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I also want to underscore the tragedy of the fall of Kenabres a bit more. I love the intro to Rise of the Runelords because you get a feel of some of the personality of the town before all hell breaks loose, and I'd like to have a little of that here. Maybe Hulrun can lead the day's ceremonies, so that it's all the more shocking when he shows up again later. Some visuals of the majesty and power of Kenabres' crusaders.
The only bits that disappoint me in the adventure are the two huge expositions – one, unfortunately, to start it off and one to end - and the underwhelming final battle. I’m certain these can be resolved by some creative DM’ing.
Into speech PC’s get perception/sense motive checks to notice some people moving amongst the crowd. Sense motive gives a hunch something is wrong. PC’s react. Suddenly shouting breaks out as cultists moving among the crowd disrupt the ceremony – small combat, opportunity to save townsfolk, see NPC’s in action. 3-4 rounds in the kite explodes as described. A few more cultists stream into the street and panic sets in. PC’s have a few more rounds to fight and direct townfolk to safety (affect Anevia, Aravashnial attitude, see Horgus in self serving/saving action as he tries to bully people out of his way) (diplomacy or intimidate checks).
Pacing each round with a slowly evolving horror of demonic invasion – a paladin torn from his horse by a flying demon in the distance, a terrible otherworldy howl. The ground shakes and demons appear at the end of the road (far enough for players to take 2-3 rounds to reach (CR1 demons, no need to fight just feel a fight is frighteningly imminent)
Then the eruption of Terendelev and the shadow of the balor as the dragon rises to attack. Both plummet to the ground smashing the cathedral and a nearby building showering the area in rubble, perhaps smashing an enemy or a demonic foe (reflex save to avoid small amount of damage form wreckage or being knocked off feet – which mysteriously misses the players anyway, destiny?). Lighting arching form the balor vaporizes demon and man alike , the heat inflicting a small bit of damage to players with a save. The Balors whip slashes through the area, vaporizing a demon and narrowly missing a PC. While the two fight more panic sets in and more demons pour into the street. Encouraged by NPC’s (could help develop a relationship with Anevin or Aravashnal) if need be the players help to guide citizens from the devastation and the demons, especially the Balor. Just as the PC’s feel outmaneuvered the titanic demon appears and the rift opens beneath them (token reflex save) – play rest out as written emphasizing the dragons sacrifice as they plummet to apparent death. I will try and play it round by round . rather than exposition. Need to flesh it out more.
Makes initial areas harder since already used up a lot of resources, so I need to think around that (maybe a corpse or two falls with them perhaps with potions to help?)
First, I have a thread elsewhere in which I talk about the need to use a side-adventure ahead of time to fill out the adventure.
That said, start with the Kite exploding. This creates a massive sense of panic. Also... I'm not sure having actual combat at the start works. Sure, have conflict like rifts starting to open and the PCs working to pull people from them... buildings collapsing just before a player so they're trapped in that one area... but actually fighting cultists risks a player dying from a "lucky" shot.
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I've gotten through the opening scene. I wanted to give the players more ability to do things, but with the slowness of play by post, I figured it was better to move things along.
I like the first move being the Kite exploding...it's just so cinematic. I think it went all right - though I wish I'd had another hour to polish the final big intro post more. It helps when your players are willing to give you leeway and trust you're railroading a little bit in a good cause.
Overall, my players seemed to have a generally positive reaction.
I hope to start a live game in October, and I want to work on some more actions they can take to feel heroic and yet overwhelmed for that game.
I noticed that Aravashnial doesn't have a spellbook in his stat block. I assume it was lost in the chaos, and it's irrelevant since he can't read at the moment, but it would be nice to know if that's the intention.
Creative Director
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I noticed that Aravashnial doesn't have a spellbook in his stat block. I assume it was lost in the chaos, and it's irrelevant since he can't read at the moment, but it would be nice to know if that's the intention.
That is indeed the intention. He couldn't read it anyway since he's blind now...
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There was one old Ifrit Sergent, hes helped more green officers live then have died serving with him.
With him were two Lizardmen Kings. Both decided one day that slavery was wrong and killed their tribes shaman as she was about to start slaughtering 200 slaves that were bound hand and food.. Crazy story.. will have to tell you about it some day.
The three of them, made it down the paths and into the shrine, i changed it to be one of Iomedae's. I changed it as by random choice of the heroes all follow her, they decided to follow her in mass when i pitched the campaign.. .. Regardless they were large, but they had reach.. so combat was a bit tough till they decided to smash/push aside the wooden benches that filled a chapel that was smaller then their full movement range.
Sarg took charge and had them form a line on either side of him in some of the battles. After the battle they were all wounded, but asked if the potions would work on either of the two wounded. I gave the elf a couple more levels... he had a wand of cure light, with 11 charges. they used the whole wand, but it didn't effect the blindness/broken leg.
"why cant a potion of a full Healing work on either Any of the three people that we found ?"
"that belor.. the stormking, he deals mythic damage, it doesnt heal the same as normal damage."
"Mythic Damage?"
"yup"
"hummm" I see the gears turning in their heads..
i smile and laugh quietly.. but we all end up cracking up.
Priceless memory - Thanks :D
I was wondering about that as well; seems he'd be fairly useless the longer he goes. ^^;; Though I did wonder if someone could read a spellbook to him to help him memorize some new spells. (Too bad he doesn't have a familiar whose eyes he could look through...)
Given 20 days, and 1,200 gold, Aravashnial could learn braille, assuming something like that exists on Golarion. Alternatively, he could pick it up for free the next time he gains a level.
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Creative Director
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I was wondering about that as well; seems he'd be fairly useless the longer he goes. ^^;; Though I did wonder if someone could read a spellbook to him to help him memorize some new spells. (Too bad he doesn't have a familiar whose eyes he could look through...)
Which is fine. He's not really there to provide a lot of support for the party. All 3 of those NPCs are there to give the PCs an extra challenge; they need to get them all out alive if they can. Whatever help the NPCs can add to the situation is bonus.
Having run it up until the point where they're nearly out of Part I, I can tell you that Aravashnial's wand and what few spells he has prepared are more than enough assistance to get the PCs through all of this.
If they can convince him to help, that is.
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Oh, I know. I just figure it would be nice for him to be able to feel productive... and magic is a part of who he is. Being blinded and being unable to see his magic... that must be like having another part of himself ripped away. I emote for my NPCs, darn it! ^^;;
Though he DOES have his bonded item so he can still use one bit of magic each day. :)
"A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared."
The wording suggests that it requires a spellbook. He lacks a spellbook to draw spells from - but couldn't they just give him Millorn's? Obviously, his options would be extremely limited but any port in a storm.
He's missing a spellbook but could in theory write his spells still in memory into a new spellbook. He can't use anyone else's spellbook because he'd need to use Read Magic to learn those spells and I suspect that requires sight on the caster's part. If he finds his old spellbook (which may very well be in his house; it's not mentioned but I doubt he sleeps at the library) then he's got all those spells available.
Nothing there says that he needs to have his spellbook with him. Unless there is a statement somewhere that it was destroyed, it could well be lying under his bed at Blackwing and he can use the bonded item.
Well, if we're getting stingy with the rules, I'd just say that if Aravashnial's spellbook IS back up in Blackwing, he certainly does not have Line of Effect to it down in the tunnels. It would, however, be a very good extra "hook" for him to beg the PCs to take him to Blackwing before seeing to any of the other NPC's requests.
Honestly, I think the intent wasn't to give them full access to a L5 wizard for the first two sections of the book. If you're just looking for a way to keep Aravashnial from going insane because an integral part of his being has been denied to him - that's all fine and good (but I'm fairly certain his statblock lists him as being mildly arrogant and significantly underestimating the longterm effects on his spellcasting). But from a balance viewpoint, the single set of spells he's capable of casting is perfectly fine. I'm running it with players using a 15-point buy and no special perks, and they're BREEZING through the tunnels.
Have you been rolling for random encounters? And have they been "breezing" through the diplomatic/roleplaying aspects of these encounters as well? ;)
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Where does it say anywhere that you now need line of effect to your spellbook? People seem to be inventing new caveats for the use of the bonded object out of nowhere now.
Have you been rolling for random encounters? And have they been "breezing" through the diplomatic/roleplaying aspects of these encounters as well? ;)
The random encounter chart was accidentally got left out of the book and I didn't find the suggested alternative by James Jacobs until after they were nearly home free, so I'm going to have to make them bump into a few more demons than they otherwise would've on the surface.
As for the roleplaying aspects, they're doing well. Taking it more seriously than they have in the past, and making good progress. It's good advice to stress to your players ahead of time that there'll be quite a few opportunities throughout the campaign for pure-RP encounters. Got to get them in the mood ahead of time.
As for the spellbook - the rules don't explicitly state you fall prone when you go unconscious either. But you DO need Line of Effect to target something with an ability or magical effect, don't you? Unless it specifies otherwise (like with scrying, etc). Either way, this isn't the appropriate forum to argue the point on, so it'd be better to chalk it up to "Houserule it however you want".
Using your bonded item is not an effect which has any line-of-sight or line-of-effect requirements. Like, at all. You don't have any rules which support your point, so please stop making stuff up out of thin air to try to win it.
The weird thing is, there is a Random Encounters bit in the book for the caverns. It's in the section right where the Demon statistics are located. It's a horrible location for it as you have a second list for above-ground listed there. So it's basically poor design. ^^;;
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on RPing right after the fall with the NPCs. I'm concerened that my players will mostly ignore the NPCs (thus missing about 1/2 the xp in part 1) or will only really interact with them if I spell out "YOU MUST TALK TO THEM TO GET XP!!!" and that might make them feel a little railroaded. Any thougths on a more organic way to really introduce the NPCs?
when i was GM the serpent skull, it seems very similiar opening.
PC was dropped sudden catastrophe, there are stanger among PCs.Worst of it, the NPC may not coperate PCs.
If the NPCs prove their worth to PCs, they should ignored.
So I'm gonna skip diplomacy about ther attitude(friendly, unfriendly so on). it will be better, they are from the start friendly. and react properly that.
At least, they are more charming and have a good backgound to appeal PCs.
They have more interest points to interact each other. You can give more XP to that. (not giving raise them to friendly)
My point is, NPCs should helpful to PCs at their best.
Why? NPCs are people. Not all people are helpful, especially during disasters.
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Why? NPCs are people. Not all people are helpful, especially during disasters.
Some players are inpatient with NPCs to the point of cataloging them into two categories - "people we can use", or "obstacles". Thank all the gods that my players have different attitudes altogether, but for groups with players less interested in role playing, it COULD be wise to downplay the "watching out for NPCs might turn into an obstacle" thing...
Why? NPCs are people. Not all people are helpful, especially during disasters.Some players are impatient with NPCs to the point of cataloging them into two categories - "people we can use", or "obstacles". Thank all the gods that my players have different attitudes altogether, but for groups with players less interested in role playing, it COULD be wise to downplay the "watching out for NPCs might turn into an obstacle" thing...
And for those players, this is probably not the AP they are going to enjoy anyway...
As for helpfulness...
I think that's under "good things come to those who wait." =^-^= Well, that and diplomacy has its own rewards.
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And for those players, this is probably not the AP they are going to enjoy anyway...Why? NPCs are people. Not all people are helpful, especially during disasters.Some players are impatient with NPCs to the point of cataloging them into two categories - "people we can use", or "obstacles". Thank all the gods that my players have different attitudes altogether, but for groups with players less interested in role playing, it COULD be wise to downplay the "watching out for NPCs might turn into an obstacle" thing...
Oh, I agree... and honestly other than maybe Kingmaker and Shattered Star, I don't see which APs those player will enjoy... most of them require some emotional investment in NPCs. Still, though, doesn't mean this kind of group won't play the AP, and I got the impression from Wintercome that his players are like that... giving the best advice I have, right?
Oh, I agree... and honestly other than maybe Kingmaker and Shattered Star, I don't see which APs those player will enjoy... most of them require some emotional investment in NPCs. Still, though, doesn't mean this kind of group won't play the AP, and I got the impression from Wintercome that his players are like that... giving the best advice I have, right?And for those players, this is probably not the AP they are going to enjoy anyway...Why? NPCs are people. Not all people are helpful, especially during disasters.Some players are impatient with NPCs to the point of cataloging them into two categories - "people we can use", or "obstacles". Thank all the gods that my players have different attitudes altogether, but for groups with players less interested in role playing, it COULD be wise to downplay the "watching out for NPCs might turn into an obstacle" thing...
Some of my players, I think will get the idea )after a few well dropped hints). I do have 1 player that has a habit of immediately attacking anything that moves unless it is a) a shop keeper, b) an obvious exposition device or c) immediately throws down it's weapons and begs the PC to not kill it be for it can help them (slight exageration).
He even bristles at the "I'm a gruff NPC that can be a pain, but if you're nice to me it'll be worth your while" NPCs| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This kind of player would last about one day on my gaming group before I threw him out on his ass. :-/
Believe me the thought has occurred to me, but he also shows up on time, (almost) every week, ready to play. Surprisingly not that easy to come by.
Oh, I agree... and honestly other than maybe Kingmaker and Shattered Star, I don't see which APs those player will enjoy... most of them require some emotional investment in NPCs. Still, though, doesn't mean this kind of group won't play the AP, and I got the impression from Wintercome that his players are like that... giving the best advice I have, right?And for those players, this is probably not the AP they are going to enjoy anyway...Why? NPCs are people. Not all people are helpful, especially during disasters.Some players are impatient with NPCs to the point of cataloging them into two categories - "people we can use", or "obstacles". Thank all the gods that my players have different attitudes altogether, but for groups with players less interested in role playing, it COULD be wise to downplay the "watching out for NPCs might turn into an obstacle" thing...
Oh~ I feel guilty to my players. My players are not the people who less interested role playing.
Maybe it's because previous Serpent skull's terrible memory. From start, PCs and 5 other castaway should survive carnival island. But 5 other NPCs are... like whining child saying 'care for me. care for me~'.
In rules more serious. they should will save every morning or run away just to carnival's hand! PC care for them, but they don't like this and NPCs.
What I want to say is... Dont make NPCs obstacle and XP machine.
They can ask help at first. Broken-leg rogue and blind wizard need help.
"Hey~ Guys, I think my leg is broken. can you help me to remove this rock from my leg?"
Even though PCs make them "hostile", if there is no immediate threat of life from PCs, it will be good to give their aids to party.
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Oh, I agree... and honestly other than maybe Kingmaker and Shattered Star, I don't see which APs those player will enjoy... most of them require some emotional investment in NPCs. Still, though, doesn't mean this kind of group won't play the AP, and I got the impression from Wintercome that his players are like that... giving the best advice I have, right?And for those players, this is probably not the AP they are going to enjoy anyway...Why? NPCs are people. Not all people are helpful, especially during disasters.Some players are impatient with NPCs to the point of cataloging them into two categories - "people we can use", or "obstacles". Thank all the gods that my players have different attitudes altogether, but for groups with players less interested in role playing, it COULD be wise to downplay the "watching out for NPCs might turn into an obstacle" thing...Oh~ I feel guilty to my players. My players are not the people who less interested role playing.
Maybe it's because previous Serpent skull's terrible memory. From start, PCs and 5 other castaway should survive carnival island. But 5 other NPCs are... like whining child saying 'care for me. care for me~'.
In rules more serious. they should will save every morning or run away just to carnival's hand! PC care for them, but they don't like this and NPCs.What I want to say is... Dont make NPCs obstacle and XP machine.
They can ask help at first. Broken-leg rogue and blind wizard need help.
"Hey~ Guys, I think my leg is broken. can you help me to remove this rock from my leg?"Even though PCs make them "hostile", if there is no immediate threat of life from PCs, it will be good to give their aids to party.
Well, if your players are scarred from the way things turned out last time there was a group of NPCs tagging along, it's best to talk with the players about the issue before the adventure starts. Tell them that the NPCs are there as a story element, and that because you want the game to be about the players, the NPCs are only going to provide some help, sometimes, and not function as full members of the party. It's a suspension of disbelief thing, really.
Can someone confirm for me what exp track this is supposed to follow (this is the first adventure path I've subscribed to and am currently running)?
My suspicion was fast but it was really hard to tell after the first session and the difference between fast and medium for first level isn't a huge margin. The party is near the point where they should be leveling up to two according to the book and they are just over 2nd for fast track but not quite there for medium track.
Medium. Any Pathfinder AP that isn't adapted from the 3.5 rules is a Medium Advancement. (In short, only Runelords' Anniversary Edition is Fast)
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Creative Director
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Can someone confirm for me what exp track this is supposed to follow (this is the first adventure path I've subscribed to and am currently running)?
My suspicion was fast but it was really hard to tell after the first session and the difference between fast and medium for first level isn't a huge margin. The party is near the point where they should be leveling up to two according to the book and they are just over 2nd for fast track but not quite there for medium track.
Correct. Medium. That's the standard for all Adventure Paths. Nevertheless, you can always find that information on page 6 of the Adventure Path at the top of the advancement track.
Thanks! Was sure I was overlooking it somewhere, just wasn't sure where to look.
Quick suggestion for the medium sized companion issue... advise your players to take the Narrow Frame feat to avoid the squeezing issues.
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Creative Director
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I just recently acquired WotR Book 1 and had a short scan of the information for the campaign and came across something odd in the Final Battle.
** spoiler omitted **
The DR type is correct.
Why have the monsters that got mythic improved critical got crit attacks at 18+ ? All the dragons, the treant, nessian warhound ? The feat says the multiplier is increased, not the threat range!
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Creative Director
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Why have the monsters that got mythic improved critical got crit attacks at 18+ ? All the dragons, the treant, nessian warhound ? The feat says the multiplier is increased, not the threat range!
Is this question in the wrong board? There are no treants or nessian warhounds in this adventure, and the only dragon doesn't really get to use her stats...
Sorry I'm looking at the mythic book! But still it's got to be a mistake.
Does anyone know where the party picks up
page 23, treasure section
Wrath of the Righteous is the first adventure path that I really pay attention to.
Does all adventure paths lead characters from level 1 to 20?
With an adventure of this scale, which kind of reminds of the Classic D&D adventure such as Queen of the Spiders and The Bloodstone Pass,I get the feeling that the players should start at a higher level. A reviewer was right about how the beginning, the players fight oddball critters like giant vermins.
The AP's Paizo published in Dungeon Magazine did, in fact, take PC's from 1st to 20th+, but they were also year-long. The AP's Paizo has published in the Pathfinder line have a normal level range of 1st to mid-teens, with the more recent ones edging higher in that range. This will be the first AP Paizo has published since beginning the Pathfinder line with a published range of 1st to 20th+.
A reviewer was right about how the beginning, the players fight oddball critters like giant vermins.
I disagree because of the pacing.
At the start, they're first level and they aren't fighting them for long. They're mostly the warm-up matches. Also if you keep in mind the situation, even those foes can be a challenge because of the hurt NPCs they are likely escorting. I can say by third level they have fought already...
Also, as they have just entered the city stuff is about to ratchet up again pretty quickly with many more demons, cultists, tieflings, and worse!
For reference, that is from two 6 hour play sessions.