GenCon apparently holds some tantalizing teasers.
Fall 2013? Man this is going to hurt.
Nononononononononoonono
I haven't even gotten a chance to start the bones that I have D:
Oh god not again.
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In!
Hmm. Well it will be year from the start until they actually arrive, so by painting one miniature a day should get me almost ready for a second batch... Oh dear.
Too soon.
I've not painted any yet!
I wish they would have decided to wait until 2014.
Err you won't get any of these minis until 2014. Likely very late 2014.
Too soon.
I've not painted any yet!
I wish they would have decided to wait until 2014.
Err you won't get any of these minis until 2014. Likely very late 2014.
But you have to pay for them the moment the Kickstarter ends. So it does not matter when they deliver the box, I had to find money for it when I have none left.
Do we have any specifics yet? Any good links or anything?
There's a thread on Reaper's forum. It's only 18 pages so far... o.O
(I haven't read past page 1 yet)Bones Kickstarter #2
From the thread in the post above:
One poster hinted that she had been told at GenCon that the next KS would be new sculpts.
Reaperbryan posted this:
We aren't in planning meetings that aren't conversation at lunch. We are on the floor shipping rewards. And examining packages for errors. And filling out customs declarations. And so on.
When We ship the last reward and the last replacement part, We will dust off the old spreadsheet and crack open a new can of worms.Although, we did ask our concept artists and sculptors to think up cool things, but since none of them are shipping the rewards, it hardly subtracts from our output.
Another posted this:
From the little hints from the Reaper peeps at GenCon, there should be some very spiffy, BIG minis coming our way.
Totally in!
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Too soon.
I've not painted any yet!
I wish they would have decided to wait until 2014.
Err you won't get any of these minis until 2014. Likely very late 2014.
And I'm going to paint all of the vampire box and extras, plus my outstanding metal minis, in a year?
Only if I win the lottery and can quit my job.
Bones are great, just very tempting. Hopefully the new run will have less QC issues too (not that run 1 had many) now that they can make them all at Reaper.
More tidbits from the Reaper thread:
From what I heard at the GenCon paint and take. It will be some of the bigger kits being made into bones and more new mini's.
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Bones are great, just very tempting. Hopefully the new run will have less QC issues too (not that run 1 had many) now that they can make them all at Reaper.
It is very unlikely that they will all be made at Reaper. In an interview with Private Sanctuary, Reaper Bryan calculated that the Bones 1 would have taken them a number of years to finish with the one machine they have. To put it in context, the factory in China has 18 machines and it took them 8 months. So you will still see 'made in China' on the bottom of most of the figures.
That said...I am in...Hoping for a living version of Nethyrmaul
Pure speculation:
With the first injection mould machine ("Thomas") they will use it to master the technique and train people in using it. Then some of the income from both the first and the second Kickstarter will be used to expand their line of injection mould machines until the point where they can keep up with the demand themselves. Their plan has always been to move the entire production inhouse. Maybe the success of not only the Kickstarter, but the Bones line in general has surprised them and they have to buy more machines to keep up with the demand.
As much as I loved the first Kickstarter, using KS as a disintermediation tool gives me pause.
As much as I loved the first Kickstarter, using KS as a disintermediation tool gives me pause.
Erm, that's pretty much what KS is... a way to get funding directly without involving banks and other investment operations.
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As much as I loved the first Kickstarter, using KS as a disintermediation tool gives me pause.Erm, that's pretty much what KS is... a way to get funding directly without involving banks and other investment operations.
I like to think of it as a syndicated prepayment facility, except instead of say, gold from a gold mine, its Bones :) And there is little to no security (or risk) :)
As much as I loved the first Kickstarter, using KS as a disintermediation tool gives me pause.
You've been 'paused' for an awfully long time then. What else is KS other than a 'cut out the middleman' venture?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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As much as I loved the first Kickstarter, using KS as a disintermediation tool gives me pause.
I don't think that is Reaper's goal here. They are trying to convert their product lines over to more affordable plastic models and they are financing that tooling by pre selling minis. The traditional model would require they finance the tooling via a bank loan which is hugely risky and likely they would wind up far fewer models converted over.
Hopefully they will be better at communicating. As things are, I might buy the base package, but no way I'm risking the add on pile up from last time around.
Erm, that's pretty much what KS is... a way to get funding directly without involving banks and other investment operations.
Not that it matters, but...erm, no. Disintermediation refers specifically to the channel between producers and consumers, rather than capitalists and producers. In this case, it appears to be an unintended side-effect of generous backer rewards coupled with the runaway success of many Kickstarter campaigns.
I visited Game Depot (FLGS in Tempe, AZ) earlier this week, and commented on the lack of Reaper mini stock. The owner told me he hasn't received any product from Reaper in nearly eight months. He still doesn't have the Kickstarted Bones, and now appears to be facing the prospect of a 2014 that looks a lot like 2013. If things keep going this way, pretty soon there won't BE any more FLGSes. Since I consider that a bad outcome, it gives me pause.
Interesting, the metal minis have caught up in the past 5 months things that have been on back order for over a year have been showing up in stores in the past few months
Dave (owner of Game Depot) told me that he has been unable to get any product, metal or otherwise. Maybe there is something he's not letting on, but his selection is half what it was six months ago (which is what prompted me to ask in the first place).
Erm, that's pretty much what KS is... a way to get funding directly without involving banks and other investment operations.Not that it matters, but...erm, no. Disintermediation refers specifically to the channel between producers and consumers, rather than capitalists and producers.
Yes... by getting the money directly from the consumer (backer/pledger) instead of through a bank. Despite what some people keep claiming, a Kickstarter still isn't a pre-order.
Yes... by getting the money directly from the consumer (backer/pledger) instead of through a bank. Despite what some people keep claiming, a Kickstarter still isn't a pre-order.
I don't understand what where the disagreement lies.
I heard the owner of my FLGS observe that the Bones Kickstarter had essentially eliminated him from the Reaper distribution channel. The process whereby a disruptive technology eliminates intermediaries (such as retailers) from the distribution channel is known as disintermediation. I'm concerned that a second Reaper Bones kickstarter will further negatively impact my FLGS, which is of concern to me.
Raising capital -- which is explicitly the point of Kickstarter -- does not have anything to do with disintermediation.
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I heard the owner of my FLGS observe that the Bones Kickstarter had essentially eliminated him from the Reaper distribution channel.
I've heard similar complaints - with paint as well as minis. But I think that is a case of limited space / employees (we can either ship the kickstarter, or sell regular product to distribution) instead of a deliberate strategy.
I expect we will see the bones flood out through the distribution channels shortly (as soon as the undertaker shipments are finished).
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yes, paint was an issue, because the supplier of the dropper bottles ran out and had them back ordered for 3 months. (this was documented many places, and was part of why you could choose to not have paint come with the 'early shipment').
(as the employee that does some of the ordering for the store I work part time at) But things like the winter mouselings that I ordered two years ago, and were back ordered since then came in 3 months ago, parts of the nativity sets that were back ordered for over a year came in 6 months ago, personally, I have had 8 items that have been on backorder for at least a year come in between April and July, another 15-20 backordered items came in for other special orders. I have not had issues reordering metal minis at all. Most of the times I'm told that something isn't available by my distributor, its them not being able to find it in the computer system and shooting me lies.
Basicly if it is on paizo's site as available, then Alliance Game Distributors has it in stock to ship to stores somewhere. The rep you get on the phone (at least the one I have) only checks your local distribution center by default, so if you live on the east coast, and the california distribution center has 200 of them, he'll tell me they are out of stock
I've heard similar complaints - with paint as well as minis. But I think that is a case of limited space / employees (we can either ship the kickstarter, or sell regular product to distribution) instead of a deliberate strategy.
I expect we will see the bones flood out through the distribution channels shortly (as soon as the undertaker shipments are finished).
That would be nice. :)
Pure speculation:
With the first injection mould machine ("Thomas") they will use it to master the technique and train people in using it. Then some of the income from both the first and the second Kickstarter will be used to expand their line of injection mould machines until the point where they can keep up with the demand themselves. Their plan has always been to move the entire production inhouse. Maybe the success of not only the Kickstarter, but the Bones line in general has surprised them and they have to buy more machines to keep up with the demand.
I see them doing major production releases abroad for now, and moving second runs and restocks in house, along with the their normal load of new model releases (the couple a year they were planning pre kickstarter).
Pure speculation:
With the first injection mould machine ("Thomas") they will use it to master the technique and train people in using it. Then some of the income from both the first and the second Kickstarter will be used to expand their line of injection mould machines until the point where they can keep up with the demand themselves. Their plan has always been to move the entire production inhouse. Maybe the success of not only the Kickstarter, but the Bones line in general has surprised them and they have to buy more machines to keep up with the demand.I see them doing major production releases abroad for now, and moving second runs and restocks in house, along with the their normal load of new model releases (the couple a year they were planning pre kickstarter).
Also a possibility, although they have been fairly vocal about moving production stateside. Now, if that is ALL production or just anything after initial runs... dunno. But it has been a major marketing ploy, so I would think they actually meant to move it all to Texas. They might have been taken back by the success of the Bones line, though (not just the KS, but in general).
Think of our planning like sticky notes on a wallboard. A particular minis group might bet pushed sooner or later in the project, to suit demand and intrigue. But we had everything written out, and for the most part, the art, ready in advance - if changes needed to be made, we'd just retype the text and make a new graphic. [<- in response to discussion about the first KS]
I think you will see many similarities in terms of style, because a great deal of what we did worked well, and a few new things, because a few things we did had not worked so well.
"Good morning Mister ReaperBryan,
Since you are willing to tease/torture us with hints like these, any idea when it will start?
Cheers!"I have the first planning meeting (wherein we will settle on the models for the initial offering and stretch goals, and theme, level names, and art style) on my calendar. I know I then have a few days to make art for approval so we can begin the project approval process. I'd anticipate several weeks, but refuse to pin down a date, in case something happens to alter the intended schedule.
I had typed in a bunch of stuff, then realized I'm not really authorized to discuss specifics - and truth be told, all I can tell you is my opinion at this point, since our first planning meeting wherein we cover that stuff hasn't happened.
But assuming all the decisions were entirely mine with no feedback from the rest of Reaper, and being aware that this is 100% speculation and MY PERSONAL (not professional) OPINION:
Suffice to say I'd make a few changes to graphical presentation, like changing the color of backgrounds on Bonus (Vampire add-on) minis and a different color for Optional minis for which you must pledge More. One Green one Blue, for instance. I'd want to avoid red, that tends to be a "warning" color, and it would confuse our red/green colorblind backers.
I'd adjust the math to reflect some of our more painful lessons. This would mean that if you lined the 2 campaigns up side by side they would not be mirrors of each other. Further, I'd go for a much wider selection of critters than of persons. Right now, DHBones has 60-70 Persons* and 126-136 Monsters* - which is about 1:3 PC:Monster ratio and isn't too bad, really. I think the gnoll-size monsters and up worked better than the people sized monsters, at that, so I'd focus on monsters that RPGs would classify as Large or larger. Ratio wise I'd go for maybe 1:4 or 1:5, because there's still a few important PC style niches to fill - a few more vikings, more barbarians, more variation in nonhumans, and then some monk/ninja/samurai.
I'd also take more cat-naps throughout the campaign, and work fewer weekends if I could.
*depending on how you classify them. For instance, I didn't count any of the Dark Elves as Persons, and among the Necromancers I counted only Terezinya and Ghoul Queen, thinking the others to not really be "PC" styled. It's subjective though, so count them however you think makes sense to you.
This post stirred up quite a few responses:
I went by the reaper store in Denton last week and they said the kickstarter would be sometime in September.
Since the Bones from the kickstarter are now being sent to retailers, Reaper cannot undercut those prices by offering Bones One products at discounted prices through the second kickstarter.
In speaking with Reaper Bryan recently, my understanding is that there would be no repeated minis being offered between the two kickstarters. So it's best to squash the rumour pretty quickly.
Other things that ReaperBryan did tell me was that it was still early in the planning stages for laying out what will be included on offer in the Bones 2 KS.
While the overall layout would follow similar groundwork that was laid out for the first one, there would be some differences. While we didn't discuss a timeline for the start of the new KS, a September start seems a bit ambitious to me and something I find doubtful considering the planning and work that still has to be done followed by Kickstarters own approval process.Having said that I do know that there are some at ReaperLand that want to strike while the iron is hot, as it were.
I know that some Warlord mini's have already been chosen to be included in the upcoming KS, but I don't know which ones those might be. I know that the next kickstarter will be more fantasy centric, as in general, with a few exceptions, the chronoscopes minis from the first KS weren't as welcomed by backers as Reaper had expected. That is not to say that there won't be any making an appearance though.
Expect to see more levels featuring sets focusing on the works of individual sculptors. If possible Reaper would like to have those made up of all new sculpts created specifically for Bones, but again still too early in the planning stage to confirm that will happen.
CAV is currently not planned for inclusion in this KS, as it is felt it is better suited to having its own, smaller KS.
That's all that comes to mind at the moment. As always, much can change, but this is the info I was made privy to during my time helping out at the Reaperbooth at PAX.
For what it's worth I spoke to several authoritative sources at Gen Con and the time frame told to me was "late September or early October". I was also told that they want to try some sculpts that aren't practical (or even possible) to do in metal; stuff like big, curly bat/dragon/demon wings.
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This post stirred up quite a few responses:
I went by the reaper store in Denton last week and they said the kickstarter would be sometime in September....Since the Bones from the kickstarter are now being sent to retailers, Reaper cannot undercut those prices by offering Bones One products at discounted prices through the second kickstarter.
In speaking with Reaper Bryan recently, my understanding is that there would be no repeated minis being offered between the two kickstarters. So it's best to squash the rumour pretty quickly.
Other things that ReaperBryan did tell me was that it was still early in the planning stages for laying out what will be included on offer in the Bones 2 KS.
While the overall layout would follow similar groundwork that was laid out for the first one, there would be some differences. While we didn't discuss a timeline for the start of the new KS, a September start seems a bit ambitious to me and something I find doubtful considering the planning and work that still has to be done followed by Kickstarters own approval process.Having said that I do know that there are some at ReaperLand that want to strike while the iron is hot, as it were.
I know that some Warlord mini's have already been chosen to be included in the upcoming KS, but I don't know which ones those might be. I know that the next kickstarter will be more fantasy centric, as in general, with a few exceptions, the chronoscopes minis from the first KS weren't as welcomed by backers as Reaper had expected. That is not to say that there won't be any making an appearance though.
Expect to see more levels featuring sets focusing on the works of individual sculptors. If possible Reaper would like to have those made up of all new sculpts created specifically for Bones, but again still too early in the planning stage to confirm that will happen.
CAV is currently not planned for inclusion in this KS, as it is felt it is better suited to having its own, smaller KS.
That's all
Glad to hear there will be fewer chronoscope and other modern or sci fi minis in this one! For me, those were all just wasted minis that were either sold, traded or trown away. Focusing on the fantasy element as much as possible is definitely the way to go, says I.
yeah. Please let's this.You have to wait at least until they've shipped out the kickstarter 1 "SOD" orders. Our Brit friends should appreciate that term.