My friends and i have just advanced from the beginner's box to the CRB and as GM i'm trying to make combat more interesting. I've introduced combat maneuvers but no one in the group is using them.
I was hoping to get some advice on how maneuvers are useful so i can explain this to the group.
The group consists of a Fighter 5, Rogue 5 and Wizard 5
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Bull rush off a ledge/cliff! Have an enemy sunder the fighter's armour or steal the wizard's spell component pouch! Disarming and tripping are powerful ways to reduce an enemy's effectiveness.
As for making combat more exciting, introduce environmental features to interact with during a fight (levers and buttons which activate traps etc, ledges and different elevations, weakened doors and walls which can be knocked down/smashed through). Add in enemies which take advantage of these environments and you'll get a difficult/challenging/ exciting encounter.
Consider using monsters with different special abilities rather than just 'attack'.
Try crafting three (or more) separate 'parts' to each encounter- one for each character's strengths to overcome. Eg a horde of goblins for the wizard to blast with fireball along with a few govlin elites for the fighter to chew through supported by an archer on a cliff for the rogue to climb up and 'assassin's creed' pull off the ledge. Add in some scared civilians, suddenly the PCs have to choose whether to save the civilians or attack the goblins.
Anyway hope that helps to get you thinking!
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If the party isn't using them?
The best way is to use them against the party. Once the players see that not doing so puts them at a disadvantage that will change their tune. Try to make every combat round a round that doesnt simply involve 'the enemy swings at you'... Ideally a game day should feature at least one situation the party is ideally suited to solve, giving them a chance to feel heroic about the choices they've made that give them strength, one situation that exploits a weakness of the group or a party member that reminds them that they have some achilles heels, zero parts 'sorry dave I can't let you do that because I hadn't planned for it in advance' and at between 1 and 100 parts 'sure! I wasn't expecting that to happen, lets run with it and see what happens!
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A big problem with maneuvers is they are conditional, disarm doesn't work against natural attacks (and LOTS of creatures use those). Taking and investing in them just to not be able to use them... is a let down.
Also many manuevers are more 'risky' to use. You try to grapple and have a worse chance at success than just out right hitting the creature with a weapon for damage? It's a wasted action, no thanks. When they work, it's really cool. But they are less likely to be effective and often are less likely to work unless you specialize in them (feat investment requiring 2-3 feats over several levels). And worse, by the time you do that, many creatures are essentially immune to them. Cannot trip a flying creature, the big bad nasty that you try to grapple is 2-3 sizes larger and has a huge strength score, and of course you cannot disarm that dragonss bite or claws...And sundering the Big Bad Evil Guy's weapon??? Heck no!! That is money down the drain and treasure you are throwing away!
Most people want to roll the dice and see numbers taken off hit point totals. Disarming might be a good idea and a sound tactic but it isn't nearly as exciting as possibly rolling a crit. In that way, manuevers are almost an 'advanced tactic' for someone who doesn't mind playing a 'support' role. When it works, it might do wonders, but it is far from showy. And it takes a certain type of player to enjoy that.
@ KidDangerous - great stuff thanks
@ Vincent - I was thinking using maneuvers against them might be the best way to show their potential, thanks.
@ Skylancer - Thanks. I think this is how the party feel about them, especially as they provoke an AOO. Maybe they'll feel better about them when they have more experience? for now i think i'll use environement to spice things up - and there's no reason i can't have the monsters frustrating the party with maneuvers ;)
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Throw them up against a well-designed monk or unarmed fighter who is built with greater trip and improved disarm. Toss the PCs (and their weapons) around a bit. You could create the monk as a martial arts master who doesn't hold any ill will towards the party, but has some sort of point to make with them: just have the master go through and dump the melee guys on their butts with (greater) trip attacks, disarming them as they fall, using improved disarm on the opportunity attack that he gets as the PC is tripped. If they choose to stand up, use dirty trick to throw sand in their eyes, disarm them (again, if they have drawn another weapon), or even pull their pants down. If you play it just right it should be slightly frustrating, but very funny encounter.
After the combat is over. be sure that they understand that combat maneuvers are very situational, but they can be very useful when used in the right situation.
Another way to make things interesting is terrain. Consider the abilities of your characters besides just hitting stuff. Does the wizard have the fly spell? Does the rogue have a high acrobatics? Maybe put an enemy up on a ledge with a ranged weapon for the rogue to jump to, or the wizard to put fly on the fighter for.
How are they healing through combats? A surprise encounter which gets the wizard low on hp early will probably make things interesting.
You have to be descriptive in a fight.
This.
During a battle you're no longer a "narrator". You're a sportscaster. Try watching any sporting event on television, while listening to a radio commentator. These people can make any dull match sound exciting.
Hats... Mr. Fishy uses hats, made from the skulls of his defeated enemies... and roadkill.
Be creative with the monsters. Have goblins throw jars filled with monsterous spiders or swarms. Cheaper and less deadly that acid or alchemist fire plus the casters get to burning hands party members.
Or hats.
TERRAIN! Give them things to interact with. I don't just mean ladders and pits, but braziers to tip over, a wheelbarrow or cauldron to block a door, a chandalier to swing on (if you're awesome enough), etc, etc.
Draw some of these things on the map. Its takes some training to teach the players that these things will yield a result, but if you play it loose and are receptive to their ideas, you'll have them backflipping, taunting, attempting untrained combat maneuvers, and switching sword hands in no time at all.
Play good epic combat music. Two Steps from Hell makes good boss music too.
Play good epic combat music. Two Steps from Hell makes good boss music too.
I heartily second this. Two Steps from Hell are fantastic.
Hats... Mr. Fishy uses hats, made from the skulls of his defeated enemies... and roadkill.
Be creative with the monsters. Have goblins throw jars filled with monsterous spiders or swarms. Cheaper and less deadly that acid or alchemist fire plus the casters get to burning hands party members.
Or hats.
Welcome back, Mr. Fishy!
Play good epic combat music. Two Steps from Hell makes good boss music too.I heartily second this. Two Steps from Hell are fantastic.
Why have I never heard these guys before!!! I even had a music and combat thread. WTH!
I was hoping to get some advice on how maneuvers are useful so i can explain this to the group.
I like a lot of the suggestions here. I've found that a well timed maneuver is often the difference between a dead party and a triumphant one. One way you may want to show your party how they work is to introduce a Duo. Perhaps two monks or fighters that use maneuvers to compliment each other.
Ex:
Evil fighter 1 makes a full attack action with 2 attacks. His first attack he opts to trip the wizard, on his second attack your wizard has a -4 to his AC. Now the second fighter moves in. On his attack the wizard is still at -4 and the second fighter is at a +2 because he is flanking. Now the wizard in order to extract himself from this situation needs to stand up or cast. Let's for the sake of the argument say he stands. Standing up provokes an AoO from both fighters. Guess what. The first fighter swings with the -4 to the wizard's AC (cause he is still on the ground AoO go off before the action) and +2 for flanking while the second fighter decides to make a disarm attempt. More than likely your wizard will be disarmed and badly bruised by this point. His most likely decision will be to run away. Well darn that's another AoO since these fighters have combat reflexes. Fighter one trips. Fighter 2 swings for damage. Now your wizard is back on the ground and praying that reinforcements show up.
Heck just reading that scenario should be enough to convince them that tactics and maneuvers matter.
Thanks everyone so far, amazing suggestions (especially hats). I'm really looking forward to incorporating them in to our game.