
While the Queen herself is not isolationist, there are strong elements in her society that are. And it is stated outright on page 96 of the Inner Sea World Guide "Despite their huge leap forward in civilization over the last few thousand years, humans still have a ways to come before their bizarre panoply of religions and governments has any hope of matching elven refinement. As a result, the elves' natural tendency toward isolationism continues to hold sway in Kyonin, and its closed borders are patrolled with deadly effectiveness by wraithlike bands of rangers." The book was published in 2011, assuming the copyright data is for when it was released.
That's correct. Elves DO have isolationist elements to them, but my point is that they're not jerks about it; they're supposed to be good.
And frankly, my comment about them abandoning that isolationist element to help their neighbors was not entirely accurate—turns out comments on message boards don't always have the benefit of lots of thought put into them. The more I think about it, the more likely it is, I suppose, that the elves would leave Andoran to their fate if the Worldwound forced them to flee. Not that they're really in a position to provide much aid to Andoran in such a case anyway. In any event... the actual article has more information about it than these boards, and I didn't write nor did I develop the article, so I can't really comment more on it.
And Lawful Good is not Lawful Nice. But a goddess of justice and honor and righteousness would not be the type to blast the ears of people just because they got a damn question wrong, especially if these people don't worship her.
Oversimplification... but whatever. It's obvious I could have developed this part of the adventure better to be more clear in how to portray Iomedae's personality. I hope my words here help folks who need it to fix the adventure where they feel it needs fixing, in any event.
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I think making this a Mythic Trial is the problem, James. By making that choice, you had to make it an 'encounter'. Building the scene that way naturally casts Iomedae as an antagonist.
And I'm sorry to say, I think your development of the text ended up portraying exactly the opposite of what you intended. The wording of what she's looking for in the answers is vague and even self-contradictory--humble but confident; conflicted, but providing a definite answer, yet not arguing amongst the party. Reading all that, it feels like the PCs are bound to walk away from the encounter imprisioned, or banished, or banished and then thrown into a prison in the place they were banished to. (#MyLittlePonyMemeHumor)
I think Adelai Niska might disagree with your assessment of a torturer's concern with keeping his subjects alive. In all seriousness, though, I wouldn't call the trumpets 'torture' as such. But I might at the least call it bullying. Corporal punishment simply seems massively out of proportion for the situation. Put it another way--if the damage weren't a trumpet blast, but took the form of Iomedae physically striking the PC who answered incorrectly, would we still have an argument over whether the punishment was inappropriate?
Well, James, I hope it lightens your heart a little to learn that I personally enjoyed reading Second Darkness and would love to run a campaign using it. I'd undoubtedly alter a couple of things but to be honest, I've been altering Reign of Winter (partly in that the group was 3rd and 4th level when starting it) and will likely redo elements of Wrath of the Righteous. It's the writer in me along with the Gamemaster.
In many ways, SD reminds me of a mixture of Night Below and Vault of the Drow, both modules I very much loved (the former of which I ran twice, once all the way through).
I will admit some idle curiosity as to how big a bite was taken out of the back stock of SD books; while that back stock isn't alone in why we won't see a SD Anniversary Edition anytime soon, if it did get a bite taken out of it then in theory a 20th anniversary book reworking it might happen. Hey, I can dream. ;)
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Looking at the encounter with Iomedae, I think the problem is akin to that suffered by comic books (and some webcomics): confusing conflict with combat. If the encounter with her did not include any damage at all (unless she was attacked - though I could see her just striking dumb (mute, that is) a character who was verbally uppity) and instead used "shock and awe" to drive home the point then the scene works better.
And really, this is the problem people have with this scene: This goddess is portrayed as a bully who harms the very people she's asking for help from because they don't fulfill her opinion on how they should act. Nor is this even some entity that was always divine. This was a human who ascended. She knows how humanity is like because she once was human.
She wouldn't blast them with trumpets, but she would be very disappointed that as so-called hero suddenly started groveling. She'd likely say as much, or something along the lines of "A proper hero shouldn't appear weak or grovel before anyone, and should seek to bring salvation to the people through their own acts of valor and courage."
The point is, Iomedae helps those who help themselves. She isn't going to fight all the battles of her worshipers for them, because A) that's not how gods do things and B) that's not a story that gives PCs something to do.
If a groveling PC continued to beg and simper at her feet, she'd get fed up and frustrated that heroes who managed to make it this far were obviously only a hair away from breaking anyway. She would likely seek proper heroes elsewhere, and the PCs would need to continue on the adventure on their own.
In any event... no two lawful good ANYTHINGS are exactly alike. There are lawful good deities out there who ARE friendly... there are plenty of Empyreal Lords, for example, and I suspect Erastil would be more kindly to his worshipers as well.
And if you think that Iomedae simply lecturing the PCs will do the trick, then go for it.
As written... her actions are really only intended to punish or motivate PCs who are disrespecting her or who are otherwise not living up to their potential.
I understand that gods aren't supposed to fight the PC's battles for them, or else there would not be a game. But roleplaying as a character in the game world who is highly angered and distressed by what the demons are doing, I can see someone saying, "Where are the angelic legions!?"
Even in the real world, hardened and heroic warriors have their breaking points. And even devoutly religious people fighting through a horrific crisis sometimes think, "Why won't you help us God???"
Even if the PC in question did eventually suck it up, I can easily imagine a pious paladin who has served Iomedae all of his life being emotionally overwhelmed at the sight of his goddess, and plead for her to intervene and liberate his family, friends, and nation. After all, he's (technically) still mortal.
2) Iomedae's herald used to be Ragathiel's herald. I imagine this would provide additional incentive for a follower of Ragathiel to save him, but from your perspective would she have anything interesting or specific to say to a Ragathiel worshiper, or would she not bring it up? What kind of relationship do Ragathiel and Iomedae have?
3) Would she be noticeably less supportive of nonlawful or neutral deities such as Cayden Cailean, Abadar, or Pharasma or would she treat them the same as LG party members?
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Actually, since tropes are being thrown around... has anyone taken a look at the trope Good Is Not Soft? Because, Iomedae seems to fall square into that category. This is how she has always been portrayed. The question is, are the PCs the same? Will they able to hold up or have they just been the beneficiaries of their circumstances? I have no problem with the trial as presented. Is it harsh? Without question. Is it dishonorable? No.
See, I liken it more to the trial Delenn and Sheridan endured with Sebastian in one of my favorite Babylon 5 episodes, 'Comes the Inquisitor'. The only difference is, Iomedae isn't using an intermediary the way Kosh did. She can't... the one she would use for that purpose, her herald, has been captured by the enemy and she's sending the PCs out to reclaim him in her name. So she takes a direct hand in determining the worth of those she would send out to (hopefully) return to her that which she has lost. And while their previous accomplishments up to this point are nothing to sneeze at, given what's at stake, Iomedae cannot take the chance that those she would call into her service will be 'soft'.
She has to know that they are "the right people, in the right place, at the right time", to quote Sebastian.
@Blayde: You have a point about good not being soft (or nice). However, Iomedae is honorable. If the party did not attack her (and to be honest I don't even count verbally berating her - she's a Goddess, she's above that sort of thing, and just hitting the offending party with a mute that he can't undo is punishment enough) then why should they suffer pain for not getting an answer correct? (And to be honest, sometimes people just have their dice go bad on them. If the player with Knowledge: Religion rolled a natural 1 and no one else had a lot of ranks in it, it's entirely possible for the players to flub question #1.)
Some people have posted methods of shock and awe that aren't blasting people's ears with sonic damage for this encounter. It is more cinematic and more dramatic than damaging people or hoping that the unlucky die rolls don't happen this one time.
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I'm not discounting anything that has been said. I even understand why some people may have issue with the way that its written. I was only stating why I personally had no issue with the scenario as presented.
A great part of honor is respect. If the players don't give her the respect due to her station, then she's wholly justified to use the choir in the way that she does (as only those that mock her hear the blast).
As far as failing the questions are concerned... yes, I agree that with the first, rolling a one is possible, but the burden isn't on merely one character. It's on all of them. A few aid another actions from the other players may be just what the situation calls for them to successfully get past the first question in that instance. As for the other two questions, remember, considering that they're more philosophical in nature, she's not so much looking for the 'right' answer as she is in how they both react and then respond. And that mainly plays into the psychological make-up of both the players and their characters. More self-interested players and characters may be quick to respond and that quickness to act could prove fatal in the wrong circumstance (as relates to the second question) or they may not have the heart and fortitude to endure (as relates to the third). And with each 'correct' answer, she rewards them with the tools necessary to accomplish their mission (the most important being not the items, but the
They're only going to those that are worthy in her eyes. Because the questions themselves play to her view of justice and righteousness. If they didn't, she wouldn't be asking them. Because while both can be tempered, they are still harsh (or rather, can be, in the right circumstance).
EDIT: I'm keeping in mind that the scenario is being run with the requisite number of players. For those that are running with less, then the scenario will be harder for them to get through.
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EDIT: I'm keeping in mind that the scenario is being run with the requisite number of players. For those that are running with less, then the scenario will be harder for them to get through.
With 3 member party (Arcanist, Paladin of Iomedae, and a Cleric of Iomedae) we had no trouble with it. But I completely agree with what you are saying. She can be a fierce Goddess as she is a Goddess of war even if she is LG.
I guess I’m the only person that at first didn’t know that the angelic choir was harming the characters on purpose if the characters failed to answer the questions correctly. I thought the choir awakening the characters was Iomedae trying divinely impart her knowledge/understanding/belief to the party. Reading this thread, I know I was wrong, but I think I like my interpretation better.
The setup reminded me a lot of a scene in Jim Butcher’s Dresden Files series. In one of the later books, Mab, the Queen of the Winter Fey, was so furious over an event that she had to speak through an intermediary. When she did speak, her voice was described as “…every vowel clawed at my skin and every consonant felt like someone taking a staple gun to my ears.” It wasn’t on purpose, she was just so powerful she had that effect. Or another way to put it, it’s like a lightning bolt trying to communicate with a hard drive.
Originally, I figured this was more of the same, with Iomedae trying explain why the characters were wrong; but she’s a goddess trying to explain to mortals and her presence and mood affects those around her. It’s not intentional, she’s just that powerful and affects the world around her. Normal mortals would be killed or rendered insane outright; but those with mythic power have the ability to stand up to the divine awe and weather the dissonance between them and the divine choir.
To me, it neatly explains why the gods generally don’t go talking directly to mortals (it would probably kill them), it takes away what is perceived as punishment for incorrectly answering questions, and demonstrates that the characters are mythic in that they can weather the attention of a god.
I know there are others who could explain it better (Todd Stewart comes to mind), but that’s my two cents. If I run the AP I’ll probably go with that explanation with some of what Blayde MacRonan touched upon. I’d probably adjust saving throws based on how closely the characters alignment matches the goddess and whether or not they are worshippers. Characters who are more “in tune” with the goddess are less likely to take as much damage.
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To me, it neatly explains why the gods generally don’t go talking directly to mortals (it would probably kill them), it takes away what is perceived as punishment for incorrectly answering questions, and demonstrates that the characters are mythic in that they can weather the attention of a god.
Hmm... Puts an interesting spin on the legend about Cayden Cailean taking the test of the starstone after being rebuffed by Calistria as not being able to survive a night in her arms. ;)
To me, it neatly explains why the gods generally don’t go talking directly to mortals (it would probably kill them), it takes away what is perceived as punishment for incorrectly answering questions, and demonstrates that the characters are mythic in that they can weather the attention of a god.Hmm... Puts an interesting spin on the legend about Cayden Cailean taking the test of the starstone after being rebuffed by Calistria as not being able to survive a night in her arms. ;)
Heh, I hadn't even thought of that. Makes me wonder if he chose the drunken portfolio as a form of self-defense.
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And finally... remember that this is supposed to be one of the mythic trials the PCs face. If the encounter were simply "Let Iomedae give you some quests" and there was no risk of failure involved, that would essentially be a free mythic trial, and that's not what a mythic trial is supposed to be.
I believe this is where a lot of the problem some of us have with this entire section stems from. In my mind, an encounter with a good aligned god is not supposed to be an obstacle in the PCs path. The moment you start thinking, "OK, so how do I challenge the PCs with this one", you immediately start thinking in ways that would lead to good gods acting differently than what I would think is appropriate for them.
I always fancied the forces of good in Golarion are kind of like the White from the Dark Tower. It's the counterbalance to all the evil that's going on. It's the ultimate force that cannot do much by itself... but it will always be there to help us puny mortals when in need. It will help us and aid us in any way it can because it cares. Because it loves.However, the Iomedae in this adventure is more like the "Not-Otherness" force from the adversary cycle. She does not care. She is not in any way sympathetic or understanding. She simply counters and negates evil forces, and that's just about the only reason to appreciate her.
She's not even there to help the PCs in their campaign against the abyss - she has her own, internal affairs to handle (saving her herald) and she charges the most powerful tools she have with the task of handling her problems. How many crusaders died in battle while the PCs were stumbling about the labyrinth? How many of them could have been saved by those high level, mythic adventurers? It doesn't matter to her. Just like it doesn't matter how many people Glen must kill to stop the Otherness.
While this is a possible interpretation for "good", it's certainly not the one I believed Golarion works on, and I would certainly change that for my home campaign. But discovering that this is how it's supposed to work in the canon? that's a major let down.
Now, moving on from there... as long as no one mocks or attacks her, the only time she shows her displeasure is when the PCs fail to answer her questions to her satisfaction.In describing how the PCs can fail these questions, I tried to develop Wolfgang's text so that it would be obvious that even a party that's not able to answer the questions but who presents themselves in the right way can pass.
In any event, as detailed in "Iomedae's Call to Glory," once all this is done, she completely restores ALL of the PCs. All damage they may have suffered is restored, and she even true resurrects anyone unfortunate enough to have died. That's not something someone who's just torturing someone for kicks would do.
Well, let's not for a moment doubt that if *anyone* creates a situation where a bunch of really, really good people even MIGHT be blasted by 20d6 damage (the equivalent of 2 fireballs cast by 10th level wizards), they must have a very, very, very good justification for it.
Seriously, if your players would have, say, captured Sandpoint's Sheriff to ask him some questions to see if he is able to defend the town in their absence, blasted him with increasingly powerful fireballs if he failed to answer to their taste, but then resurrected him... would you not have stopped the game and asked what the hack are they doing? Because I'm not comfortable with the idea that whatever the good gods do counts as good just because it's the gods doing them. That's arbitrary.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am somewhat amused that people are using characters like Sebastian (i.e. Jack the Ripper) and Queen Mab to justify Iomedae's actions. Paragons of justice and honor, those two! Right? Right?!? Those two are LN at best.
Anyway, why I think what Iomedae does is unequivocal torture is because of this: The PC's have zero power potential in this situation. They cannot harm Iomedae and they are completely at her mercy. She uses this total dominance to put the PC's to the question and, if she does not like their answers, punish them with corporal damage, to the point of maybe killing thm.
Again, to reinforce it: Even if the PC's were to physically attack her to defend themselves (or for whatever other reason), Iomedae cannot be harmed. At all. This means that she is in a position of absolute power here and she abuses this position to intimidate and physically harm those she has abducted from their homes, only because they don't answer how she would like them to. She knows fully well that she is invulnerable to any retribution for this behaviour.
If that doesn't raise some very uncomfortable associations with real life events, then you are not paying attention. "LG Good is not lawful nice" doesn't have to do anything with it.
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Oh Great and Mighty T-Rex, any thoughts/opinions on how Iomedae might treat her child during this hotly debated meeting between mortal and divine? Both groups I'm running through Wrath have that particular trait combo, and I was planning on doing something special for those characters. Any ideas you'd care to share?
Thanks!
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And finally... remember that this is supposed to be one of the mythic trials the PCs face. If the encounter were simply "Let Iomedae give you some quests" and there was no risk of failure involved, that would essentially be a free mythic trial, and that's not what a mythic trial is supposed to be.
Considering the PCs were given a free Mythic trial in witnessing the fight between Nocticula and Baphomet...
GOT A NOT IOMEDAE RELATED QUESTION!
What should happen when and if the PCs Defeat/kill Baphomet?
I mean, it's possible that pcs use the shroud they have to plane shift home before or after the battle, but what if the win against such powerful foe and then decide to remain there?
How does such event influence the labyrinth and its inhabitants?
Ad what about the many wardens of the prison.
I would like to know your opinions. Are the demodans gonna leave,not daring to even look at heroes capable of such might?
Who takes command, and what he does against the pcs?
Is B (assuming is alive) sending troup after troup to them from is tower or he we'll let them to go around his prison and free who-ever the care?
My personal idea is that, after the defeat of Baphomet, we got
If baphomet is dead
1) earthquakes and storm of vengeance everywere for 5 minutes after baphomet death. Is stuff melts away. Is weapon becames intellingent
2) 70% demodans and other stuff escaping the prison/ 30% prisoners dying for the commotion. some section of the labyrinth are engulfed in flames or something like.
3) The entire demiplane slowly being pulled away from the Abyss to Hell in 2d6 something (minutes? hours? days?). Pit fiends stat appearing in order to reclaim it. They may or may not be friendly.
4)A Thanatotic Titan son of Lamashtu that lives inside the labyrinth tries to:
- a) rally all the demodans to serve him
- b) reach baphomet weapon/treasures - remains and try to possess/consume them to ascend at a nascent demon lord status - becomes marshall 5 or something. He may become another foe for next module.
If baphomet survive
Pcs have 2d6 + 5 minutes of calm. No one dares to attack them. Baphomet in his tower lick his many wounds and summons his strongest servants, calling them from their occupations. They may be Mythic Glabrezus, mythic level 18 or more half fiend, maybe even a nascent demon lord backed with an entire army (1.000 at least) of lesser demons, and sends them. After that he takes control of the labyrinth, generating greater stone golems, walls and such effects.
Or, if he's completely livid, he could just Throw the entire demiplane away, casting it from the abyss like a comet throught the astral sea. The conseguences of this, the new perils PCS must face and how to escape could well be a mythic trial of their own.
Actually, demon lords can respawn. Their dead corpses crystallize in a specific layer of the Abyss. If someone tries to destroy that corpse so it can never be brought back, it reforms elsewhere on that layer... AND has a chance of coming back to life.
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I am somewhat amused that people are using characters like Sebastian (i.e. Jack the Ripper) and Queen Mab to justify Iomedae's actions. Paragons of justice and honor, those two! Right? Right?!? Those two are LN at best.
Anyway, why I think what Iomedae does is unequivocal torture is because of this: The PC's have zero power potential in this situation. They cannot harm Iomedae and they are completely at her mercy. She uses this total dominance to put the PC's to the question and, if she does not like their answers, punish them with corporal damage, to the point of maybe killing them.
Again, to reinforce it: Even if the PC's were to physically attack her to defend themselves (or for whatever other reason), Iomedae cannot be harmed. At all. This means that she is in a position of absolute power here and she abuses this position to intimidate and physically harm those she has abducted from their homes, only because they don't answer how she would like them to. She knows fully well that she is invulnerable to any retribution for this behaviour.
If that doesn't raise some very uncomfortable associations with real life events, then you are not paying attention. "LG Good is not lawful nice" doesn't have to do anything with it.
I'm not trying to justify anything. I merely posited a scenario that I thought was similar to the one presented in the adventure and used it to explain why I had no problem with what was written. Again, I understand why you and others have issue with the encounter. And I have no problem with how you feel.
However, I got the impression that since Iomedae took on 'a humble form', the PCs are interacting with an aspect of hers rather than dealing with Iomedae in 'all her glory'. An aspect can be harmed. Iomedae in full on 'God Mode' cannot. And she clearly isn't in that form when they meet her. Because if she were, then the PCs wouldn't be getting saving throws to resist most of these effects (there's only one effect where they don't get a save and that's when they are deafened from the horn blasts for mocking her; you actually get to save against being rendered mute). In my mind, if she were operating with her full divinity in place, there would be no saving throws at all, mythic characters or not. The effects or damage would be dealt in full with no chance to resist. Heck, why even bother to roll the damage when you can just max it out or just say 'You're dead' and be done with it. Truth be told, she doesn't even have to ask them any questions. She could just look into their hearts and minds and just get the answers that she wants and there'd be nothing the PCs could do about it. That at least has been my understanding of how deities are supposed to operate based on what the developers have said in the past.
But that wouldn't exactly be sporting of a DM, now would it? I daresay that many would find that sort of behavior rather priggish if it were presented as such in the adventure. It gives the PCs zero ability to affect the outcome.
That, I think, is a major difference in how we perceive the scenario. She's actually giving the PCs the opportunity to affect the outcome of the encounter, then gives them the consequences based on what is done.
So when looking at the scenario from that perspective, it leads me to believe that the PCs aren't as helpless as you make them out to be. That they actually have more ability to affect things than you're giving them credit. Granted, its not much. But some ability is better than no ability.
Again, as stated before, I'm not trying to make my position right or reasonable. As a consumer, I'm just putting forth my reasons as to why I think the trial is fine as written, just as you and others have stated why you have issues with it. If anything I've said changes your point of view, even a little, then that's cool. If not, then that's cool too.
Edit: for clarity...
If the only only way to positively affect your situation is to do exactly as your torturer wants you to act, it's still torture. But of course, YMMV and so on.
It seems that the people argueing against our point seem to miss that this is the crux of the matter, not that we as individual GM's can change the depiction in the module. Having such an extremely deplorable attitude by the major LG goddess of (strong emphasis mine) justice and honor and righteousness of the setting canonized by no one less than James Jacobs as to what appears to be normal behaviour for her is extremely disappointing to me. It bears no resemblance to what I'd expect a deity of those three aspects to embody.
Is it any different then LG Paladins burning supposed witches and discriminating against those who don't look or believe like them?
Anyway, I don't think it's all that strange for her to be tough on the PCs, especially since she's sending them to basically face off against someone who would and did do worst, and ended up changing her herald, who I would presume was far more good then any mortal.
I dunno, it doesn't really seem like torture to me any more than slapping someone awake to get them out of a burning building or something. And yeah, at high level mythic, a couple d6s of sonic damage is just a slap in the face... which she heals immediately afterword.
And I don't think she's forcing the PCs to answer the questions... Maybe that could have been more clear. It only says what happens if they answer correctly or incorrectly, not if they refuse to answer. If the PCs don't accept her mission, or don't want to answer her questions, then I don't think she would blast them. But maybe that's a question for the creative director.
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I dunno, it doesn't really seem like torture to me any more than slapping someone awake to get them out of a burning building or something. And yeah, at high level mythic, a couple d6s of sonic damage is just a slap in the face... which she heals immediately afterword.
And I don't think she's forcing the PCs to answer the questions... Maybe that could have been more clear. It only says what happens if they answer correctly or incorrectly, not if they refuse to answer. If the PCs don't accept her mission, or don't want to answer her questions, then I don't think she would blast them. But maybe that's a question for the creative director.
If it IS a question for the Creative Director, then...
...She ONLY blasts the PCs if she thinks they need it because they're not going to survive in the Abyss. The sonic damage is supposed to be a wake up call.
If the PCs treat the encounter seriously, and give her the respect she deserves (this includes answering her questions or at least honestly trying to), then no, she won't blast them with sound. If the PCs fail to answer the questions correctly but comport themselves appropriately in the situation (as indicated in the text by being humble or self confident or by wrestling with the moral and ethical repercussions or whatever), then she won't blast them with sound. She might not give them the rewards they would have earned if they DID answer the questions, but she won't blast them for trying and failing.
It's basically a slap on the wrist to high level mythic characters is what it is. A "heads-up, pay attention" type thing.
Were she interviewing/speaking to lower level and/or non-mythic characters, she wouldn't blast them with that type of damage—but then again, she wouldn't be approaching them with such an important mission if they weren't high-level mythic characters.