| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
What I find bizarre is you get a devotion point... ** spoiler omitted ** Personally I'd provide two Devotion points for recovering the city leader's body alone. But that's just me. ;)
Yes but remember that the devotion points are given for truly good acts(other than killing monsters). The idea of treating a person's body with kindness and respect despite their actions is a good and lawful act. As opposed to what the demons do, which is murder and defile the corpse of even their tacit allies. I like it because it gives the Players a real choice about being good vs. Good. I fully expect my players to not bury the second body, because of who he was. But this is an opportunity for both player growth, character development and a chance to surprise your DM, which in and of itself is a bid deal.
You know? That makes a lot of sense. :)
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
So far the only real problem I've noticed in the module seems to be how to motivate players to take the effort to collect devotion points. The adventure is a bit schizophrenic in that regard, on one side putting a timer on storming the Gray Garrison, by making it explicit that Areelu Vorlesh may arrive soon but on the other hand requiring time-consuming tasks from them to get those devotion points.
I am planning to make it clear that the eye of something great is on them during their exploration of the garrison (maybe making it clear that it is Iomedae) and having Irabeth comment on how those wrongs should be righted, but I have some experience with how my group deals with time pressure scenarios. And that is by going into SWAT-team modus and rushing through rooms, which is anathema to the whole devotion point scenario.
Any ideas on how to best ease the pressure aspect of the last part of the module? Just not mentioning that the wardstone could be corrupted at any minute seems like the best idea so far, but that could have other unforeseen consequences.
I completely agree, the devotion point mechanic bothered me too... which is why I was thinking of removing them from the gray garrison entirely, and instead secretly hand them out during the entire adventure. I'd explain the Iomedae took notice of the PCs when the silver dragon saved them from death, and that she has been following their deeds ever since.
So instead of forcing them to clean shrines while their allies are dying outside to buy them time to do actually important things, I would just watch how PCs behave during the entire module and award them accordingly.
For example, saving X citizens while roaming around the ruins could award devotion points, and restoring order, and helping Irabeth, and stopping demons and cultists, and making an alliance with the mongrelmen, and even cleaning the shrine... AFTER the bad guys were dealt with. Cleaning it during the fight will actually be punished, I think, because that's a dumb thing to take the time to do while the entire world is in peril. That's not true devotion, that's just not thinking things through. Given Iomedae's militant nature, I'd assume her to appreciate good soldiers who are willing to wait on cleansing her shrine in order to get the mission done.
Without strait up telling my party "You want to do this to make The gods happy" how can i sneakly point them in the direction of getting th e devotion points?
I actually agree with Lord Snow. I personally would have Iomedae's attention start if the players resanctified the underground temple... or once they left the caverns. Have half of the Devotion Points from helping out people and then the other half be from the Gray Garrison.
Well, it's certainly worth looking into. I'd love if Amber could give us some hints how she envisioned the assault on the Gray Garrison going on how the time pressure component squares with the time needed to clean up shrines and returning dead soldiers to be properly buried. I hope she is watching this thread, given that this is her first AP module.
To be honest? You can always hint at it when the players have saved the city and found themselves to be imbued with mythic abilities... mention "you notice those two helmets, relics from the first Crusade, have been defaced" and then when they see the bodies (assuming they didn't bring them back in the first assault) "you see the bodies of Lord Hulrun and one of the city's lords just lying there, desecrated" and the like. If you have let the party know early on that roleplaying the religious or spiritual aspects of their characters will benefit them (as in before the game started), then they may very well pick up on the cues.
If not? Their loss. Do they really need an extra +2 to a stat, after all? Well, if you did a 15-point build, maybe. ;)
Creative Director
|
What I find bizarre is you get a devotion point... ** spoiler omitted ** Personally I'd provide two Devotion points for recovering the city leader's body alone. But that's just me. ;)
That's a subtle indication of the power of redemption and forgiveness. Redemption is a big theme of the AP, and even though...
Oops, Posted this to the wrong thread.
I know I'm going to out myself as a noob with this question but since I can't find the answer on any other searches I've done I thought I'd give this a try. What exactly is the conjurer class, what rule book is it in, and, for fellow hero lab users out there, how do I get it in hero lab?
Oops, Posted this to the wrong thread.
I know I'm going to out myself as a noob with this question but since I can't find the answer on any other searches I've done I thought I'd give this a try. What exactly is the conjurer class, what rule book is it in, and, for fellow hero lab users out there, how do I get it in hero lab?
Conjurers are specialist wizards, core rule book and try to ask the last question on the "Compatible Products from Other Publishers" board.
Conjurers are specialist wizards, core rule book and try to ask the last question on the "Compatible Products from Other Publishers" board.Oops, Posted this to the wrong thread.
I know I'm going to out myself as a noob with this question but since I can't find the answer on any other searches I've done I thought I'd give this a try. What exactly is the conjurer class, what rule book is it in, and, for fellow hero lab users out there, how do I get it in hero lab?
The reason I asked here is that one of the NPCs in this adventure path is a conjurer and I'm trying to make sure I understood how he works. The hero lab thing is just that I'm trying to make my own stat block for him for ease of reference.
But I think I get it now. So the guy listed as Conjurer 5/Riftwarden 1, is a wizard who chose Conjuration as his specialty school (and has one level in the Riftwarden prestige class of course) and that's all that means. Correct?
Correct.
Correct.
Thanks for the clarification. I feel less dumb now (just a bit).
One way to get your players to earn devotion points
I also like the idea of giving the players time to clean up after the last fight.
Maybe that would be the way to go, yes. But then again, it is after the big climactic fight, so it would feel a bit out of place, too. <sigh> No good solutions in sight for leaving the whole devotion points issue confined to the Gray Garrison.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One way to get your players to earn devotion points
** spoiler omitted **
I also like the idea of giving the players time to clean up after the last fight.
The problem with this idea is that smart players would just go, "clean up the shrine? are you crazy?! your own soldiers are dying by the dozen outside to buy us time to get to the wardstone fragment so that we can save the friggin' world, and you are telling us to CLEAN A SHRINE?!"
I'd go with the butterfly effect here: what seems small and insignificient in the beginning will evolve in a ground shaking event; founding your actions on faith might mean a lot to some PCs and inspire others to follow suit (and I can imagine that >90% of the groups will have a pally and/or cleric of a good deity in their midst).
Concerning time (still needs some polishing):
To kill two birds with one stone you might actually start the big battle somewhere less central, having it move towards the PCs who then can help NPCs fleeing, taking shelter, what-not as they move with the mob away from the advancing demonic host, helping in the rescuing and then have Terendelev appear, telling them to leave before taking off, meeting the Stormking and getting killed and having her cast feather fall on the group of PCs and NPCs.
Engineer the scene to impress on the PCs the main assault is over to make the PCs feel that taking 8 hours off is not such a bad thing.
Alternatetively, you might have them need to rest and nudge your divine PC(s) to consecrate the shrine over night (-1 on all dice rolls for the next day).
Ruyan.
|
"The river itself extends to the north and south, but the ceiling dips down below the water level in both directions--the chamber that lie beyond in either direction are beyond the scope of this adventure."
I think they may take this time to rest and regain their spells while the lizardman explores. My question is, am i free to do whatever here.. OR is there something specific either direction that will come clear in another part of the tale?
We leave Kenabres behind after this module. So feel free to put there anything which fits (you have the Kenabres gazeteer in the back of the module, after all).
I'd say to tell Paladin, Cleric, and other religious/spiritual-oriented characters at the very start of the campaign "your character's religiousness will have an impact on the game in direct terms. So if you see an opportunity to roleplay your character's religiousness or spirituality, take the time to do so!
The time limit is very soft (not that the players know that).
I really like the NPC charts inside the covers. Thanks for adding those.
We're slowly putting together our table and the question of classes obviously came up. I don't like to limit class selection too much, but
since I have a few new players I'm going to keep it to Core and Base classes (unless they can convince me otherwise). Now, the problem I'm having is with Cavaliers.
How can I let Cavaliers in the first book? Explaining the intro would be a bit of a pita with a mount. Roaming around on a mount throughout most of the book would be pretty difficult for the player. All in all, it looks like it's a very difficult class to play and manage in this book.
I hate to say no to Cavalier fans, but I'm not really sure how to fit them in.
The cavalier's horse is either killed or runs off in fear from the initial conflict. If you're generous, the cavalier finds his or her horse after the campaign is done. Otherwise, he or she has to buy a new mount.
Unless it's a halfling cavalier; riding dog for the win! =^-^=
Killing off the mount seems the most likely of options. A small cav/mount is an idea, but they would still lose some iconic traits due to a lot of terrain restrictions for most of the book(if not all of it).
Either option seems to suck a lot of fun out of a character concept, right out of gate.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
From what I understand, the second book of the AP (and some of the others) include a lot more options for mounted combat. So it's a matter of not being fantastic at the start... but glowing as the story continues.
@Grayn one of my characters has an animal companion (she's a druid) and left her back at a grove outside the city when the Storm King begins the attack. I'm planning on having an offshoot of the chasm that opened up reach all the way to the outskirts of the grove and through wandering and the mental link between the two they will be reunited.
Something similar could be involved with a mount. It runs off in fear, an offshoot was found and it wanders around sniffing the air for its master. Eventually to be reunited maybe at the underground temple.
|
Creative Director
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Killing off the mount seems the most likely of options. A small cav/mount is an idea, but they would still lose some iconic traits due to a lot of terrain restrictions for most of the book(if not all of it).
Either option seems to suck a lot of fun out of a character concept, right out of gate.
Don't forget that we put important info in the Foreword! Page 5 talks a bit about how to handle things like animal companions and mounts. The suggestion there is...
Might want to leave the Huge or larger mounts behind though...
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So I made up a quick 5th scale for anyone with 5 players. I tried to fit it with the other scales, 2nd level spell, usable 3/day and thematic with a silver dragon.
Don't forget that we put important info in the Foreword! Page 5 talks a bit about how to handle things like animal companions and mounts. The suggestion there is... ** spoiler omitted **
Gah! The foreword! Ironically, that's always the last section I read! ;P
Still doesn't fix the problem that a cavalier will be without characteristic traits for most the book and...
and a horse (or maybe camel?) squeezing through hallways? ugh...
But, I do think the visual of the Banner Bearer is very cool. Torn banner, waiving bravely in the face of demon hordes...man, I wish I was a player in this. :)
As was suggested earlier, the Cavalier's horse flees (or wasn't even in that part of town! You're talking a lot of people in the area, they might not let horses for non-important (ie, PCs) people in the square!) and finds the Cavalier when he or she leaves the caves.
Jess, have the flying PC hit by a rock from the collapsing Cathedral and stunned. Thus Terendelev saves that PC as well - the timing was just that fortuitous. :)
I'll join in for 5th scale ideas mine was:
Shield: Three times per day as a standard action this scale can be used to cast shield.
I figured with energy resistance, a weapon spell, a movement spell, and a disguise spell they could really make do with a protective spell.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As was suggested earlier, the Cavalier's horse flees (or wasn't even in that part of town! You're talking a lot of people in the area, they might not let horses for non-important (ie, PCs) people in the square!) and finds the Cavalier when he or she leaves the caves.
Jess, have the flying PC hit by a rock from the collapsing Cathedral and stunned. Thus Terendelev saves that PC as well - the timing was just that fortuitous. :)
Yup, actually, I was thinking of having Aravashnial tossed into him when Aravashnial is blinded - that would allow the player and Aravashnial to both sort of save each other!
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I"m doing that now, and I ran Kingmaker for 7 players.
I opted for more enemies over stronger enemies. I also tended to prefer some simple modifications like all monsters had max hit points rather than more hit dice. This allowed the fights to last longer without the enemies having abilities the PCs couldn't handle for one reason or another.
One thing to be really careful of, is single bad guys. Given the even greater action economy advantage your players have over such than a normal 4 person party does, give him lieutenants and/or bodyguards when you can.
Adjust for your players' skill as necessary.
Good luck!
|
I'm thinking of running this AP for 6 players as opposed to 4. Any recommendations for adjustment?
I run RotRL:AE for 6 players and I usually increase minions by 50% for most fights and named baddies get 1-2 additional class levels. Also, I don't use XP, I have the PCs level when appropriate and I generally keep them about 1 level behind the advancement track. Lastly, I don't really adjust treasure values so they collectively have the wealth of a 4-man party.
I don't know how all that would interact with Mythic rules because that's new territory.
-Skeld
I'd recommend full hit points for all monsters. Depending on the average stats of your characters (as the AP usually expects a 15-point build) you might also toss in a couple Advanced Templates or a class level here or there. But to start, just go with full hit points and see how your players handle encounters. (Don't forget to keep track of player position via the maps. Underground and in buildings, things get tight quick with six players.)
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm thinking of running this AP for 6 players as opposed to 4. Any recommendations for adjustment?
Adjust the encounters for the New Average Party Level (which I think is either +1 or +2, the calculations should be in the game Mastery Guide or the Core Rulebook). That generally means adding more monsters, like giving Single monsters some minions. It also helps keep EXP up.
Now, all said, that's the easy solution. The solution I prefer is that instead of relying on monster tactics entries Play each enemy encounter Intelligently, have Monsters Bull rush PCs off of buildings, have them retreat and grab help, have them set makeshift traps and alarms, have boss encounters react to commonly used player tactics due to actually spying on players. Adjust terrain and movement so that the enemy can gain an advantage over players. A flying monster may lair in a den where the floor is covered with the skeletal remains of previous victims (thus making it difficult terrain with the corresponding penalties for your PCs).
this approach adds realism, and makes Players kick up their own tactics and pay more attention to the terrain themselves. Which is better than the numerical arms race that simply adding more enemies and increasing their numerical stats causes between players and GMs.
We're slowly putting together our table and the question of classes obviously came up. I don't like to limit class selection too much, but
since I have a few new players I'm going to keep it to Core and Base classes (unless they can convince me otherwise). Now, the problem I'm having is with Cavaliers.How can I let Cavaliers in the first book? Explaining the intro would be a bit of a pita with a mount. Roaming around on a mount throughout most of the book would be pretty difficult for the player. All in all, it looks like it's a very difficult class to play and manage in this book.
I hate to say no to Cavalier fans, but I'm not really sure how to fit them in.
Also, if it's true that mass combat comes into play later in the AP, that Cavalier will have its moments to shine...
It's a bit of a stretch for the cavalier's horse to flee if he is in the middle of riding it when the attack happens. After all, they are trying to look their best, would that not include having your mount geared up in the best barding you can afford?
In that case the only option that seems viable to me is feather fall on the mount. While it would seem strange for her to use it on a horse that is seperated from the PC, if the PC is in the middle of riding it she would basically be condemning it to death if she did not.
I cannot see the Cavalier on top of his horse during this event. It's a holy day of sorts and the area is full of people. Even if the Cavalier took "Rich Parents" for a Trait and has a noble background, it's still iffy.
Just keep the horse in the stable and have the Cavalier reunited with it when you leave the caves. Seriously, there are areas that are hard to navigate down there and you want to bring a horse along?!? It'll break a leg! Or get stuck!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yay! It arrived today!
Yeah, I agree. Cavalier on the mount during the intro is probably out (unless you had the cav in a procession or something?). This isn't a game killer or anything for a cavalier, just kinda sucky for a mount dependent PC.
If a player is determined to be a Cavalier (and doesn't want to go banner bearer), then it sounds like letting him/her know that it's going to be tough in the beginning and hopefully better in the future is probably the best way to go.
Or going with a Gnome or Halfling Cavalier on a Warhound! :D
"Ambrosius! We're going the wrong way!"
If anything the suggestion for the squeezing through 5 ft hallways would let the horse at least trail behind, though it wouldn't really be able to engage in combat til they reach the surface.
That or the it runs away and meets up when you get to part three.
Maybe it could be killing weaker things on the surface to explain the sudden jump in levels for the mount.